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2015-03-31 01:06 <GitHub164> [13j1soc] 15kristianpaul pushed 1 new commit to 06master: 02https://github.com/kristianpaul/j1soc/commit/7633b712734d149c6719c227edd0d709a23e3f15
2015-03-31 01:06 <GitHub164> 13j1soc/06master 147633b71 15Cristian Paul Penaranda Rojas: Update to 14.6 ISE
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2015-03-31 01:08 <kristianpaul> eww
2015-03-31 01:08 <kristianpaul> that stills works :p
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2015-03-31 02:29 <wpwrak> kristianpaul: great, eh ? :)
2015-03-31 02:32 <wpwrak> xiangfu: heya ! how's life ? in the last days, i made a bit of progress with anelok. after the boost converter rework, it can run on battery power. at least the basic system (MCU and OLED). so i'd recommend applying the rework to the devices you have as well.
2015-03-31 02:33 <xiangfu> wpwrak: great. I am slow on anelok. I will try that.
2015-03-31 02:34 <wpwrak> xiangfu: we may see problems with the memory card, though. the worst-case power demand of these cards can go up to 300 mW, while the CR2032 can at best deliver a bit more than 100 mW.
2015-03-31 02:35 <wpwrak> what i don't know yet is how bad they are in real life. presumably a lot nicer than that, but only measurements will tell.
2015-03-31 02:35 <wpwrak> if they need more power than the battery can supply, then the current design won't work and we'll have to switch to AAA or such :-(
2015-03-31 02:37 <wpwrak> (current design) that is, mainly the mechanical design. the electrical side would almost be identical. to if one doesn't mind an ugly case, the same PCB could be used. at least in theory :)
2015-03-31 02:41 <wpwrak> for experimenting with the memory card, i'd like to integrate some things from your code. i think it may be easiest if i just cherry-pick, so you don't have to generate pull requests. does that sound okay for you ?
2015-03-31 02:45 <xiangfu> sure.
2015-03-31 02:45 <xiangfu> Yes. free feel to cherry-pick
2015-03-31 02:50 <wpwrak> great. i'll do this during the long easter weekend.
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2015-03-31 08:12 <DocScrutinizer05> wpwrak: ((presumably a lot nicer than that)) uSD? don't bet on that, constant writes on uSD heat them up to temperatures where you start to worry
2015-03-31 08:13 <DocScrutinizer05> then otoh *reads* are prolly way nicer, due to operation principles
2015-03-31 08:15 <DocScrutinizer05> how about CR2045?
2015-03-31 08:16 <DocScrutinizer05> wouldn't change THAT jmuch on your design, only 1 1.3mm higher case, right?
2015-03-31 08:16 <DocScrutinizer05> s/ 1 / a /
2015-03-31 08:16 <qi-bot> DocScrutinizer05 meant: "wouldn't change THAT jmuch on your design, only a 1.3mm higher case, right?"
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2015-03-31 11:18 <wpwrak> (much nicer) well, the idea is to use the memory card only very infrequently, especially writes. and we can go slowly - do a sector, take a break for a few dozen milliseconds, etc.
2015-03-31 11:19 <wpwrak> cr2045 seems a bit on the exotic side, isn't it ? digi-key don't even have that type
2015-03-31 11:25 <wpwrak> 2450 seems to be somewhat common. internal resistance is still pretty high, though
2015-03-31 11:26 <wpwrak> about 12-15 ohm for cr2450 vs. 20 ohm for cr2032
2015-03-31 11:33 <wpwrak> if we assume an ideal cell voltage of 2.8 V, then max power of 2032 is ~100 mW and of 2450 ~160 mW
2015-03-31 11:34 <wpwrak> but yes, it could be a possibility luckily, anelok's battery holder is on a separate board, so it's very easy to accommodate other cells :)
2015-03-31 11:34 <wpwrak> i hadn't even thought of other coins. thanks !
2015-03-31 11:36 <DocScrutinizer05> yw
2015-03-31 11:36 <DocScrutinizer05> ((much nicer)) the suspected problem case is page erase
2015-03-31 11:36 <DocScrutinizer05> you hardly can mitigate that
2015-03-31 11:37 <DocScrutinizer05> only way: provide buffer energy ("Hasso! Schlafende!") sufficient for one page erase
2015-03-31 11:41 <wpwrak> for the first round of devices, i could just buffer writes in internal flash, then commit them to the memory card when there's plenty of power. not ideal, but one would hardly notice
2015-03-31 11:42 <wpwrak> and i did the calculations for buffering worst-case power. it should actually be possible, but you need a fat supercap for it.
2015-03-31 11:44 <DocScrutinizer05> http://www.zubrod-net.de/Orion/Episode-2.pdf p.7
2015-03-31 11:45 <wpwrak> not the usual coin type or other small ones (internal resistance way too high) but there are some larger blocks that have a low resistance. not cheap, though, some USD 5+ apiece @ 1000 at digi-key
2015-03-31 11:45 <wpwrak> e.g., this critter: http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/BZ055B153ZSB/478-3645-ND/1045919
2015-03-31 11:46 <DocScrutinizer05> or you siply go for two cr2015 in series
2015-03-31 11:47 <DocScrutinizer05> wouldn't even need major rework in battery holder, I guess
2015-03-31 11:48 <DocScrutinizer05> double voltage, half the current
2015-03-31 11:48 <DocScrutinizer05> needs buck converter then
2015-03-31 11:48 <DocScrutinizer05> well, they're 'cheap'
2015-03-31 11:49 <wpwrak> 2016 ? would need to change the converter, yes. the current one is only step-up
2015-03-31 11:50 <DocScrutinizer05> go for buck/boost type, should be "compatible"
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2015-03-31 11:51 <wpwrak> resistance is the same as 2032, so one could indeed draw more juice
2015-03-31 11:51 <DocScrutinizer05> evidently, since you only need half the current at twice the voltage for same energy
2015-03-31 11:54 <DocScrutinizer05> of course, if the cr2016 had tiwce the ESR than CR2032, it would be a zero-sum equation
2015-03-31 11:55 <wpwrak> yup
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2015-03-31 11:56 <wpwrak> but if i make major changes, i'd probably go to AAA then. ESR drops by some two orders of magnitude
2015-03-31 11:59 <wpwrak> i actually tried to feed my current boost critter with a low voltage, but it didn't like that for some reason. may be a lab effect, though - they specifically warn about the inductance of long feed lines from the lab power supply
2015-03-31 12:02 <wpwrak> the chop should be good down to 0.85 V to start, 0.5 V when running. idle current is too high, though, 0.5 mA, but there's a close cousin from TI that's much better
2015-03-31 12:04 <wpwrak> (lab effect) also, they're weasling in their reference circuit: the caps they specify are 4.7 uF, so they look all nice and efficient, but then they mention that this is effective capacitance, so you really need a bigger cap because real-life caps usually don't have their nominal capacitance when you actually make them do something
2015-03-31 12:06 <wpwrak> that's another pending rework item. and the we'll see if the critter can handle an alcaline from the next supermarket. i mean, even logitech can do it in their mice, so how hard can it be ? ;-)
2015-03-31 12:11 <DocScrutinizer05> should work
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2015-03-31 12:41 <DocScrutinizer05> well, even AAAA are too weak it seems: http://data.energizer.com/PDFs/E96.pdf
2015-03-31 12:42 <DocScrutinizer05> AAA prolly should work
2015-03-31 12:43 <DocScrutinizer05> yeah, easily http://data.energizer.com/PDFs/XR91.pdf
2015-03-31 12:48 <DocScrutinizer05> http://data.energizer.com/ is quite convenient site
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2015-03-31 12:54 <wpwrak> AAAA ... heh, another exotic type :)
2015-03-31 12:55 <wpwrak> i want to stay mainstream. the sort of batteries you can find in a village you visit for the first time and where you don't speak the local language :)
2015-03-31 12:58 <wpwrak> i.e., AA >> AA > CR2032. but then AA would be rather big.
2015-03-31 12:59 <DocScrutinizer05> go for AAA then
2015-03-31 12:59 <DocScrutinizer05> even CR2032 are sort of tricky
2015-03-31 13:00 <DocScrutinizer05> and friggin expensive
2015-03-31 13:01 <wpwrak> around here they're about 50 us-cents apiece if you buy a bunch. else, about 80 us-cents. so they must be single-digit cents in the rest of the world :)
2015-03-31 13:20 <paul_boddie> Argentina provides the "distressed economy" test, I guess. ;-)
2015-03-31 13:25 <wpwrak> guess that's happens when beavis and butthead grow up and become ministers
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2015-03-31 13:28 <paul_boddie> Wonder how much they are here... 29 NOK!
2015-03-31 13:29 <paul_boddie> I was reading about Argentine political history not that long ago. Enlightening and rather sad.
2015-03-31 13:29 <wpwrak> elections are in october. there will be a reckoning.
2015-03-31 13:30 <wpwrak> NOK 29 = USD 3.6. that's for how many CR2032 ?
2015-03-31 13:31 <paul_boddie> Just one at expensive retailer: http://www.clasohlson.com/no/Varta-litium-batterier/32-2236
2015-03-31 13:33 <paul_boddie> Their UK shop is as expensive. Will look closer when next in the supermarket.
2015-03-31 13:33 <wpwrak> wow, nice margin ;-)
2015-03-31 13:34 <wpwrak> first hit on ebay: http://www.ebay.com/itm/5-Energizer-2032-Battery-CR2032-Lithium-3v-Batteries-/280639218596
2015-03-31 13:35 <wpwrak> for really good prices, you may want to get 100 or so. like this: http://articulo.mercadolibre.com.ar/MLA-545118517-100-pilas-cr2032-sony-litio-boton-20blister-x5und-en-caja-_JM
2015-03-31 13:36 <wpwrak> that's ARS 500, so about 50-60 US-cents
2015-03-31 13:36 <wpwrak> apiece
2015-03-31 13:37 <paul_boddie> The amusing thing about Clas Ohlson's "own brand" cells is that there's a review by some Swedish person...
2015-03-31 13:38 <paul_boddie> ...complaining that they used one in their banking code generator and it immediately complained about a low battery. Caveat emptor!
2015-03-31 13:38 <wpwrak> well, if someone is gullible enough to pay at that price, ...
2015-03-31 13:39 <wpwrak> hmm. s/pay/buy/ || s/ at//
2015-03-31 13:40 <paul_boddie> The cheap ones seem to work in kitchen scales and such things OK, in my experience.
2015-03-31 13:40 <wpwrak> if you want cheap and don't mind if it's alkalines and not button cells, how about this lovely deal ? http://www.ebay.com/itm/100-AAA-ALKALINE-LOOSE-BATTERIES-/121560854139?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item1c4d976e7b
2015-03-31 13:41 <wpwrak> somebody must have been robbing the trash bins
2015-03-31 13:42 <larsc> 'these have been in our warehouse for a few years and the boxes got water damaged'
2015-03-31 13:43 <paul_boddie> Of course, corroding coin cells are a real peril with old computers.
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2015-03-31 13:47 <wpwrak> never saw a coin cell corrode. alkaline, though, armies of them ...
2015-03-31 13:56 <paul_boddie> larsc: Looking at the jz4740 PWM driver, it appears usable for the jz4730 at a glance, but I think the pin assignments differ.
2015-03-31 13:57 <larsc> yea, that's kind of expected
2015-03-31 13:58 <larsc> let me have a quick look at the datasheet
2015-03-31 13:59 <paul_boddie> wpwrak: http://www.retro-kit.co.uk/page.cfm/content/Acorn-BBC-A3000-Battery-Maintenance/
2015-03-31 13:59 <pcercuei> that's not a problem
2015-03-31 13:59 <paul_boddie> wpwrak: Although that's technically not a coin cell.
2015-03-31 13:59 <pcercuei> the PWM driver doesn't know anything about the pin assignment
2015-03-31 14:00 <paul_boddie> jz4740_pwm_gpio_list mentions JZ_GPIO_PWM0 through JZ_GPIO_PWM7
2015-03-31 14:00 <paul_boddie> JZ_GPIO_PORTD(23) through JZ_GPIO_PORTD(31), apparently.
2015-03-31 14:01 <pcercuei> because that's old code
2015-03-31 14:01 <pcercuei> we have an updated one: https://github.com/gcwnow/linux/blob/jz-3.19/drivers/pwm/pwm-jz4740.c
2015-03-31 14:01 <paul_boddie> Is that going to be merged upstream at some point?
2015-03-31 14:02 <pcercuei> that's the plan
2015-03-31 14:02 <pcercuei> but I need larsc to finish the pinctrl driver first :)
2015-03-31 14:02 <pcercuei> (since this updated driver requires that you have a pinctrl driver)
2015-03-31 14:03 <paul_boddie> Linux dependency hell! ;-)
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2015-03-31 15:29 <paul_boddie> Is it worth following device tree work for jz47xx? If so, where should I be following?
2015-03-31 15:29 <larsc> yes
2015-03-31 15:30 <larsc> non-devicetree is not going to be supported in the future
2015-03-31 15:34 <paul_boddie> I see that there's some jz4770 DT stuff, and maybe the MIPS people did some jz4780 DT stuff as well.
2015-03-31 15:36 <whitequark> wpwrak: that's because coin cells use methanol for electrolyte
2015-03-31 15:36 <whitequark> they're not really "battery" cells
2015-03-31 15:36 <whitequark> they're more like fuel cells with a semipermeable membrane
2015-03-31 15:36 <whitequark> and metallic li
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2015-03-31 15:47 <pcercuei> there's some jz4740 stuff as well
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2015-03-31 15:54 <paul_boddie> I found a 3.18 branch in gcwnow for DT, but is that the "most upstream" place?
2015-03-31 15:55 <pcercuei> qi-hardware is the "most upstream" for jz4740, gcwnow is the "most upstream" for jz4770, MIPS/CI20_Linux is the "most upstream" for jz4780 :)
2015-03-31 15:56 <paul_boddie> I meant for DT. I didn't think the qi-kernel repo was being updated any more.
2015-03-31 15:57 <pcercuei> ah, then it's the jz4780 tree from the MIPS guys
2015-03-31 15:57 <pcercuei> we started moving our jz4770 tree to DT some months ago, but some parts (e.g. clocks driver) aren't easy
2015-03-31 15:58 <paul_boddie> OK. I'll have a look at what the MIPS people have for DT.
2015-03-31 15:58 <paul_boddie> Short of that, I'm tempted to do some dirty hacks to see if the "old" jz4740 PWM driver can be tweaked to work with jz4730 pin assignments.
2015-03-31 15:59 <paul_boddie> I think the timer/counter registers are the same between the jz4730 and jz4740.
2015-03-31 15:59 <pcercuei> if you want to do it cleanly, bump larsc - IIRC he has a pinctrl driver ready for jz4740
2015-03-31 16:00 <pcercuei> the pin assignments are done in DT so it would probably work on jz4730 as well
2015-03-31 16:00 <pcercuei> (e.g. we use the exact same pinctrl driver for jz4770 and jz4780 now)
2015-03-31 16:00 <pcercuei> if the subsystem didn't change too much it may even be used for older versions
2015-03-31 16:04 <paul_boddie> I think the confusing thing when looking at the old (2.6) code is, apart from kernel coding changes, the way some things like PWM are done.
2015-03-31 16:05 <paul_boddie> It's hard to tell from vendor code, though, as they dump their internal knowledge to C.
2015-03-31 16:06 <paul_boddie> But since the timer/counter unit looks the same, we can probably ignore weird vendor stuff and go the tried and tested route.
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2015-03-31 17:14 <eintopf> https://www.amazon.com/oc/dash-button
2015-03-31 17:15 <eintopf> wpwrak: that's like the shaver which buys blades when they are empty
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2015-03-31 17:49 <paul_boddie> eintopf: Hope it has built-in "surge protection" for when someone's child presses the button for chocolate a hundred times. :-)
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2015-03-31 18:30 <arossdotme> what is the resistor value to put across a usb socket to that connects to a usb charger to get max current?
2015-03-31 18:31 <arossdotme> i'm making up a micro usb socket pwr input adaptor for my zipit.
2015-03-31 18:31 <arossdotme> so i can use a standard microusb socket to charge/pwr my device
2015-03-31 18:32 <arossdotme> where would i find this info, in the usb doc? isn't such info hard to find in the doc?
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