rellla changed the topic of #linux-sunxi to: Allwinner/sunxi /development discussion - did you try looking at our wiki? https://linux-sunxi.org - Don't ask to ask. Just ask and wait! - https://github.com/linux-sunxi/ - Logs at http://irclog.whitequark.org/linux-sunxi - *only registered users can talk*
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<tuxd3v> apritzel, debian maintains a ppc64be
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<apritzel> well, I can see that for PPC, but who does that for arm(64)?
<apritzel> the most interesting question would be: why?
<tuxd3v> for arm dunno; and I believe arm64 doesn't support in full arm63be, its maybe just a impression I got..
<apritzel> tuxd3v: technically arm64be fully works
<apritzel> I once built a Slackware ARM64 BE port, mostly to test my cross build scripts
<tuxd3v> arm64 supporting 32 bits big endian binaries, I agree
<tuxd3v> but dunno in arm64be is possible
<apritzel> sure it is
<tuxd3v> So why arm64 is not advertized as Biendian?
<apritzel> it is
<tuxd3v> no its not
<apritzel> it's just no one is using it
<tuxd3v> well the network devices would have to use it, since the network in BigEndian..
<apritzel> ARMv8 supports both BE and LE, the difference to ARMv7 is that you cannot switch endianess while staying in your exception level
<apritzel> so there is no setend instruction anymore
<tuxd3v> ok, I never really saw any arm64be, and the network is bigendin, so ofcourse there would be a lot of use caes for such devices..
<apritzel> CONFIG_CPU_BIG_ENDIAN in the kernel config
<apritzel> yes, there is this old story of "IP is big endian, so a BE CPU is great for networking"
<tuxd3v> I for instance will maybe get a ppp64be, in the comming year ..or two..
<apritzel> but this is really a story from the '90s, and is mostly (if not totally) irrelevant these days
<tuxd3v> apritzel, ..its not a story, its the reality
<tuxd3v> litle endian machines pass a lot of time translating ..
<apritzel> no, they don't
<tuxd3v> ho yes they do
<apritzel> what I mean those conversions are not affecting performance in reality
<apritzel> x86 has MOVBE, arm(64) has REV
<apritzel> it's a single instruction, and the CPU can do this on the side
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<apritzel> and it does this with CPU speed, which is many orders of magnitudes faster than the network line speed
<apritzel> plus it only affects the network packets headers, not the payload
<apritzel> so in reality you gain exactly *nothing* by running in BE
<apritzel> in contrast I would expect you waste cycles elsewhere, since you now need to convert everything going to the bus into LE
<apritzel> PCI is LE, ARM instructions are LE, most (all?) devices are actually LE
<apritzel> one other reason for BE might be legacy software, from Sparc/Alpha/PPC
<apritzel> but this fixed-BE code is getting rare, and you will have other problems when porting this to ARM64
<apritzel> the reality is that no one seriously asks for BE
<apritzel> you can say CONFIG_CPU_BIG_ENDIAN=y, and get a BE arm64 kernel, that boots fine, but is mostly pointless due to missing userland
<apritzel> (for some versions of "fine", as montjoie discovered)
<tuxd3v> I agree with you on the userland for BE is a lot lower than for LE
<apritzel> but please, by all means, give it a try
<apritzel> just don't be disappointed
<tuxd3v> I will, when the opensource hardware is ready :)
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<libv> another opensource notebook, while we are all still waiting anxiously on that eoma-68 notebook that got crowdsupply backing more than 4ys ago
<apritzel> while I appreciate all those efforts from an openness point of view, it's a shame that it diverts people from stuff that really matters ...
<smaeul> I have run BE on my POWER9, and even there, where big-endian userspace is readily available, the main reason to do so is "to promote diversity" or "because I can"
<apritzel> smaeul: is it running Linux? I had the impression that Linux is pushing towards ppc64le?
<smaeul> yes, Linux on POWER9 fully supports BE. *IBM* is pushing towards ppc64le, for entirely political reasons.
<apritzel> smaeul: I see, indeed this might be the direction I heard this from
<smaeul> another reason for the option of a BE userland is to ease porting to BE-only architectures (e.g. ppc32)... but fewer people seem to care these days
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<tuxd3v> libv, this is a real notebook, not the crappy devices out there with 4GB Ram..
<tuxd3v> this supports 64 GB Ram dua chanel
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<tuxd3v> it has even lte, with simcard , etc
<tuxd3v> everything
<tuxd3v> including even a second ethernet via gpio
<tuxd3v> M2 slots, and so on, everything you can dream with in a laptop :)
<tuxd3v> ho and you can install, iirc a amd amd mxm card til 50w of power :)
<tuxd3v> its a very nice machine
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<apritzel> using a 6 year old CPU :-(
<tuxd3v> well they started thinking in doing it in 2014
<tuxd3v> the project gained real momentum in around 2017
<tuxd3v> but in that regard, is not diferent from pinephone, or any other opensource project like the purism phone, or mntre.com
<apritzel> it says NXP T2080, which was released in 2014
<tuxd3v> with the big diference that is supports virtually all interfaces you can have today
<tuxd3v> yes its I believe a 28nm process cpu
<tuxd3v> from 2014
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<montjoie> apritzel: it is just for testing
<montjoie> anyway sunxi arm64 works well in BE (no visible failure)
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<montjoie> apart this very hot temperature
<karlp> opewnrt supports all the mips32be devices too, which expose userspace bugs from time to time
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<MoeIcenowy> montjoie: I assume something is wrong about the thermal sensor calibration
<MoeIcenowy> H6 THS calibration is complex
<montjoie> problably it miss some cpu_to_xx32
<MoeIcenowy> montjoie: yes, in sun8i_ths_calibrate it just passes void* to u16*
<KotCzarny> moiecenowy: but his board is h64
<KotCzarny> not h6
<KotCzarny> unless i remember wrong
<MoeIcenowy> KotCzarny: Pine H64 uses H6./
<KotCzarny> ahm
<KotCzarny> funny name then
<MoeIcenowy> well yes, because few people know about Allwinner H64
<KotCzarny> confusing
<MoeIcenowy> I think it's going to fail on H3-like THS then
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<linkmauve> montjoie, whici userland did you end up using?
<montjoie> linkmauve: I use buildroot
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<montjoie> linkmauve: I use both LE/BE buildroot, but by use I mean "CI test", in real production I use nothing
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<willmore> lurchi_, 360 is PPC. One and newer are x86.
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