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#qi-hardware 2015-01-08 09:01 valhalla has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 2015-01-08 09:03 valhalla has joined #qi-hardware 2015-01-08 09:18 jekhor_ has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 2015-01-08 09:30 pcercuei has joined #qi-hardware 2015-01-08 09:43 xiangfu has quit [Quit: leaving] 2015-01-08 10:15 jekhor_ has joined #qi-hardware 2015-01-08 10:24 jekhor__ has joined #qi-hardware 2015-01-08 10:28 jekhor_ has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 2015-01-08 10:37 archang has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 2015-01-08 10:47 atommann has quit [Quit: Leaving] 2015-01-08 11:05 fmeerkoetter has joined #qi-hardware 2015-01-08 11:54 wej has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 2015-01-08 12:00 wej has joined #qi-hardware 2015-01-08 12:51 idundidit has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 2015-01-08 12:55 [commit] Werner Almesberger: slicer/README: correct style and a typo (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/cae-tools/73c0489 2015-01-08 12:55 [commit] Werner Almesberger: slicer/stl.c, stl.h: copy over from Neo900 misc/meme/ (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/cae-tools/632a60f 2015-01-08 12:55 [commit] Werner Almesberger: slicer/stl.h, stl.c: adapt for use in slicer (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/cae-tools/5f31b94 2015-01-08 12:55 [commit] Werner Almesberger: slicer/slice.h, slice.c, util.h: extract outlines of Z slices from mesh (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/cae-tools/49abc13 2015-01-08 12:55 [commit] Werner Almesberger: slicer/slice.c (add): only output lower end of vertical walls (still needs work) (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/cae-tools/3f2c6cd 2015-01-08 12:55 [commit] Werner Almesberger: slicer/stl.c (stl_load_file): support binary STL as well (on little-endian hosts) (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/cae-tools/c82ea10 2015-01-08 12:55 [commit] Werner Almesberger: slicer/slice.c: repeat lower cuts at intermediate points (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/cae-tools/6a12d47 2015-01-08 12:55 [commit] Werner Almesberger: slicer/stl.c: mention where the format is documented (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/cae-tools/c984021 2015-01-08 12:55 [commit] Werner Almesberger: slicer/slice.c (add): detect and report inclined facets (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/cae-tools/a30024d 2015-01-08 12:55 [commit] Werner Almesberger: slicer/stl.c (stl_load_binary): remove debug output (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/cae-tools/65fa69c 2015-01-08 12:55 [commit] Werner Almesberger: slicer/slice.c, slice.h: optionally draw a box around the object (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/cae-tools/6b7ceca 2015-01-08 12:55 [commit] Werner Almesberger: slicer/Makefile, slicer.c: forgot to commit these files :-( (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/cae-tools/aa327c8 2015-01-08 12:55 [commit] Werner Almesberger: slicer/slice.c (dump_layer): don't draw the top end of walls (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/cae-tools/9fc0962 2015-01-08 12:55 [commit] Werner Almesberger: slicer/: new option -z to add intermediate layers (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/cae-tools/b2d6ef5 2015-01-08 12:56 C-C-C-COMBO BREAKER 2015-01-08 12:56 phew :) http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/combo-breaker 2015-01-08 12:57 FAMAS has joined #qi-hardware 2015-01-08 12:58 FAMAS has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 2015-01-08 12:59 FAMAS has joined #qi-hardware 2015-01-08 13:00 (giving freecad another try. but without having to suffer crappy toolpaths in return :) 2015-01-08 15:16 jekhor__ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 2015-01-08 15:16 xiangfu has joined #qi-hardware 2015-01-08 15:16 jekhor__ has joined #qi-hardware 2015-01-08 15:28 xiangfu has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 2015-01-08 15:36 Nik05 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 2015-01-08 15:37 Nik05 has joined #qi-hardware 2015-01-08 16:08 rejon has joined #qi-hardware 2015-01-08 16:16 idundidit has joined #qi-hardware 2015-01-08 16:31 atommann has joined #qi-hardware 2015-01-08 16:34 sb0 has quit [Quit: Leaving] 2015-01-08 16:49 fmeerkoetter has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 2015-01-08 16:53 jekhor__ has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 2015-01-08 16:54 atommann has quit [Quit: Leaving] 2015-01-08 17:42 pcercuei: I tend to agree 2015-01-08 17:43 posting commit messages to IRC is kinda abusive 2015-01-08 17:54 naw, i like it. shows where things are happening. but it may help if very long sequences would get truncated. 2015-01-08 18:19 by definition/netiquette of IRC, a bot shouldn't spam a channel with unsolicited info. It might be tolerable when you do this in a dedicated channel which users would join only when they are interested in that sort of automated update about "where things happen". For a channel with /topic "hardware hackers join here to discuss Ben NanoNote, atben / atusb 802.15.4 wireless, and other community driven hw projects" I'd consider such 2015-01-08 18:19 automated 'tweets' quite inappropriate 2015-01-08 18:20 but obviously that's pretty much up to the individual channel's policies, as set up by the channel founders 2015-01-08 18:21 pcercuei has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 2015-01-08 18:55 pcercuei has joined #qi-hardware 2015-01-08 19:06 wolfspraul has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 2015-01-08 19:09 wolfspraul has joined #qi-hardware 2015-01-08 19:12 rejon has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 2015-01-08 19:37 Haswell has joined #qi-hardware 2015-01-08 19:49 wolfspraul has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 2015-01-08 19:55 wolfspraul has joined #qi-hardware 2015-01-08 20:01 wolfspraul has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 2015-01-08 20:22 jekhor__ has joined #qi-hardware 2015-01-08 20:39 wolfspraul has joined #qi-hardware 2015-01-08 20:44 rejon has joined #qi-hardware 2015-01-08 20:47 fmeerkoetter has joined #qi-hardware 2015-01-08 20:50 wpwrak: wut? Argentinia building the RN40 since EIGHTY years and still not even half done? real fun! 2015-01-08 20:55 well, Koeln dome took longer to be not finished yet ;-) 2015-01-08 21:10 wolfspraul has quit [Quit: leaving] 2015-01-08 21:15 i think you mean paved, not constructed. where are many unpaved roads in argentia. please remember that it's a big country and traffic can be fairly light in some areas :) 2015-01-08 21:22 s/where/there/ 2015-01-08 21:22 wpwrak meant: "i think you mean paved, not constructed. there are many unpaved roads in argentia. please remember that it's a big country and traffic can be fairly light in some areas :)" 2015-01-08 21:28 wpwrak: do you have a car in argentia? 2015-01-08 21:29 yup, and i think i've driven on RN40 (the paved part :) 2015-01-08 21:30 * eintopf image some linux car with a big fat linux sticker at the back 2015-01-08 21:30 oh wait 2015-01-08 21:30 I know wpwrak car 2015-01-08 21:31 http://www.spiegel.de/auto/aktuell/mobiles-buero-auf-dem-beifahrersitz-polizei-stoppt-autofahrer-a-866960.html - (german article) 2015-01-08 21:31 you don't need to understand german if you see this picture: 2015-01-08 21:31 http://cdn2.spiegel.de/images/image-424469-galleryV9-nokm.jpg 2015-01-08 21:32 but the solder station is missing there 2015-01-08 21:32 maybe baking some boards on the top of the motor while driving the car ;-) 2015-01-08 21:35 wpwrak: please don't be angry.... it's just funny. Maybe you have something similar in your car and for me that's pretty cool 2015-01-08 21:36 that looks kinda dangerous :) 2015-01-08 21:38 naw, the only "diy" addition is a gps support 2015-01-08 21:41 :-( 2015-01-08 21:42 fmeerkoetter has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 2015-01-08 21:44 jow_laptop has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 2015-01-08 21:44 jow_laptop has joined #qi-hardware 2015-01-08 21:45 I finished my implementation for controlling a inverted pendulum via matlab PID code generation (some project for my study) 2015-01-08 21:45 it's simulated in a physic engine only 2015-01-08 21:46 but I implemented a cool opengl plotter for the PID error 2015-01-08 21:46 my experience, you don't need the fancy matlab thing... but I can't say this in my course 2015-01-08 21:47 and matlab simulink code generation - I don't know if I can setup some settings for generating code for 8bit mcu. I mean the code generator need to be sure that there is no overflow, etc... 2015-01-08 21:49 somebody wants to have some x86_64 binary to see how a PID works? it's magic 2015-01-08 21:50 thanks, I've built both analog and digital PID controllers 2015-01-08 21:50 :-) 2015-01-08 21:50 it's magic because I have only some error value with no dimension and the PID try to get this error at 0... okay that's how a PID works 2015-01-08 21:50 but the gains, it's purely randomness 2015-01-08 21:50 DocScrutinizer05: :O analog PID controller? 2015-01-08 21:50 sure 2015-01-08 21:51 this is fast 2015-01-08 21:51 that's how that stuff started 2015-01-08 21:51 ah, ok. 2015-01-08 21:51 some prolly 100 years ago 2015-01-08 21:51 do you also do some fuzzy logic? 2015-01-08 21:51 hardly ever 2015-01-08 21:51 I think fuzzy logic is a joke 2015-01-08 21:52 I can do logic of arbitrary "fuzziness" in proper digital 2015-01-08 21:53 no need for "gaaaaaanz viel 0 is ein klein bisschen 1" 2015-01-08 21:54 and for what do you use the PID? 2015-01-08 21:54 for controlling things... 2015-01-08 21:54 I mean when do you use PID and when fuzzy 2015-01-08 21:55 okay the PID error value plot looks more like a sin(x) with some damping 2015-01-08 21:55 and fuzzy looks different, then fuzzy is maybe better 2015-01-08 21:56 when it looks too much like sin(x) you should adjust the integral factor 2015-01-08 21:57 ah, an expert 2015-01-08 21:57 I have a little input box where I can change the values on the fly 2015-01-08 21:58 PID regulators are used literally everywhere 2015-01-08 22:02 dandon has joined #qi-hardware 2015-01-08 22:03 there is math to calibrate the PID from known parameters of the controlled system, but they are tedious and it's generally easier to simply adjust the stuff live 2015-01-08 22:04 particularly since it's quite difficult to acquire a comprehensive set of parameters of the controlled system, incl all actors and sensors 2015-01-08 22:05 yes, matlab has also some feature to auto-detect the gains 2015-01-08 22:05 but then I need to have my physical model inside matlab 2015-01-08 22:06 and my physic engine only understand setMotorSpeed(500) 2015-01-08 22:06 don't know what 500 means :-) 2015-01-08 22:06 hehe 2015-01-08 22:06 this will cost much time 2015-01-08 22:06 but for the PID this doesn't matter 2015-01-08 22:06 he only tries to get the error value -> 0 2015-01-08 22:07 yep 2015-01-08 22:07 it's more about inertia and momentum, about delays etc in your system 2015-01-08 22:07 phase shift 2015-01-08 22:08 and those are hard to measure, for any physical object 2015-01-08 22:09 basically you compensate delay with the D component and inertia with the I component 2015-01-08 22:10 funny even the letters match :-D 2015-01-08 22:10 just noticed first time 2015-01-08 22:12 you can also think of differential component as highpass and integral component as lowpass 2015-01-08 22:13 I used the normal PID controller from wikipedia 2015-01-08 22:13 pure simple 2015-01-08 22:13 with the matlab componentes Integral 1/s and derivate 2015-01-08 22:14 and sum function at end 2015-01-08 22:14 the P gain is only to set my "setMotorSpeed" to some value which fits 2015-01-08 22:14 not too fast, not too slow 2015-01-08 22:14 and I simple experiment with all values 2015-01-08 22:15 I know the matlab builtin PID controller has some filter 2015-01-08 22:16 but I didn't understand that, if I set the filter coefficient above 0, nothing worked anymore 2015-01-08 22:16 a build a own one 2015-01-08 22:16 http://www.mathworks.com/help/simulink/slref/pid_controller_parallel.png 2015-01-08 22:16 that's the normal MATLAB PID controller 2015-01-08 22:17 I simple have a "normal" deivate block after D-Gain 2015-01-08 22:17 don't know what matlab tries to do there 2015-01-08 22:19 well, they build a differentiator from an integrator 2015-01-08 22:20 a highpass for x is what you get from x-lowpass(x) 2015-01-08 22:21 in simple analog this would be a capacitor feeding back opamp output to negative input 2015-01-08 22:22 ooops sorry, nope, the contrary 2015-01-08 22:22 this would be a capacitor shorting high frequencies of the feedback to ground, in negative input 2015-01-08 22:25 the 1/s feeding back low frequencies to the inverting input, thus attenuating them 2015-01-08 22:26 ah 2015-01-08 22:27 and such feedback however can't reduce the amplification to <1 2015-01-08 22:27 I know lowpass filter. A rc-circuit. 2015-01-08 22:27 :nod: 2015-01-08 22:28 oh 2015-01-08 22:29 When I started my study I had some frequency generator and making serval RC-circuits. Then I looked at oscilloscope what happens 2015-01-08 22:29 the first time where I understand for what's good for 2015-01-08 22:30 ypur amplification in such feedback filter needs to be >1 to produce any significant difference in output signal between filtered and non-filtered frequencies 2015-01-08 22:31 quite possibly a feed-forward filter would be better suited for that usecase than a feedback filter 2015-01-08 22:33 a filter without feedback could result in output amplitude approaching zero for frequency approaching zero 2015-01-08 22:34 jekhor__ has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 2015-01-08 22:35 I think I don't do any filtering now, but thanks for the info 2015-01-08 22:35 the stuff http://www.mathworks.com/help/simulink/slref/pid_controller_parallel.png shows would still have output = input (amplification = 1) and for higher frequencies it would reach the amplification of the "N filter coefficient" 2015-01-08 22:36 I also saw some filtering about position and the acceleration, which is calculated by position''. They had some weights with pos_filter = (pos_avg * 0.1) + (real_pos * 0,9); 2015-01-08 22:37 ah so I don't have higher frequency, this will reduce some wobble pendulum :-) 2015-01-08 22:46 maybe it helps to think about you following another car with your car on the highway. You have a very accurate way to detect the distance to the car you're following and your goal is to keep a certain constant distance 2015-01-08 22:47 consider what you would do to the trottle when you notice your distance is 10% too short. 2015-01-08 22:47 you also would act differnt based on your observation if that distance is short but constant or the car before you is actually slower than you 2015-01-08 22:48 that's the D component 2015-01-08 22:48 to adjust your speed to the other car quickly 2015-01-08 22:49 when you notice you're 10% short but same speed, you slowly reduce throttle gradually. That's the I component 2015-01-08 22:50 ahhh 2015-01-08 22:52 too much I without any D would result in oscillation 2015-01-08 22:53 but too high D would also result in oscillation 2015-01-08 22:54 both of them too low would result in your distance never getting right 2015-01-08 23:04 the P component is basically just to adjust the target distance you want to keep 2015-01-08 23:11 sorry when there's anything incorrect in all this, it's what I recall from my experience with PID which is quite several years ago already 2015-01-08 23:11 pcercuei has quit [Quit: dodo] 2015-01-08 23:13 also note there are serial PID as well. What you shown is a parallel PID 2015-01-08 23:22 I think you can have hours of fun with https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PID_controller and particularly https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regler#PID-Regler ;-) 2015-01-08 23:52 actually nope, P component is what determines the working point and thus characteristics of the whole regulator. (over-damped vs overshooting)