adrien changed the topic of #ocaml to: Discussions about the OCaml programming language | http://www.ocaml.org | OCaml 4.02.2 announced http://ocaml.org/releases/4.02.html | Try OCaml in your browser: http://try.ocamlpro.com | Public channel logs at http://irclog.whitequark.org/ocaml
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<Drup> rgrinberg: does the * vs ** really changes anything in merlin ?
<Drup> I always though it was the same
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<smondet> also rgrinberg: you signed up for the ocaml meetup, are you around NYC?
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<Drup> ggole: for once, I'm doing a data structure with big invariants in the middle and not a single GADT
<Drup> it's relaxing
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<ggole> Heh, I bet
<Drup> (the invariants are carefully documented, otherwise it wouldn't be relaxing at all)
<ggole> A function check_invariants is much more workable, really
<ggole> You can put arbitrarily precise checks in, rip them out, etc without much fuss
<Drup> ggole: I have mostly that, yes
<Drup> but I prefer to have a version in english too
<Drup> I really miss a good framework for graph transformation though
<ggole> Graphs are tricky
<Drup> describing local transformations in ocamlgraph is a bit akward, with all the re-wiring
<Drup> ggole: graphs are cool, I like them a lot
<Drup> and I have pretty dot pictures
<Drup> (and that makes me very happy)
<Drup> I should write all my algorithm in term of graph transformations, so I could write them graphically
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<ggole> Graph pattern matching?
<Drup> yes
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<Drup> There are lots of paper/software on the subject
<ggole> Seems like that would be fun to compile efficiently
<Drup> Well, compiling to the code I write currently is trivial :D
<Drup> It's very complicated to do something that is more clever than "just try everywhere"
<ggole> Mmm, usually you have a certain amount of structure (like the ordering of arguments in ADTs)
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<kuttifunk> Anyone point me in the right direction using sql with ocaml? Pgocaml seems to be ok, but i stumbled over the need for db connection at compile time. Are there any other packages still maintained?
<Kakadu> macaque
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<funk> afaics macaque uses pgocaml, so the same problems. or not?
<Drup> It uses the lower layers, which doesn't need the connection at compile time
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<funk> thx. so any pointers to good examples? the ocsigen side is overkill for a small brained ocaml noob.
<funk> ocsigen site :-)
<ely-se> lol, how can you screw up your design so bad that you need a DB connection at compile-time
<funk> ely-se: well... at least there is some ocaml library for sql.. what can you say...
<ely-se> "Other well known languages in the ML family include OCaml, F#, and Visual Basic."
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<funk> i am on a journey into fp. completely new to me i fell in love with the concepts. i want to choose the language that fits best for my purpose and even more for my programming guts.
<funk> i saw f#, scala, haskell and ocaml and ocaml is best for my personal tast. but it lacks documentation and libraries like sql. hard to begin with.
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<funk> still ocaml looks best for me. scala should be the way to go, but i dont like the brackets, parens and class stuff.
<pippijn> scala is great
<pippijn> the best
<pippijn> also, scala is horrible
<pippijn> it's all relative
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<funk> f# looks good, but its build on .net and mono and im going to use linux.
<pippijn> functional programming in scala is very expensive
<ely-se> "i want to choose the language that fits best for my purpose
<ely-se> .. which is? :p
<funk> pippijn: relative, yes of course
<pippijn> funk: .net works fine on linux
<tennix> rust has lots of functional programming features
<pippijn> rust is very nice
<pippijn> FP in rust is (or can be) inexpensive
<pippijn> in haskell, you never know whether it's expensive or not
<ely-se> A drunken Martin Odersky sees a Reese's Peanut Butter Cup ad featuring somebody's peanut butter getting on somebody else's chocolate and has an idea. He creates Scala, a language that unifies constructs from both object oriented and functional languages. This pisses off both groups and each promptly declares jihad.
<pippijn> and in ocaml, it's reasonably fast most of the time
<pippijn> ely-se: I like that piece of writing
<pippijn> A Brief, Incomplete, and Mostly Wrong History of Programming
<pippijn> I know
<funk> ely-se: a business application with medium sized database operation, extend it with some graphics stuff and later on port it to HTML5-gui. Ocsigen looks very promising for that last part.
<ely-se> the one about JavaScript would be compatible with the present
<funk> it is legacy and more or less fully written in python. some c++-parts for the speedy graphis stuff. i want to port it to a none-mixed language
<ely-se> funk: oh web development. I came to believe lately that nothing is well-suited for that.
<funk> ely-se: there you go. that is perfectly true..
<funk> so proof of concept for me is: first get a working sql-backend in 'my' language, then look to transport that wxWidgets gui into whatever and last having the client side working on my smartphone via html5..
<ely-se> I heard good things about F# type providers with SQL, although given it's F# it probably only works with SQL Server
<Drup> funk: the sql database part is kind of a weak point in the ocsigen eco system at the moment, unfortunatly
<funk> there is https://github.com/fsprojects/SQLProvider, never tried it, but it should work 'they say'
<Drup> funk: I don't have good advices about macaque, except the readme https://github.com/ocsigen/macaque
<ely-se> in C# and F# land, "it just works" means "it just works iff you use Windows, Visual Studio, ASP.NET, and SQL Server"
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<Drup> jpdeplaix: do you have simple examples with macaque around ?
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<funk> ely-se: that's why i want to choose ocaml over f#..
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<funk> drup: yes that would be nice. just to get started with anything. a stony way to do it.
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<funk> ely-se: even if not just works in ocaml.
<ely-se> like, if not x then y else z? :v
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<funk> ely-se: in a way yes..
<ely-se> that works in many languages
<ely-se> such as C++: not x ? y : z
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<ely-se> and Scala: if (!x) y else z
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<funk> ely-se: huh? i think i dont get what you are up to.
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<funk> hmm.
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* mrvn doesn't know what a filesystem is.
<mrvn> ups, ewin
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<jpdeplaix> Drup: mmh sorry. Do you still want one ?
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<Drup> I don't, funk does
<ely-se> funky
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<ely-se> I want to write OCaml code.
<mrvn> I want a million dollars.
<ely-se> Write OCaml code and sell it for a million dollars.
<ely-se> I'm gonna write an RSS aggregator tonight
<Drup> that's kinda already written :p
<ely-se> yes, but not with some killer features I want
<Drup> are you sure http://cumulus.mirai.fr/ ? :p
<ely-se> yes
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<ely-se> whoo, 256 people here. nice round number
<flux> and now it's ruined?
<ely-se> :(
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<Algebr> Is there anyone here using emacs+tramp+ocaml emacs stack?
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<zoetus> hello
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<zoetus> what is the recommended naming convention for functor parameters?
<zoetus> camel case?
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<cmtptr> seems like ocaml people prefer snake_case
<zoetus> and, do people typically use all caps for module types?
<cmtptr> which is the correct_case
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<cmtptr> and ocaml has rules that mandate whether things should begin with capital or lowercase letters
<zoetus> only for type names
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<zoetus> the compiler doesn't care what you call functor parameters or module types
<cmtptr> not in my experience
<cmtptr> but I'm no expert here so maybe someone can correct me
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<zoetus> the style guides, afaik, are silent on naming conventions for functor parameters
<zoetus> also different ones do not even agree on naming conventions for other things, like module names
<cmtptr> oh, I'm an idiot. I misread that as "function parameters" at first, sorry
<zoetus> ah
<zoetus> i thought maybe so, since you said snake case at first :)
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<Drup> zoetus: there is no realy naming convention on the subject
<Drup> some use CamelCase, some This_variation
<Drup> and yes, signatures tend to be ALL_CAPS
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<zoetus> i had to drop out, did anybody have any ideas on functor parameter naming?
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<companion_cube> I like short names for functor parameters
<companion_cube> their signature tell more than their name
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<companion_cube> gasche_: I'm working a bit on qtest, I would like to check with you that my changes do not break its uses in batteries, if you want
<Drup> all the modules are called M N P anyway
<Drup> and the signatures S and T
<Drup> It's a fact
<companion_cube> (also maybe my proposed changes will be useful to batteries too)
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<companion_cube> https://medium.com/@paulcolomiets/asynchronous-io-in-rust-36b623e7b965 interesting, might apply to low-level OCaml too
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<adrien> companion_cube: you're going to code that for me? :)
<companion_cube> heh
<companion_cube> first you need to try what's already existing
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<adrien> step 0: working again on the cross-compiling stuff
<adrien> hopefully by the end of the month
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<companion_cube> you have so much patience :)
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