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2015-04-02 04:06 <rjeffries> wpwrak would sense to add anelok in the description for this channel. More a focus that Ben NanoNote these days
2015-04-02 04:30 <wpwrak> psst .. not so loud. you wouldn't want to scare my internet connection.
2015-04-02 04:30 <wpwrak> for it's a shy and fragile thing ...
2015-04-02 04:31 <rjeffries> Ok
2015-04-02 04:33 <wpwrak> regarding adding anelok to the channel topic, well, if anyone does it, it won't complain. not sure if anyone actually pays attention to these things, though :)
2015-04-02 04:38 kyak changed the topic of #qi-hardware to: Copyleft hardware - http://qi-hardware.com | hardware hackers join here to discuss Ben NanoNote, atben/atusb 802.15.4 wireless, anelok and other community driven hw projects | public logging at http://en.qi-hardware.com/irclogs and http://irclog.whitequark.org/qi-hardware
2015-04-02 04:39 <kyak> sudo topic :)
2015-04-02 04:40 <wpwrak> whee ! thanks ! :)
2015-04-02 04:41 <DocScrutinizer05> ??
2015-04-02 04:41 <DocScrutinizer05> ooh anelok
2015-04-02 04:42 <rjeffries> what is this Ben Anelok of which you speak?
2015-04-02 04:42 <wpwrak> it has a nice "low battery" indication: the display flickers heavily, yet the device's power situation is still very far from upsetting the CPU
2015-04-02 04:43 <DocScrutinizer05> fair enough
2015-04-02 04:44 <wpwrak> (looking at the one unit that's been on battery power since march 28. still operational, despite a "standby" current of some 0.9 mA. it does seem to drain the 2032 about twice as fast as i would have expected. but then, 0.9 mA is pretty abnormal anyway.)
2015-04-02 04:45 <rjeffries> Double A is looking better and better
2015-04-02 04:46 <wpwrak> AA is very big. AAA may be necessary, though. but let's see. i'd like to keep the small form factor. AAA would add a bulge and also make it less symmetric.
2015-04-02 04:46 <rjeffries> nods
2015-04-02 04:47 <rjeffries> One could conceive of industrial design of case that is round on bottom. might feel nice in the hand.
2015-04-02 04:48 <wpwrak> overall volume would go up by some 20%. not horrible, but every cubic mm counts
2015-04-02 04:48 <wpwrak> hmm, i think it would be more like a wedge
2015-04-02 04:49 <wpwrak> save some mm by not having the PCB under/above the battery
2015-04-02 04:49 <rjeffries> nods
2015-04-02 04:52 <DocScrutinizer05> that might actually look nice and ergonomic
2015-04-02 04:52 <wpwrak> and hell to make with my mill :)
2015-04-02 04:52 <DocScrutinizer05> that too
2015-04-02 04:53 <DocScrutinizer05> you obviously need a whole new case concept for that
2015-04-02 04:53 <rjeffries> I'm thinking it might be rather cool. There's a high-end music player out recently that if memory serves, is packaged in a triangular shape case, nt sure why they did it
2015-04-02 04:54 <wpwrak> but yes, it may look fairly nice. not so sure about ergonomic. the current design is pretty good for two-hand operation. one hand would be an option ... ah, lemme try it ...
2015-04-02 04:54 <DocScrutinizer05> hmm, we need a sketch
2015-04-02 04:54 <DocScrutinizer05> you lost me
2015-04-02 04:55 <wpwrak> wow, feels very weird. the behaviour of the slider chances quite a bit if you touch it with the side of the thumb
2015-04-02 04:55 <DocScrutinizer05> since I'm poor at sketching, is it faintly like http://www.voelkner.de/products/38974/Pult-Gehaeuse-Hit-Pult.html what we're talking about?
2015-04-02 04:57 <wpwrak> yes, that sort of shape
2015-04-02 04:58 <DocScrutinizer05> looks ideal for placing on a table
2015-04-02 04:58 <DocScrutinizer05> I know the size and weight is so small it gets tricky with attached cables
2015-04-02 04:59 <wpwrak> anelok is more the hand-held type. and yes, if you connect a cable, the cable rules, not the inertia of the device :)
2015-04-02 05:00 <DocScrutinizer05> anyway that shape of case seems pretty feasible even with your mill
2015-04-02 05:01 <DocScrutinizer05> just the concept of 2 quasi-symmetric halfes would have to change
2015-04-02 05:02 <DocScrutinizer05> rather build it similar to what's shown in http://www.voelkner.de/products/38974/Pult-Gehaeuse-Hit-Pult.html
2015-04-02 05:02 <DocScrutinizer05> regarding shape of parts
2015-04-02 05:03 <wpwrak> (inertia) 18.2 g :) but with some extra cables that wouldn't be in a "normal" device
2015-04-02 05:03 <DocScrutinizer05> up to you if you make the flat part the bottom or the display
2015-04-02 05:04 <DocScrutinizer05> 18.2g suffice for a USB plugged to center of "backside"
2015-04-02 05:04 <DocScrutinizer05> T
2015-04-02 05:05 <DocScrutinizer05> might even work for 90° angle USB plug and L
2015-04-02 05:05 <wpwrak> well, the connector is on the "front" side. actually has better mechanical properties (though it's there simply because that's how i could make everything fit)
2015-04-02 05:05 <wpwrak> see also http://anelok.com/test/
2015-04-02 05:06 <DocScrutinizer05> ooh, then no problem
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2015-04-02 05:21 <DocScrutinizer05> prolly even better would be jack on left or right small side, with a mandatory 90° plug cable
2015-04-02 05:27 <wpwrak> with this form factor, that's not possible. i have the battery on one side and the antenna on the other. with a wedge, the AAA battery would be on a long side and i'd put USB on a short side.
2015-04-02 05:27 <wpwrak> but i wouldn't require 90 deg cables ;-)
2015-04-02 05:28 <DocScrutinizer05> wpwrak: a straight cable will tirn you device along long axis
2015-04-02 05:28 <DocScrutinizer05> turn*
2015-04-02 05:29 <DocScrutinizer05> maybe you could put the USB to backside, next to left or right corner. Then you need straight cable
2015-04-02 05:32 <DocScrutinizer05> AAA max length 44.50mm
2015-04-02 05:33 <DocScrutinizer05> plus holder
2015-04-02 05:33 <DocScrutinizer05> usb would add a ?? 5mm on top, 8mm?
2015-04-02 05:34 <DocScrutinizer05> maybe you can find a way to mount it upright (tricky) then it's only a 3mm max
2015-04-02 05:34 <wpwrak> usb would be at Y- of the AAA. since the AAA is very fat, there wuold be plenty of Z room for USB (USB is also fat, but now nearly as bad as AAA)
2015-04-02 05:36 <wpwrak> cable forces are not such a big issue. if they're inconvenient, then you just grab the connector
2015-04-02 05:36 <DocScrutinizer05> please rephrase
2015-04-02 05:36 <wpwrak> AAA axis would be parallel to X axis. let's say Y = Z = 0
2015-04-02 05:37 <wpwrak> then USB insertion movement would also be parallel to X, maybe Y = -10 mm, Z = whatever works
2015-04-02 05:38 <DocScrutinizer05> a micro USB receptacle is deeper than wide
2015-04-02 05:38 <wpwrak> i.e., AAA would be "rear", then USB, similar to where it's on the Ben, then the thin side of the wedge
2015-04-02 05:38 <wpwrak> mmh, i don't think so. lemme check ...
2015-04-02 05:39 <DocScrutinizer05> how wide is anelok now?
2015-04-02 05:39 <wpwrak> (in any case, depth is no issue)
2015-04-02 05:39 <wpwrak> see anelok.com/test :)
2015-04-02 05:39 <DocScrutinizer05> I don't see any measures there
2015-04-02 05:39 <wpwrak> did you hover ?
2015-04-02 05:39 <DocScrutinizer05> occasionally
2015-04-02 05:40 <DocScrutinizer05> well it's easter, nevertheless
2015-04-02 05:40 <wpwrak> hover over the case and you get the measures
2015-04-02 05:40 <DocScrutinizer05> aha
2015-04-02 05:40 <DocScrutinizer05> you really should add tags
2015-04-02 05:40 <DocScrutinizer05> visible tags to hover
2015-04-02 05:40 <wpwrak> micro-usb: depth 5-5.6 mm, width 7.5-8.8 mm, height 2.5-3 mm
2015-04-02 05:41 <DocScrutinizer05> toldya
2015-04-02 05:41 <wpwrak> there's a reason why it's called "test" :)
2015-04-02 05:41 <wpwrak> you said deeper than wide :)
2015-04-02 05:41 <DocScrutinizer05> oops
2015-04-02 05:41 <DocScrutinizer05> right
2015-04-02 05:41 <DocScrutinizer05> sorry, no coffee
2015-04-02 05:43 <DocScrutinizer05> anyway, a upright "riser" board for one of the battery contacts and the USB would result in convenient 3mm X width for the USB, heading to back of case which is higher than 8.8mm
2015-04-02 05:44 <DocScrutinizer05> such "riser" board easily fixes into two slots in case
2015-04-02 05:44 <DocScrutinizer05> just an idea
2015-04-02 05:45 <DocScrutinizer05> I see anelok X = 67 mm now, AAA = 45.50mm max
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2015-04-02 05:46 <DocScrutinizer05> AAA dia max: 10.50mm
2015-04-02 05:50 <DocScrutinizer05> HEY, you prolly even could use the very USB jack sleeve for minus/GND contact of AAA
2015-04-02 05:50 <DocScrutinizer05> ;-D
2015-04-02 05:51 <DocScrutinizer05> well, maybe the shape isn't ideal for this purpose
2015-04-02 05:51 <wpwrak> no, it isn't :)
2015-04-02 05:52 <wpwrak> and i wouldn't put the connector at X+ of the battery, but at Y-
2015-04-02 05:52 <DocScrutinizer05> why?
2015-04-02 05:52 <wpwrak> think part of the wedge = battery. medium part = connectors. thin part = just PCB and thin stuff
2015-04-02 05:53 <wpwrak> s/think/thick/
2015-04-02 05:53 <qi-bot> wpwrak meant: "thick part of the wedge = battery. medium part = connectors. thin part = just PCB and thin stuff"
2015-04-02 05:53 <wpwrak> argl
2015-04-02 05:53 <wpwrak> the battery is already very long. adding somthing to make the assembly even longer would be bad
2015-04-02 05:54 <DocScrutinizer05> I see anelok X = 67 mm now, AAA = 45.50mm max
2015-04-02 05:54 <DocScrutinizer05> you're actually wasting space
2015-04-02 05:54 <wpwrak> i would then put the slider on top of the battery
2015-04-02 05:55 <wpwrak> so it would be on the long side
2015-04-02 05:55 <DocScrutinizer05> that makes think end even bulkier, no?
2015-04-02 05:56 <wpwrak> not really. the slider is thin. else, i would have a lot of completely unused case surface
2015-04-02 05:57 <DocScrutinizer05> ok
2015-04-02 05:57 <DocScrutinizer05> sidenote on lanyard hole: not very suited for keyrings
2015-04-02 05:57 <DocScrutinizer05> but then...
2015-04-02 05:59 <DocScrutinizer05> I mean, for a ring the thing should be as wide as it's deep
2015-04-02 05:59 <wpwrak> no keyring :)
2015-04-02 05:59 <DocScrutinizer05> ideally with rounded edges of the hole anyway
2015-04-02 05:59 <wpwrak> but a standard lanyard fits very nicely
2015-04-02 06:00 <DocScrutinizer05> you want at least a 1mm radius there
2015-04-02 06:00 <wpwrak> naw, where would be the fun in that ? they have to be razor-sharp, with a diamond inlay so that they cut through the lanyard within seconds ;-))
2015-04-02 06:00 <DocScrutinizer05> exactly
2015-04-02 06:00 <DocScrutinizer05> ;-)
2015-04-02 06:02 <wpwrak> the standard cell phone / camera type lanyards seem to fit nicely. i tried the one from my ancient garmin, which is the usual size (goes around the neck, not the smaller ones from cameras that go around the wrist)
2015-04-02 06:03 <wpwrak> i was too lazy to round the edges, though. but the nylon or whatever it is made of appear to be tough enough :)
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2015-04-02 12:47 <rjeffries> wpwrak your "what if" discussion re revised case w/AAA rather than CR2032 is encouraging
2015-04-02 12:49 <rjeffries> looking at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AAA_battery
2015-04-02 12:54 <rjeffries> one benefit is in AAA size is variety of batter chemistries available.
2015-04-02 12:57 <rjeffries> Lithium Iron Disulfide Li FeS2 has advantage of exceptionally low self-discharge if I understand correctly
2015-04-02 12:57 <rjeffries> http://gadgetsandgear.net/Data%20Sheets/Cn%20data%20sheets/FR03%20Data%20Sheet.pdf
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2015-04-02 23:14 <wpwrak> hmm, seems that the nighttime internet curfew is beginning again ...