apeiros changed the topic of #ruby-lang to: Ruby 2.0.0-p247: http://ruby-lang.org (Ruby 1.9.3-p448) || Paste >3 lines of text on http://gist.github.com
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<killtheliterate> anyone used thoughtbot before? their learning tools? i'm interested in picking up ruby skills, and thought that might be a good choice.
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<gnufied> where is everyone getting their research papers from these days?
<gnufied> can't be bothered to buy IEEE subscription
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<whitequark> gnufied: http://sci-hub.org
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<gnufied> hmm, but it simply redirects to google scholar?
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<gnufied> all search points to that link more or less
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<Nilium> So in one of my gems, it's possible to allocate a block of memory and said block is returned to Ruby as a memory object so you can do whatever you want with it. By default, I taint every memory object allocated. Does that seem reasonable?
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<Nilium> I figure any direct memory access should be considered unsafe, so it seemed reasonable to me at the time, but figured I'd ask.
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<whitequark> gnufied: worksforme
<whitequark> it eventually redirected me to http://sci-hub.org/pdfcache/fdc6c1f3b2932c6afd9b574975458ee4.pdf
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<ledestin> Nilium: so it's just malloced?
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<Nilium> ledestin: xmalloc'd, but yes.
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<whitequark> Nilium: tainting is a part of a fundamentally broken security model
<whitequark> so just don't use it
<Nilium> So, waste of time then?
<whitequark> it is also not going to be implemented in JRuby and (I think) rbx
<whitequark> yeah
* Nilium goes in and removes taintery
<Nilium> .. Never using that word again
<Nilium> Sounds horrifying
<gnufied> whitequark: why would you say that. data read from network is by default tainted
<gnufied> such as mysql2 etc, they mark those strings as tainted as well
<whitequark> gnufied: it's blacklisting
<gnufied> right, so what is the alternative? I assume if you are on MRI tainting helps up to ActiveSupport::SafeBuffer
<whitequark> SafeBuffer is a better alternative, since it's indeed whitelisting
<whitequark> "everything which is not explicitly marked safe is unsafe"
<gnufied> yeah, but they work together currently. now lets assume data read from DB is not tainted.
<gnufied> they Rails will assume it to be safe
<whitequark> no
<whitequark> well, let me check, but I'm pretty sure that no
<Nilium> I also don't care if Rails people assume it's safe.
<Nilium> I highly doubt any security-conscious person will be touching this gem with a 200ft pole
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<whitequark> by the say SafeBuffer doesn't use tainting
<whitequark> it checks for html_safe?
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<erikh> fart
<gnufied> I thought it would use taininting.
* whitequark slaps erikh around a bit with a large trout
<erikh> whitequark: hello
<whitequark> erikh: hi
<whitequark> gnufied: also sqlite3 adapter iirc doesn't mark data as tainted
<whitequark> and there is 10000 other ways to get around that restriction, as well as bugs--grep CVEs by the words "ruby taint", there really is a lot of them
<whitequark> various weird corner cases in the standard library when you do strange things with strings and regexes
<erikh> taint checking is a good idea, but has a poor/impossible implementation
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<erikh> perl has similar problems, fwiw.
<whitequark> well, you're fine if you do whitelisting
<erikh> (which IIRC is where the feature comes from)
<whitequark> AS::SafeBuffer avoids most or all of these problems
<erikh> but then you have to use activesupport
<erikh> and not all things taint are html-oriented
<whitequark> there's a gem which does the same pattern for various contexts
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<whitequark> html, js, etc
<erikh> yeah, er, yeah.
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<Nilium> I'll probably just leave the tainted stuff in for now.
<erikh> wow, got down to 5 tabs from about 30 today
<whitequark> besides, require 'active_support/safe_buffer' ;)
<whitequark> don't have to use all of AS
<erikh> I think I win an award
<Nilium> If nothing else then it'll just act as a warning.
<gnufied> Nilium: it does look like AS ignores tainting altogether
<Nilium> Not sure what that is, so eh
<gnufied> so not sure if it buys anything
<gnufied> like what whitequark said
<Nilium> It might buy something in a game dev environment where you only really need a small check like taintedness
<erikh> well, tainting is generally broken under $SAFE, for example
<Nilium> For rails stuff, again, I think any security-conscious person would stay the hell away from the gem
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<erikh> or was for the longest time. maybe they fixed it
<Nilium> Plus I can't really predict what rails people expect, having never used it
<erikh> yeah, I'm not really talking about rails here. Just MRI.
<gnufied> So, I read/understood bundler's backtracking algorithm of dependency resolution
<gnufied> the problem in itself is NP-complete
<Nilium> It's kind of disappointing when I start a level in Hotline Miami and don't have the option to use a sledgehammer.
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<erikh> gnufied: you've seen libgecode, right?
<gnufied> when a gem conflicts (with another one), there are too many pathways to backtrack
<gnufied> erikh: no
<erikh> it is/was used in chef to resolve cookbooks in a similar manner to bundler
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<gnufied> looks awesome.
<erikh> it is :)
<gnufied> there are two parts of it though.
<erikh> I have about 90% of a working mingw port
<gnufied> 1. resolving dependencies
<gnufied> 2. finding the order in which they should be installed
<gnufied> #2 is solved by topological sort, which is kinda known/easy problem
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<gnufied> wow, it seems to be solving #1 as well
<gnufied> wish we can use this in bundler
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<erikh> and it's retardedly fast
<gnufied> it is a shame we can't use a c library in Ruby because other ruby implementations will cry foul.
<Nilium> That's why you should ignore them >_>
<gnufied> Evan (Phoenix) wrote an iterative resolver for rubygems
<gnufied> this seems like a solved problem and we are just re-inventing the wheel
<gnufied> not solved (because it is NP-Complete)
<gnufied> but to some extent largely already attempted by people
<whitequark> gnufied: if it uses FFI, you can
<whitequark> FFI is pretty portable.
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<erikh> whitequark: this conversation has happened many times
<erikh> not gonna happen.
<whitequark> erikh: hm?
<gnufied> ^
<erikh> I've suggested it, raggi has suggested it numerous times
<erikh> etc
<gnufied> but in what context?
<whitequark> so what's the problem? I wrote/used FFI gems quite a bit
<erikh> in the "this solves the problem" context
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<erikh> it's a rather large piece of software
<erikh> and takes a while to build
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<erikh> there's also the mingw problem, but I've been (slowly) chipping away at that.
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<gnufied> ah okay, so it has been suggested to use geocode for bundler before and largely advice has been ignored?
<gnufied> hmm
<erikh> we used it in a project called berkshelf until one of hte authors got severe megalomania and thought he could solve the problem itself
<erikh> http://github.com/reset/solve is the result
<erikh> it solves the problem if you run it recursively with factorial complexity
<erikh> so "solve"
<gnufied> ha ha, berkshelf is the one giving me headache
<erikh> yeah there's a long story with that
<erikh> berkshelf's a pile of ass these dyas.
<gnufied> i didn't mean it that way.
<erikh> oh, elias
<erikh> I used to work with him
<erikh> probably wrote the code he's using, heh
<gnufied> lol
<erikh> he's a super smart guy
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<gnufied> grr, dep_selector looks like b**c to compile
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<Nilium> Alrighty, taint-ing removed and stack allocation added for a one-two punch of possible security issues.
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<Nilium> I love doing things the bad way.
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<whitequark> stack... what?
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<Nilium> Stack allocation. As in allocations not on the heap.
<whitequark> yeah, I know what stack allocation is
<Nilium> Like Memory::alloca(64) { |m| do_stuff_with_m }
<whitequark> and why would you need that, I wonder
<Nilium> World may never know
<Nilium> It would actually have some use if you only temporarily needed a small block of memory and were going to reuse it heavily.
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<whitequark> sigh
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<Nilium> Thankfully, it's disabled by default.
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<judofyr> whitequark: re: metaprogramming with macros: what do you prefer? #send and #define_method?
<whitequark> judofyr: in a nutshell, yes
<whitequark> you do need some interesting tricks to make that work in a statically typed language, though.
<judofyr> whitequark: does a separate syntax for #send help, or is it mostly about statically detecting the method/function name that's tricky?
<whitequark> uh, neither
<whitequark> #send is just a very special case; the problem is far larger and more complex
<whitequark> think for example that you have two APIs, A and B
<whitequark> and you need to forward A#x(a, b) → B#do_x(b, a)
<whitequark> so that would include rearranging of tuples and actually performing computations over method names
<whitequark> what I came up with is twofold: first you have a metalanguage, which is essentially dynamically typed (but respects annotations)
<whitequark> then you have an object language, which is the thing that's statically typed (in languages with type inference, type annotations never change semantics of the program: they merely make it compilable)
<whitequark> there's a problem with this meta/object distinction, though. take the #send case
<whitequark> you can freely #send any message to any object in the metalanguage, since it's dynamically typed
<whitequark> but not in object language, since the compiler would need to know the selector in advance
<whitequark> so what I do is essentially add a partial evaluation pass--similar to what's already present in optimizing compilers--which folds the computation until it uncovers enough detail to meaningfully type the program
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<whitequark> (or until there's nothing left and then it barfs)
<whitequark> I have a half-baked article about this which I really need to publish
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<yorickpeterse> YAY TRAIN DELAYS
* yorickpeterse is still in a train, after a 30 minute delay of which most was spent stuck behind an open bridge
<andrewvos> Well some of us are working yorickpeterse
<yorickpeterse> NOT IMPORTANT, HEAR MY RAGE
<yorickpeterse> also station, brb
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<Nilium> You could rage against the things I do that offend people who use Ruby.
<judofyr> Nilium: can I allocate objects on the stack with your magic?
<Nilium> No, no. That's horrifying.
<judofyr> I know
<judofyr> bummer
<judofyr> that would be some really black magic
<whitequark> judofyr: would it?
<Nilium> It's only there for C interop stuff.
<judofyr> whitequark: well, an object has other pointers (ivar table) that are dynamically resized
<judofyr> whitequark: I want the whole object to be on the stack
<Nilium> You could probably pull it off if Ruby let you specify where to put an object, but I'm not aware of anything for that in the C API, nor am I sure if there's a way to call an object's finalizer, if it has one, arbitrarily
<whitequark> judofyr: oh. well, there *is* such a system.
<Nilium> Either way, I don't know enough about Ruby's guts to do anything about that. It's probably not worth doing, either.
<judofyr> whitequark: good luck integrating that with MRI
<whitequark> judofyr: did you ever read it
<judofyr> whitequark: yes
<whitequark> ah
<whitequark> well, you could integrate that with MRI
<whitequark> if you will separate the call stack and C stack
<judofyr> whitequark: it's the "never return", convert to CPS, allocate everything on the stack, trace living objects on overflow thingie, right?
<whitequark> judofyr: yes
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<yorickpeterse> finally at the office
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<jonahR> If anyone is interested, here is a free hall pass for CodeSchool, cheers! http://go.codeschool.com/9QTYTQ
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<gnufied> man
<yorickpeterse> whitequark: the one with the sea rising is also great
<gnufied> one my friend (indian) married a dutch woman. they seem happy. so I am sure this stereotype is only applicable to men?
<yorickpeterse> what stereotype?
<gnufied> ha ha
<yorickpeterse> (there are more than just one)
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<yorickpeterse> heh, I should've put this laptop on a cable way earlier
<yorickpeterse> no more b43 bollocks for me!
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<yorickpeterse> ok I'll stick with wifi, this Yealink phone (that I have to put the cable in) doesn't like me streaming stuff
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<yorickpeterse> deleting repos is tricky business
<yorickpeterse> "Is this used or not used...hmm..."
<yorickpeterse> especially if you have to go through 125 of them
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<yorickpeterse> README: "Describe your project here" THEN WHY NOT DO IT
<yorickpeterse> also found a README that just said "rake -T"
<whitequark> yorickpeterse: should I send you an EWD t-shirt?
<whitequark> (though. i probably should buy myself one)
<judofyr> EWD t-shirt?
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<judofyr> as in Dijkstra?
<whitequark> yes
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<yorickpeterse> whitequark: depends, what do they look like
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<yorickpeterse> meh
<judofyr> well, I've seen worse
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<yorickpeterse> The closest thing I wear to that is a Pry t-shirt on a Saturday every now and then
<judofyr> whitequark: language idea: foo<bar> is a function call (like foo(bar)) which happens at compile-time. generics are just functions that return a new class/type.
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<yorickpeterse> heh wtf, this PNG file contains XML
<whitequark> judofyr: yes, that is how foundry works
<whitequark> Hash(key: Integer, value: String)
<whitequark> yorickpeterse: metadata
<whitequark> photoshop does that I think
<gnufied> photoshop or fireworks?
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<yorickpeterse> heh, some friday afternoon project management aint that bad
<yorickpeterse> where "project management" translates to "LINE WRAP ALL THE DOCUMENTS!"
<yorickpeterse> or "FIX MARKDOWN SYNTAX PROBLEMS"
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<yorickpeterse> I was just handed a credit card
<yorickpeterse> I HAVE THE POWEERRRRRR
* yorickpeterse goes back to work
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<yorickpeterse> Does anybody know of a Gem similar to `distance_of_time_in_words` but without the ActiveCrap requirement?
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<andrewvos> yorickpeterse: Copy and paste that shit
<judofyr> yorickpeterse: I couldn't find anything suitable
<yorickpeterse> hmpf
<yorickpeterse> Chronic does the exact opposite
<judofyr> yorickpeterse: here's what I've been using: http://hastebin.com/huxotesija.rb
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<yorickpeterse> dayum
<andrewvos> judofyr: Wow
<judofyr> andrewvos: wow what?
<judofyr> it's just a copy-paste from Rails
<andrewvos> Oh ok
<judofyr> without the I18n stuff
<andrewvos> coo
<yorickpeterse> ugh, octokit's docs are fucking terrible
<yorickpeterse> At least the README is
<yorickpeterse> trying to figure out how the hell to authenticate using an API access token
<lianj> rails does format("about X hours", 1) instead of "%d" % 1 ?
<erikh> dependencies are bad
<erikh> ruby community totally has no problem with stability perceptions because of this
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<gnufied> what is the answer?
<gnufied> clearly you have not worked on J2EE project
<gnufied> :-)
<gnufied> it downloads half of the internet
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<gnufied> but I didn't mean to compare necessarily
<erikh> bandwidth is cheap.
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<darix> erikh: but it also depends on half the internet
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<yorickpeterse> > Yorick wants to benchmark code
<yorickpeterse> > Uses threads
<yorickpeterse> > Segfaults MRI
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<yorickpeterse> lel
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<yorickpeterse> Aha, Patron apparently isn't thread-safe
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<pellis> hello
<pellis> i have some mind eating metaprogramming issue
<pellis> trying to implement a concern on my own. a Logging concern, where the logger is set as class instance, and i want to allow an instance-level accessor for it. so i do a self.class.logger
<pellis> problem is, i want everyone in the inheritance chain to see this instance method
<pellis> and self.class won't work for that
<pellis> any idea?
<tbuehlmann> sounds like a use case for a class variable
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<pellis> tbuehlmann, trouble is, the class variable which holds the logger is within an inner module, ClassMethods
<tbuehlmann> would love to talk about that but I have to go :(
<pellis> thanks
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<yorickpeterse> thread question: does calling Thread#join block any other threads or just the calling one?
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<spike|spiegel> in MRI?
<yorickpeterse> Yes, but also in others. Note that in this case I'm talking about calling #join after creating the threads
<ryanf> what other threads would it block?
<yorickpeterse> so `threads = []; threads << Thread.new { ...}; threads.map(&:join)` vs `Thread.new { }.join`
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<spike|spiegel> join blocks only the thread that called join
<yorickpeterse> Ah ok, thanks
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<erikh> yorickpeterse: just the calling one
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<erikh> my_threads.each(&:join) and my_threads.map(&:value) are things you'll see a lot in half-decent mt code
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<yorickpeterse> heh, interesting: the performance of threaded vs sequential on rbx is the direct opposite of MRI
<yorickpeterse> (ratio wise)
<yorickpeterse> e.g. MRI would take 10 seconds for threading vs, say, 8 for sequential
<yorickpeterse> whereas Rbx would take around 6 seconds for threaded vs 11 sequential
<yorickpeterse> ~3-4 seconds difference for some pretty heavy duty stuff is not bad for code that is completely unoptimized
<yorickpeterse> and this excludes the network IO it does (stubbed it out)
<eam> does dl/import's struct() work with nested structs? (if so, how?)
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<Nilium> I think it should..? It seems too easy to not provide it.
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<athaeryn> Hey guys, I have a question about gem development with rbenv and bundler. I use to use RVM, but grew to be not terribly fond of it, so I switched to rbenv. Now I'm trying to create a gem, but I can't seem to be able to require the gems from my Gemfile.
<athaeryn> I'm not really sure what the right way to go about this is...
<athaeryn> s/use to/used to
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<ericwood> athaeryn: #rbenv
<athaeryn> Gosh, I feel like half the questions I ask I get told to go to another channel. ;)
<athaeryn> ericwood: thanks
<Nilium> athaeryn: Are the gems installed and whatnot?
<athaeryn> Nilium: yes, assuming that bundle install is all that I need to run to install them.
<Nilium> Ok, now without the assumption?
<athaeryn> Yes.
<Nilium> Did you do rbenv rehash when switching ruby versions?
<Nilium> Shouldn't be necessary but you never know.
<Nilium> Aside from that, yeah, #rbenv.
<athaeryn> Yeah.
<athaeryn> Nilium: thanks though!
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<athaeryn> Doesn't look like there's anyone there...
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<athaeryn> Nilium: haha
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<Nilium> Well, there are 85 issues here, see if any of them look like your thing: https://github.com/sstephenson/rbenv/search?q=bundler&source=cc&type=Issues
<Nilium> I guess there's no #rbenv or ##rbenv
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<havenwood> never is anyone in #rbenv, if you want live human beings #rvm or #chruby :P
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<Nilium> Well, rvm isn't really going to help with rbenv, probably
<athaeryn> I don't know that I have an issue with rbenv as much as I just don't know how to develop a gem properly..
<athaeryn> I managed under rvm, but that was using gemsets.
<Nilium> I don't use bundler for gem dev, so it's hard for me to say what the issue there might be
<athaeryn> What do you do?
<Nilium> Create a gemspec and get to work.
<athaeryn> But to manage gems? Do you have a Gemfile or anything?
<Nilium> Nope.
<Nilium> I just list any dependencies in my gemspec.
<athaeryn> Ah... Then you just have to install the gem before running it?
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<athaeryn> With RVM I could just run the executable in bin/ without having to install the gem.
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<Nilium> Yeah, I just install gems.
<athaeryn> So your workflow is like: make a change, install the gem, run it, repeat?
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<Nilium> If it uses a C extension, yes, otherwise I just require it through ruby -Ilib -rname
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<Nilium> Most of my gems use C extensions, though, so it's pretty much always build/install
<Nilium> Especially since I have to make sure the install options work
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<thenj> what is a good way to loop through a list of ip addresses, ssh command, and evaluate the result of the command?
<thenj> should i use something like Net::SSH ?
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<athaeryn> Nilium: Hmmm... I'll have to look into this.. maybe I'll just switch back to rvm and the way I was doing things before... though I've tried that twice already and gone back to rbenv for reasons I can't recall. :)
<Nilium> If it works and rvm doesn't interfere with your shell in ways you care about, then eh
<athaeryn> Yeah, I wish I could remember the reasons.... I guess I might find out.
<Nilium> My main issue is that it hijacks `cd`
<Nilium> Which is sort of reprehensible
<athaeryn> I heard something about that...
<athaeryn> But that wasn't my issue with it.
<athaeryn> Not that I really know what was.
<athaeryn> I did notice though that after rvm implode things blew up when I tried to cd. :)
<Nilium> That should be fixable by just killing the shell and starting a new one though
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<thenj> why are there 2 ruby channels? #ruby and #ruby-lang ?
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<Nilium> Are there?
<Nilium> I'm only aware of this one.
<athaeryn> Right.
<thenj> #ruby has more users in it
<Nilium> To the best of my knowledge, this is the official one
<yorickpeterse> thenj: #ruby-lang is for the cool kids
<athaeryn> So this is the official one, but more underground.
<thenj> word
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<grandy> quick minitest question, anybody know if I can include a namsespace so that my class names resolve without having to prefix all of them with the namespace
<grandy> ?
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<injekt> grandy: what?
<grandy> figured it out, i was doing something dumb :)
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<drbrain> gnufied: can you test rubygems master (1e22d2f) with respect to https://github.com/rubygems/rubygems/issues/597
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<postmodern> is there a method in Mechanize::Page which returns all stylesheets?
<drbrain> postmodern: I don't think so
<postmodern> drbrain, would you be open to a pull request?
<drbrain> postmodern: sure!
<postmodern> drbrain, alright i'll try to copy your images/links helper methods
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<postmodern> drbrain, i suppose you'd want a CSS class to represent text/css responses
<drbrain> postmodern: I don't think it's necessary
<drbrain> is there anything special the class would need to do?
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<postmodern> drbrain, not sure, just noticed you define Image < Download and use Image in Page#images
<postmodern> drbrain, could I just use Download?
<drbrain> yes
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<drbrain> since it's an otherwise empty class, Image likely predates my involvement with mechanize
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