2014-09-30 00:12 <mth> solrize: afaik they haven't been produced in a while, but I don't know if there are any stocks left
2014-09-30 00:14 <wpwrak> solrize: i'd suggest to ask on the mailing list. also, if 2nd hand would be an option for you, you may want to indicate that. the list: http://lists.en.qi-hardware.com/mailman/listinfo/discussion
2014-09-30 00:14 <solrize> mth thanks  i looked around a little and they seem scarce, and the last ones retailed were quite expensive.
2014-09-30 00:14 <solrize> wpwrak, hmm thanks
2014-09-30 00:14 <solrize> yeah 2nd hand would be ok, at the moment i'm feeling kind of poor and don't want to pay a lot, but when i get some more $$ then it will be less of an issue
2014-09-30 00:29 <wpwrak> heh, poverty may work in your favour in this case :) there ought to be some people who bought bens who never got around to using them, or who didn't see them fit for whatever they had in mind doing with them
2014-09-30 00:30 <whitequark> I'd send one over if international transactions weren't such a pain in the ass
2014-09-30 00:31 <solrize> wpwrak, yeah, it sounds like some people might have dusty ones, but they probably have good resale value.  i don't see any on ebay right now
2014-09-30 00:31 <solrize> if i got one i don't know if i'd really use it.  but i got the computer i really wanted (nokia n900) and just feel suspicious of it so i don't do anything with it either.
2014-09-30 01:13 <wpwrak> solrize: the number of units out there may just be too small for many to make them to ebay. if you ask on the list, i think your chances are much better.
2014-09-30 01:14 <wpwrak> (n900) suspicious ? sounds as if you may be interested in a neo900 ;-)
2014-09-30 01:15 <solrize> wpwrak, yeah, i might check there if my desire becomes strong enough.  neo900, hmm, that will be nice when it happens :)
2014-09-30 01:15 <solrize> the hw is still too complicated though
2014-09-30 01:17 <wpwrak> too complicated in what sense ?
2014-09-30 01:22 <solrize> very fancy cpu with lots of inscrutable modes, baseband radio processor with its own opaque software that has direct access to the n900's main memory, built in wireless communications that can leak info, etc.
2014-09-30 01:37 <wpwrak> what ? no, that modem has no direct access to main memory at all
2014-09-30 01:38 <wpwrak> in fact, the whole critter it built with unreasonable amounts of paranoia. but then, today's unreasonable may be tomorrow's normal, cf. perceptions before and after snowden
2014-09-30 01:39 <wpwrak> here's a block diagram that shows how the device is structured: http://neo900.org/stuff/neo900-block-diagram.pdf
2014-09-30 01:40 <wpwrak> slightly more up to date version (but with some loose ends, e.g., the NFC that got added here will probably change): http://neo900.org/stuff/werner/web/gta04b7v2-wip-2014092209.pdf
2014-09-30 01:51 <wpwrak> kewl. a 3rd wave of icloud pictures is making the rounds. some lesson on why you still have to use your brain, even if you bought some shiny gadget from apple.
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2014-09-30 06:20 <eintopf> http://www.openwall.com/lists/oss-security/2014/09/29/17
2014-09-30 06:24 <kyak> lol
2014-09-30 06:25 <kyak> really, most security issues expose themselves by accident
2014-09-30 06:25 <kyak> someone was bored
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2014-09-30 08:59 <larsc> or had enough time and money
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2014-09-30 11:17 <wpwrak> sounds like cat + keyboard :)
2014-09-30 11:41 <nicksydney> wpwrak: http://embien.com/blog/bluetooth-stack-frdm-kl25z-kit-demo/
2014-09-30 11:48 <kyak> wpwrak: that would be a new approach to test applications depending on user input. Unleash them cats! Many cats!
2014-09-30 11:49 <kyak> i bet 1 cat, given enough time, would've found that bash bug :)
2014-09-30 11:51 <wpwrak> nicksydney: a USB dongle ! ;-)))
2014-09-30 11:52 <nicksydney> wpwrak: it's cool now can use USB dongle :)
2014-09-30 12:01 <wpwrak> kyak: maybe i should cover anelok in synthetic fur, add pointy ears, and make it purr. might sell like crazy ;-)
2014-09-30 12:02 <wpwrak> anelok lolcats edition :)
2014-09-30 12:33 <kyak> --)
2014-09-30 12:35 <whitequark> wpwrak: you bet it will
2014-09-30 12:36 <whitequark> kyak: cat fuzzing?
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2014-09-30 13:12 <wpwrak> return -ETOOCUTE;
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2014-09-30 13:30 <eintopf> so anelok will support to operate as USB HID to produce the gnome lock screen bug?
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2014-09-30 13:30 <eintopf> I would pay for it :-)
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2014-09-30 16:18 <sb0> yay, another "open hardware" $12 ARM gadget, stealing more oxygen from any oshw serious project
2014-09-30 16:18 <sb0> fuck mozilla
2014-09-30 16:20 <wpwrak> sb0: did ARM now become the enemy, with arduino maturing from AVR ? :)
2014-09-30 16:21 <wpwrak> and what have mozilla done ?
2014-09-30 16:23 <sb0> matchstick.tv
2014-09-30 16:24 <sb0> "You may not decompile, reverse engineer, disassemble, attempt to derive the source code of any software or software components of the Matchstick software including the Matchstick SDK software."
2014-09-30 16:24 <sb0> hahaha
2014-09-30 16:25 <wpwrak> so much about "certified by Mozilla" :)
2014-09-30 16:25 <sb0> "We take open seriously and the only way hardware can be truly open is removing any barriers to development AND manufacturing"
2014-09-30 16:25 <sb0> how about they remove the barriers created by investing shittons of venture capital that allows them to sell this for $12?
2014-09-30 16:27 <wpwrak> well, we're kinda used to getting underbidded. i guess we just have to live with that.
2014-09-30 16:30 <ysionneau> where did you get the "you may not decompile [..]" sentence from?
2014-09-30 16:30 <sb0> http://www.matchstick.tv/developers/documents/sdk-apply-check.html
2014-09-30 16:30 <larsc> it seems opensoftware means there is a documented API
2014-09-30 16:30 <ysionneau> and I think Mozilla has nothing to do with this maybe except checking a bit if they were doing nasty things like giving access to user data and breaking the sandboxes and just gave the "certified" bit
2014-09-30 16:31 <ysionneau> wow, you actually read the "small lines"
2014-09-30 16:32 <ysionneau> indeed that's stupid to call yourself an open source sw and hw project
2014-09-30 16:32 <ysionneau> and then put this kind of lines
2014-09-30 16:33 <sb0> https://gigaom.com/2014/06/20/this-firefox-os-powered-streaming-stick-is-mozillas-answer-to-chromecast-exclusive-video/
2014-09-30 16:34 <sb0> FWIW... (gigaom people also measure battery capacities in watts)
2014-09-30 16:35 <ysionneau> about matchstick, they are playing with the word "open sw & hw" but it's not actually open source, right?
2014-09-30 16:36 <ysionneau> it's just basd on fx os which is open source but I guess they don't allow to recompile the FW of the matchstick
2014-09-30 16:37 <sb0> they look like the usual bullshit VC-backed users-as-the-product startup that uses kickstarter for PR and openwashing to attract developers, yes
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2014-09-30 16:37 <ysionneau> that's so shitty
2014-09-30 16:38 <ysionneau> I think either Mozilla is getting bullshited because they are too naive
2014-09-30 16:38 <ysionneau> or they are really turning their back on their values
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2014-09-30 17:22 <dos1> it's basically the same with phones
2014-09-30 17:22 <dos1> firefox os on phones is just android-bis
2014-09-30 17:22 <dos1> you can find some pretty open devices, but they're rarity
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2014-09-30 18:22 <DocScrutinizer05> ((baseband radio processor with its own opaque software that has direct access to the n900's main memory)) Nope, enither N900 nor Neo900 the modem has access to main memory, unlike 99.5% of more contemporary smartphones
2014-09-30 18:23 <DocScrutinizer05> incl Jolla
2014-09-30 18:23 <DocScrutinizer05> and blackphone, BWAHAAAHAAA
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2014-09-30 18:59 <abodywithkeyboar> blackphone pa! more like govphone
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2014-09-30 19:48 <ysionneau> 19:22 < dos1> it's basically the same with phones < with phones you are supposed to be able to rebuild the FW
2014-09-30 19:48 <ysionneau> except some closed source binary
2014-09-30 19:48 <ysionneau> but I'm not sure it's the same for the matchstick, the source is not published anywhere, at least I could not find it
2014-09-30 19:48 <dos1> ysionneau: but that's not the case even with some "mozilla certified" phones
2014-09-30 19:49 <ysionneau> ah really?
2014-09-30 19:49 <ysionneau> which one?
2014-09-30 19:49 <dos1> zte open for instance
2014-09-30 19:50 <dos1> you have to exploit it in order to modify system files
2014-09-30 19:50 <ysionneau> hummm
2014-09-30 19:51 <dos1> not sure if there's exploit for unlocking the bootloader yet; when I last checked there wasn't
2014-09-30 19:51 <ysionneau> Cannot you just flash your own image via fastboot?
2014-09-30 19:52 <dos1> build has to be signed
2014-09-30 19:52 <ysionneau> https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/Firefox_OS/Developer_phone_guide/ZTE_OPEN
2014-09-30 19:52 <ysionneau> oh
2014-09-30 19:52 <dos1> or it had to be, I might be not up-to-date
2014-09-30 19:54 <ysionneau> you can build yout own Fx os and flash it on the zte
2014-09-30 19:54 <ysionneau> it's on the wiki
2014-09-30 19:54 <ysionneau> https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/Firefox_OS/Developer_phone_guide/ZTE_OPEN#Firefox_OS_1.3_and_beyond
2014-09-30 19:54 <dos1> possibly, but it for sure wasn't the case after it was released
2014-09-30 19:55 <ysionneau> ah indeed
2014-09-30 19:55 <ysionneau> https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/Firefox_OS/Developer_phone_guide/ZTE_OPEN#Revision_01
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2014-09-30 19:55 <ysionneau> "Phones produced before 09/27/2013 do not have fastboot enabled and must be updated. "
2014-09-30 19:55 <ysionneau> you're right
2014-09-30 19:55 <dos1> and that wasn't the only model which suffered from that
2014-09-30 19:55 <ysionneau> ok, I hope they fixed that by now :x
2014-09-30 19:56 <ysionneau> if you find other models where it's impossible to reflash it with your own image tell me
2014-09-30 19:56 <ysionneau> I can pass the word to the developers
2014-09-30 19:56 <dos1> looks like there are still some restrictions on zte open though
2014-09-30 19:56 <dos1> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=910265
2014-09-30 20:02 <ysionneau> latest comment says you can flash the zte after the OTA update but there are issues (bugs) when flashing a more modern version of fx os
2014-09-30 20:02 <ysionneau> seems like a sw bug to me
2014-09-30 20:02 <ysionneau> but at least you can flash whatever you want
2014-09-30 20:03 <ysionneau> so someone needs to fix that bug indeed
2014-09-30 20:03 <ysionneau> but since it's open source, anyone can do it
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