ChanServ changed the topic of #linux-rockchip to: Rockchip development discussion | IRC log http://irclog.whitequark.org/linux-rockchip | Community GH https://github.com/linux-rockchip | Rockchip GH https://github.com/rockchip-linux | ML https://groups.google.com/group/linux-rockchip
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<asciilifeform> in re cr50/h1 thread : http://www.loper-os.org/?p=2433 ( for folks interested in c101pa and other chromebooks . )
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<paulk-gagarine> asciilifeform, yay!
<paulk-gagarine> humm
<paulk-gagarine> just read through it
<paulk-gagarine> feels really weird
<paulk-gagarine> meh, need to read it again
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<paulk-gagarine> asciilifeform, so tl;dr: the Cr50 chip has keys wired in hardware that prevent reflashing it or something?
<paulk-gagarine> well, that prevent executing random code when reflashed
<paulk-gagarine> the blog post is not very clear about the relationship between the "missing keys" and the ability to reflash the firmware
<paulk-gagarine> I'd expect that it can still be reflashed from the servo header (if applicable)
<paulk-gagarine> if not from the running host
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<paulk-gagarine> asciilifeform, also, why are you not asking about this in #chromium-os and #coreboot?
<paulk-gagarine> that's where the chromium os devs hang
<paulk-gagarine> that would avoid drawing mislead conclusions
<asciilifeform> nope, can't reflash via servo
<paulk-gagarine> (not that I'm saying it's the case, but your conclusions definitely do surprise me)
<asciilifeform> cr50 is a 'tpm' chip and brings out no flash rom, has only internal
<asciilifeform> and is fully tivoized, rsa-tests all proposed updates.
<paulk-gagarine> is this confirmed by googlers?
<asciilifeform> this was pretty clear, i thought, from amstan's thread
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<asciilifeform> fella claims to work for google and to have been one of my machine's designers; i'm inclined to believe him.
<asciilifeform> analysis of the pcb also confirms, there is no loading of cr50 code from external roms.
<paulk-gagarine> but it still can be reflashed, right>
<paulk-gagarine> ?
<paulk-gagarine> I mean, the flash is rw
<paulk-gagarine> not ro
<asciilifeform> reflashed iphone-style. i.e. with vendor-signed (rsa) image.
<asciilifeform> if signature does not match, the new image stays inactive in the 'rw' (temporary) partition.
<paulk-gagarine> ok I'll need to send a few emails about this
<asciilifeform> i recommend to read the public source, it is quite readable.
<asciilifeform> ( and i linked to the relevant routines. )
<paulk-gagarine> yeah
<paulk-gagarine> so LOADERKEY_A and LOADERKEY_B are the pubkeys?
<paulk-gagarine> I'm sad they didn't use RO only memory
<paulk-gagarine> thanks for the great investigation asciilifeform
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<adj_> asciilifeform, is H1 also included in kevin and elm?
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<mmind00> adj_: kevin uses a different tpm chip
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<asciilifeform> http://www.loper-os.org/pub/h1_fritz_chip.jpg << photo with label
<asciilifeform> can see if it is in your particular box.
<asciilifeform> ( my understanding is that all boxes where the http://www.loper-os.org/?p=2415 debug cable works, have it. )
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<paulk-gagarine> adj_, definitely not
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<paulk-gagarine> asciilifeform, have you tried getting UART for it?
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<asciilifeform> paulk-gagarine: i had uart earlier this wk, http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/XPFXr/?raw=true ( this is prev ver, in then flashed in google's next image to get the rma unlock command )
<asciilifeform> cr50 uart shows up on /dev/ttyUSB0 via my selfmade usb 'suzyq'
<asciilifeform> ttyUSB1 is ec uart; 2 is AP (cpu) uart
<asciilifeform> 3 is a fw upgrade intake; 4 and 5 possibly same but for ec and spi bootrom for cpu
<asciilifeform> in re cr50 uart, the only useful thing you can do from it in 'production' ( consumer machine ) rom, is to read version
<asciilifeform> in 3.4 rom you can also attempt the rma unlock ( see my post today ), but google's www will simply laugh at you when you go to fetch the magic decrypted code.
<asciilifeform> i was able to flash in , via the trunks_send vendor util ( https://groups.google.com/a/chromium.org/forum/m/#!msg/chromium-os-reviews/NjldTEyLv2w/saQUTpzJDgAJ ) that rom
<asciilifeform> given as i found an image in their repo with valid sig
<asciilifeform> but now i have nothing else to flash in, there is a rollback preventer that stops replacememt of cr50 fw with old or dev vers.
<paulk-gagarine> yeah https://www.google.com/chromeos/partner/ is not public
<asciilifeform> unsurprisingly
<paulk-gagarine> anyway it defeats the purpose of a TPM to allow reflashing by anyone else than the manufacturer
<asciilifeform> it isn't merely a box for storing keys.
<asciilifeform> it's an intel-style nobus rootkit.
<paulk-gagarine> yeah scratch that
<paulk-gagarine> they've done it once, they could have done it twice
<paulk-gagarine> I really need to ask why things were done that way
<asciilifeform> for the obvious reason, imho.
<paulk-gagarine> ?
<paulk-gagarine> DRM?
<asciilifeform> e.g. fbi can vacuum up the contents of 'locked' cbook, or plant 'evidence' without leaving a trace, or insert, during baggage inspections or in hotel, keyloggers, etc
<asciilifeform> and google made is deliberately difficult for the machine owner to detect or interfere.
<asciilifeform> 'tpm' was a bait and switch from day 1, back when it was 'palladium', and pushed by ms
<asciilifeform> and plenty of folks, e.g. rms, understood in 1990s, and warned.
<asciilifeform> and 'market choice' is a sick joke, where exactly do i buy a ~new~ laptop without fritz chip.
<paulk-gagarine> that line of reasoning is inconsistent with most of the previous choices they made
<asciilifeform> their 'openness' is a front.
<paulk-gagarine> I don't buy that. At all.
<asciilifeform> then explain cr50.
<paulk-gagarine> probably something related to glued displays
<asciilifeform> 'open but for this nsa backdoor' is not what people typically think of as 'open'.
<paulk-gagarine> but I will ask the relevant questions to the relevant people and find out
<paulk-gagarine> I think you're missing the fact that if there was no signature at this point, the device would be fully vulnerable to any attack under this model
<paulk-gagarine> it was definitely not designed as a backdoor
<asciilifeform> it is a backdoor, in that it privileges some physical attackers over others.
<paulk-gagarine> oh I'm not questioning that
<paulk-gagarine> I'm saying it was not designed as one
<paulk-gagarine> there's a difference
<asciilifeform> a plain old, e.g., floppy disk, is not 'vulnerable', anyone who finds it, can read, write
<asciilifeform> cr50, on other hand, is specifically a nsa nobus smoking gun.
<paulk-gagarine> have you read about the cros security model?
<paulk-gagarine> it really feels like you're missing most of the points
<asciilifeform> the 2014 page ?
<paulk-gagarine> and focusing on one specific aspect
<asciilifeform> written when cr50 did not exist.
<asciilifeform> it is the only aspect that matters ! 'other than that, mrs lincoln, how was the play?' !
<paulk-gagarine> ok so maybe learn about it, you might gain a different perspective
<asciilifeform> nope.
<asciilifeform> i read the whole published src.
<paulk-gagarine> ok then I guess there's not much point in discussing motivations I suppose
<asciilifeform> the only thing that remains for me to learn, is how to break it.
<lurchi_> asciilifeform: can you please stop ranting, its quite annoying for anyone following this channel
<paulk-gagarine> you absolutely lack elements to get a clear idea
<paulk-gagarine> but I agree with your conclusions
<paulk-gagarine> which is what matters to end users, anyway
<paulk-gagarine> lurchi_, erm, maybe don't pay attention if you don't like what people are saying?
<asciilifeform> i'ma bbl. i think my article speaks for itself and contains ample proof of all of my hypotheses.
<paulk-gagarine> lurchi_, this is definitely in-topic
<paulk-gagarine> asciilifeform, disagreed
<paulk-gagarine> lurchi_, please be respectful to others :)
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