avsm changed the topic of #mirage to: mirage 2 released! party on!
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<mort___> quick mirage-dev question — trying to setup a new switch with mirage-dev remote, but when i `opam install mirage` i get a complaint that topkg can't be built
<mort___> ### stdout ###
<mort___> # Unknown directive `require'.
<mort___> ### stderr ###
<mort___> # Cannot find file topfind.
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<mort___> hm. ocmalfind wasn't installed for some reason
<mort___> weird. and now it's being install by default and i'm not seeing this problem
<mort___> bah humbug
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<mort___> hannes: out of curiosity, is there a reason `mirage build` has started using `-classic-display` by default?
<Drup> because it's much saner than ocamlbuild's default term escape sequence magic :p
<mort___> simpler i'll buy; saner?
<mort___> in any case, there doesn't seem to be a way to override of it for those of us with more modern terminals, which is a shame…
<Drup> it doesn't bug, it actually shows you the build log without needing to dug it up
<mort___> oh yeah, i know that :) but in the past, providing a Makefile.user with the appropriate var set to -classic-display fixed that
<mort___> (doesn't bug?)
<Drup> on my terminal, it eats the stuff that was before the ocamlbuild invocation
<Drup> (it's ridiculously annoying)
<mort___> yowsers
<mort___> what is your terminal?!
<Drup> evilvte
<Drup> but that's the same on urxvt
<mort___> terminals got more complicated while i wasn't looking — never heard of either of those :(
<Drup> those are actually probably much simpler than the one you are using :p
<Drup> (and faster, which is why I use them ...)
<mort___> quite possibly. to be fair, i haven't consciously looked for a new terminal in about, oh, 20 years :)
<mort___> so i haven't been looking for quite a long time...
<reynir> is urxvt the unicode version of rxvt or something? I remember there being one where you add u- to get unicode
<Drup> reynir: yes
<mort___> in any case — it seems to me better not to impose non-overridable options from a UI pov, given we have a mechanism for letting users override things
<mort___> fwiw
<Drup> mort___: as usual, bug report please :p
<mort___> will do
<mort___> done
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<hannes> mort___: you can provide your own ocamlbuild shell wrapper, which filters classic-display.
<hannes> mort___: "we have a mechanism for letting users override things" <- this needs explanation. I don't see what you are refering to.
<mort___> hannes: that's the purpose of the -include Makefile.user line in the generated Makefile, no?
<hannes> (and I'm not in favour of making everything user-configurable. the resulting code complexity is not a good tradeoff for usability)
<hannes> mort___: not sure what you mean
<mort___> the mirage generated makefile has a line near the start "-include Makefile.user"
<hannes> the Makefile is not used too much anymore, you realised this on the way?
<mort___> the purpose of those lines in the generated makefiles (originally at least) was to let users set variables to reconfigure the invocations of the various ocaml tools
<mort___> yes
<hannes> (but hey, feel free to revert and let mirage output a gigantic Makefile using string concatenation..)
<mort___> i'm fine with not doing that
<hannes> so, what is wrong with classic-display?
<hannes> it is now there since nearly everything uses it (e.g. the topkg universe) -- imho it is much more sane than without..
<mort___> but, having not liked it initially (i was a happy and commonplace user of classic-display), i now like the fact that ocamlbuild no longer makes me scroll back through gazillions of lines to find out if there were errors/warnings
<mort___> as this is something that the underlying tool makes configurable (albeit only in one direction, sigh), i personally think it would be nicer to not impose it in the tool
<mort___> but if the universe is shifting away from the fancy output, shrug
<hannes> hmm... well.. it seems we're using different tools here... I personally read ocamlbuild output from travis these days.. and use merlin to get rid of warnings + errors..
<mort___> i often try and build locally before pushing hte commits and making travis do it :)
<mort___> (also i imagine there may be cases where travis is happier with fewer lines of output)
<mort___> (though I haven't any situations right now where i've hit that particular limit, and can't recall what the specific limit is these days)
<hannes> what I want to avoid: another ad-hoc place to configure behaviour. I'm not happy with the .mirage.config.
<hannes> my experience with travis + fancy output is that it cuts away the useful parts for some escape-sequence reason
<mort___> hm
<mort___> well if travis is eating things improperly, then it's definitely better to leave classic-display on
<hannes> but this is just my opinion, FWIW
<hannes> but not only classic-display, you could argue every hardcoded piece should be user-configurable... or switch to this new fancy build system whose name I already forgot
<mort___> while i agree with comments about not making everyhting under the sun user configurable, i think that letting users tweak display options is reasonable
<mort___> since none of us know eg what terminal any given user is using
<mort___> (pity the poor caveman who's still on a line printer)
<mort___> i await the fancy new build system with anticipation and a bottle of bubbly
<hannes> i responded to your issue
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<mort___> ack. agree there's more pressing issues. but that's the nature of trying things out— user facing decisions get hit first
<hannes> i do not understand what you mean
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<hannes> i strongly believe, the user experience of mirage3 is much improved over mirage2.
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<mort___> it is. but this particular thing is a user-facing change and so i noticed it immediately. i wasn't commenting on it or raising it as an issue because i thought it was fantatsically important
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<hannes> well, maybe mirage shouldn't after all call out to ocamlbuild
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