<rjeffries>
one guy said he'd like one, but would need to ger a few extra hours a day (he is a bust consultant)
<wpwrak>
rjeffries: ;-)
<rjeffries>
they were polite. ;)
<rjeffries>
wpwrak I gave a Ben preso to 12 older guys at Linux meeting last night
<rjeffries>
dvdk I have wondered myself. wolfspraul can comment maybe he moderates the list
<viric>
rjeffries: what is it for?
<dvdk>
rjeffries: i *do* see my own mails.  just not immediately
<rjeffries>
dvdk agree mail list feels slow. At least for me, I never see my own messages. Known bug if I recall correctly.
<rjeffries>
viric that is the new software/OD that Palm designed por Palm Pre etc abouy a year or so ago. They were bought by HP
<viric>
rjeffries: what is that webos?
<rjeffries>
Keep a close eye on HP now. WebOS could becone very sucessful.
<rjeffries>
they need to keep their options open. killing Symbian had to be 1)a very difficult decision 2) obviously required
<rjeffries>
Nokia + MS on some but n ot all Nokia hardware is prolly a smart move. They have NOT killed Meego, so we shall see
<rjeffries>
s/yje/the
<rjeffries>
Back from yje meeting
2011-02-10
<rjeffries>
just gave the Ben pitch to a group of 12 guys in Sanluis Obispo
<rjeffries>
hello
<wpwrak>
rjeffries: hmmm ... Anarctica ... in spanish, the "h" of the greek-transliterated "ch" tends to get dropped. so is this an anarchist's utopia ?
<rjeffries>
looks like someone will soon have their hands on a Ben
<wpwrak>
rjeffries: btw, to "sell" the ben to your hacker friends, you really ought to meet them in real life and show them the device. its compactness has a convincing effect of its own that just looking at pictures and specs doesn't.
<rjeffries>
Kentucky Fried Chicken is still big in USA and, I think, China
<rjeffries>
I thought I'd have a photo of myself on that laser printed protective label. The Cornel Sanders of th eUBB Empire
<rjeffries>
that is a good url IÂ Â LOVE how short it is!!!!
<rjeffries>
cool it now works when I first tried it a few days a go no worky
<rjeffries>
that one is for wolfspraul as you know
<rjeffries>
too bad wolfsoraul is asleep (I assume)
<rjeffries>
may add label that says" //joke mode ON: PROOF OF CONCEPT
<rjeffries>
s/og/of
<rjeffries>
that is not what I am about
<rjeffries>
look if I make this investment of time and risk a few bucks, I will NOT take credit for the work og wprak
<rjeffries>
that URL does not seem to work/
<wpwrak>
rjeffries: fwiw, "qi-hw.com" is already printed on the silk screen (if you keep it)
<rjeffries>
the transparency film could carry contact info (where to buy)
<rjeffries>
sTazoe/Razor that is a funny typo
<roh>
rjeffries_: i still use a motorola razr v3i. the second now. (first one died of mechanical issues/got unreliable)
<rjeffries_>
wpwtak sorry to be dumb but the transparancy film would be to provide insulation I think?
<wpwrak>
rjeffries_: if you want to make it perfect, you can try to glue some plastic sheet on the non-contact part of the permanently inserted zone. the transparency films used for laser printers are about 100 um so plus glue and all, it would be about right.
<rjeffries_>
I noticed that document said 1 mm thickness rather tha 0.8 mm ;)
<rjeffries_>
ok no big deal to me I thinbk you already know what is needed
<wpwrak>
rjeffries_: (sd card link) yeah. but what you need are the non-public dimensions ;-)
<rjeffries_>
Motorola Razor was top model for FIVE (5) years. FIVE YEARS
<rjeffries_>
phone model cycle is now 6 to9 months use3d to be 3 years
<rjeffries_>
BEDROOM BEN NANONOTE makes your woman orgasm faster
<rjeffries_>
s/nide/NUDE
<rjeffries_>
marketing idea: JEFFRIES RESEARCH we sell NIDE Boards. X-rated. mailed in plian envelope
<rjeffries_>
tuxbrain I agree UBB is DIY and other experimenters
<rjeffries_>
tuxbarin agree
<rjeffries_>
I am inclined to buy the flat ribbin cable and ship a short length so user doesn't need to find that vital item
<rjeffries_>
tuxbrain at the start I would leave it bare. send advice on how to solder ribbon cable and dip in silicon
<tuxbrain>
rjeffries_: we can have some nude boards for hackers and so, but I don't thing ,if rentable, that cover the electronics to avoid accidental shortcuts and give it some protection is a bad idea
<rjeffries_>
I wondered about that
<wpwrak>
rjeffries_: looks good. i would remove the two references at the end, though. they're from a different section
<rjeffries_>
wpwrak I have draft email to PCB consultant in your mail box
<rjeffries_>
roh I tried one of online web tools was a pain in the ass everything needed to be in inches
<rjeffries_>
I am creating an email now
<rjeffries_>
oh, now I need ti hire a secretary. Great idea. I'll get on it. ;)
<wpwrak>
rjeffries_: well, let your secretary do it :)
<rjeffries_>
now I have too edit? /// laughs out loud /// you assume a high IQ that may or may not be true
<wpwrak>
rjeffries_: (unless your friend likes to read a lot :)
<rjeffries_>
wpwrak pls look at this page. are top two items what I should use?
<wpwrak>
rjeffries: (know a lot) only some basics. i've never had one manufactured myself. the simple ones, i rather do myself. the complex ones quickly get too expensive for this poor hobbyist.
<rjeffries>
wpwrak you know a LT about pcb fab
<rjeffries>
so I get maybe 250 emails a day. do I look in qi-hardware mail list archive to find the correct emails?
<wpwrak>
rjeffries: the main constraints are board thickness and the accuracy of the cut. the cheapest "hobbyist" places can't even do 0.8 mm. (and they won't be able to cut the board either)
<rjeffries>
I have already figured that out
<wpwrak>
rjeffries: china is always an option, yes. there, they also have modern machines :)
<wpwrak>
rjeffries: (resources) ok. try them then. maybe also ping your "consultant" for possibly cheaper places.
<rjeffries>
consultant can send it to China and the extra time is a don't care
<rjeffries>
ok, rw panelization I get it
<wpwrak>
rjeffries: if the fab doesn't want to do it, then you need their specs for doing it
<rjeffries>
the guy who answered me has other things to do. he pointed me to resources. I can send them a package, once I find the right bits
<wpwrak>
rjeffries: for panelization, the best would be if the fab can do it. for this, they need to understand that the pcb itself is the final product. i.e., you don't care in which form and arrangement you receive the pcbs. in particular, you don't won't feed them to any machine (smt or such)
<rjeffries>
ok fine
<wpwrak>
rjeffries: maybe just forward him the production section of the mail. plus a link to a picture of the board.
<rjeffries>
my friend is a busy guy I only asked him for high level info. I may send the package to that consultant guy however
<wpwrak>
rjeffries: send him the link. don't make him ask for every bit of information individually :)
<rjeffries>
well I can tell him I have the gerbers
<rjeffries>
is there now one or two links that describe the project? pls remind me
<wpwrak>
rjeffries: he didn't really understand what you want. you should have sent him at least a link to the gerbers
<wpwrak>
whoa. soon, i'll need a rjeffries folder :)
<rjeffries>
wpwraK yes, you will. it is all good
<rjeffries>
wpwrak You have mail.
<rjeffries>
marketing ideaL rename the radio as H2O RANDOMNESS SUCKER
<rjeffries>
I would use a password vault. but wpwrak is right, the main PC must be secure. it is a Hard Problem
<rjeffries>
smiles: 05:27 <roh> wpwrak: please dont let me pull you down. i am just viewing this from a real-world sales angle //WAIT that is MY job description. we should start  aUnion
<rjeffries>
compared with Ben, Arduinio community is huge
<rjeffries>
yup
<roh>
rjeffries: 250E isnt that bad.
<rjeffries>
roh yes I looked at that Pulster is01 page earlier. I loke that device. I do not like the price so yes, if somone could shenzen it, that would be awesome
<rjeffries>
I think woldspraul is an existence proof that shenzen process does not translate into fabulous sales
<roh>
rjeffries: i got suggestions to use it as kind of a crypto-vault (which is basically the only usecase which i know which needs to NOT have connnectivity.
<roh>
rjeffries: well.. what usecase? you can use it for what its sold in asia.. as lexicon, as translator (install dict? etc)
<rjeffries>
ok. cool. so maybe we have similar data. thank you, I agree the use case if one is not strong copylet person is weak
<rjeffries>
what about it roh? don't be shy I can take it
<rjeffries>
roh message me to tell me what I should have read. I read it all. I also later read the damn logs
<roh>
rjeffries: about your 'talks with hackers'
<roh>
rjeffries: i have one old prototype and some oem device with different sw but basically the same mainboard around. no 'final' nanonote.
<rjeffries>
steve|m give me a break, nit everyone in this community does the same thing. some people crochet cases. some write driver. others create acrylic cases for Milkymist. some are serious DIY onlookers who want to fand a way to use Ben in clever ways.\
<roh>
rjeffries: scroll up.
<rjeffries>
wpwrak guys I can go away. thanks for such a friendly atmosphere. I never presented mself as aLinux software guru
<roh>
rjeffries: your question suggest that you do not read what i wrote.
<roh>
rjeffries: do you read whats written here or only write?
<rjeffries>
my idea is Ben as dedicated controller in home automation network will be interesting
<rjeffries>
wolfgang when the wpwrak radio for Ben and matching radio for PC is ready that may really help
<rjeffries>
more on the robot front. amd other little hardwar eprojects such as a LED cube that makes pretty colors
<rjeffries>
these guys are not into phones
<rjeffries>
data on how potential customers view a product is neither good or bad it just  is data
<rjeffries>
wpwrak I am not representing thier viewpoint. I am only reporting. They did listen (it was irc) but were not moved
<rjeffries>
these guys at a Hackerspace are quite practical they use Arduino to control robots that sort of thing. they are not bad guys at all
<wpwrak>
rjeffries: (root android) that's called the antivendor approach. it's been tried and failed miserably. it looks attractive but is only applicable in very very small niches.
<rjeffries>
well two people may order. I can;t do grouo buy, but the price difference to them is only an extar $20
<rjeffries>
they really dislike lack of WiFi, and are not members of the Wolfgang Church of Copyleft
<rjeffries>
wpwrak I am convinced UBB will be important. no problemo. but smart people are not convinced of value of Ben
<wpwrak>
rjeffries: (ubb) so you're still trying. good. will be useful for also have quotes from different places.
<rjeffries>
tuxbrain: I will write a short report to the qi-hardware list. briefly, they think it is better to buy say a used android phone and root it
<rjeffries>
wpwrak: have not had time yet. very busy period. will get first email off now
<tuxbrain>
rjeffries: discouraging?
<wpwrak>
rjeffries: (ubb) giving up on looking for a pcb maker in the US already ?
<rjeffries>
I had a discouraging discuzzion with a group of 20 hackers last night about Ben Nanonote
<rjeffries>
what is is01 please
<rjeffries>
I like Netwalker but the price is high
<rjeffries>
joke mode ON tuxbrain, will you sell me a quantity of UBB when it is ready I can be yur USA sub-distributor
<tuxbrain>
hi all , ok mirko , good morning rjeffries :)
<rjeffries>
Good morning tuxbrain
<rjeffries>
ok. cool.
<rjeffries>
so 99 would be nearly pure lurker and 0.5 would be always talking more or less
<rjeffries>
what does idle-factor mean
<rjeffries>
s/luak/kyak
<rjeffries>
luak a small suggestion> IMO "stats" is more natural that "stat"
<rjeffries>
!stats rjeffries
2011-02-09
<rjeffries>
g'nite
<rjeffries_>
does not work for meL 12:39 <kristianpaul>Â Â /msg -Freenode qi-bot topwords #qi-hardware
<rjeffries_>
that is so damn funny. you are a genius
<tuxbrain>
sorry rjeffries_ only works with NN owners :P
<rjeffries_>
!words rjeffries
<tuxbrain>
wpwrak: rjeffries_4 more used word :) hehehe
<rjeffries_>
tuxbrain I have not time for a siesta b ut it is a MOST EXCELLENT idea
<wpwrak>
rjeffries_: jlime also has a very friendly cross-development environment, with the ability to install precompiled packages directly into the cross-development environment. not sure where openwrt is in this regard.
<rjeffries_>
I wish sharism could di a simple online survey to see how many Ben owners use which distro, with option of also saying their Ben is not in active use
<rjeffries_>
how is the wine in your region tuxbrain
<rjeffries_>
tuxbrain it is almost time for my siesta right now. ;))
<rjeffries_>
that helps a lot
<wpwrak>
rjeffries_: debian seems to be more a proof of concept. probably would need some major effort to trim it down and make it run efficiently. i also don't know what user interface they have.
<wpwrak>
rjeffries_: openwrt most compact, limited choice of packages. jlime large choice of packages. not sure how the two compare today in terms of user experience. jlime used to be far ahead but openwrt has tried to catch up.
<rjeffries_>
tivbrain I am just having a little fun. I thought you would have them done next week
<rjeffries_>
what is a short answer to how OpenERt Jlime and Debian compare on Ben
<tuxbrain>
rjeffries_: well first they have to be quoted :)
<rjeffries_>
wpwrak I had no idea re Jlime
<rjeffries_>
tuxbrain when will your UBB pcbs be finished?
<wpwrak>
rjeffries_: zrafa did quite a lot of work to make it run nicely on the ben
<wpwrak>
rjeffries_: thanks to openembedded, it has about ten times as many packages as openwrt. (not all of them are truly useful, of course - some exist but are just too big)
<wpwrak>
rjeffries_: jlime is an openembedded derivate. originally for the hp jornada, but has since been ported to other portable devices, including the ben nanonote
<rjeffries_>
I do nt understand JLime. In general Ben shares with OpenMoko the :many distros" bessing and curse
<rjeffries_>
I have already sent the email but will GLADY send a correcetd reworded even better more awesome email
<rjeffries_>
wpwrak. would you take my email, edit it then I can stand on your shoulders.
<rjeffries_>
I did not send to wolfspraul because he may not like what I am trying to do.
<wpwrak>
rjeffries_: that's the whole board, not just the USB side
<Mauro_R>
rjeffries_: oh, I thought you were talking about the OS, sorry ...
<rjeffries_>
maybe output goes to a different log of links
<rjeffries_>
simply filter the irc log and only display lines that contain http: or https:
<rjeffries_>
so I guess my dream would be that wolfspraul adds a gadegt to qi-bot that filters out links and shows them
<kyak>
rjeffries_: the assumption is, that qi-bot is always online :)
<rjeffries_>
how beefy is the server? just curious?
<rjeffries_>
oh but we do not know how long qi-bot has been alive unless he reports
<rjeffries_>
I assume scope is current log only?
<rjeffries_>
that is totally AWEFUL
<rjeffries_>
No more smiles for me
<rjeffries_>
oh my god
<rjeffries_>
so waht else can top20 ( ..) do?
<rjeffries_>
what is argumanet to Top20??
<rjeffries_>
Mauro Vista is not the horrible OS everyone assumes but in Microsoft land Wui 7 is far better
<rjeffries_>
I have other wasy Vbox with Ubuntu and it dual boots Ubuntu so if nobody will take 30 sec to do this favor I will do it later
<dvdk>
rjeffries_: there's a cure: install cygwin :)
<rjeffries_>
and wolfspraul may permanently ban me, I dunno
<rjeffries_>
dvdl PLEASE do not tell anybody that at this moment I am using a Vista lappie I would be so embarassed
<rjeffries_>
whatever I do not have grep avail right now and need to chase down links in this long log
<rjeffries_>
qi-bot? I thought wolfspraul was asleep for sure
<dvdk>
rjeffries_: you mean 'grep 'http:\|https:' ?
<rjeffries_>
dvdk accepting that sad fact, would yoy hack a quick script and run this log through it and only print lines conatining http: or https: so I can find links easily
<rjeffries_>
dvdk I am NOt flunet and am not at this moment using Linux. I know I am an EVIL man
<rjeffries_>
dvdk indeed
<dvdk>
rjeffries_: so that should mostly translate to grep
<rjeffries_>
;)
<rjeffries_>
don't everyone raise your hands all at same time
<rjeffries_>
I assume one or more of you guys are fluent in grep or awk?
<dvdk>
rjeffries_: david k.
<rjeffries_>
which "David" is this pls?
<rjeffries_>
I got to see the ceramic factory that made a wide range of piezo based devices. it was next door to my office
<rjeffries_>
lekernel piezos are very widly used. Ultrasound, and also cheap BBQ lighters
<lekernel>
rjeffries_: if I understand it correctly, piezos are also used for moving the probe in tunelling microscopes
<rjeffries_>
what interfaces does it have? is there a microSD slot like Ben
<rjeffries_>
Ayla I assume you hav eth Dingo ??
<Ayla>
rjeffries_: ehrmm, sorry?
<rjeffries_>
Ayla does dingoo have a microSD slot a.k.a 8:10 in Ben-talk
<rjeffries_>
the whole area of transducers is fascinating. manufacturing process is almost black magic
<rjeffries_>
speaking of piezos: I used to work at a p;ace that made areally  range of piezo devices. including the stuff used in submarines to locate various things such as other submarines
<dvdk>
zrafa, rjeffries: what's the problenm with tcl?  you mean tcl on nanonote?
<rjeffries>
zarfa I have asked on list (I do not have a Ben) and did not get a solid answer
<zrafa>
rjeffries: and are you telling that tcl does not work?
<rjeffries>
I am not positive he uses HopeRF, maybe a competing radio
<rjeffries>
Jean-Claude Wippler  JeeLabs  jcw@equi4.com Libes in Houten, a village near Utrecht in the middle of the Netherlands,
<rjeffries>
be is a cool dude. I have exchanged emails with him several times
<rjeffries>
THAT is why I have been urging that Tcl be wel supported
<rjeffries>
also he can promote Ben as a central point for his stuff.
<rjeffries>
Now we need to get this info to Jean Paul at JeeLabs he has a LOT of boards that will be interesting
<rjeffries>
COOL BEANS
<mirko>
rjeffries: more or less finished :)
<mirko>
rjeffries: yep
<rjeffries>
so mirko do you already have it talking to light switches etc?
<rjeffries>
Mirko, that is a thing of beauty. more or less. ;)
<rjeffries>
what an idiot I am. .in does not mean YOU live in India. I think you live in Europe.
<rjeffries>
it worked for me but giot warning abut untrusted site certificate
<mirko>
rjeffries: yeah, india - sth. available  as mirko.TLD was difficult to get :)
<rjeffries>
dot in  .in is .... India? what area?
<rjeffries>
s/Frankenca/Franken-cables/Â Â (8:10 to cable done as "street job"
<rjeffries>
oh yes wolfsproul did mention you had onebles and were playing with HopeRF of his Frankenca
<rjeffries>
mirko, I was kidding. understood.
<mirko>
rjeffries: will do so in the evening, after finishing my post about the rfm12 <-> NN stuff
<rjeffries>
s/excitity/exciting
<mirko>
rjeffries: yeah, i have been quite busy an didn't follow the list regularly :/
<rjeffries>
no I also have not ordered a Milkymist. I will someday. not now. ;) It is a very excitity project
<rjeffries>
hello Mr Vogt, You have ben missed on the qi list. By me. Nobody else even noticed you had dissapeared. [smile]
<rjeffries>
kristianpaul God bless you, but i do not need to defend what I like or do. I have a wide range of activities. I write a book, I publish a newsletter, I am an avide photographer I even have a REAL darkroom (not used much but now and then)
<mirko>
rjeffries: Mirko Vogt :)
<rjeffries>
Ben software is now getting ti a level of maturity that I will invest $125 (with shipping)
<rjeffries>
by the way I am a software guy sorta kinda who loves hardware but is not an EE
<rjeffries>
do not own yet
<rjeffries>
I have easy access to arduino
<rjeffries>
I do not know if he did
<rjeffries>
I know of djbclark. at one point he was going to become distributor (sorta kinda) for sharism
<kristianpaul>
rjeffries: do you have an arduino?
<rjeffries>
yes live in California USA
<kristianpaul>
rjeffries: if, already talked with djbclark ? freedom-included?
<rjeffries>
kristianpaul I care about software yes. bt I have a passion for sensors/actuators etc and see Ben as a cool little "main node" for such a system
<kristianpaul>
rjeffries: are you in the USA?
<rjeffries>
kristianpaul I am close to buying one that is why I attemp to organize a group buy
<wpwrak>
rjeffries: which would make it a self-excluding move :)
<kristianpaul>
rjeffries: as you seems to care in sofware end user side isnt?
<rjeffries>
I figured wolfsproul at 30 something
<kristianpaul>
rjeffries: you shoukd buy one or own it not for a while, you feed back will be wellcome
<rjeffries>
I have offered a group buy to my friends, too soon to see. only two people say yes so far
<wpwrak>
rjeffries: (age of consent for qi-hw at 40) i don't see wolfgang do this for a while :)
<rjeffries>
s/linus/Linux  I make many typos, I confess
<rjeffries>
I have waited for software stability and functionalityu
<rjeffries>
I am a person who is NOT the deep hacker Ben appeals (mainly) to
<rjeffries>
but I will buy at some point
<rjeffries>
I can use his when if I need to
<rjeffries>
to our linus users group
<rjeffries>
no, I do not personally own a Ben. a close friend bought one because I showed it]
<rjeffries>
kristianpaul now you as a SENSITIVE question
<rjeffries>
I suggest wolfsproul write new rules that nobody under og, 40 yrs of age is allowed to participate
<kristianpaul>
rjeffries: You own a Ben right?
<rjeffries>
s/made emy/made my/
<rjeffries>
kristianpaul, you j=have mad emy day. I am serious. yes I am playful, but it hides a serious level
<rjeffries>
I suspect (with high degree of certantity) I am the LEAST young person who follows the qi-hardware community
<rjeffries>
in another 20 years you will be the age of my son. ;)
<rjeffries>
if I spound young, you have given me a GREAT comliment
<rjeffries>
old enough to be either your father or grandfather. how old are you sir? <smile>
<rjeffries>
I am (are you sitting down)???
<kristianpaul>
rjeffries: yes
<rjeffries>
kristiuanpaul was question for me?
<rjeffries>
I hav eexhausted that phase, it takes too much of my LIMITED mental energy. ;)
<rjeffries>
wpwrak part oof carer requires being a PITA to bright creative visionary risk-takers like wolfsproul
<rjeffries>
I'll make a few calls/emails today
<rjeffries>
I am mainly a wanker ;)
<rjeffries>
kristianpaul I actually do know what most of it means, but this is not my area of expertise
<kristianpaul>
rjeffries: no need to know what means just copy and paste values
<wpwrak>
rjeffries: that it's a little board that goes into those receptacles that are marketed as "microsd card holders"
<kristianpaul>
rjeffries: try filling the quote form at batchpcb.com later take care of details
<rjeffries>
not sure what that means sorry. (I am serious)
<wpwrak>
rjeffries: what is is :)
<rjeffries>
finish
<rjeffries>
number if vias
<rjeffries>
critical dimensions
<rjeffries>
thickness
<rjeffries>
number of layers
<rjeffries>
size of pcb
<rjeffries>
I will start out with only teling him the helicopter view