2015-05-16 01:45 <whitequark> kyak: I have recently learned that cars run entertainment and control systems on the same CPU because some shitbag can save a few dollars
2015-05-16 01:45 <whitequark> I have also learned today that planes run these on the same network
2015-05-16 01:46 <whitequark> I do not belive your claims that automotive has its shit together anymore
2015-05-16 01:47 <wpwrak> maybe it's the less vital control systems. wiper temperature control and such :)
2015-05-16 01:48 <whitequark> nah, ECU and everything
2015-05-16 01:48 <whitequark> direct quote from a proud industry paper
2015-05-16 01:48 <whitequark> https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CEUge2EUMAAOGZP.png
2015-05-16 01:50 <wpwrak> "System resources for braking action required. Please terminate your turn in ''Angry Birds''."
2015-05-16 02:22 <whitequark> (note: the plane thing still might turn out to be shit, though it is already clear it's not a low-effort hoax)
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2015-05-16 06:49 <kyak> whitequark: modern cars have 40+ ECUs, and many times engine/powertrain/entertainment systems are developed by completed different providers and integrated by OEM. Partitioning (both hardware and software) is a vital part of ISO 26262 and DO-178. You are probably right anyway that saving money becomes more important for some manufacturers
2015-05-16 06:49 <kyak> some asshat may come up with a crazy idea to save some money
2015-05-16 06:50 <kyak> what is that car you are talking about?
2015-05-16 06:50 <kyak> i bet it has bumpers made of paper
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2015-05-16 10:59 <whitequark> hm
2015-05-16 10:59 <whitequark> this is the OEM that does it: http://www.redbend.com/en
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2015-05-16 11:35 <kyak> how do you know they do it?
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2015-05-16 11:48 <whitequark> that's a quote from their paper
2015-05-16 12:03 <kyak> interesting.. can you give a link?
2015-05-16 12:05 <whitequark> http://embedded-computing.com/articles/virtualizations-impact-mobile-devices-the-iot/
2015-05-16 12:05 <whitequark> that was the first thing I found googling "automotove virtualization", there are easily more
2015-05-16 12:06 <whitequark> I'm told this is a new trend
2015-05-16 12:08 <whitequark> I would honestly dismiss that as a particularly inane conspiracy theory if that wasn't written in an industry whitepaper
2015-05-16 12:29 <kyak> i see.. it looks more like a "glance into the future"
2015-05-16 12:31 <kyak> there is still a long way to go before it becomes possible (and permitted) in practice
2015-05-16 12:32 <whitequark> they seem to imply it is already being shipped...
2015-05-16 12:32 <whitequark> I mean, yes, that thought did cross my mind
2015-05-16 12:32 <kyak> as far as i know, multicore processors are slowly making their way in automotive industry.. Processors are getting more powerful in general. The idea "why not to run more on the same embedded device" is therefore unavoidable
2015-05-16 12:35 <kyak> embedded operating systems also need to catch up.. so it's a long way to go
2015-05-16 12:36 * whitequark ponders what is the last mfg year from which it is acceptable to buy a car
2015-05-16 12:36 <whitequark> you can't go further than 1999 or so because of emission controls
2015-05-16 12:36 <whitequark> (I think?)
2015-05-16 12:43 <larsc> another trend is putting the car diagnostics into the cloud
2015-05-16 12:45 <kyak> whitequark: if your car is already in Russia, it can be whatever you like - even Euro-0 :) emission regulations apply to newly manufactured and imported cars
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2015-05-16 12:58 <viric> here two insurance companies offer discounts if you allow them to download all recorded digital data from your car
2015-05-16 12:59 <viric> once a year I think
2015-05-16 12:59 <viric> that includes the speed you used at highways, etc.
2015-05-16 13:00 <viric> that's available for high-end cars
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2015-05-16 13:07 <kyak> also re-routes you took to your mistress :)
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2015-05-16 13:59 <viric> kyak: exactly
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2015-05-16 17:55 <whitequark> kyak: yeah I know that
2015-05-16 17:55 <whitequark> but it would be boring to remain inside RU all the time
2015-05-16 18:42 <kyak> if you mean that you won't be allowed into europe on such a vehicle, then my advice is not to bother about travelling to europe in your car anyway. Car rental is a better choice; most of the cost is not from rental, but from petrol
2015-05-16 18:43 <whitequark> that defeats the point of having a car that doesn't have half of its brain in some cloud
2015-05-16 18:43 <whitequark> but otherwise, yeah
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2015-05-16 18:44 <kyak> i went from berlin to munster one weekend, and i paid majority of money for petrol, not for rental =\
2015-05-16 18:44 <whitequark> I don't /travel/ on a car, that's silly. planes and trains ftw
2015-05-16 18:44 <whitequark> I do want one for work though
2015-05-16 18:45 <kyak> do you mean, going to work?
2015-05-16 18:45 <whitequark> no, using it for work. I have spent the last few months, and few weeks especially, manufacturing a vacuum chamber
2015-05-16 18:45 <whitequark> and all contractors are invariably located in some industrial zone in the outskirts of Moscow
2015-05-16 18:46 <whitequark> I have probably spent more in traffic jams on MKAD than all my previous life combined
2015-05-16 18:46 <kyak> yeah, that can be bad
2015-05-16 18:47 <kyak> what's you current car?
2015-05-16 18:51 <whitequark> I don't have one
2015-05-16 18:51 <whitequark> not even a license
2015-05-16 18:51 <kyak> did you take taxi (you said MKAD)?
2015-05-16 18:53 <kyak> anyway, don't bother about any of the modern middle-range cars being in cloud :) they are not yet
2015-05-16 18:54 <whitequark> kyak: I did, but mostly it was in маршрутка
2015-05-16 18:54 <whitequark> if you want to get from a metro station to a suburb, it invariably involves a few km over MKAD
2015-05-16 18:55 <whitequark> the inner-city ones don't do that, of course, but I've been taking the suburban ones
2015-05-16 18:55 <whitequark> like to Балашиха or something
2015-05-16 18:58 <whitequark> right now in Балашиха, in fact, in the machine shop that does tumbling
2015-05-16 18:59 <whitequark> Saturday, 22:00, the director of this shop is here, natch, doing some odd fuckery to a stuck bearing or something
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2015-05-16 19:00 <whitequark> it used to be a company that distributes machine equipment such as tumblers or hydraulic presses or something, but then sanctions came and he converted the machinery he had for demos to pay for itself instead
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2015-05-16 19:40 <kyak> Балашиха.. my home town for the last two years :)
2015-05-16 19:42 <whitequark> ah huh. I'm at Лесной городок bus stop, or rather near it
2015-05-16 19:45 <kyak> damn you should be going home :)
2015-05-16 19:45 <whitequark> pffff not done here yet
2015-05-16 19:47 <kyak> reading back, what's "tumbling"? and "tumbler"
2015-05-16 19:47 <whitequark> a method of polishing by vibrating your workpiece in a large box of tumbling media
2015-05-16 19:47 <whitequark> usually alumina or zinconia balls
2015-05-16 19:48 <whitequark> well, more like... a method of surface finishing
2015-05-16 19:48 <kyak> i kind of understand.. what's it in russian?
2015-05-16 19:48 <kyak> полировка?
2015-05-16 19:48 <whitequark> галтовка
2015-05-16 19:48 <whitequark> doesn't help, does it
2015-05-16 19:49 <kyak> sure does not. .that strange feeling when i don't know the word in russian as well :)
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2015-05-16 19:49 <whitequark> i did not know the russian term but the chief engineer slash executive of this shop knew the english one
2015-05-16 19:50 <kyak> do you have all you need to do you want, anyway?
2015-05-16 19:50 <whitequark> what do you mean?
2015-05-16 19:51 <kyak> al you needed for the vacumm chamber
2015-05-16 19:51 <whitequark> I have... most parts
2015-05-16 19:51 <whitequark> I'm redesing one right now because the person I have contracted to weld it says the weld will fail after cycling
2015-05-16 19:53 <kyak> you are doing some crazy shit.. i'm proud of you.. just saying :)
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2015-05-16 19:57 <kyak> whitequark: what's your plan for that vacuum chamber?
2015-05-16 19:57 <kyak> what does it do? what can it do?
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2015-05-16 20:36 <whitequark> it's a universal kinda thing, not done for a particular process
2015-05-16 20:36 <whitequark> I will do RIE and magnetron sputtering in it
2015-05-16 20:37 <whitequark> also a vacuum induction oven
2015-05-16 20:37 <whitequark> to melt metals you can't melt at atmospheric pressure
2015-05-16 20:52 <whitequark> we,,ll, more like with atmospheric oxygen