<FromGitter>
<Blacksmoke16> or if you declare a as a hash with both strings and ints it'll know
<FromGitter>
<Qwerp-Derp> The thing is I have a function that interacts with the user, it's cumbersome if the user declares the hash as `{} of String => String | Int32`
<FromGitter>
<Qwerp-Derp> I need the hash to be declared literally
<FromGitter>
<Blacksmoke16> .as might be best bet then
<FromGitter>
<Blacksmoke16> if you dont declare the hash with a values of both Int32 and String it wont know that you want anything other than what you give it
<FromGitter>
<Blacksmoke16> hmm sec
<FromGitter>
<Blacksmoke16> im thinking if you dont declare the type that you want the hash before hand and/or dont provide it all types that will be in the hash (i.e. omitting the Int32 value) you would have to declare it before hand as the type you want
<FromGitter>
<faustinoaq> Would be possible to use crystal (LLVM) with GraalVM https://www.graalvm.org/ ?
<FromGitter>
<fgimian> hey there guys, is there a way that I can avoid calling `add_arguments` in subclasses in this example: https://play.crystal-lang.org/#/r/49bt
<FromGitter>
<fgimian> 😄
<FromGitter>
<fgimian> also any suggested improvements are absolutely welcome
<FromGitter>
<fgimian> are you aware of any way that I can automatically generate that method without having to call `add_arguments` on subclasses at all?
<FromGitter>
<fgimian> the problem is really timing, the inherited hook runs before the arguments are added
<FromGitter>
<bew> With the `inherited` hook you can add a `finished` hook
<FromGitter>
<fgimian> I checked out the finished hook, although that seemed to be triggered after all classes were completed just once
<FromGitter>
<fgimian> I'll try it again though
<FromGitter>
<fgimian> 😄
<FromGitter>
<fgimian> thanks heaps guys!!!
<FromGitter>
<fgimian> also @S-YOU that is a much nicer solution for NamedTuple, just tested it on my codebase too and it's beautiful
<FromGitter>
<S-YOU> Thats right, it should be doable with inhertied, I forgot about that, while I am using on my projects xD
<FromGitter>
<fgimian> interesting, I'll definitely play more with it guys
<FromGitter>
<fgimian> perhaps what I can do is use finished to then iterate over all the subclasses created
<FromGitter>
<fgimian> I'll try it out and post the result shortly
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<FromGitter>
<S-YOU> one more suggestion, instead of using `ARGUMENT_NAMES = [] of String` in inherited, ⏎ you can just use `ARGUMENT_NAMES << {{name.var.stringify}}` in argument I think.
<FromGitter>
<S-YOU> doing ` ARGUMENT_NAMES = [] of String` twice is not very correct to me.
<FromGitter>
<fgimian> actually, that was a problem for me sadly
<FromGitter>
<fgimian> because the inherited class doesn't define its own constant
<FromGitter>
<fgimian> so what would happen is all the values would be added to the superclass and everything would break
<FromGitter>
<fgimian> this took me a while to figure out too, and I agree it's not so elegant but I'm not aware of a better way atm
<FromGitter>
<fgimian> try remove it and you'll see things go pretty bad 😃
<FromGitter>
<bendietze_twitter> Yes, ok, i just looked in content table and search - but ok, top level namespace - thank you @bararchy
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<FromGitter>
<bendietze_twitter> I want to print the API for better reading, but i cannot because i am waiting for release 25 😄 😄
<FromGitter>
<bendietze_twitter> Hmm ... devdocs.io shows loop everywhere ... Thought we have a improved search engine in stdlib, but, that isn't... Ok, next time i better look at both ;)
<FromGitter>
<bararchy> The search for non-master branch is really bad, it will become much better in the next release
<FromGitter>
<faustinoaq> I think crystal do some extra stuff to get working binaries with standard lib (maybe because external dependencies, pcre, lievent, bwdgc, etc)
<FromGitter>
<faustinoaq> I think an mini alternative to stdlib (without Fiber, GC or stdlib in general) would be nice to use with `--prelude="minimal"` (lighting fast compilation, lowest level, smallest binaries, unsafe as hell) 😅
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<Groogy>
is there a delete method on arrays that takes a block?
<Groogy>
if block true, remove element
<FromGitter>
<faustinoaq> Oh, I just realize GraalVM can load external libs ⏎ ⏎ Now I'm getting a different error 😅 ⏎ ⏎ `org.graalvm.polyglot.PolyglotException: java.lang.AssertionError: [256 x i8]` ... [https://gitter.im/crystal-lang/crystal?at=5b1d08d06023754a31807735]
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<FromGitter>
<fgimian> Hey guys, is there a way to center justify text in Crystal? I've written the following function in the meantime 😄
<FromGitter>
<narimiran> @faustinoaq hi there, the author of that tutorial here :) it's nice to hear somebody is using it, after just a day from publishing it :)
<FromGitter>
<narimiran> if you spot any errors or if you have improvement advice, please let me know, as the tutorial is still in the early phase (i have published it only on the nim channel, i plan to fix the mistakes before advertising it more widely)
<FromGitter>
<fgimian> sweet @faustinoaq, will check it out 😄
<FromGitter>
<fgimian> oh wow, great to have you all here guys
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<FromGitter>
<fgimian> sorry for the late reply too, I was / am trying to get some code working 😄
<FromGitter>
<S-YOU> Thanks, just read that. Basically it is python :)
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<FromGitter>
<fgimian> yeah
<FromGitter>
<fgimian> Nim looks very much like Python
<FromGitter>
<eliasjpr> One more time, may I ask why Crystal is not 1.0v?
<FromGitter>
<narimiran> @S-YOU @fgimian i'm coming from the python world and that "basically python" thingy was why i even started with nim. but as you go deeper, you find out it is more than that - it is a much newer language so it corrects some python mistakes and introduces some new cool stuff
<FromGitter>
<S-YOU> Because, Windows version is not ready?
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<FromGitter>
<j8r> @eliasjpr because the API still change
<FromGitter>
<fgimian> @narimiran Ah yes, it's much like Crystal too. On the surface it looks like Ruby, but as soon as you start digging deeper, you realise it is quite different to Ruby under the covers.
<FromGitter>
<eliasjpr> I just need a refresher, cause I have been meeting with some Startups in NYC and talking to CTOs and VP of Engineering team and have experessed a high interest on Crystal and what has kept them from using it in production is that is not yet V1 after years of development. They experessed willingnes to invest in the language with either dedicated developers, money and/or sponsorship
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<FromGitter>
<eliasjpr> Windows support sounds more like a feature than a v1 release need
<FromGitter>
<narimiran> you can "write python" in nim, and it will be ok. but when you leave python behind and start writing idiomatic nim - don't be surprised to see a significant performance/speed improvement (this happened to me)
<FromGitter>
<fgimian> @narimiran cool! will try it out sometime
<FromGitter>
<S-YOU> @narimiran, thanks. I wish I could find more use cases about Nim. I tried to use for Web application once, but it was a bit hard for me.
<FromGitter>
<eliasjpr> @j8r @S-YOU I got the sense from those meetings is that the fact that Crystal is not V1 has been holding adoption tremendously. The CTO of SimpleReach expressed to me that he was very very tempted to use Crystal in production (Cluster of 15 Nodes)
<FromGitter>
<j8r> @eliasjpr That's nice! Note that "production ready" is more a marketing term than a technical one. If the devs do functional/load tests, there will likely less problems than an untested application written for RedHat Wildfly or Oracle Java
<FromGitter>
<eliasjpr> So he went with GO Lang
<FromGitter>
<j8r> But the marketing matters :/
<FromGitter>
<faustinoaq> @narimiran Yeah, no problem, Thank you! 😄
<FromGitter>
<eliasjpr> Exactly it matters
<FromGitter>
<eliasjpr> I hope that the conversation the Core team will have on tuesday sheds some light on this
<dom96>
@S-YOU feel free to pop into the Nim gitter chat, we'll happily help you write web apps :)
<FromGitter>
<eliasjpr> And I somehow believe that is holding back adoption and adoption is important since it will prompt people to build libraries and other tooling that will just make the language more adoptable and stronger
<FromGitter>
<j8r> what I don't understand is that startup matters about production ready, but their new product they build aren't even production ready haha 😃
<FromGitter>
<eliasjpr> Their product generates 20 million in revenue
<FromGitter>
<eliasjpr> So while we Crystal, wait for a version 1, other languages are iterating faster and getting tooling and libs, by the time Crystal is V1 is going to be awesome but then people will start deciding which language to use is going to be measure by libraries and general adoption
<FromGitter>
<j8r> @eliasjpr anyway it will take time. If they invest on Crystal this will speed up the release of v1.0
<FromGitter>
<S-YOU> rust release cycle is good one, imo
<FromGitter>
<S-YOU> just release even when you don't have outstanding features :)
<FromGitter>
<eliasjpr> small iteration cycles is IMO good
<dom96>
eliasjpr: can you share the name of this startup?
<FromGitter>
<eliasjpr> SimpleReach is one of them
<FromGitter>
<eliasjpr> a lot of GO lang shops have considered Crystal or at least looked into Crystal at some point
<FromGitter>
<eliasjpr> which is very very interesting
<FromGitter>
<fgimian> sadly (for what it's worth), our organisation is the same at work
<FromGitter>
<fgimian> Crystal isn't even on their radar sadly, it's just C++, Golang, Python really
<FromGitter>
<S-YOU> I am the only Crystal user at my company xD
<FromGitter>
<fgimian> another part of my team is using Elixir
<FromGitter>
<fgimian> yeah, same here
<FromGitter>
<eliasjpr> I spoke to a couple of FinTech startups that expressed the same deal
<FromGitter>
<S-YOU> my company pretty much use Elixir too
<FromGitter>
<fgimian> Ultimately, the backwards compatibility is going to be a big thing
<FromGitter>
<fgimian> e.g. from the last release until now, there have been breaking changes
<FromGitter>
<faustinoaq> I'm using PHP because my boss thinks Crystal looks good but is "not ready" yet 😅
<FromGitter>
<eliasjpr> the only thing I can say Adoption is more important than we think for the Language
<FromGitter>
<fgimian> I'm using the master branch for all my dev work
<FromGitter>
<fgimian> @faustinoaq our legacy code is all PHP / Perl too, hehe
<FromGitter>
<faustinoaq> Same here (PHP 5) lol XD
<FromGitter>
<S-YOU> Good, we don't have php xD
<FromGitter>
<fgimian> hahaha yup, likewise
<FromGitter>
<fgimian> we have around 50k of frontend code in it, in all sorts of styles (HTML mixed with logic, templating .etc .etc)
<FromGitter>
<fgimian> it's a very old codebase
<FromGitter>
<fgimian> I'm so glad I don't work on that anymore hehehe
<FromGitter>
<fgimian> on the current project I'm working on, it's Python on AWS
<FromGitter>
<fgimian> it's a VERY VERY high traffic API (> 100 million hits per day) that could really use more speed
<FromGitter>
<fgimian> but if they move to anything, it'll be C++ or Golang, I doubt I could convince them to go with Crystal :(
<FromGitter>
<j8r> In python for hight traffic omg
<FromGitter>
<faustinoaq> Oh, nice! I also worked with Python in some projects before. Django is a nice framework 😄
<FromGitter>
<eliasjpr> I know that the Crystal Core team wants to build things right a solidly and the implication of breaking changes is well understood in our world. I would like to know what the Core Crystal team thinks
<FromGitter>
<S-YOU> Great, you can run python on such traffic. My group also use Python, and struggling with performance with Mysql.
<FromGitter>
<fgimian> @S-YOU we are too, but AWS scales it so you barely notice ... until you get the bill 😆
<FromGitter>
<eliasjpr> @S-YOU most likely is MySQL
<FromGitter>
<fgimian> if you look at something like AWS Lambda, they offer Python, Golang, JS, C#, Java as their runtimes, Golang was only added this year
<FromGitter>
<S-YOU> Yeah, indeed my sql. they start writing 200 lines stored procedures xD. Glad I was not directly involved.
<FromGitter>
<fgimian> getting support for Crystal in Lambda would be a huge win, but I think the API would have to be stable before that happens
<FromGitter>
<j8r> Why they can't just add LLVM?
<FromGitter>
<eliasjpr> i started to learn GO Lang and is a damn well build language
<FromGitter>
<S-YOU> you can run binary on lambda right?
<FromGitter>
<fgimian> @S-YOU possibly with some fiddling, but that's not the supported config I'm afraid
<FromGitter>
<eliasjpr> GO lang is going to propel
<FromGitter>
<fgimian> you would have to use ECS or something like that
<FromGitter>
<S-YOU> True about go lang, as long as I are ok with the syntax.
<FromGitter>
<faustinoaq> @eliasjpr C# is also very well designed :-P
<FromGitter>
<fgimian> yea, tbh ... I just don't understand how anyone can live with Golang as a language
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<FromGitter>
<fgimian> would rather just use C++ if it came down to that hehehe
<FromGitter>
<S-YOU> C 2.0 :)
<FromGitter>
<j8r> and don't mind about generics, OOP and like dealing with nils :)
<FromGitter>
<fgimian> @S-YOU exactly
<FromGitter>
<S-YOU> I am using Crystal because I dont want to write C++
<FromGitter>
<eliasjpr> @fgimian have you done GO?
<FromGitter>
<fgimian> @eliasjpr I have attempted to for a project at work and honestly ... the lack of keyword arguments alone was a dealbreaker for me
<FromGitter>
<fgimian> I tried all the fun workarounds with structs .etc, but it's a terrible situation
<FromGitter>
<j8r> on the system side, why `$GOPATH` this dependency hell
<FromGitter>
<fgimian> how about yourself Elias?
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<FromGitter>
<eliasjpr> dependency, the language has not external dependency
<FromGitter>
<eliasjpr> I am playing with it and IMO is truly well designed. I can understand that you miss keyword args
<FromGitter>
<fgimian> @eliasjpr yeah, but I'm glad you are enjoying it
<FromGitter>
<fgimian> clearly, many people have built great projects with Golang, so it's definitely capable
<FromGitter>
<faustinoaq> I am using Crystal because I dont want to write PHP
<FromGitter>
<faustinoaq> (still using PHP XD)
<FromGitter>
<eliasjpr> but it is a structured language thats certaing paradigm
<FromGitter>
<j8r> I was talking about dealing with package dependency, like vendoring or `godeps
<FromGitter>
<fgimian> @eliasjpr yeah, it truly is more like C than anything I've seen; I don't understand why some people say it's the next Python, it is absolutely nothing like Python
<FromGitter>
<S-YOU> Regarding networking programming, there is not much choice except C/C++. Crystal was hackable for that.
<FromGitter>
<eliasjpr> thats something I am finding interesting, yes, like the fact that all libs live in a repo and the way you have to define the full paths
<FromGitter>
<faustinoaq> Goby is very simple Ruby-Like
<FromGitter>
<faustinoaq> that compiles to go 😄
<FromGitter>
<S-YOU> haha, nice though.
<FromGitter>
<j8r> like nim, a python-like that compile to c?
<FromGitter>
<j8r> self-hosted languages like Crystal rocks :D
<FromGitter>
<fgimian> but it seems that Golang libs must be adapted to Goby?
<FromGitter>
<faustinoaq> I tried goby and seems it runs very fast :)
<FromGitter>
<faustinoaq> @fgimian Yeah, something like that
<FromGitter>
<S-YOU> same sense to nim I guess
<FromGitter>
<fgimian> @faustinoaq that's going to hurt the language heaps I think, most people will just use Go in that case I think
<FromGitter>
<j8r> or ruby with mruby
<FromGitter>
<faustinoaq> @j8r Well, Nim is a different story, Nim has multiples backends and is self-hosted as well 😉
<FromGitter>
<fgimian> Is Nim closer to 1.0 than Crystal in your opinion?
<FromGitter>
<fgimian> e.g. is the API more stable?
<FromGitter>
<fgimian> it's still not technically at 1.0 either according to the releases I can see
<FromGitter>
<faustinoaq> Oh, so many languages 😆
<FromGitter>
<eliasjpr> People want ruby syntax expressiveness so bad
<FromGitter>
<eliasjpr> but with the performance of C :thinking_face:
<FromGitter>
<fgimian> hehehe
<FromGitter>
<fgimian> indeed there are so many languages, but no languages do what Crystal does
<FromGitter>
<fgimian> I don't know of another language that has the Ruby style, with full OO support and compiled down to a single binary.
<FromGitter>
<eliasjpr> im telling you is like the Holy Grail
<FromGitter>
<faustinoaq> Well, I guess we enjoy to learn new stuff everyday :) ⏎ ⏎ I know some developers that actually doesn't like programming and they are stuck on C#/VB, Java, JS and PHP (period)
<FromGitter>
<eliasjpr> the Crystal Core team is sitting on top of a Gold mine and still looking at the horizon
<FromGitter>
<S-YOU> 😄
<FromGitter>
<S-YOU> I guess it is too early
<FromGitter>
<faustinoaq> @eliasjpr lol
<FromGitter>
<S-YOU> What if after 5 years and same situation :)
<FromGitter>
<faustinoaq> @bcardiff We need your opinion here 👀
<FromGitter>
<faustinoaq> @S-YOU We create a new language XD
<FromGitter>
<faustinoaq> lol
<FromGitter>
<S-YOU> And starts another 5 years xD
<FromGitter>
<eliasjpr> My big question for the Core team would be. What is good enough for v1, and is “good enough” enough for V1 Crystal?
* FromGitter
* fgimian better get to bed, but will be reading the conversation that eventuates in the morning
<FromGitter>
<fgimian> 👋
<FromGitter>
<eliasjpr> 🐃
<FromGitter>
<eliasjpr> :)
<FromGitter>
<fgimian> hahahaha
<FromGitter>
<fgimian> seeya guys 😄
<FromGitter>
<faustinoaq> > If you have any questions, please ask on this thread. We'll try to answer them in the live session :)
<FromGitter>
<faustinoaq> I think you should publish your question here ^^
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<FromGitter>
<Blacksmoke16> @faustinoaq whats the status of your scry thing for Intellij?
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<mech422>
Is there a 'recommended' library for parsing sub-command style command lines? so far clim, admiral, and commander are the ones I've looked at...
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<FromGitter>
<Blacksmoke16> is it possible to compile a binary on Linux to run on mac/windows?
<FromGitter>
<Blacksmoke16> i know you can do --cross-compile --target but not super familiar with how that works
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<FromGitter>
<Blacksmoke16> nvm i re read the docs and found part i was missing
<FromGitter>
<Blacksmoke16> for mac at least
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<FromGitter>
<reiswindy> I don't think there's a "recommended" one, but Clim worked well enough for me.
<mech422>
FromGitter: actually - that's what I ended up going with - still seems to be developed, and the configuration was straightforward
<mech422>
reiswindy: actually - that's what I ended up going with - still seems to be developed, and the configuration was straightforward
<mech422>
reiswindy: it also supports a 'required' flag for options, which the others didn't seem to
<FromGitter>
<bcardiff> @faustinoaq @eliasjpr , I like how you feel about a gold mine. 😄 . About what is good enough, for me is about reaching a stable point in the semantics of the syntax. But also there is a lot of intereset in the parallism story. Feel free to ask some questions for tuesday Q&A so we can have some follow ups on this.
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<FromGitter>
<sdogruyol> > the Crystal Core team is sitting on top of a Gold mine and still looking at the horizon ⏎ I really agree with you. Currently, we're building the foundations to dig up the gold :)