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2016-02-28 04:16 <solrize_> poor channel, nobody talks here any more.  everyone lurks waiting for someone else to say something.
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2016-02-28 07:04 <kyak> oh, finally someone said something!
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2016-02-28 08:22 <eintopf> party!
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2016-02-28 08:48 <DocScrutinizer05> \o/  \o\  /o/  /o\  \o/  /o\  \o/  \o>  <o>  \o/ /o\  <o> _o_
2016-02-28 08:50 <DocScrutinizer05> ~s°/o\° **CLAPP** °g
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2016-02-28 16:18 <wpwrak> hmm. given (independent) secret keys a and b and C(x,y) being the Curve25519 scalar multiplication, we know that C(a, C(b, 9)) == C(b, C(a, 9)). now, does C(x, y) have all the properties of "normal" multiplication, especially is it cummutative and associative ?
2016-02-28 16:19 <wpwrak> if C(x, y) is like "normal" multiplication, then the above is a*(b*9) =[assoc] (a*b)*9 =[commut] (b*a)*9 =[assoc] b*(a*9), where =[foo] means "equals, given <foo>"
2016-02-28 16:21 <wpwrak> so this would explain the equality in understandable terms. alas, the definition of C(x, y) is somewhat cryptic. (well, it's cryptography ...)
2016-02-28 16:36 <wpwrak> of course, when i try it, C(a, B) != C(b, A) :-(   (where A = C(a, 9), etc.). galling.
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2016-02-28 16:53 * wpwrak grumbles about papers using "A" for alice's public key and the reference implementation using "A" for a parameter defining the curve
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2016-02-28 16:55 <wpwrak> alas, C(a, b) != C(b, a). so much about commutative, or keeping things at the level of high-school math :(
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2016-02-28 16:58 <wpwrak> but at least i got the rest right. that's already something
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2016-02-28 18:24 <rjeffries> I wish anelok project had gone forward. It was not exactly what I need/want (to SECURELY store passwords etc), but close enough.
2016-02-28 18:25 <rjeffries> I get by by using 1Password on Android. I ONLY use it as a secure store where I enter and then later look up credentials.
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2016-02-28 18:31 <wpwrak> yeah, anelok is currently in starvation mode. a bit of a vicious circle: no funds -> very limited progress -> long time until marketable product (*) -> no funds
2016-02-28 18:32 <wpwrak> (*) not necessarily the final thing, just something that can be used to get funds
2016-02-28 18:34 <rjeffries> understood. what sucks is you have created what seems to me (I am no expert) a robust architecture for a flexible hardware based password safe.
2016-02-28 18:38 <wpwrak> well, i've created part of it. there are still a number of things missing.
2016-02-28 18:39 <wpwrak> major things, like "on-disk" data structures, wireless communication, host software, etc.
2016-02-28 18:39 <wpwrak> and of course actual hardware for the latest design :)
2016-02-28 18:43 <rjeffries> here's something to consider: there might be a niche market for a device that has no (functioning) wireless at all
2016-02-28 18:44 <rjeffries> I guess I need to go look at what is out there. I use an android mobile phone, then also browsers on e.g. Chrome OS and some Windows.
2016-02-28 18:55 <wpwrak> dropping wireless would certainly simplify things a lot. but then, a lot of people have gone mobile in the last years, so that would be a pretty severe limit
2016-02-28 18:55 <wpwrak> also, a good password is long and cryptic. so using human-assisted data transfer wouldn't be much fun
2016-02-28 18:56 <wpwrak> (of course, anelok does support that. but that should be the fallback / legacy-compatibility choice, not your only option)
2016-02-28 18:57 <wpwrak> so i'm afraid "no wireless" is not much of an option. wrong decade :)
2016-02-28 18:59 <wpwrak> at least the choice to use primary cells is paying off, with lithium becoming substancia non grata on planes: http://avherald.com/h?article=49460e5c
2016-02-28 19:00 <wpwrak> (only as far as cargo is concerned, but still)
2016-02-28 19:04 <rjeffries> I am mainly mobile, and naturally would much prefer a wirless option. and I am sure my passwords are not optimal. but I type them in my hand. grr.
2016-02-28 19:05 <rjeffries> I guess on anelog v. 3 (smile) I'd hope for a somewhat more robust display.
2016-02-28 19:06 <rjeffries> I think primary cells are a smart design tradeoff. I don't remember, do you have ability to monitor how much battery capacity remains? there are some cute chips that do that job.
2016-02-28 19:08 <rjeffries> but they add cost and board space and consume a small amount of power
2016-02-28 19:13 <wpwrak> hmm yes, should connect the battery to some ADC input. not sure how good monitoring would be but can't hurt to have it as an option.
2016-02-28 19:17 <rjeffries> even a +/- 15 percent would help. People will always be nervous about remaininf capacity.
2016-02-28 19:18 <rjeffries> and you could save power by only measuring, oh, maybe once a month?
2016-02-28 19:28 <wpwrak> just connected it to a comparator / ADC input of the cMCU :) so the cMCU can measure the battery voltage. turning this into something actually meaningful is left as an implementation detail ;-)
2016-02-28 19:30 <wpwrak> (accuracy) the problem is that battery chemistry is not very linear. so the battery can recover when not under load, its voltage varies with temperature, and voltage swings (caused by load) increase as the battery discharges
2016-02-28 19:39 <wpwrak> so it may be fairly tricky to get a useful battery status indication. but at least we can now measure the voltage.
2016-02-28 19:39 <wpwrak> thanks ! might be a useful feature
2016-02-28 19:46 <wpwrak> and fixed reverse-charging of the battery as well. one more item off the to do list
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2016-02-28 20:02 <wpwrak> hmm, tweetnacl doesn't export poly1305 (hash function). that's inconvenient ...
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