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<bricker>
ready for a silly question.... is there a built-in way to get an OpenStruct-style syntax but that raises NoMethodErrors instead of nil? I'm doing a simple enum
<[k->
a Struct?
<RickHull>
how do you want to access struct members?
<RickHull>
dot or brackets?
<bricker>
RickHull: Dots. I'm trying to replicate Java's enums, I know it's not idiomatic but I'm bored :P
<bricker>
So, CoolEnum.ListeItemA, CoolEnum.ListItemB
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<bricker>
I know there are 100 ways to do it besides Openstruct
<[k->
don't structs already provide those
<bricker>
yes but I think I'd have to define the struct somewhere before making an instance of it, that's what I'm trying to avoid
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<RickHull>
i think you can define it when you instantiate it
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<jdeen>
Hi there. I have a question about Yard documentation. I have a method like `def format_date(time = Time.now, precision: :day)` where precision can be :day, :month, :year. How do I document he `precision` parameter using Yard
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<jdeen>
This can have one of many options
<jdeen>
thanks in advance
<jdeen>
Hope you guys are having a wonderful evening
<jdeen>
Oh it was on top as an example, looks like it has to be general... @param format [Symbol] the format type, `:text` or `:html`
<jdeen>
he he
<jdeen>
sorry for the ping
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<RickHull>
i have a devops-y question, open-ended
<RickHull>
i've got apps that are logging to the filesystem, and they threaten to fill local disks
<RickHull>
i could do local logrotation, but i'm thinking that log shipping is the right approach
<RickHull>
i could do something really hacky right now like a stupid crontab entry to delete old logs
<RickHull>
am I a bad person for not implementing the hacky solution, in order that the pain increases to reach the threshold for implementing log shipping once and for all?
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<Ox0dea>
RickHull: Do you know for certain that you'll be able to absorb the requisite postage and delivery charges?
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<Ox0dea>
Do you intend to ship these logs internationally?
<RickHull>
no, a logstash instance per DC is the plan
<RickHull>
i.e. ship only across a LAN
<RickHull>
and logstash can aggressively drop log entries when it's near capacity
<RickHull>
FIFO
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<RickHull>
could be Apache Flume, btw. any fans?
<RickHull>
rsyslogd?
<RickHull>
also, for a let's say 100 machines logging to a central box
<RickHull>
any opinions on UDP logging, versus say 100 TCP connections with streaming writes
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<RickHull>
in my experience, i can write thousands of messages per sec to a TCP socket, if i'm not waiting on responses. possibly millions and beyond. hard to tell from a client perspective when a byte actually hits the network
<RickHull>
(of course it goes without saying that TCP connections have streaming writes. but not if you're in a req/resp mindset; for writing logs to a TCP socket, i would delimit messages by newlines softly)
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<RickHull>
i'm sure UDP has ultimately higher throughput
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<RickHull>
but i'd like to know when I'm missing log entries
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<RickHull>
and I think basic log streaming over TCP should be able to saturate available bandwidth as well as UDP
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<Ox0dea>
> mfw this isn't the collection of operators from every language combined
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<RickHull>
btw, noticing that parrot has lots of trac references. how crappy was the trac timing. right when svn starts to mature and needs an ecosystem, trac comes out and owns everything
<RickHull>
except for this little budding idea of a project called git
<bnagy>
not how copyright works, yo
<RickHull>
bnagy: if only the license writers would recognize it
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<Ox0dea>
WTFPL all the things!
<RickHull>
is the term of the copyright notice binding or not?
<RickHull>
if not, then why include it?
<bnagy>
it's not a term, it's a range
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<RickHull>
if so, then yeah, ur fukt
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<RickHull>
term, meaning period of time
<bnagy>
yes, I know
<bnagy>
it's not one
<RickHull>
what's the distinction?
<bnagy>
the 'term' of something is a start end, for me
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<RickHull>
sounds like a range, for mew
<RickHull>
er, me
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<bnagy>
(c) 2000 - 2005 is a range of years in which copyrighted work has been created
<RickHull>
i'd say it describes a term
<bnagy>
the term of the copyright is normal copyright
<bnagy>
ie long
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<RickHull>
good point
<RickHull>
so the declared range is the creation range, not the copyright protection range
<bnagy>
IANAL so I don't know wtf the range is supposed to do
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<bnagy>
all I know is the copyright starts from the creation date and goes until Disney changes the law
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<RickHull>
yep, that's my understanding
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<RickHull>
Ox0dea: i'd be a fan of WTFPL if it didn't raise more questions than it answered
<bnagy>
I guess it's just "multiple creation" or something like when you paint a picture it's done, but software is like you start on a canvas and every year you add or paint over new parts, and each of those works are (c)
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<RickHull>
bnagy: my ultimate critique targets IP as a whole
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<RickHull>
i'm a fan of IP creators
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<bnagy>
the really dumb thing imho is when people (c) but don't license
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<RickHull>
but i don't believe our IP regime or conceptual model is quite right
<bnagy>
well, for software anyway
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<[k->
copyright expires 70 years after creation
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<RickHull>
until Mickey dies again
<RickHull>
then it will be extended
<bnagy>
[k-: that's not the case
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<[k->
that's from what i know!
<bnagy>
ok well what you know is wrong
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<RickHull>
it's obviously subject to sovereign bounds
<[k->
or is it 70 years after the author died
<RickHull>
national laws, treaties, etc
<[k->
maybe it's 70 years in Singapore?
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<RickHull>
btw, my favorite fun game in the US, year-round these days, is trick-or-treaty?
<RickHull>
literally "hey guys i've had a bad experience with google, anyone else can confirm?"
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<[k->
that won't save you!
* [k-
hangs in conversation up on a wall
<Ox0dea>
[k-: I used their "imagine all the people" example and got dragons?
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<RickHull>
to my recollection, i had several solr error messages, verbatim within quotes, and got search results that did not include the quoted portions
<RickHull>
and in fact had highlighted alternate versions of my quoted portion
<RickHull>
(which I did not want; was not relevant)
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<RickHull>
that said, i'll happily shut up until i can repro
<Ox0dea>
The likelihood of PEBKAC seems extremely high, if you don't mind my saying so.
<[k->
Ox0dea: i got the song
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<RickHull>
don't disagree :)
<[k->
use the - search operator
<[k->
chain everything!
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<RickHull>
in frustration, i've done things like -"hate this no more" and +"please give it to me"
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<Ox0dea>
DDG bangs largely obviate the need for subtractive terms.
<RickHull>
i've used DDG in anger in response
<bnagy>
"error code -90" strips punctuation at least
<RickHull>
my sense was they are better in respecting the query, but worse in the results / ranking
<Ox0dea>
That's about the size of it.
<RickHull>
(only for the narrow queries that were frustrating me with google)
<Ox0dea>
For specialized queries, though, it's quite nice.
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<RickHull>
oh, DDG bangs, i missed the bangs part
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<RickHull>
having lots of trouble replicating the recalled behavior, FWIW
<RickHull>
it does appear to me that google.com is respecting quoted queries as expected
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<[k->
it's just your imagination
<RickHull>
that said, i my disappointment in google was infrequent and based on idiosyncratic queries
<[k->
although irb was giving me hell when i couldn't require anything
<RickHull>
[k-: that's the tough part
<[k->
:o
<[k->
Rust 1.2 is out
<RickHull>
i have a very strong recollection of providing a query, and then a plausible replacement query (substituting for my own) ended up highlighted in the response
<RickHull>
my actual query was not present in the response
<RickHull>
[k-: where are you based out of? just curious if you don't mind
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<[k->
based out of isn't legal in my language parser
<[k->
what do you mean?
<RickHull>
well if i asked where are you, you might say lucerne or nyc
<RickHull>
traveling...
<RickHull>
what is your home location, as you define it?
<[k->
Singapore
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<RickHull>
ah, have you visited Borneo?
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<RickHull>
i am very interested in the region, historically. philippines, new guinea, singapore, indonesia, polynesia etc
<[k->
nope
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<RickHull>
myself i am based in conti-us
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<RickHull>
have never visited southern hemisphere (yet)
<RickHull>
(soon)
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<Ox0dea>
Singapore is in the Northern Hemisphere, for what that's worth.
<RickHull>
dang, how far?
<Ox0dea>
Not very.
<[k->
1 degree north
<[k->
and 22 minutes
<RickHull>
i think east asia is the new meta
<Ox0dea>
!xkcd 1560
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<RickHull>
you have cheap labor in proximity with extreme capitalism
<Ox0dea>
[k-: The first panel is practically oxymoronic in Singapore. :P
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<Ox0dea>
"One day [Learn You a Haskell] will be my retirement reading." -- PM Loong
<Ox0dea>
[k-: I have little trouble imagining how much you love that.
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<RickHull>
thank god he didn't invent `diff` amirite?
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<[k->
Over the years, Perl 6 has undergone several alterations in its direction. The introduction of concepts from Python and Ruby were early influences,[citation needed] but as the Pugs interpreter was written in the Haskell programming language, many functional programming influences were absorbed by the Perl 6 design team.[citation needed]
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<Ox0dea>
[k-: He also wrote `rn`.
<Ox0dea>
RickHull: ^
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<[k->
"Perl 6 is anything that passes the official test suite."[17]
<[k->
No implementation will be designated as the official Perl 6 implementation
<Ox0dea>
What could possibly go wrong?
<RickHull>
the pugs-haskell connection is the biggest thing (IMO) that gives legitimacy to the perl 6 project
<RickHull>
is parrot useful for anyone outside perl?
<[k->
Pugs used to be the most advanced implementation of Perl 6, but since mid 2007 it is mostly dormant (with updates made only to track the current version ofGHC). As of November 2014 Pugs is not being actively maintained.[20]
<[k->
what is even parrot
<RickHull>
srsly
<[k->
i answered your question
<RickHull>
ok so pugs has lost legitimacy
<RickHull>
does that cover your point?
<[k->
my $i = "25" + 10; # $i is 35
<[k->
RickHull i meant parrot
<RickHull>
i'd suggest that is a bad thing
<[k->
it is as bad as JavaScript
<RickHull>
[k-: honestly i can't keep up
<RickHull>
i have zero dogs in the Rakudo Pugs Perl 6 fight
<RickHull>
and whatever else nomenclatures are involved
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<RickHull>
Parrot etc
<[k->
they are just implementations
<RickHull>
i feel like that is the convenient fallback
<RickHull>
i.e. we can brush off any criticism because the C just targets an I
<RickHull>
and we can change the I at any point
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<[k->
i wasn't criticising
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<[k->
except the coercion part
<Ox0dea>
I've said before that Perl 6 will be stillborn.
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<baweaver>
Ox0dea: kinda like Python 3?
<Ox0dea>
Python 3 is dead?
<baweaver>
</troll>
<Ox0dea>
Oh.
<baweaver>
The joke is that Python 3 is at such an odd adoption rate
<RickHull>
python3 is the future and anyone who isn't on board is a dirty python-twoer
<Ox0dea>
"bfd" -- 99.9% of the software development community upon Perl 6's release
<baweaver>
some prick decided it was a good idea to switch up most of string output in 3, can't blame people for being annoyed
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<RickHull>
if you're not gonna fix it in 3, when are ya?
<[k->
haskell is the future
<[k->
haskell is love, Haskell is life
<RickHull>
elixir < haskell ?
<RickHull>
elixir > haskell !
<[k->
your face
<RickHull>
mfw
<[k->
i always laugh when i say your face
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<RickHull>
i myself chuckled upon your utterance
<[k->
it's always funny to imagine someone else's face wrongly
<RickHull>
your face wrongly is somewhere near as hilarious as my face wrongly
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<RickHull>
not nearly as hilariously as interpreting mwf as my face wrongly
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<RickHull>
mfw, even
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<[spoiler]>
What thread safety? $1 isn't theadsafe at all (IIRC, too lazy to look now). I'd rather use something like `(?<vowel>[aeiou])/ =~ "hello"; vowel` if I had to resort to is (but there are better ways)
<[spoiler]>
Oh well, it's good to know, but I'm not too happy about this "deviating" behaviour. But I suppose it does make sense, since $<N> is common for backreferences when using regexp
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<[spoiler]>
Ox0dea: Although, in rbx at least (cba looking at MRI implementation now), $~ & friends aren't thread-local, they're scope-local (which is even better for what they're intended, to be fair)
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<Ox0dea>
[spoiler]: I don't think it's particularly "devious", but it's slightly regrettable that they look like globals.
<Ox0dea>
Still, better than introducing another sigil, in my opinion.
<[spoiler]>
Ox0dea: that is what I mean by devious (maybe it's a harsh choice of words, lol).
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<[spoiler]>
Ox0dea: I think this shouldn't exist at all. =~ could return a MatchData object and then you could use that
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<Ox0dea>
> These global variables are thread-local and method-local variables.
<[spoiler]>
oh yeah found it
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<Ox0dea>
drbrain: In case I'm missing something, can you confirm that "scope-local" is more accurate than "method-local" there?
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<[spoiler]>
it should definitely be scope-local
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<Ox0dea>
They're essentially completely indistinguishable from local variables.
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<Ox0dea>
Except, of course, for the terrifically confusing sigil.
<[spoiler]>
yep
<[spoiler]>
and the fact that they're implicitly defined as nil
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<[spoiler]>
(unless actually set)
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<Ox0dea>
Right. $ for $pecial, then.
<[spoiler]>
LOL
<Ox0dea>
^_^
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<[spoiler]>
This is actually cool in a way, because when they're defined in a sub-scope they propagate to the outer scope (so using =~ inside a block body)
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<shevy>
long live ruby \o/
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<[k->
propaganda here doesnt help?
<[k->
Spread haskell!
<[k->
Haskell for all the things! \o/
<[k->
now you've done it, shevy
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<shevy>
haskell requires like a 300 mb download
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<[k->
just download it already!
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<shevy>
that's about 50x as much ruby code than I have written in 10 years!
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<[k->
that means your ruby code cant do much then ooooo buuuuurn
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<mdw>
hey guys, I'm trying to write a simple regex that looks for new additions to a diff, but I can't figure out how to stop it from matching the first line in the diff (the +++ a/ line)
<ruboto>
mdw, You probably don't mean to exclude, but not everyone relates to being "one of the guys". Maybe consider using "folks", "y'all" or "everyone" instead?
<jhass>
[k-: I don't think maths has ! generally defined, nor precedence rules for it
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<delta_>
thanks
<bnagy>
[k-: draw the table?
<Ox0dea>
I think the intent behind and answer to [k-'s question are both pretty obvious. Pedantry is lame, and two-value truth tables are child's play.
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<jhass>
Ox0dea: why don't you answer then? Because I don't get it
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<[k->
the results are the same :o
<Ox0dea>
jhass: You don't understand truth tables and the NOT operation?
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<jhass>
I do
<bnagy>
[k-: _b
<Ox0dea>
Then whence your confusion?
<jhass>
I've never seen ! in boolean algebra
<bnagy>
eh?
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<[k->
i'll get a not sign then :(
<shevy>
! is so powerful
<shevy>
it's like saying no
<bnagy>
I don't know instantly if I can prove it though
<jhass>
yeah ¬ is not
<[k->
¬
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<shevy>
is this unicode
<jhass>
sure
<[k->
no
<[k->
its your face!
<Ox0dea>
jhass: What prevented you treating [k-'s ! as ¬?
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<[k->
jhass has strict mode on
<shevy>
[k- I can see my face just fine but this unicode thing above looks like an "A" with a "-"
<jhass>
not remembering if ¬ has any precedence rules ;P
<Ox0dea>
It's a unary operator.
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<[k->
shevy: it is the not sign
<bnagy>
well I guess the braces made the precedence clear, no?
<jhass>
and I wouldn't be surprised if there's an actual programming language with perverted precedence rules for !
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<jhass>
where the answer would be yes
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<[k->
i was talking about the result
<[k->
not if they are the same
<Ox0dea>
Erm... adding `!==` to parse.y was alarmingly easy.
<bnagy>
stahp
<Ox0dea>
I'm doing it.
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<[k->
Wikipedia says: x ≠ y ⇔ !(x = y)
<Ox0dea>
Still gotta get an intuition for what MRI calls "basic ops".
<[k->
so, it must be true!
<[k->
wait did i get that wrong
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* [k-
goes back to square one
<bnagy>
no that's fine I think
<bnagy>
just that !a = b and a = !b are both a != b
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<[k->
ah yes, i dont have to !(a==b) anymore? (a != b exists, i know)
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<bnagy>
there's some law of associativity or something probably
<bnagy>
that I guess I knew 25 years ago
<bnagy>
now I just draw truth tables :|
<Ox0dea>
∀ n ∈ ℝ: 10ₙ = n₁₀
<bnagy>
what's subscript 10?
<Ox0dea>
Decimal?
<bnagy>
oh, base
<Ox0dea>
It's strange that zero and one are the only "undefined" radices.
<Ox0dea>
Out of all the reals.
<Ox0dea>
Seems inelegant not to define them such that that equation holds. :/
<Mon_Ouie>
Everything works as expected (i.e.in the same way that it would if ab and c weren't sets but, say, integers)
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<peterhil>
Of course I guess there is some other way to do what I want to do, but conceptually I have a set of collections, and I want to remove all subsets.
<peterhil>
Ah, I see. The syntax makes it hard to follow that I have the same number of levels...
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<peterhil>
Thanks, I'll update the bug report.
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<harushimo>
just quick question to the ruby community: Can someone tell me the difference betwen rbenv and rvm?
<harushimo>
Its more for my education
<saddad>
rvm does more stuff
<pontiki>
both are ruby and gem set management systems. they have vastly different approaches to the problem.
<harushimo>
That is what I thought
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<jhass>
a third popular choice is chruby
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<harushimo>
I was at workshop and someone telling that ruby devs prefer rbenv versuses rvm. I didn't that was true. I agree with point, pontiki
<rippa>
never heard about it
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<Ox0dea>
harushimo: rvm "patches" shell builtins, which is something I'd expect a virus to do.
<pontiki>
harushimo: everyone has opinions
<jhass>
tbh I think rbenv is the least used one
<harushimo>
right
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<havenwood>
harushimo: RVM is over ten-thousand lines of shell while rbenv (and it's ruby installer, ruby-build) are several thousand lines.
<pontiki>
i don't know how you'd tell
<havenwood>
harushimo: +1 chruby and ruby-install
<harushimo>
okay. thanks everyone
<harushimo>
i always learn something new out of this channel
<pontiki>
of the projects i've worked on with teams, they're about equal between rbenv and rvm
<havenwood>
harushimo: RVM supports more systems for installing Ruby. I'm biased, but for a simple installer ruby-install has some real wins over ruby-build.
<pontiki>
on one, the dev team used rvm and the devops team used rbenv
<havenwood>
pontiki: I'm seeing a lot of chruby these days too! :D
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<harushimo>
okay
<pontiki>
havenwood: i only see it here and on my projects -- it seems like no one at work uses it
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<havenwood>
pontiki: Probably more common in newly created projects. I'm sure plenty of folk don't have enough reason to switch or are actually using RVM freatures.
<pontiki>
when i'm running our local rails newbie meetup i try to remain completely neutral, all have good and bad points
<pontiki>
havenwood: i am *sure* that's so, as that's the way it is for most tooling
<havenwood>
pontiki: There is only One True Switcher. How dare you blaspheme?
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<pontiki>
havenwood: i am *made* of blasphemy
* havenwood
mutters something about vi and emacs
<pontiki>
my daughter the iconoclast inherited it from somewhere, obviously
<harushimo>
thanks for answering my questions. I hope I didn't offend anyone. like i said, its more for learning the differences.
<pontiki>
i fully support learning
<havenwood>
The first rule of Ruby switchers is to not use a Ruby switcher unless you need to switch Rubies.
<pontiki>
i also fully support practice and practical comparison
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<havenwood>
pontiki: ~100 lines of shell is about the right amount of shell. :)
<pontiki>
havenwood: might even be too much...
<havenwood>
pontiki: touche
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<pontiki>
by the time i get a script up to about 50 lines i start to think "DAMMIT! i could have done this faster and more expressively in perl/ruby/python..."
<pontiki>
then on the flip side, i've taken a 6 line bash script and turned it into 500 lines of ruby, too :D
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<havenwood>
pontiki: yeah, it can be surprisingly concise for some tasks
<eam>
my rule is: no branching, no variables
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<shevy>
no code
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<gambl0re>
is there a site where they have a live ruby console?
<ruboto>
gambl0re, Pry, the better IRB. Includes easy object inspection via `ls`, `history`, docs view with `?`, source view with `$` and syntax highlighting, among other features (see `help` for more). It can also be used for easy debugging by putting `binding.pry` directly in your source code. Visit https://pryrepl.org/ or get it now with: gem install pry pry-doc
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<gambl0re>
irb is not good for multiline code
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<Ox0dea>
gambl0re: Please elaborate.
<gambl0re>
its not good for writing code more than one line
<gambl0re>
its confusing
<Ox0dea>
gambl0re: Are you aware that you can write your Ruby scripts in, y'know, a file?
<gambl0re>
in irb?
<Oka>
._.
<gambl0re>
i dont know what you're talking about...
<gambl0re>
doesnt matter though. the site oka provided is good enough
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<havenwood>
gambl0re: You can go back and forth between Pry and a text editor.
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<shevy>
gambl0re multiline irb works fine, I don't understand why you fail at that
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<dorei>
hello
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<miah>
gambl0re: irb is for interpreting and executing your code
<miah>
you can store your code in a text file, and load it into irb/pry
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<miah>
you can also just execute your code directly with ruby once its in a file
<miah>
(or ruby -p but i'll ignore most of that for now)
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<jasonbeale>
hi - if I'm accessing a value using the following code: self.new_instance_class.some_method ............how do I test the response of the "some_method" in rspec?
<hays>
no PEP 8 equivalent eh
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<jasonbeale>
I get the code to work, I just don't know how to do the test
<jhass>
what's new_instance_class ?
<jasonbeale>
a nested class
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<jhass>
can't be, self.new_instance_class makes it a method call
<jasonbeale>
nested instantiated class*
<jhass>
I think you need to show some code
<jhass>
ideally without fake names
<jasonbeale>
ok, one moment
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<ght>
Quesstion: As far as execution speed, is a long case statement with many options slow? I'm trying to speed up my app and wondering if a long switch statement is slow, as in, Ruby evaluates each potential option.
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<ght>
Another question: Is there a way to combine a split statement so you do'nt have to have an intermediatry array, when you know you want the first element of the array returned?
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<Ox0dea>
Although you might want to use \S instead of \w.
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<ght>
Interesting, so I could use regex instead of .split() to grab all chars up to the space in the string?
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<Ox0dea>
That's exactly right.
<ght>
Perfect, thank you Ox0dea.
<shevy>
"In order for tools on your system to find your locally installed copy of DocBook, you must map these public identifiers into system identifiers"
<Ox0dea>
ght: Happy to help.
<shevy>
what a fancy description for saying that they have to point towards local files/filenames
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<lannonbr>
people complaining and not just using what they feel like
<jhass>
?best shevy
<ruboto>
shevy, "Best" and "better" are subjective. Try to use a different term.
<jhass>
\o/
<shevy>
which language is more useful - ruby or python
<jhass>
useful for what?
<lannonbr>
depends on the individual, shevy
<shevy>
to program
<jhass>
program what?
<Ox0dea>
shevy: Python. Now /part. :P
<shevy>
jhass programs
<jhass>
what kind of programs?
<shevy>
Ox0dea why Python?
<shevy>
jhass only the sky is the limit
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<Ox0dea>
shevy: Well, what is it that has hitherto prevented you from learning Python?
<jhass>
shevy: so nothing interstellar? Ruby should be fine then
<shevy>
lannonbr yeah but I am trying to find a definition that would be agnostic of an individual's opinion since that will be biased
<shevy>
Ox0dea time is one big reason
<Ox0dea>
But what made you pick Ruby?
<shevy>
jhass probably not with the current speed of ruby and python :)
<shevy>
Ox0dea matz
<Ox0dea>
So you hate Guido?
<shevy>
Ox0dea what made you pick ruby?
<shevy>
Ox0dea why should I hate Guido?
<Ox0dea>
Blocks, I guess.
<shevy>
blocks are quite nice
<Ox0dea>
So many little things since the beginning, but blocks were what initially caught my eye.
<jhass>
shevy: what's better, a bandsaw or a bench saw?
<shevy>
jhass bench saw hands down
<jhass>
that's the kind of question you ask
<shevy>
not at all
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<jhass>
yes it is
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<shevy>
you compare a static tool with a flexible programming language
<jhass>
you try to define a tool generically superior to another
<jhass>
but they're just different tools
<shevy>
of course because there are measurements possible that won't be influenced by personal bias
<Ox0dea>
shevy: So measure?
<jhass>
for specific usecases yes
<shevy>
Ox0dea measure how?
<Ox0dea>
> there are measurements
<shevy>
yep
<havenwood>
you challenge my car to a horserace?
<shevy>
I did not say that I can do so?
<Ox0dea>
havenwood: Is your other car Epona?
<jhass>
but you won't believe that your question is pretty much BS either
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<shevy>
my question is great
<jhass>
it's on a premise you refuse to prove
<jhass>
and I say that premise is wrong
<shevy>
it's your assumption that my question is not great, however had you are not required to answer it
<jhass>
so you're not going to prove your premise?
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<shevy>
so you are not answering my question?
<jhass>
I did answer your question, by saying it's irrelevant because your premise is wrong
<shevy>
you dodged it completely
<havenwood>
shevy: Why do we need both Italian and Portuguese? Which is better? Shall we deprecate one?
<shevy>
havenwood yes! go english!
<jhass>
I think you dodge any argument to it rather
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<shevy>
I think you don't want to answer it
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<havenwood>
shevy: Is Italian or Portuguese better for poetry? Opera?
<jhass>
you already said that, see my previous answer to that
<shevy>
havenwood italian
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<havenwood>
shevy: Okay, so Ruby is better. Question answered!
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<havenwood>
shevy: (If you aesthetically prefer it and its tools line up with your needs.)
<shevy>
yeah that is one possible reason
<jhass>
which can be said about any language, hence mmy point in refusing your premise that one could be generically "better"
<havenwood>
shevy: There are cultural attitude differences between the communities. Pythonistas prefer to not write any code until it's perfect while Rubyists go ahead and write every possible solution knowing that one must then be perfect.
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<Ox0dea>
>> 3.4.3 > 2.3
<ruboto>
Ox0dea # => /tmp/execpad-e2e34b7f3811/source-e2e34b7f3811:2: unexpected fraction part after numeric literal ...check link for more (https://eval.in/414069)
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<Ox0dea>
I'm retarded.
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<Ox0dea>
shevy: Anyhow, that should be sufficient to answer your question.
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<shevy>
Ox0dea you already mentioned one aspect: blocks
<Ox0dea>
shevy: Yeah, but look at that version number.
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<shevy>
3.4.3 is not a thing
<shevy>
not even in python :)
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<shevy>
Interesting to compare the error messages... ruby says "unexpected fraction part after numeric literal", and uses an arrow to point at the last dot; python says "SyntaxError: invalid syntax" and points at the last number with an arrow
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<Ox0dea>
shevy: Erm, it's the current stable Python release?
<Ox0dea>
if : unless :: while : until :: when : ?
<shevy>
dunno, I tried on python-3.5.0a4 and python-2.7.10, and ruby-2.2.2p95. I am so glad to no longer have to use older rubies
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<Ox0dea>
shevy: Yes, I conceded that I made a syntactic mistake, but the point remains.
<havenwood>
shevy: 2.2.2+, hooah!
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<Ox0dea>
shevy: You use an alpha release of Python but not Ruby?
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<shevy>
it's official!
<Ox0dea>
Hey, gals! What would you say is the "opposite" of "when"?
<Ox0dea>
I've added !== to Ruby. ^_^
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<Ox0dea>
Gonna need an opposite of "when" for "reverse" case statements.
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<shevy>
how about "unwhen"
<shevy>
or "notwhen"?
<Ox0dea>
Could be better.
<shevy>
or ... "before"
<shevy>
giving names to things is hard
<shevy>
Ox0dea what happens to !!==
<havenwood>
Ox0dea: when or then?
<Ox0dea>
shevy: That's still a syntax error.
<havenwood>
Ox0dea: oh, i see
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<shevy>
you could use "nehw" for the reverse when. That would keep in line with the bash tradition case/esac ... if/fi ...
<Ox0dea>
Stupid `od` breakin' the symmetries.
<Ox0dea>
It's a shit compared to `xxd` anyway.
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<jhass>
case; unless is invalid, so just make it valid?
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<Ox0dea>
That'll be tricky, but it does seem the best approach.
<Ox0dea>
I'll run the !== proposal first, I think.
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<Ox0dea>
`===` gets bytecode-compiled to an optimized instruction. :/ Anybody know how to insns.def?