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<FromGitter>
<girng> damn `File.read("/proc/stat").lines.first[5..-1].split(' ').map` sorcery. soo cooool
<FromGitter>
<girng> @j8r i upvote n star, thank youuu
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<FromGitter>
<bararchy> @j8r Thanks for the great work! ⏎ I'm testing now and will merge
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<FromGitter>
<bew> hehe offtopic, I managed to make a urxvt extension to use the mouse wheel to scroll in man pages (by simulating pressing up/down arrows), I'm so happy :P
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<FromGitter>
<girng> =]
<FromGitter>
<girng> i'm happy you are happy
<FromGitter>
<oprypin> @bew works by default in Konsole
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<FromGitter>
<bew> nice ;)
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<FromGitter>
<mardab> Heyyy
<FromGitter>
<girng> Good morning!!!
<FromGitter>
<mardab> I'm confused whether to go for ruby or crystal
<FromGitter>
<girng> Crystal
<FromGitter>
<girng> 100%
<FromGitter>
<girng> What are you creating?
<FromGitter>
<mardab> I see so many syntax similiarities
<FromGitter>
<mardab> crystal is definitely faster than ruby
<FromGitter>
<mardab> although ruby dev
<FromGitter>
<mardab> Started doing llvm version as well
<FromGitter>
<mardab> So, which to choose?
<FromGitter>
<mardab> @girng I've been to rails
<FromGitter>
<mardab> Demo
<FromGitter>
<mardab> Thought i could use some of that "make this faster"
<FromGitter>
<mardab> Things*
<FromGitter>
<mardab> Even github is on ruby on both sides
<FromGitter>
<mardab> But i'm c++ guy myself, so
<FromGitter>
<girng> im a nodejs guy
<FromGitter>
<mardab> Also i think this chat is broken
<FromGitter>
<girng> i started my transition a month ago to crystal
<FromGitter>
<girng> couldn't be happier
<FromGitter>
<girng> if you know c++ already you'd be happy with crystal speeds imo
<FromGitter>
<girng> very nice n easy for networking stuff too
<FromGitter>
<mardab> how is the pa
<FromGitter>
<mardab> ckage environment?
<FromGitter>
<mardab> Speaking of which
<FromGitter>
<mardab> @girng how hard it is to learn node?
<Vexatos>
Don't bother if you don't have to >-<
<FromGitter>
<girng> @mardab i grew up fiddling around with javascript so it was pretty easy
<FromGitter>
<girng> but, honestly, no point in learning or even using it now.. and that's coming from someone who is converting an entire game server in nodejs to crystal
<FromGitter>
<girng> sooo many better options out there
<FromGitter>
<lppedd> @girng thanks anyway. Windows has a huge userbase, hope support will come fast
<FromGitter>
<j8r> @bararchy next step:
<FromGitter>
<j8r> mem and cpu for PIDs :-)
<FromGitter>
<girng> @lppedd i was the same a couple months ago. i am a religious win7 user. have been beta in 2008. almost a decde. but i gave it up because for WSL in windows 10
<FromGitter>
<girng> all just so i can utilize CRYSTAL, i LOVE it!
<FromGitter>
<girng> Definitely worth it my friend
<FromGitter>
<bararchy> @j8r Interesting :)
<FromGitter>
<bararchy> btw, I'm not against moving the Hardware repo to the Crystal community organization
<FromGitter>
<girng> @lppedd i'm converting my old gameserver code that was written in nodejs when i was in college
<FromGitter>
<girng> it's a mess, callbacks, promise waterfalls ALL OVER
<FromGitter>
<girng> i don't like it at all, and @sdogruyol websocket benchmark is miles ahead of nodejs
<FromGitter>
<lppedd> @girng I'm not really a fan of Javascript so for me you're doing an awesome thing hahaha ⏎ I develop utility software using Windows API so that's why I asked about Windows support. I'm currently using C++
<FromGitter>
<lppedd> @girng which editor are you using?
<FromGitter>
<girng> @lppedd i see, ok that's a diff ballgame and completely out of my league and fully understand why you want full win support
<FromGitter>
<girng> praise to @faustinoaq without him i wouldn't be here
<FromGitter>
<j8r> @lppedd if you dev on/for Windows, have you considered a language in the .NET framework like C#?
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<FromGitter>
<lppedd> @j8r Sure, but it carries it's runtime, which is not that small. And I don't like the language. There is a tool released by Microsoft itself to produce fully compiled native libreries with C# but I don't want to use it. ⏎ I'm a Java developer and my work over the Windows platform is part time.
<FromGitter>
<j8r> That's strange because C# is quite to Java - you'll be at home
<FromGitter>
<j8r> Sorry, it send the text when paster on gitter mobile :-(
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<FromGitter>
<girng> i tried c# but stopped bcz my left wrist hurt after holding pressing the shift key all the time, didn't seem fair
<FromGitter>
<girng> just imo
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<FromGitter>
<lppedd> @j8r It's quite similar for sure but I can't get used it. I worked full time a couple months developing WCF services and I didn't like it and Visual Studio. You read, I don't like Visual Studio. Maybe I'm too much used to Eclipse and IntelliJ
<FromGitter>
<Qwerp-Derp> what do you guys think of the markup language? it looks terrible but i have no idea on how to improve it
<FromGitter>
<Qwerp-Derp> it's for my package, hedron
<FromGitter>
<Qwerp-Derp> i want to make a markup and that's what i have so far, it's an awful example
<FromGitter>
<girng> i say put it in a crystal struct
<FromGitter>
<girng> with JSON.mapping
<FromGitter>
<Qwerp-Derp> ???
<FromGitter>
<Qwerp-Derp> wait so you're suggesting i make it json instead?
<FromGitter>
<girng> not sure, but json is prob easier to read iuno :P
<FromGitter>
<Qwerp-Derp> @girng but the thing is, json isn't suitable for markup
<FromGitter>
<Qwerp-Derp> neither is yaml, that's why i didn't choose those two
<FromGitter>
<girng> hmmmm
<FromGitter>
<Qwerp-Derp> and i'm planning to do something similar to react (i.e. inject raw markup into crystal code), so i need a markup that contrasts well with Crystal itself
<FromGitter>
<j8r> @bararchy moving to `crystal-community/hardware` would be nice! I plan to bother you with my PRs this next weeks :-D
<FromGitter>
<lppedd> Still here. I just read this "we'll never get "fully complete" since we can't implement fork()". What does this mean when talking about Concurrency on Windows?
<FromGitter>
<lppedd> (I mean, what is the meaning of this message)
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<FromGitter>
<j8r> I'm wondering how Go solves this...
<FromGitter>
<sdogruyol> @j8r they've literally wrote down everything from scratch..
<FromGitter>
<sdogruyol> rewrote*
<FromGitter>
<j8r> @sdogruyol to implement an UN*X-like `fork` call in Windows?!
<FromGitter>
<sdogruyol> I don't know the exact details..maybe they don't have it
<FromGitter>
<sdogruyol> my point is that they've endless resources to tackle the hardest problems and have their own way
<FromGitter>
<j8r> This helps a lot
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<FromGitter>
<straight-shoota> @lppedd Concurrency has nothing to do with being able to fork
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<FromGitter>
<straight-shoota> Crystal's concurrency shouldn't have any issues on Windows once it's implemented
<FromGitter>
<straight-shoota> @Qwerp-Derp I don't think XML is generally bad for this, don't let yourself be distracted because everyone thinks you should use some hipster markup style
<FromGitter>
<straight-shoota> XML obviously has issues but for some use cases it can work pretty nice.
<FromGitter>
<straight-shoota> it's just been overused for things it isn't good at
<FromGitter>
<straight-shoota> QML might be worth a consideration for you, I think it's really nice.
<FromGitter>
<schoening> Is the | key easy to type on American keyboards? Blocks are a nightmare to type on a Danish / Norwegian Mac keyboard :p
<FromGitter>
<bararchy> for me it's above the Enter, quite easy to get to
<FromGitter>
<schoening> Must be nice.. I have to type right command or ctrl key (cant remember coz I swapped their functionality) and 7 so for every | I have to move my hands around! I probably have not noticed an easier way, good thing there are block code completions tho
<crystal-gh>
[crystal] Sija opened pull request #5998: Adds ability to use custom separators in CSV.build (master...fix-5987) https://git.io/vpZeZ
<FromGitter>
<damianham> how can I create this ⏎ ⏎ ```@proc_responses = Hash(String, Proc).new``` ⏎ ⏎ I this error : can't use Proc(T, R) as generic type argument yet, use a more specific type ... [https://gitter.im/crystal-lang/crystal?at=5adf373562316e0505f4cfaf]
<FromGitter>
<damianham> yeah just found that out - thanks.
<FromGitter>
<lppedd> @straight-shoota Thanks. I had to look at the fork function to understand what it does
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<crystal-gh>
[crystal] straight-shoota opened pull request #6001: (WIP) Refactor HTTP::Client to use a transport (master...jm/feature/http-client-transport) https://git.io/vpZzp
<FromGitter>
<bararchy> @j8r Can't transfer the repo to crystal-community as I don't have the permissions to create a repo there
<FromGitter>
<bararchy> maybe someone like @hugoabonizio or @veelenga can help
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<FromGitter>
<hugoabonizio> @bararchy probably the best option is to add you as a member of crystal-community and then you can transfer the repo
<FromGitter>
<hugoabonizio> I'm not an owner so I don't have the permission to add members
<FromGitter>
<bararchy> I guess we shell wait for @veelenga , maybe he can temporary join me as admin, I'll pass the repo, and then he can take my admin away
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<FromGitter>
<hugoabonizio> let's wait some time, if he's busy you can transfer the repo to me and then I transfer it to the organization and add you as admin collaborator of the repo
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<FromGitter>
<veelenga> @bararchy @hugoabonizio one minute :)
<FromGitter>
<veelenga> invitation has been sent.
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<FromGitter>
<bararchy> @j8r done, it's under crystal-community now, a much better house for such a generic project :)
<FromGitter>
<j8r> @bararchy nice! You are still the maintainer, to review my future PRs?
<FromGitter>
<bararchy> I think so :) I'll try and add some support for number of running processes , number of cores, get power usage , GPU, etc..
<FromGitter>
<bararchy> We might get to a stage where we can do `htop` using Crystal :)
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<FromGitter>
<j8r> Would be AWESOME :-D
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<FromGitter>
<iceygelo_twitter> hey everyone, ruby dev here finding more about crystal
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<FromGitter>
<iceygelo_twitter> quick question to the core team, why isnt crystal compatible to ruby? is would be awesome if we can translate thos gem libraries to shards
<FromGitter>
<j8r> Exploiting `/proc/cpuinfo` will not be hard, but CPU usage for PIDs won't be as easy
<FromGitter>
<iceygelo_twitter> it would* those*
<FromGitter>
<iceygelo_twitter> you know like how kotlin is compatible to java? crystal should be like that to ruby
<FromGitter>
<j8r> @iceygelo_twitter simply because compatible = equal to Ruby = no breaking improvements
<FromGitter>
<j8r> They are not the same techs behind, they compile to bytecodes that runs on a JVM
<FromGitter>
<iceygelo_twitter> @everdev i have no idea as im just learning this too having background in ruby. its great to see different backgrounds coming here. How did you find out about Crystal
<FromGitter>
<j8r> @iceygelo_twitter if you have a block/method that ends with an `end`, just add `rescue`and/or`ensure` before the `end`. If no block, you need to create one with `begin`
<FromGitter>
<everdev> I think someone wrote a blog post about in being close to Go in terms of speed, but prettier syntax (which I agree with). Go is fun if you want to be explicit about everything, but it also makes it more tedious. I like how Crystal has more core features so I don't have to reinvent the wheel every time
<FromGitter>
<straight-shoota> @everdev In Crystal you're typically raising exceptions instead of returning errors. But there are of course use cases where you don't wan't to raise on error but just return `nil`. It's not common to return an error, though.
<FromGitter>
<straight-shoota> It's very typical to define a raising and non-raising variant of a method, where the non-raising has a ? suffix. For example `Hash#[]` and `Hash#[]?`. The first one raises a KeyError if the key is missing, the second just returns `nil`.
<FromGitter>
<straight-shoota> So this is a simple and easy way to try to do a method and fail without much noise and overhead of raising and rescuing an error.
<FromGitter>
<straight-shoota> And in general, that approach is much less verbose than Go, where literally *every* method call that might return an error needs to check and bubble up the received error.
<FromGitter>
<straight-shoota> although, it depends on the usage.
<FromGitter>
<straight-shoota> you could just let the method return `nil` if no user was found
<FromGitter>
<everdev> right with a getUser? method
<FromGitter>
<straight-shoota> in case you don't care about the exact reason
<FromGitter>
<straight-shoota> if you want to have both `getUser` and `getUser?`, than the latter. If you don't need a raising variant, you'd just let `getUser` return `nil`
<FromGitter>
<everdev> gotcha, thanks
<FromGitter>
<straight-shoota> but idiomatic Crystal are also snake cased method names `get_user` and `get_user?` ;)
<FromGitter>
<straight-shoota> and you don't need `return user`, the last expression of the method will implicitly be the return value
<FromGitter>
<j8r> Thanks for the explation about `case` / `includes` @straight-shoota 😊
<oprypin>
yeah pretty damn good macros here, the best i've seen actually
<oprypin>
i didnt know that they got it even better than Nim
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<oprypin>
the problem is that it's too hard to do (needs a Crystal interpreter)
<oprypin>
still though, macros in crystal are simpler and much more readable
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<FromGitter>
<straight-shoota> oprypin, would it really need a full interpreted?
<oprypin>
depends on ambition
<oprypin>
dont forget that you'd need the stdlib accessible there, for it to not be pointless, and stlib is full of *gasp* classes
<FromGitter>
<straight-shoota> but you don't need to actually execute all that code in macros, do you?
<FromGitter>
<straight-shoota> I'm not entirely family with elixir or similar macro systems
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<oprypin>
straight-shoota, the point is that you write normal Elixir code that produces Elixir code
<FromGitter>
<j8r> So this will adds features, but complexity if applied to Crystal. And what about performances?
<FromGitter>
<j8r> *compile time
<oprypin>
well it's certainly slower
<oprypin>
it's not happening anyway, and I'm honestly disappointed that @asterite keeps bringing up things that other languages do but crystal definitely isn't doing. it's just pointless and discouraging
<FromGitter>
<straight-shoota> ... and occasionally off-topic 😄
<FromGitter>
<straight-shoota> but hey, he's been deeply involved in making all the decisions that lead to the current state of Crystal. If he sees something nice in other languages, but realize it probably won't be possible to fit it into Crystal, it's quite natural to start questioning if it couldn't have been done differently
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<FromGitter>
<asterite> i'm just disappointed about the current state of crystal, and I can't see any way that it could change (I mean the language itself, the std can grow and change as much as you'd like, of course, avoiding the compiler bugs and limitations)
<FromGitter>
<asterite> i mean, not that it could change, that it could grow and evolve
<FromGitter>
<asterite> but maybe that's just me, I don't know. I don't see the compiler ever changing or evolving, and I'm pretty sure that's how it's going to be, forever, sorry
<FromGitter>
<asterite> i just wouldn't hold my hopes high for crystal
<FromGitter>
<asterite> probably better to invest the time in another language, unless the current state is good enough and fun for you (without hopes for anything getting fixed in the compiler)
<FromGitter>
<girng> :(
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<FromGitter>
<asterite> for the past months I tried to continue developing crystal by fixing a bug, or adding a feature, and it was always impossible. the compiler is a mess and only trivial bugs can be fixed at this point. My advice, as it has been for a long time now, is to rewrite the language from scratch, and slowly, with the whole language in mind. I know this "can't be done" because "there's no time", but of course there's
<FromGitter>
... time, it's still a lot until the black hole sun. And it's better to get things right, slowly, then continue the rushed experiment. Well, that's my advise.
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<FromGitter>
<asterite> Ah, well, I guess eventually someone crazy enough will show up with a rewrite
<FromGitter>
<non-binary> hey folks, does someone have a sec? I'm trying to build a Crystal/Kemal project on Travis CI to run the tests but it keeps starting the kemal server instead of running the tests? Repo link is https://github.com/non-binary/garnet/tree/nb-create-project Any help would be greatly appreciated :D
<FromGitter>
<jgaskins> @asterite These things you're saying are pointlessly negative. No language design gets everything right. Even Ruby was frustrating to use for years despite inspiration from three of the greatest programming languages known at the time (but hey, you could use threads on non-POSIX systems … yay). No modern language will get everything right, either. Every single programming language that currently exists is
<FromGitter>
... horrifically, fundamentally flawed from *someone's* perspective. If you don't like the way Crystal is headed and your criticism is being met with indifference, then maybe that's where your path from Crystal diverges, but dude, there is no excuse for the doom and gloom talk.
<FromGitter>
<jgaskins> @non-binary It looks like this line (https://github.com/non-binary/garnet/blob/nb-create-project/src/garnet.cr#L10) is your culprit. I think you you may need to extract that into a different file that only the web server process executes after loading your routes, and then your test loads the same files but *not* the file with `Kemal.run` in it. I'm not 100% sure on that, though. @sdogruyol confirm?
<FromGitter>
<non-binary> Thanks for responding @jgaskins! This may be it but I'm not sure. I've seen other Crystal/Kemal projects with that line at the end of the file and the tests run properly. Going to look back at them to make sure I'm not missing anything :thinking:
<FromGitter>
<jgaskins> @non-binary No worries. I'll double-check that real quick, too.
<FromGitter>
<sherjilozair> How do Nim and Crystal differ?
<FromGitter>
<jgaskins> @non-binary PR sent :-)
<FromGitter>
<non-binary> thank you!
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<FromGitter>
<Qwerp-Derp> @straight-shoota Yeah, I'm probably still going with XML, but the concern is that the syntax that I have currently just seems too bunched-up and noisy
<FromGitter>
<Qwerp-Derp> Like the way the tags are formatted could be reduced down a bit
<FromGitter>
<Qwerp-Derp> Yeah, QML actually does exactly what I want to do
<FromGitter>
<Qwerp-Derp> But I'm not sure whether to split the actual object structure of the UI and the styling up (like HTML and CSS), or make it like QML
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<FromGitter>
<straight-shoota> that depends on the context...
<FromGitter>
<straight-shoota> but for UI modeling I don't think it makes really sense to separate structure and design
<FromGitter>
<straight-shoota> HTML is a markup language for multimedia content, and it would be awkward to write styling details in every markup element
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<FromGitter>
<girng> @asterite please don't give up with crystal. i watched your talks and presentations and the way you and juan have introduced crystal to the programming world has been inspiring. the simple fact, someone can write a tcp server within a few lines of codes, and get a game server up and running within minutes, all with great performance is something that speaks volumes about POSITIVITY about the language. ⏎ ⏎
<FromGitter>
... im not a core contributor so i can't comment on the core development surrounding a "compiler", but it seems like to me, you really love crystal and just want it to get better to YOUR standard. the problem is, your bar is raised extremely high (because intelligent level is higher), compared to a random "crystal developer" like m ... [https://gitter.im/crystal-lang/crystal?at=5adfc3072b9dfdbc3ac69ed6]
<FromGitter>
<drosehn> @asterite is talking based on the experience of how difficult it is to work on the source code of the compiler to do something significantly novel. Given how much experience he has with working on the compiler, I doubt that he wants to make any comments which sound negative about the compiler, but he does have the most experience with actually *doing* that work.
<FromGitter>
<drosehn> I've been interested in programming languages for 40 years now, and I think one thing that most people don't appreciate is how much work it is to write a really good and useful compiler.
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