<soul-d>
did you see that chick doing that stuff :P tobad only few vids but intresting stuff
<soul-d>
but if normal ones are not organic can oen do non organic leds at home ?
<soul-d>
she ofcours used exotic stuff so do't really consider it diy
<Sync_>
norfoil for h2so4 azonenberg? that is a bit paranoid
<azonenberg>
Sync_: I have it
<azonenberg>
the alternative is thin exam-style nitrile
<azonenberg>
so it seems silly not to use it
<azonenberg>
I bought it for HF
<soul-d>
like trow away box of nitrile those blue ones ?
<azonenberg>
Yeah
<azonenberg>
I wouldnt trust that for hot h2so4
<azonenberg>
But if i wear it over the norfoil it gives me a much better grip
<azonenberg>
sticky rather than slippery
<azonenberg>
and also provides some puncture resistance
<azonenberg>
norfoil is known to be weak against sharpness
<soul-d>
i don't like to enclosed either makes hand sweat to much
<azonenberg>
Well, I've never injured myself in the lab yet
<soul-d>
so like the bigger ones better anyhow also long sleeven like half way up arm
<azonenberg>
I plan to keep it that way
<soul-d>
yeah same
<Sync_>
I have lots of etch marks on my hand
<azonenberg>
And I tend to favor engineering controls over PPE when possible
<azonenberg>
hence the fume hood
<soul-d>
still have some unindetiefied liquid leftover from no generation :P
<soul-d>
like the hcl kno3 copper mixter
<hozer>
so how did all of you outfit your labs?
<azonenberg>
" Good for most hazardous chemicals. Poor fit (Note: Dexterity can be partially regained by using a heavier weight Nitrile glove over the Norfoil/Silver Shield glove. "
<Sync_>
I also have some spots where hot NaOH tried to soap my skin
<hozer>
I'm thinking one of these days I'll need to pick up a fume hood from a university surplus sale and take it out to the farm
<azonenberg>
hozer: I built mine
<azonenberg>
ducted fan and some pieces of plastic
<soul-d>
but id be more woried like splashes on clothes shoes then spilling on gloves
<azonenberg>
i haven't had it officially certified or anything but it's kept everything I use in it below oder threshold
<azonenberg>
acetone, IPA, hot HCl, etc
<azonenberg>
odor*
<azonenberg>
soul-d: My lab coat hangs down to knee level
<azonenberg>
which is well below the level of the hood
<soul-d>
yeah should order a few can't be that expensive
<azonenberg>
I got a case of 25
<azonenberg>
dirt cheap
<Sync_>
hm, acetone and ipa, yeah one should probably care more about those
<azonenberg>
i'd care more about the hot HCl
<azonenberg>
lol
<azonenberg>
anyway, i've never been able to smell any of them
<azonenberg>
and the PEL for all of them, according to MSDS, is well above the odor threshold
<azonenberg>
so if i cant smell it then it's well within safe limits
<Sync_>
lame
<hozer>
Sync_: are you more of the if you can't smell it it's not working crowd?
<azonenberg>
lol
<Sync_>
but I gotta say, that I can differentiate between different car working fluids by their taste
<azonenberg>
i like my lungs the way they are, turned on
<azonenberg>
and working normally
<Sync_>
also different brands of gasoline based on how they burn on the skin
<azonenberg>
lol
<azonenberg>
yeah, not me
<soul-d>
well my lungs suck :(
<azonenberg>
this is why i'm glad my former lab partner is no longer around here
<azonenberg>
out on the west coast where if he blows himself up i'm safely out of range in NY :p
<hozer>
Sync_: that's kinda like me checking sorghum cane for sugar content by taste
<Sync_>
as if that is going to harm you azonenberg
<hozer>
Sync_: I should see if I can determine ethanol concentration faster by skin burn than messing with a density hygrometer
<azonenberg>
i just mean i wasnt a fan of his approach to lab safety
<hozer>
My rule is I'll only taste a chemical if I grew the biomass feedstock myself
<soul-d>
im messy maybe but at least i wanna be safe sorta :P
<Sync_>
well I can differentiate between e0 e5 e10 and e85
<hozer>
I'd be fine with that if I could get rid of the crappy petro-gasoline
<Sync_>
and between different engine oils, ATF, brake fluid, coolant and such
<hozer>
I was wondering if I could get the ATF to let me use ammonia as a denaturant instead of petro-crap
<Sync_>
you might want to use FeCl3
<Sync_>
or mek
<hozer>
err ATF <- US alcohol tobacco and firearms. We have to make alcohol 'unfit for human consumption' to use as fuel
<azonenberg>
or you can have your fuel taxed as an alcoholic beverage
<azonenberg>
yoru choice
<hozer>
heh
<soul-d>
:)
<hozer>
exactly.
<hozer>
Although it would be an amusing stunt to run a car on food-grade (and taxed) alcohol
<soul-d>
how long did a hot run take azonenberg ? order of min's or hours or heating ?
<azonenberg>
soul-d: 20 minuts or so once it ogt hot
<Sync_>
yeah mek makes it unfit for human use
<azonenberg>
my hot plate takes like an hour to go from 0 to 150C
<hozer>
Sync_: can you differentiate diesel from biodiesel
<Sync_>
yes, engine works or engine broken
<soul-d>
oh i got one of those cheap things 700W
<hozer>
huh? what crappy engine do you have that biodiesel breaks it :P
<Sync_>
you cannot really run biodiesel in commonrail engines because of the lubrication properties
<soul-d>
mistakenly left it on power once and those temp things turned on so i have powerd the thing for like long time during a winter period
<soul-d>
but probably only takes few mins to heat up
<hozer>
Sync_: any way to alter something I can grow on a farm to have the proper lubrication?
<Sync_>
no
<Sync_>
you need the real deal
<Sync_>
or run a gasoline engine
<hozer>
so what needs to change, the injectors?
<Sync_>
no
<Sync_>
the high pressure pump
<hozer>
ah, they get to like 5000psi for common rail, right?
<Sync_>
yes
<hozer>
so, either I have to replace injection pumps and add fuel tank heaters, or figure out how to denature ethanol with something I grow
<hozer>
I suppose pyrolysis oil is nice and unfit for human consumption
<soul-d>
add monsanto round up
<soul-d>
but then people behing the car might drop from bicicle :P
<hozer>
soul-d: HAH. Unfortunately the market seems to think roundup is quite safe to spray everywhere
<soul-d>
yah scary
<Sync_>
hozer: you cannot replace them
<Sync_>
because there are no pumps that can handle biodiesel
<hozer>
Now what I really want to figure out is how to refine high-purity silicon from the silica in sorghum leaves
<hozer>
Sync_: geez, someone should be able to engineer a damn pump that works in B100
<Sync_>
they all work on the verge of the oilfilm breaking
<hozer>
well, maybe I just need a oil feedstock that has higher film strength ;)
<hozer>
or older engines...
<Sync_>
yes, fossil diesel
<Sync_>
I don't like bio fuels
<hozer>
I don't see any pumpjacks on my farm
<Sync_>
get one
<hozer>
therefore I don't like petro-crap :P
<Sync_>
also diesel comes out of the petrol station
<hozer>
well, if I had one of these.. http://windfuels.com/ I'd start using diesel again
<Sync_>
if you run an old diesel there won't be a problem
<hozer>
guestimates are that project is about $10 million from producing a pilot plant
<Sync_>
biofuels are not better than fossil fuels imho
<hozer>
I have a farm, tell me where to get fuel that I can see the entire process :P
<azonenberg>
sure they are, they make treehuggers happy
<azonenberg>
:P
<Sync_>
why do you want such fuel hozer?
<Sync_>
yeah azonenberg but hurt the environment more than just burning fossils
<azonenberg>
True
<azonenberg>
OTOH, fossil fuels will eventually run out
<azonenberg>
thats a fact
<azonenberg>
and environmentally friendly or not, we need a replacement when that happens
<Sync_>
yes but that will take some while
<Sync_>
eventually we'll liquify coal again WW2 style
<Sync_>
but until then I just fill my car/bike up and hit the road
<soul-d>
yeah someone should invent startrek teleporter/replicator already been long enough now
<Sync_>
that takes all the fun out of traveling
<soul-d>
well first heating experiment went well stiring in some black goo now taste bit bitter though
<hozer>
Sync_: for the same reason I want to fabricate silicon.. I think I can do it more effectively for my own needs than buying it from someone else
<hozer>
for the silicon, I want to be able to fabricate replacment engine controllers for 30 year old farm equipment
<Sync_>
megasquirt them
* soul-d
adds note to self if azon sugests fume hood it's probably wise to listen :P also the tea bag thing made condensate drip outside on hot plate so had to turn it around steaming acid all over the place
<hozer>
Sync_: sure, but where do I get the silicon for the megasquirt :P
<Sync_>
companies offer it
<Sync_>
you are not going to be more efficient than large scale industrial processes.
<Sync_>
not for fuel, not for sillicon
<hozer>
this isn't about efficiency, it's about being able to fabricate a chip on short notice because it's not made anymore and I can fabricate it myself faster than tracking it down in a warehouse
<hozer>
case in point: We had a bearing go out on the combine.
<Sync_>
this is not possible with both fuel and microchips
<hozer>
We could wait 3 days for the 'factory dealer part' to get shipped to the dealer, then drive 50 miles to the dealer
<hozer>
OR go to the local machine shop and have them weld up the shaft and turn it down
<hozer>
and we were back in the field at 20% of the time and 10% of the cost of the 'factory' part
<Sync_>
that is a whole different game
<hozer>
the guy down the road from me had a research ethanol still and grew corn and made ethanol and ran a tractor on it
<hozer>
I really don't care how inefficient it is as long as I have the capability to make $10/gallon fuel from stuff I can grow on the farm
<hozer>
as for chips, if I can stock reconfigurable fpga-like stuff and a CNC setup to make circuit boards on-demand I can take a chip, make a PCB, and have a replacement controller for a grain dryer or gps or whatever faster than ordering commercial stuff
<hozer>
and I want to know that there's a fab someplace I can drive to on my farm-grown fuel that *makes* those FPGA-like chips so I can restock when needed
<hozer>
The alternative is to keep lots of antique farm equipment that does not have any electronics in working order. Building my own fab line sounds like it will cost me less money and iron
<Sync_>
that is a tall plan
<hozer>
especially since if I'm the one that knows how to replace the engine controller (or GPS-auto-steer) with something open-source, I can pick up equipment that's got good iron, but burned out electronics for scrap metal price
<hozer>
so I spend $5000 on a tractor with an engine controller that's burned up, and no replacements are available
<hozer>
and make a working tractor, and sell it, and I just made $50,000
<Sync_>
I'd just hook any off the shelf ecu to it
<Sync_>
way easier than trying to fabricate my own chips
<hozer>
if I start doing this a lot, and contract out some machine shops, pretty soon I've got enough capital to buy a bankrupt fab overseas and ship the equipment back to the farm
<hozer>
Sync_: what off the shelf ecu would you recommend ;)
<hozer>
I still think it's a better investment to be able to fabricate the entire ECU and then sell it to everyone else (along with the silicon masks, if they want it)
<Sync_>
again, the megasquirt
<hozer>
so what silicon does it use
<Sync_>
that depends on which one you use
<azonenberg>
soul-d: lol, you tried decapping without one?
<azonenberg>
I tried once or twice
<azonenberg>
Not doing it again
<azonenberg>
Don't say i didnt warn you :P
<soul-d>
:P it;s cooling off din't dare to keep heat on only got it
<soul-d>
donno if you call it boil but chips where like dancing a bit
<Sync_>
then it is most efficient at heat transfer
<azonenberg>
soul-d: Might have been boiling, might have been outgassing from the reaction
<azonenberg>
hard to tell
<azonenberg>
oh, another word of advice for H2SO4 in particular
<azonenberg>
it tends to bubble
<azonenberg>
Your beaker should be sized 5-10x the liquid volume
<azonenberg>
to contain splashing/foaming
<soul-d>
but donno was using left over experiment h2so4 electrolised copper sometime so might have been diluted for that experiment donno left bottle unlabled to long so just labled it h2so4 :P
<azonenberg>
That could be an issue too
<azonenberg>
For decapping you need extremely concentrated
<azonenberg>
John tells me etch rates go down exponentially as concenrtation drops below like 98%
<soul-d>
well it still mesured 0 on ph paper
<azonenberg>
Yeah
<azonenberg>
but you can dilute concentrated H2SO4 a lot and still peg typical indicators
<soul-d>
k ill try bottle next to next time got few hours of comunity service left
<soul-d>
so 2 more afthernoons intermitend day's so hard to start up experimens this week haven't done much programing either i usualy forget time if i do those things