2014-09-08 00:41 xiangfu has joined #qi-hardware 2014-09-08 02:01 xiangfu has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 2014-09-08 02:12 FDCX has joined #qi-hardware 2014-09-08 02:34 wej has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 2014-09-08 02:48 wej has joined #qi-hardware 2014-09-08 03:01 whitequark: russian reporter lew schlossberg bashed up for reporting about russian soldiers wounded or killed in ukraina http://www.focus.de/politik/ausland/russische-soldaten-in-der-ukraine-wie-ein-kreml-kritiker-fuer-enthuellungen-mit-seiner-gesundheit-zahlt_id_4098583.html http://www.welt.de/print/die_welt/politik/article131780836/Russischer-Politiker-verpruegelt.html 2014-09-08 03:02 harly propaganda unless the guy is made up completely 2014-09-08 03:02 hardly* 2014-09-08 05:56 jluis has joined #qi-hardware 2014-09-08 06:11 arhuaco has left #qi-hardware ["Leaving"] 2014-09-08 06:25 lars__ has joined #qi-hardware 2014-09-08 07:12 lars__ has joined #qi-hardware 2014-09-08 07:33 wej has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 2014-09-08 07:44 pcercuei has joined #qi-hardware 2014-09-08 07:46 wej has joined #qi-hardware 2014-09-08 07:58 wolfspraul has joined #qi-hardware 2014-09-08 08:13 pcercuei has quit [Quit: brb] 2014-09-08 08:15 pcercuei has joined #qi-hardware 2014-09-08 08:20 pcercuei has quit [Client Quit] 2014-09-08 08:25 pcercuei has joined #qi-hardware 2014-09-08 08:25 arhuaco has joined #qi-hardware 2014-09-08 09:04 xiangfu has joined #qi-hardware 2014-09-08 11:12 FDCX has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 2014-09-08 11:14 wej has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 2014-09-08 11:17 wej has joined #qi-hardware 2014-09-08 11:22 Nik05 has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 2014-09-08 11:22 FDCX has joined #qi-hardware 2014-09-08 11:25 Nik05 has joined #qi-hardware 2014-09-08 11:28 does it affect battery life if i always charge it from pc usb port? 2014-09-08 11:29 i suspect it has killed my battery 2014-09-08 11:29 maybe, bad charger logic 2014-09-08 11:29 after one or maybe two ywars 2014-09-08 11:29 okay after two years a battery can be damaged 2014-09-08 11:30 means very old and no capacity 2014-09-08 11:30 but depends on battery type 2014-09-08 11:31 the battery is li-ino 2014-09-08 11:31 *li-ion 2014-09-08 11:31 it's a smart phone i'm charging 2014-09-08 11:31 the battery has lost like 90% of it's capacity by now 2014-09-08 11:32 when the phone dyes, it takes around 3 minutes to charge it to 100% with 500 mA USB port 2014-09-08 11:32 :) 2014-09-08 11:32 normal hardware vendors let your smartphone die after two years 2014-09-08 11:33 it might be some internal corruption of battery cells, i'm just wondering what would happen if i used the wall charger 2014-09-08 11:33 well, i just ordered a new battery, 30% more capacity than original, so fuck you vendors :) 2014-09-08 11:33 yea, you can do that 2014-09-08 11:33 and hail China! 2014-09-08 11:34 but the most people can't do it and buy newer models 2014-09-08 11:34 I wonder if it's due to horrible temperature conditions 2014-09-08 11:34 and that's how the complete earth and natural environment will die 2014-09-08 11:34 having a often-hot CPU in a cramped case is like the worst possible arrangement for battery life 2014-09-08 11:34 this time i'll try using usb wall charger instead of my laptop usb port 2014-09-08 11:34 usb wall chargers usually provide *more* current than USB ports... 2014-09-08 11:35 yeah, so maybe it's better for battery life? 2014-09-08 11:35 because it would charge faster 2014-09-08 11:35 uhhh, what? no 2014-09-08 11:35 I already saw some thinkpad with yellow usb ports... they offer more ampere 2014-09-08 11:35 that's like the complete opposite 2014-09-08 11:36 hm, so i in fact should go on charging from usb port? 2014-09-08 11:36 afaik li-ion life is mainly limited by heat, so by charging it faster you can only make it worse. 2014-09-08 11:36 faster -> more heat? 2014-09-08 11:36 I suppose 2014-09-08 11:36 yes 2014-09-08 11:36 ok 2014-09-08 11:37 then usb port it is :) 2014-09-08 11:37 the battery is a bit "fat" now 2014-09-08 11:37 not flat like the new one 2014-09-08 11:38 so, you put it in the microwave? 2014-09-08 11:38 not yet :) 2014-09-08 11:38 i'm actually a little bit afraid of this old battery now. It looks like it's going to explode 2014-09-08 11:39 could also be just shitty battery 2014-09-08 11:39 well, it served for around three years 2014-09-08 11:40 i couldn't ask for more with today's batteries, i gues 2014-09-08 11:40 I like that qi-hardware make the possibility to insert nokia batteries into the nanonote 2014-09-08 11:40 but I don't have a nanonote :( 2014-09-08 11:40 well, my laptop's battery is almost three years old as well 2014-09-08 11:40 still retains about 64% 2014-09-08 11:40 how do you measure? 2014-09-08 11:41 acpi -V 2014-09-08 11:41 ah, so it's trustworthy? 2014-09-08 11:41 it has a fuel gauge that knows this thing 2014-09-08 11:41 well, mostly 2014-09-08 11:41 I know for sure that it doesn't correct for temperature, so if you charge it in a cold room and then bring in a hot one... voila, 114% 2014-09-08 11:41 maybe whitequark do also some tweaks... not full loading of battery 2014-09-08 11:41 first loading battery after 10% 2014-09-08 11:41 what? 2014-09-08 11:41 below 10%* 2014-09-08 11:42 i'll see how my laptop is doing.. it's been constantly plugged into the power, i use it on battery only several times in ..two years 2014-09-08 11:42 there exist tweaks to extend the battery life 2014-09-08 11:42 not full load battery. Making recharge cycles 2014-09-08 11:42 afaik, most of those tweaks are obsolete after charge controllers 2014-09-08 11:43 they were invented in the time where "a diode" was an acceptable charging circuit 2014-09-08 11:43 mhh, don't know :( 2014-09-08 11:44 i don't trust these tricks :) though i used one trick with this smartphone. When android reports 100% charge, i turn it off, and it charges some more time 2014-09-08 11:44 http://www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/Tp_smapi#Battery_charge_control_features 2014-09-08 11:44 meaning this 2014-09-08 11:44 untill another 100% indicator (not android one) appears 2014-09-08 11:45 eintopf: that's even thinkpad-specific 2014-09-08 11:45 it alsmost feels like android and bootloader (or whatever) charge differently 2014-09-08 11:45 yep 2014-09-08 11:45 kyak: they do, sorta 2014-09-08 11:45 android tells the host to give full 500mA, bootloader probably doesn't 2014-09-08 11:45 (you could check by looking at lsusb) 2014-09-08 11:46 interesting, i'll have a look 2014-09-08 11:46 i just remembered i also used that with wall charger 2014-09-08 11:47 so they probably detect "end of charge" in different manner 2014-09-08 11:48 there are so many battery myths dating back from older designs that i don't know what to trust 2014-09-08 11:48 for example, should i do 3 cycles of complete charge-discharge with this new battery? 2014-09-08 11:49 li-ion batteries have no memory effect 2014-09-08 11:49 that's only for nimh and I think nicd 2014-09-08 11:52 ok, thanks 2014-09-08 12:28 dandon has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 2014-09-08 12:29 dandon has joined #qi-hardware 2014-09-08 13:34 astr has joined #qi-hardware 2014-09-08 15:47 ~tell kyak about batteryfaq 2014-09-08 15:48 what usually damages batteries is deep discharge 2014-09-08 15:48 storage at deep discharge 2014-09-08 15:48 and high temperatures 2014-09-08 15:49 xiangfu has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 2014-09-08 15:49 chaging current SHALL be regulated to 1C or 0.7C even, in CC phase of a controlled CC-CV charging 2014-09-08 15:52 and actually there are "treat battery gently" setting in some laptop BIOSes: they reduce Vbatt-max by 0.1V per cell 2014-09-08 15:52 best advice: never discharge batt to lower than 50% 2014-09-08 15:53 arhuaco has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 2014-09-08 15:53 do not constantly trigger recharge by replugging to USB or switching VBUS off and on again (ÜC suspend for example) 2014-09-08 15:54 s/Ü/P 2014-09-08 15:54 DocScrutinizer05 meant: "do not constantly trigger recharge by replugging to USB or switching VBUS off and on again (PC suspend for example)" 2014-09-08 15:56 the 3 complete cycles on fresh battery are nonsense 2014-09-08 15:56 as is "discharge battery completely 4 times a year" 2014-09-08 15:57 [2014-09-08 Mon 17:57:42] i heard batteryfaq is http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Battery_Questions_and_Answers 2014-09-08 15:58 oooh, and get rid of your swollen battery! it actually *might* explode 2014-09-08 16:00 btw "high temperature" starts as low as 70°C 2014-09-08 16:02 actually very low temperatures are allegedly also devastating to LiIon, but I can't tell about that from experience, while the other above facts are verified 2014-09-08 16:04 or rather, particularly charging and (less severely) discharging at low temp. It seems the definitions of "low temp" varies between 0°C and -40°C 2014-09-08 16:04 a usual pattern is: no charging below 0°C, no massive discharging below -20°C 2014-09-08 16:05 kyak: ^^^ 2014-09-08 16:05 arhuaco has joined #qi-hardware 2014-09-08 16:12 DocScrutinizer05: re 70°C: my SGS2 was heating up so much several times, I could not bear to hold it 2014-09-08 16:12 which should be about 70°C with plastics, maybe even more 2014-09-08 16:13 (water at 65°C is almost unbearable, but it transfers heat quicker and retains more of it) 2014-09-08 16:13 re low temperatures: I wonder if the reason is the various shifts in properties of semiconductor charger and battery at low temps where it doesn't know to compensate it 2014-09-08 16:14 like wouldn't the cell's max voltage go under 4.2V at low temp? so if you charge it with CV to 4.2¸ you're going to kill it 2014-09-08 16:14 whitequark: were you using the "power saving" option? (which I think downclock the device) 2014-09-08 16:14 ysionneau: uhh no, it got stuck in some kind of GPU loop or something 2014-09-08 16:14 the battery discharged completely in under four minutes 2014-09-08 16:15 wow 2014-09-08 16:15 stock ROM? 2014-09-08 16:15 no, cyanogenmod, but it is usually *more* stable :P 2014-09-08 16:15 it was some flaky app. 2014-09-08 16:15 ok, I have no issue with the power saving option on SGS3 stock rom, it saves battery and produces less heat 2014-09-08 16:15 but the UX is slower 2014-09-08 16:15 but I don't care that much 2014-09-08 16:16 since the battery is 2.2Ah at avg 3.7V... it dumped 24kJ in the course of four minutes 2014-09-08 16:16 which makes me wonder how the fuck it survived at all 2014-09-08 16:16 that's... 100W?! no, I must have made some error 2014-09-08 16:17 I suppose the capacity would be lower at higher current 2014-09-08 16:17 ok, 1.9Ah, but that doesn't change it much 2014-09-08 16:18 it cannot possibly dissipate 100W or even 50 2014-09-08 16:19 DocScrutinizer05: ohh, many thanks for useful advice!] 2014-09-08 16:21 i'm more or less following all of them "naturally", except for "never less than 50%" 2014-09-08 16:21 my laptop has the option of not charging the battery over 80% 2014-09-08 16:21 my usage is kind of the worst case for it, to be honest. I tend to completely discharge it at least once a day 2014-09-08 16:21 so when people say "to save battery life time, always discharge 100% before recharging" it is bullshit? 2014-09-08 16:21 bad habits, etc 2014-09-08 16:21 ysionneau: this is true for NiCd and NiMH 2014-09-08 16:22 complete bullshit for LiIon 2014-09-08 16:22 oh, ok 2014-09-08 16:22 re bad habits: so I suppose this is a really good battery+controller, as they survived this long 2014-09-08 16:24 17:52 < DocScrutinizer05> best advice: never discharge batt to lower than 50% < with nowdays smartphones this is very difficult 2014-09-08 16:24 at the end of the day you have usually < 50% 2014-09-08 16:24 pffft, just make it automatically turn off when it reaches 50% 2014-09-08 16:25 whitequark: btw, my laptop battery is at 91% of its capacity after two years of "optimal" usage 2014-09-08 16:25 it's not like you do anything except playing candy crush on it anyway 2014-09-08 16:25 my office lenovo laptop is always plugged in its dockstation and therefore plugged to AC supply, but I guess there is a controller which helps here 2014-09-08 16:37 "Check every 3 months and recharge when due, cells will self-discharge over time and once they reach 0% level they are dead within weeks! " 2014-09-08 16:37 damn, my stock of nokia batteries must be dead now 2014-09-08 16:38 but i'm too lazy to check them even once in three months 2014-09-08 16:39 seems once a year usually suffices 2014-09-08 16:41 i also usually keep batteries inside old phones 2014-09-08 16:41 self discharge shouldn't be that high usually. But that depends on battery quality. Mucj dirt and dust in manufacturing results in micro-perforations in separator which cause increased self discharge and worst case make batteries explode 2014-09-08 16:41 keeping in device is a *very* poor idea 2014-09-08 16:42 no device has a decent off state, so they discharge batteries during months in off state 2014-09-08 16:42 yeah, so i'll put it out 2014-09-08 16:43 how do you know when to throw a battery away? 2014-09-08 16:43 even the swolen one can turn out to be useful some day :) 2014-09-08 16:45 pffff, with the current prices on batteries, nope 2014-09-08 16:45 they're dirt cheap because of chinese dumping them in huge quantities 2014-09-08 16:50 yes, the swollen one can be mad useful... as lighter ;-P 2014-09-08 16:51 ok, ok, i'm throwing it away :) 2014-09-08 16:51 dandon has quit [Quit: .] 2014-09-08 16:53 pcercuei has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 2014-09-08 16:55 lighter? more like landmine 2014-09-08 16:55 I mean, we all know DocScrutinizer05 freely interchanges the two 2014-09-08 16:55 but maybe kyak isn't so enlightened yet 2014-09-08 16:55 dandon has joined #qi-hardware 2014-09-08 16:57 definitely not 2014-09-08 17:02 exploding LiIon cells not only may start fires, they also vent tasty stuff like HF acid 2014-09-08 17:03 (this is an unconfirmed rumor I spread here) 2014-09-08 17:04 HF? 2014-09-08 17:04 it doesn't contain F¯ 2014-09-08 17:05 the organic acid dielectricum and the separator may 2014-09-08 17:05 dunno 2014-09-08 17:06 separator is polyethylene I think? 2014-09-08 17:06 particularly the separator might be PTFE 2014-09-08 17:06 hrm 2014-09-08 17:06 PTFE 2014-09-08 17:06 does it get hot enough for PTFE to decompose? 2014-09-08 17:06 when the battery explodes? sure 2014-09-08 17:06 DocScrutinizer05: oh you seem to be right 2014-09-08 17:07 energizer says lithium ion fire produces HF. 2014-09-08 17:07 yeah, plenty of safety documents mention it 2014-09-08 17:07 nteresting 2014-09-08 17:11 http://www.discovery.com/tv-shows/bear-grylls-escape-from-hell/videos/gum-wrapper-plus-battery-fire.htm 2014-09-08 17:11 you don't need an explosion to make a fire :) 2014-09-08 17:27 lots of things make less than desirable biproducts when they burn. 2014-09-08 17:27 for example, money, you can accidentally make Silicon Valley 2014-09-08 17:27 lol 2014-09-08 17:28 R-12 refridgerant when exposed to an open flame makes phosgene gas 2014-09-08 17:28 ... or just PVC 2014-09-08 17:29 well, it wasn't phosgene maybe, I need to recheck 2014-09-08 17:30 PVC? 2014-09-08 17:30 polyvinylchloride 2014-09-08 17:30 hydrogen chloride is your poison your thinking of. 2014-09-08 17:31 indeed 2014-09-08 17:31 right 2014-09-08 17:31 doesn't it also emit phosgene? 2014-09-08 17:32 I dont recall it being one of the major hazards, at fire school the bigger concern was the hydrogen chloride. 2014-09-08 17:33 I see 2014-09-08 17:35 I'm trying to think of some of the other good ones 2014-09-08 17:37 some other plastics generate Hydrogen Cyanide. 2014-09-08 17:37 which is a *LOVELY* friend to have in the air. 2014-09-08 17:38 yep, pretty common 2014-09-08 17:38 already known from ancient celluloid films 2014-09-08 17:38 its only a few hundred ppm for the LD50 dose in air. 2014-09-08 17:39 in old cinemas you still see the "funny" steel dors that close even the glass covered windows between projector room and visitor room 2014-09-08 17:40 doors* 2014-09-08 17:40 the steel cassettes where your reels sit in 2014-09-08 17:42 film coming out between two steel rollers that are supposed to stop that perverted nitrocellulose from burning into the cassette 2014-09-08 17:42 lol 2014-09-08 17:43 and the doots at windows closing automatically when a tiny cotton thread on projector snaps open and thus a contact closes 2014-09-08 17:43 the projector man was the doomed one ;-P 2014-09-08 17:43 apparently 2014-09-08 17:44 however as far as the big killer, trusty ol' carbon monoxide does the job nearly every time. 2014-09-08 17:44 it was even forbidden to transport the film reels in tram 2014-09-08 17:45 I think CO was the other major product of celluloid burning 2014-09-08 17:45 causing the really nasty secondary explosion when it ignites 2014-09-08 17:46 CO is pretty much the result of buring everything, and the #1 killer in fires 2014-09-08 17:47 yeah, but in celluloid fires it's created in such a volume it starts to create explosive concentrations. which tells some tale about the chances of the projector dude 2014-09-08 17:47 hahah 2014-09-08 17:47 yeah most people forget it burns. 2014-09-08 17:47 Steel mills and the like generally reuse it in such fashion 2014-09-08 17:55 http://www.geocaching.com/geocache/GC2Q2NM_park-kino?guid=e07d6437-49b7-4bba-ada4-2fc2af747925 >> Am 15.6.1940 brach während der Vorstellung von "Feuerteufel" (sic!) im Operateurraum des Park - Kinos ein Brand aus. Im Nu standen 2800 Meter Film in Flammen (damals waren die Filme aus Celluloid, ein hochbrennbares Material). Die eiserne Brandschutz - Klappen vor den Projektionslöchern zum Zuschauerraum schlossen sich allerdings 2014-09-08 17:55 sofort, sodass mit Ausnahme des Aufleuchtens einer Stichflamme vom Publikum kaum etwas bemerkt wurde. Die Kinobesucher konnten sich in aller Ruhe entfernen. Der Kinooperateur musste sich allerdings mit einem Sprung vom Balkon in den Garten retten.<< 2014-09-08 18:06 http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Datei:1988Askania_AP_XII.jpg top you see the casssette, between head and hand the drop-down fire doors 2014-09-08 18:07 ah 2014-09-08 18:10 wej has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 2014-09-08 18:11 wej has joined #qi-hardware 2014-09-08 18:16 wej has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 2014-09-08 18:18 a few more nice pictures: http://www.caboosebooks.net/node/94 2014-09-08 18:19 5 persons during King Kong premiere, 4 projector operators who must not leave their projector, and one winding-guy. 1 set of reels active, and 2 on reserve 2014-09-08 18:21 yay digital 2014-09-08 18:24 wej has joined #qi-hardware 2014-09-08 18:35 I now learned that celluloid films now are outlawed as explosives 2014-09-08 18:35 may even self-ignite in locker 2014-09-08 18:35 yep 2014-09-08 18:36 I'm quite happy that I operated the machines but never with celluloid 2014-09-08 18:36 I am amazed as to who looked at nitrocellulose and thought "right! should use this for data storage" 2014-09-08 18:36 the term "data" wasn't known when they came up with that idea ;-) 2014-09-08 18:37 if you really wanna know, I can dig it up for you 2014-09-08 18:37 was in the late 1800s 2014-09-08 18:38 dig what up? 2014-09-08 18:38 first dramatic incident World Expo Paris 1897: 140 dead 2014-09-08 18:38 who invented nitrocellulose movie film 2014-09-08 18:39 I can open wikipedia :p 2014-09-08 18:48 hmm, I can't find "official" sources for the 140 fatalities and tghe whole celluloid 'criticality' accident 2014-09-08 19:35 wolfspraul has quit [Quit: leaving] 2014-09-08 19:37 Ping-pong balls are still made out of nitrocellulose, I think. 2014-09-08 19:37 Nothing else *quite* bounces the same. 2014-09-08 19:38 But not beer-pong balls, apparently. 2014-09-08 19:38 I lit one of those on fire recentl; it did not burn well. 2014-09-08 19:38 It was almost flame-retardant. 2014-09-08 20:13 tumdedum has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 2014-09-08 20:14 tumdedum has joined #qi-hardware 2014-09-08 20:47 DocScrutinizer05, hi'a hows op:neo900 doing? excited as ever! :D 2014-09-08 20:48 IroN900:~# bin/omap34xx-boot-order 2014-09-08 20:48 sys_boot[5:0]: 0x10 2014-09-08 20:48 Boot order: OneNAND USB UART3 MMC1 -- 2014-09-08 20:48 ;-) 2014-09-08 20:50 arhuaco has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 2014-09-08 20:50 whoa 2014-09-08 20:51 ? 2014-09-08 20:52 that however is BS, since: 2014-09-08 20:52 0b10000 USB UART3 MMC1 OneNAND; for SYS_BOOT5=1 aka peripheral boot 2014-09-08 20:53 astr: I'm checking boot details of N900 2014-09-08 20:53 whitequark: not Neo900 yet ;-) 2014-09-08 20:53 oh, I wonder what your doing that for... 2014-09-08 20:54 to understand how N900 boots, so we can stay maximum compatible. and maybe get it right same time :-) 2014-09-08 20:55 the question came up 2 days ago when I discussed battery management&charging chip solutions for Neo900 with wpwrak 2014-09-08 20:55 N900 feeds a charger chip signal to SYS_BOOT5 2014-09-08 20:55 oh 2014-09-08 20:55 as for me I'm leaning _how_ much easily it will be to have a neo900 then my currently diy approach. just leaned that I can't upgrade Debian stable to testing with out a new kernel cus udev needs it. :/ 2014-09-08 20:56 but I just found out that it doesn't use that ball as SYS_BOOT5 when charger chip signal got connected 2014-09-08 21:08 that took a while to track down, the system locks up if you do a read from the same periperhal from two different CPUs at almost the same time 2014-09-08 21:16 surprise? 2014-09-08 21:21 it means my code is not broken, which of course is not a surprise ;) 2014-09-08 21:45 arhuaco has joined #qi-hardware 2014-09-08 22:25 astr has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 2014-09-08 22:46 astr has joined #qi-hardware 2014-09-08 23:06 (SYs_BOOT5) turns out it's a hw-level backdoor if ever the bootloader would get locked down 2014-09-08 23:07 EE department made sure sw department won't lock down / tivoize that lovely piece of hw ;-D 2014-09-08 23:10 and that's what I call a real hack