2014-09-02 00:00 wpwrak: another day another WiFi https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/xwifi-a-fingertip-sized-wifi-module-open-source :) 2014-09-02 00:18 duh! 19 "free" modules available still (1$ + facebook-like) 2014-09-02 00:18 too bad, I got no facebook account ;-P 2014-09-02 00:20 I don't get one thing though, is 2014-09-02 00:20 er 2014-09-02 00:20 it doesn't seem to have any kind of security measures 2014-09-02 00:20 so anyone on your network could do whatever they want 2014-09-02 00:24 asked them 2014-09-02 00:27 I think you need to set the password via USB or whatever? 2014-09-02 00:27 or it has hardcoded password ;-P 2014-09-02 00:28 if it's just password, then it's shit 2014-09-02 00:28 anyone with a sniffer on the same network figures it out in a minute 2014-09-02 00:28 well, I mean that WPA thing 2014-09-02 00:29 no difference if WPA or dedicated password 2014-09-02 00:29 suppose you want to control it remotely -- you're screwed 2014-09-02 00:29 sorry, you lost me 2014-09-02 00:29 well 2014-09-02 00:29 if the protocol itself doesn't have any kind of request signing and/or encryption, you can't just port forward it and control it remotely 2014-09-02 00:29 exposing it to the internet 2014-09-02 00:30 if the protocol does and the firmware is not written by morons (it probably is, but another story), you can 2014-09-02 00:30 err, I don't think this is a regular WiFi adapter 2014-09-02 00:30 what do you mean? 2014-09-02 00:31 InternetOfThings, it's meant for remote control, not general purpose internet data transfer 2014-09-02 00:31 sure. so? 2014-09-02 00:31 So I guess it has a way to set WPA-passphrase and that's it 2014-09-02 00:31 well, and that's dumb. 2014-09-02 00:31 WPA2 maybe even 2014-09-02 00:32 ? 2014-09-02 00:32 adding request signing with sha256 is like an hour of work and it already makes requests unforgeable 2014-09-02 00:32 encrypting them is a bit harder, but still can be done 2014-09-02 00:32 WPA *is* encryption, no? 2014-09-02 00:32 WPA only matters locally 2014-09-02 00:33 and also 2014-09-02 00:33 if the adversary is in your network, you're screwed 2014-09-02 00:33 sorry, I don't get it 2014-09-02 00:33 if you forward the traffic to this WiFi thing, you're screwed too 2014-09-02 00:34 the only case where you're protected by WPA is: 1) the device only EVER communicates inside the network and there is no way to address it from outside 2) ALL of the hosts on the network are trusted 2014-09-02 00:34 ooh, you want it to have encryption on higher level, not on-the-air 2014-09-02 00:34 yes. 2014-09-02 00:34 so you could hook up the thing to arbitrary public hotspots 2014-09-02 00:34 not necessarily 2014-09-02 00:34 so I could just say to my home router "expose this IP:port to web" 2014-09-02 00:34 and still be safe 2014-09-02 00:34 hmm 2014-09-02 00:35 this will be a very common use case 2014-09-02 00:35 i think probably in terms of security it's not that strong 2014-09-02 00:35 nicksydney: my point is that adding request signing is *trivial* 2014-09-02 00:35 adding encryption is less trivial because you need to use a proper mode 2014-09-02 00:35 i.e. authenticated encryption 2014-09-02 00:36 AES-GCM, or xsalsa20+poly1305 2014-09-02 00:36 you probbaly should implement such stuff on your firewall/router, or on a proxy resp concentrator in your network 2014-09-02 00:36 1) that's too much to ask of most users of the device 2014-09-02 00:37 2) if your network is insecure, and it is, it doesn't help 2014-09-02 00:37 most users don't want to control the thing from remote via public internet 2014-09-02 00:37 of course they do 2014-09-02 00:37 this is what already happens 2014-09-02 00:37 source: several full internet scans, published recently 2014-09-02 00:37 hmm, silly 2014-09-02 00:38 see point 2 anyway 2014-09-02 00:38 if your passphrase is "iloveyou" (it is), WPA2 is as good as open 2014-09-02 00:38 my home automation works different: I have a CCU-1 embedded linux device that has a web frontend on intra(inter)net 2014-09-02 00:39 this CCU-1 controls all the gadgets 2014-09-02 00:40 well, for me it's simple since the gadgets all are 866MHz, not any WiFi and no TCP-IP either 2014-09-02 00:40 sure, I'm just saying that if you have real-world people who are not huge nerds and just want their problem solved 2014-09-02 00:40 this is how the device should work. 2014-09-02 00:41 I can see how users buy such WiFi home automation gadgets since they want to communicate to them directly with their iPhone 2014-09-02 00:41 then exposing them to the public net is a logical next step, though pretty silly 2014-09-02 00:41 yes yes 2014-09-02 00:41 exactly what I mean 2014-09-02 00:42 it may be silly, but you can at least make it possible to have it secure 2014-09-02 00:42 sure 2014-09-02 00:42 (still have to not set the password to 123456! but oh well) 2014-09-02 00:42 but probably those users don't even care ;-P 2014-09-02 00:43 "duh! why should I worry when some idiot thinks it's funny to switch my living room light on and off?" 2014-09-02 00:43 "such idiot cannot exist" 2014-09-02 00:43 ;-) 2014-09-02 00:43 you should have seen the recent VNC scan of entire web 2014-09-02 00:44 I seen it 2014-09-02 00:44 oh, yeah, it's amusing 2014-09-02 00:44 well, maybe not the most recent 2014-09-02 00:44 a lot of german municipal systems exposed 2014-09-02 00:44 sewer control, power stations, etc 2014-09-02 00:44 yeah, THAT is stupid 2014-09-02 00:45 the things I seen there are unbelievable 2014-09-02 00:45 *nod* 2014-09-02 00:46 maybe I should scan my town's "IP-range" to find a few funny opportunities to save some money or do entertaining stuff ;-) 2014-09-02 00:46 I guy I knew in school thought it was funny to cycle through the neighbourhood, pointing a TV remote at random living rooms and see if their TV responded 2014-09-02 00:47 since a lot of them used RC5, it worked pretty well 2014-09-02 00:47 hehehe 2014-09-02 00:47 so there is always someone who will prank you like that 2014-09-02 00:47 yeah, we already improved that prank by using a 15W IR flood light 2014-09-02 00:47 even more over the internet, where the chance of getting caught is a lot smaller 2014-09-02 00:48 DocScrutinizer05: HAHAHA 2014-09-02 00:48 that's great 2014-09-02 00:49 IR laser is also useful, for a slightly different "attack scheme" 2014-09-02 00:49 you're evil 2014-09-02 00:49 :] 2014-09-02 00:50 I know ;-) 2014-09-02 00:55 nicksydney has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 2014-09-02 01:13 ray__ has joined #qi-hardware 2014-09-02 01:14 hi there can i use librewrt with tp-mr3420? wouter [20:10] want sure new to this 2014-09-02 01:23 DocScrutinizer05: any chance you know a good guide for building class E amplifiers? 2014-09-02 01:23 atommann has joined #qi-hardware 2014-09-02 01:23 a book maybe 2014-09-02 01:23 class E? 2014-09-02 01:23 class E. 2014-09-02 01:23 I admit I don't even know class E 2014-09-02 01:23 keyed amplifier with LC matching network 2014-09-02 01:24 there can i use librewrt with tp-mr3420? wouter [20:10] want sure new to this 2014-09-02 01:24 o.O 2014-09-02 01:24 I've been told it's a good idea to use a class E one for my PSU 2014-09-02 01:24 whats oo 2014-09-02 01:24 less power dissipation, simpler 2014-09-02 01:24 white did you see my q 2014-09-02 01:25 we see your q, we don't know an answer when we don't answer 2014-09-02 01:25 whitequark: that sounds like class-D to me 2014-09-02 01:25 k 2014-09-02 01:26 class-D is PWM, class-E is halfsine though 2014-09-02 01:26 and I think there are other differences 2014-09-02 01:27 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amplifier#Class_E has a good overview 2014-09-02 01:27 The class-E/F amplifier is a highly efficient switching power amplifier, typically used at such high frequencies that the switching time becomes comparable to the duty time. As said in the class-D amplifier, the transistor is connected via a serial LC circuit to the load, and connected via a large L (inductor) to the supply voltage. 2014-09-02 01:27 indeed, this is exactly my case 2014-09-02 01:27 what happens if change subnet? 2014-09-02 01:27 whitequark: yepo, I see 2014-09-02 01:27 from the default 2014-09-02 01:28 hm, maybe my Horowitz and Hill has it 2014-09-02 01:28 what happens when i change default subnetmas? 2014-09-02 01:29 no, doesn't cover PAs at all 2014-09-02 01:31 white did you see my q about subnetmas 2014-09-02 01:31 ? 2014-09-02 01:31 ray__: I have no idea what are you asking at all 2014-09-02 01:32 white sorry im austic 2014-09-02 01:32 please read http://www.catb.org/esr/faqs/smart-questions.html 2014-09-02 01:32 white what if i change from befault subnet mas to sothing eles what will it do? 2014-09-02 01:32 aaah, you're thinking about your 100W 12kV thing 2014-09-02 01:33 DocScrutinizer05: sure 2014-09-02 01:34 oh, found http://people.physics.anu.edu.au/~dxt103/class-e/ 2014-09-02 01:34 white did you understand my q that time 2014-09-02 01:35 no 2014-09-02 01:36 white lets try tyhis one more time 2014-09-02 01:36 whitequark: there you are :-) 2014-09-02 01:36 hail anu.edu.au 2014-09-02 01:36 white what happnes if change the default subnet mask? 2014-09-02 01:37 ray__: what's your topic? 2014-09-02 01:37 want to knwo what dose changeing the default subnet mask dose? 2014-09-02 01:37 nothing good 2014-09-02 01:37 im just woundering 2014-09-02 01:38 I'm pretty sure you're not supposed to change it 2014-09-02 01:40 mine tell me i can DocScrutinizer05 2014-09-02 01:53 hehe! >>the proof of the pudding is in the eating<< 2014-09-02 01:57 whitequark: no wonder I never heard of 2class E amp" before. In my book this classifies more for a TX oscillator than what I understand is an amplifier 2014-09-02 01:58 yeah 2014-09-02 01:58 I was surprised too 2014-09-02 01:58 would be pretty hard to make a audio amp out of this ;-) 2014-09-02 01:59 pfff, who needs audio 2014-09-02 01:59 hehe 2014-09-02 01:59 actually I wondered how the heck they would modulate that thing 2014-09-02 01:59 AM 2014-09-02 01:59 100% preferably 2014-09-02 01:59 you just change the supply voltage of the amplifier 2014-09-02 02:00 which is what they did, on a morse rate of 0.1 char/minute 2014-09-02 02:00 like, use a controlled boost converter for that 2014-09-02 02:00 at least that is what I will do 2014-09-02 02:00 :nod: 2014-09-02 02:02 jekhor_ has joined #qi-hardware 2014-09-02 02:02 FrankBlues has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 2014-09-02 02:02 any one want some green apple cookie? 2014-09-02 02:05 bot? 2014-09-02 02:05 nope 2014-09-02 02:05 trying to be nice 2 2014-09-02 02:05 2+2= 4 2014-09-02 02:07 when that's a turing test then you didn't pass it yet ;-) 2014-09-02 02:07 i know marry popion movie 2014-09-02 02:08 :-D 2014-09-02 02:09 alas I don't 2014-09-02 02:09 DocScrutinizer05: you a bot? 2014-09-02 02:09 maybe ;-) 2014-09-02 02:09 DocScrutinizer05: so you are? 2014-09-02 02:09 some think I am, yes 2014-09-02 02:10 ;-) 2014-09-02 02:10 DocScrutinizer05: im for real 2014-09-02 02:11 DocScrutinizer05: school starts soon 2014-09-02 02:11 I'll proceed to the shower and see if any shorts are caused ;-) 2014-09-02 02:11 ray__ has quit [Quit: Page closed] 2014-09-02 02:12 * DocScrutinizer05 waves 2014-09-02 02:12 austic? 2014-09-02 02:12 hmm 2014-09-02 02:13 we shouldn't be hostile to him, eh? 2014-09-02 02:15 DocScrutinizer05: btw, a less braindead version of that poettering thing 2014-09-02 02:15 http://nixos.org/ 2014-09-02 02:17 http://nixos.org/nixos/about.html outlines the benefits 2014-09-02 02:21 jekhor_ has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 2014-09-02 02:21 nicksydney has joined #qi-hardware 2014-09-02 02:23 mhm 2014-09-02 03:32 wpwrak: remind me, which is the good rigol today? 2014-09-02 03:34 1102E? 2014-09-02 03:39 1074Z? 2014-09-02 03:41 the *B series I can find here is either sold out or has very little RAM 2014-09-02 03:44 1074Z seems nicest so far. lot of RAM, big screen, four channels 2014-09-02 04:48 wolfspraul has joined #qi-hardware 2014-09-02 05:04 atommann has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 2014-09-02 07:01 hi 2014-09-02 07:12 atommann has joined #qi-hardware 2014-09-02 07:18 whitequark: 1000Z is nice. 4 chan, low cost, hackable (if you think of buying all the options individually, then you'd be better off with directly buying a higher-end scope), 2014-09-02 07:20 whitequark: drawbacks: 1) sample rate gets mercilessly divided down to 250 MSa/s. 2) intensity grading not as nice as in the better rigols. 2014-09-02 07:21 but if you can live with these limitations, then it's a good choice. if you want fancier, you could get a 2000. but they come only with 2 channels and hacking them is much harder. 2014-09-02 07:21 wej_ has joined #qi-hardware 2014-09-02 07:22 wej has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 2014-09-02 07:23 3rd option is siglent. new kid on the block in that range. their sds2000 looks quite promising but still had a number of ugly quirks in the firmware (plus a stupidly placed knob). a bit cheaper than the rigol 2000, less unbundling, and goes up to 4 analog channels. 2014-09-02 07:30 wpwrak: when I have money, I will ask you about an oscilloscope and then I will buy it. I am 100% sure you are the expert about low cost oscilloscopes in home environment. 2014-09-02 07:31 wpwrak: do you think I can build an own oscilloscope with an high ADC sampler and some serial wire connection to pc. PC runs an application which plot data from serial. 2014-09-02 07:32 this will be slow, but it's a possible solution to build one? 2014-09-02 07:32 serial = usb, yes :) 2014-09-02 07:32 ah, build a complete device 2014-09-02 07:32 ftdi chip 2014-09-02 07:32 well yes, but it'll be a toy, not really useful 2014-09-02 07:33 wpwrak: this would be a post on hackaday! 2014-09-02 07:33 naw, there's already a ton of "arduinoscopes" and such junk 2014-09-02 07:33 grml :(, somebody stole my idea. I doesn't know this. 2014-09-02 07:34 and arduinologicanalyzers, too? 2014-09-02 07:34 i'm sure there are some as well 2014-09-02 07:34 i built one with the ben :) actually somewhat useful - does a few dozen MHz 2014-09-02 07:34 another idea was to buy some arm with fpga and built an open usb debugger with that. 2014-09-02 07:35 but I can't programm a fpga. The usb debugger should work with usbmon. 2014-09-02 07:35 and many companies are angry to me, who sells some kind of this hardware for 2000 eu 2014-09-02 07:36 eur* 2014-09-02 07:36 you could consider it a learning opportunity :) 2014-09-02 07:36 and no, you won't be able to sell something like this at such a high price :) 2014-09-02 07:36 fpga-based LAs do of course exist, too. and they're relatively inexpensive. 2014-09-02 07:38 so all my ideas are already developed 2014-09-02 07:38 okay, an android app/iphone app with gpg encryption to load something in the cloud 2014-09-02 07:38 in connection with an anelok 2014-09-02 07:39 so we have already some popular members like rihanna 2014-09-02 07:39 :P 2014-09-02 07:39 but then you need to put some swarozky stones on the anelok! 2014-09-02 07:40 wpwrak: (selling) it was not my goal to selling such device. Goal is too have a open source community driven stable device for something like that. ;) 2014-09-02 07:41 sniffing usb devices 2014-09-02 07:43 pcercuei has joined #qi-hardware 2014-09-02 07:44 s/swarozky/swarovski 2014-09-02 07:46 (glass) i'm sure she can afford real diamonds ;) 2014-09-02 07:46 (open) there's also an open critter of that kind. also, there's bitscope 2014-09-02 07:47 what they all have in common: they're not very good. e.g., the fpga-based LAs often just use the fpga memory. so they can't store long sequences. 2014-09-02 07:49 a doctorand of my university works with hash algorithmn (tested SHA-3 candidates) he use xillinx fpga's 2014-09-02 07:49 and the linux IDE 2014-09-02 07:49 he always are very angry about the IDE 2014-09-02 07:49 always broken 2014-09-02 07:49 error messages like windows 2014-09-02 07:50 s/are/is/ 2014-09-02 07:51 wpwrak: (low memory) but when you have a high bus, like PCI-E and connected FPGA, you can use the memory from arm processor or something else 2014-09-02 07:51 and I mean dma activated etc... you can already buy some solutions like this 2014-09-02 07:55 (sythesis tools) everybody hates them. have you seen this ? http://captiongenerator.com/4460/Hitler-manages-a-FPGA-design-company 2014-09-02 07:56 those fpga-LAs normally go USB. yes, if you made a board that goes into a pc, you could do something a lot nicer 2014-09-02 07:56 but also a lot harder to get right 2014-09-02 07:57 wpwrak: amazing ! :) 2014-09-02 08:07 that's not funny when you know german language 2014-09-02 08:07 okay... a little bit 2014-09-02 08:08 turn off the sound :) 2014-09-02 08:12 yea, but the most funny part is the angry reaction speaking 2014-09-02 08:13 and this isn't funny if you know what he is talking about. 2014-09-02 08:13 In the 00er years of the internet there was something similar like this. "Fanta world news" 2014-09-02 08:14 some japanese news and you can put own subtitle on it 2014-09-02 08:15 that was funny! 2014-09-02 08:16 but I never know what they really talked about 2014-09-02 08:16 wpwrak: do you can also speak some japanese? 2014-09-02 08:22 nope, none of the asian languages 2014-09-02 08:22 rz2k has joined #qi-hardware 2014-09-02 08:25 xiangfu has joined #qi-hardware 2014-09-02 09:08 wpwrak: but you decrypt sometimes asian datasheets? 2014-09-02 09:11 with a lot of luck ... and a lot of english :) 2014-09-02 09:18 FDCX has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 2014-09-02 09:34 FDCX has joined #qi-hardware 2014-09-02 10:32 atommann has quit [Quit: Leaving] 2014-09-02 11:27 FDCX has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 2014-09-02 12:02 FDCX has joined #qi-hardware 2014-09-02 12:13 rz2k has quit [] 2014-09-02 12:43 wpwrak: yeah I think 1074z 2014-09-02 13:02 wpwrak: http://hackaday.com/2014/09/02/developed-on-hackaday-chromefirefox-appsextensions-developers-needed 2014-09-02 13:02 dunno maybe you've seen 2014-09-02 14:31 jekhor_ has joined #qi-hardware 2014-09-02 14:57 kyak: the apps extension ? no. but it's a logical piece. mooltipass ? sure. has a bit different goals than anelok, though. last time i checked, it was designed around a smart card. 2014-09-02 15:10 jekhor_ has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 2014-09-02 15:17 wej_ has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 2014-09-02 15:24 wej has joined #qi-hardware 2014-09-02 15:32 wej has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 2014-09-02 15:32 xiangfu has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 2014-09-02 15:37 wej has joined #qi-hardware 2014-09-02 16:26 pcercuei has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 2014-09-02 16:40 kilae has joined #qi-hardware 2014-09-02 16:48 kilae_ has joined #qi-hardware 2014-09-02 16:49 kilae has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 2014-09-02 17:46 * DocScrutinizer05 is undecided if likes "moolti" 2014-09-02 17:47 sounds like Jovovich in "the 5th element" 2014-09-02 17:49 http://scifun.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/multipas.jpg 2014-09-02 17:50 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9jWGbvemTag 2014-09-02 18:15 yeah, that's where they "stole" the name. let's hope it won't get them into legal trouble. 2014-09-02 18:16 let's hope it's not as pathetic as the original muhltipass 2014-09-02 18:17 Jovovich is hot, but the movie is more like a huge parody 2014-09-02 18:17 I'd be reluctant to use it for a branding 2014-09-02 18:18 * whitequark pokes ltspice 2014-09-02 18:18 ltspice seems pretty cool, except it apparently hasn't evolved since about uhh 2014-09-02 18:18 1994? 2014-09-02 18:18 watch out, I heard it pokes back 2014-09-02 18:19 either the GUI or the engine 2014-09-02 18:19 N-either ? 2014-09-02 18:19 nor 2014-09-02 18:20 * DocScrutinizer05 glances at quics 2014-09-02 18:20 err qucs 2014-09-02 18:20 either GUI or engine have not evolved, or, neither GUI nor engine have evolved 2014-09-02 18:21 I would expect better understanding of boolean logic from you :> 2014-09-02 18:21 exactly, the first is a logic XOR, the second a logic NAND 2014-09-02 18:22 whitequark: now you know the exact age of the world, according to "young earth" creationists :) 2014-09-02 18:22 DocScrutinizer05: oh 2014-09-02 18:22 s/NAND/NOR/ 2014-09-02 18:22 DocScrutinizer05 meant: "exactly, the first is a logic XOR, the second a logic NOR" 2014-09-02 18:22 indeed 2014-09-02 18:22 foiled by my own deeds! 2014-09-02 18:23 wpwrak: the world was created at 00:00 Jan 1 1980 2014-09-02 18:27 aka D(OS)-day ;-) 2014-09-02 18:27 it's Unix epoch, no? 2014-09-02 18:27 or was it 1970? 2014-09-02 18:27 right, 1970 2014-09-02 18:28 actually 2014-09-02 18:28 jr@saturn:~> date -d@0 2014-09-02 18:28 Do 1. Jan 01:00:00 CET 1970 2014-09-02 18:30 hmmmm 2014-09-02 18:30 jr@saturn:~> TZ='America/Los_Angeles' date -d@0 2014-09-02 18:30 Mi 31. Dez 16:00:00 PST 1969 2014-09-02 18:31 * DocScrutinizer05 starts musing 2014-09-02 18:31 the world got created all the same time? 2014-09-02 18:31 and when same time, then absolute, or same local time? 2014-09-02 18:32 -d specifies offset including timezone 2014-09-02 18:33 not Unix time, in fact 2014-09-02 18:33 (because Unix time is at UTC) 2014-09-02 18:46 wej has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 2014-09-02 18:47 wej has joined #qi-hardware 2014-09-02 18:56 wej has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 2014-09-02 19:14 wej has joined #qi-hardware 2014-09-02 19:14 wolfspraul has quit [Quit: leaving] 2014-09-02 19:29 jluis has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 2014-09-02 19:42 jluis has joined #qi-hardware 2014-09-02 19:44 valhalla_ has joined #qi-hardware 2014-09-02 19:45 valhalla has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 2014-09-02 19:51 kristian1aul has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 2014-09-02 19:53 kristianpaul has joined #qi-hardware 2014-09-02 19:53 kristianpaul has quit [Changing host] 2014-09-02 19:53 kristianpaul has joined #qi-hardware 2014-09-02 20:11 kilae_ has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Firefox 31.0/20140716183446]] 2014-09-02 21:17 jekhor has joined #qi-hardware 2014-09-02 21:41 jekhor has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds]