2014-08-23 00:16 DocScrutinizer05 has quit [Disconnected by services] 2014-08-23 00:16 DocScrutinizer05 has joined #qi-hardware 2014-08-23 00:35 sb0 has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 2014-08-23 00:38 sb0 has joined #qi-hardware 2014-08-23 00:48 sb0 has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 2014-08-23 00:50 sb0 has joined #qi-hardware 2014-08-23 02:06 pcercuei has quit [Quit: dodo] 2014-08-23 04:30 rz2k has joined #qi-hardware 2014-08-23 07:27 unclouded has quit [Quit: Leaving] 2014-08-23 07:33 wpwrak has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 2014-08-23 07:33 wpwrak has joined #qi-hardware 2014-08-23 07:46 unclouded has joined #qi-hardware 2014-08-23 08:45 mth has quit [] 2014-08-23 10:40 wpwrak: tale care, that's how allergies are triggered 2014-08-23 10:40 take* 2014-08-23 10:57 pcercuei has joined #qi-hardware 2014-08-23 11:37 nicksydney has quit [*.net *.split] 2014-08-23 11:40 nicksydney has joined #qi-hardware 2014-08-23 12:45 oh, i've had that pollen allergy for a good while already. just not in this mix so far. one of the less welcome effects of global warming, i guess. 2014-08-23 12:46 and if i was a klingon, i'd be happy with how this day started: killed two mosquitos even before my first cup of blood wine ;-) 2014-08-23 12:46 unclouded has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 2014-08-23 12:59 unclouded has joined #qi-hardware 2014-08-23 13:13 nicksydney has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 2014-08-23 13:15 nicksydney has joined #qi-hardware 2014-08-23 13:24 fsck mosquitos. They almost ate me in holidays 2014-08-23 13:26 exposure to allergens while your immune system fights bacteria or virus *can* trigger an allergy. actually it's one of the most common ways how allergies are triggered, it seems 2014-08-23 13:27 otoh while you're exposed to a heavy ammount of allergens you're sensitized to, your imune system pays less attention to flu and other germs 2014-08-23 13:29 and actually suppression of the allergic reactions is crucial to allowing your immune system to "forget" the allergy over the years 2014-08-23 13:29 I think it's not "forgetting" 2014-08-23 13:29 it's just shifting immune response to the one which is not annoying 2014-08-23 13:30 it's "forgetting" like you lose immunity to a disease you suffered 2014-08-23 13:30 IgE->IgG or something like that 2014-08-23 13:30 maybe more than one mechanism 2014-08-23 13:31 well, yes that might be details I'm not knowing of. Sure the immune system still might counteract the allergen, but on a level that doesn't make you suffer ill effects 2014-08-23 13:31 much of all this is about histamine release 2014-08-23 13:32 I've also was curious about how they "desensitize" you by repeated exposure to allergen 2014-08-23 13:32 and turns out it's not actually desensitization, just making sure a different type of response occurs. 2014-08-23 13:32 guess why they call the antiallergica also anti-histaminica 2014-08-23 13:32 :nod: 2014-08-23 13:33 immune system is incredibly complex machinery 2014-08-23 13:33 and eats amazing amounts of energy from your daily nutrition 2014-08-23 13:33 I'm astonished it works at all 2014-08-23 13:34 indeed 2014-08-23 13:34 the thing it does with DNA is mind-boggling 2014-08-23 13:34 brute-forcing protein configurations to find a proper antigen, basically 2014-08-23 13:34 hehe 2014-08-23 13:34 they fight cancer this way now 2014-08-23 13:34 antibody*. like a massively parallel computer, except it doesn't compute, it tests it against the antigen right away 2014-08-23 13:35 teach immune system to attack the cancer cells 2014-08-23 13:35 by sensitizing them on a particular property of the cancer cells 2014-08-23 13:36 yeah 2014-08-23 13:37 not yet commonly used since it's "customized medication" which is extremely expensive 2014-08-23 13:38 and because cancer is alive in first place because there's few things for immune system to grab onto... 2014-08-23 13:38 that's the trick, the scientist helps the immune system by giving some "hint" 2014-08-23 13:39 yeah I know, it's just that it doesn't work on "all" cancer 2014-08-23 13:39 yeah, prolly not 2014-08-23 13:39 you're lucky if it works on yours 2014-08-23 13:40 another thing they try is a virus that only "works" on the cancer cell DNA 2014-08-23 13:40 quite ambitioned 2014-08-23 13:41 ambitious* 2014-08-23 13:42 and if the virus doesn't already kill the cancer cells, it might at least "tag" them for immune system to spot and attack them 2014-08-23 13:43 the immune system's "problem" is: it can only see the cell hull and the proteins on there. It can't know about the DNA inside 2014-08-23 13:44 yes. you don't have to tell me, I almost graduated in bioengineering ;p 2014-08-23 13:44 :-) Not teaching you, I thought some others might be interested readers 2014-08-23 13:45 * whitequark looks around 2014-08-23 13:45 *crickets* *tumbleweed* 2014-08-23 13:45 * DocScrutinizer05 looks in wpwrak's direction 2014-08-23 13:45 nicksydney has quit [*.net *.split] 2014-08-23 13:46 also I'm happy to check my pretty annoying half-knowledge against somebody who really understands that stuff 2014-08-23 13:46 NB I not even considered graduating in biology or chemistry 2014-08-23 13:46 I definitely wouldn't pitch myself as an expert in the area 2014-08-23 13:46 but I know some basics 2014-08-23 13:47 prolly more than I do 2014-08-23 13:48 e.g. the antibody shaping is sth I once maybe heard about but for sure wasn't in my active knowledge vault 2014-08-23 13:49 that's in 2nd year curriculum today, but I think it is pretty recent research 2014-08-23 13:49 that's special detail knowledge I find very intriguing but alas had no time to look into as much as I would like to 2014-08-23 13:50 and the semi-popular-science reports I usually listen to or read are not dealing with this kind of detail 2014-08-23 13:50 DocScrutinizer05: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antibody#V.28D.29J_recombination 2014-08-23 13:50 ta 2014-08-23 13:50 this is a pretty good overview 2014-08-23 13:50 :-D 2014-08-23 13:50 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/V(D)J_recombination even 2014-08-23 13:50 much appreciated 2014-08-23 13:51 1987. how the hell do you discover such an enormously complex mechanism even without good computers?! 2014-08-23 13:52 oh, I see, he sequenced a lot of DNA and observed the recombination directly 2014-08-23 13:52 wow 2014-08-23 13:53 I also only know cloudy factoid fractions about that two-stage sensitizing to allergens 2014-08-23 13:54 the general idea is that first you have the antigen presented to your immune system, and it doesn't cause any reaction, but makes it memorize the antigen 2014-08-23 13:54 first stage: get exposed but do not suffer from ill effects. Just "lern to know" the allergen. 2nd stage: on a second exposure to same allergen the immune system actually starts taking action 2014-08-23 13:54 and then at some random point in future boom! you get anaphylactic shock 2014-08-23 13:54 yeah. 2014-08-23 13:54 correct 2014-08-23 13:55 I just have *no* idea *why* 2014-08-23 13:55 hand-over from one cell type (T-cells?) to another ? 2014-08-23 13:56 I used to know this, but have forgotten the details 2014-08-23 13:56 yes 2014-08-23 13:56 Your body produces IgE designed specifically for that particular allergen, but you won't experience a reaction yet. 2014-08-23 13:56 If you are atopic (meaning, you’ve inherited a predisposition toward allergic disease), your T cells are quick to stimulate B cells 2014-08-23 13:56 IOW I once watched a report that explained it. But only one report 2014-08-23 13:56 When stimulated, B cells develop into plasma cells 2014-08-23 13:56 Plasma cells produce IgE antibodies, which are targeted to that specific allergen 2014-08-23 13:56 The IgE binds to special receptors on mast cells 2014-08-23 13:56 Your system is now sensitized. Your mast cells are like little bombs that are armed and ready for detonation. 2014-08-23 13:57 http://www.nature.com/nm/journal/v18/n5/fig_tab/nm.2755_F1.html haha, nice diagram 2014-08-23 13:58 wow, amazingly complex and intriguing, this stuff (not diagram, pending to watch it) 2014-08-23 13:58 and also: "The mechanisms of primary sensitization are still essentially unknown." 2014-08-23 13:58 haha 2014-08-23 13:59 that makes me feel a little better about not completely knowing the facts ;-) 2014-08-23 13:59 there's quitea bunch of things in biology that we surprisingly still don't know 2014-08-23 13:59 so for example in 2014, we still have basically no idea how anaesthesia works 2014-08-23 14:00 like, at all. there is a bunch of theories which may or may not be correct 2014-08-23 14:00 general anaesthesia, that is 2014-08-23 14:01 the occasional reader might think we're vastly off topic here and now. But it's all just about `` been near-dead for well over a month last year, when that mixture struck the first time.´´ which we for sure must fight so it won't happen again ;-) 2014-08-23 14:01 the leading theory is that it is basically throws a wrench into pretty much ALL proteins 2014-08-23 14:01 though to a different degree 2014-08-23 14:01 in which case I don't know why anyone comes through it alive at all 2014-08-23 14:02 yup 2014-08-23 14:03 and only recently they noticed the increased danger of old patients suffering a non-reversible disorientation from anaesthesia 2014-08-23 14:03 hm, was it? I thought GA was always thought to be one of the procedures that if you can avoid, you do... 2014-08-23 14:03 and of course they have NFC why that happens and what to do against it 2014-08-23 14:04 completely unrelated, have you seen sigrok? 2014-08-23 14:04 what's that? 2014-08-23 14:04 I'm having a lot of fun playing with it and probably end up contributing 2014-08-23 14:04 sth like seti? 2014-08-23 14:05 seti@home 2014-08-23 14:05 a FOSS toolchain for logic analyzers, but also scopes, meters, and all kinds of digital and analog data acquisition devices 2014-08-23 14:05 oooh 2014-08-23 14:05 they have a nice GUI that you would actually want to use 2014-08-23 14:05 though rough on edges 2014-08-23 14:05 and a LOT of supported devices 2014-08-23 14:05 FOSS sounds like linux version available 2014-08-23 14:05 sure 2014-08-23 14:06 so basically a signal analyzer? 2014-08-23 14:06 a PC software for logic analyzers. 2014-08-23 14:06 and it has FOSS firmware for some of the supported hardware as well, but it's secondary. 2014-08-23 14:06 you can stack decoders in it 2014-08-23 14:07 like this: https://i.imgur.com/f5kAMCf.png 2014-08-23 14:07 that sounds like it's a FOSS version of that multi-k$ software that comes with the *good* scopes 2014-08-23 14:07 so you can for example tell it to decode I2C then decode a particular I2C protocol and display 2014-08-23 14:07 COOOOOOL 2014-08-23 14:07 nicksydney has joined #qi-hardware 2014-08-23 14:07 or even decode an EEPROM write log and give you a firmware that you can flash 2014-08-23 14:07 exactly what I referred to one above 2014-08-23 14:08 yes 2014-08-23 14:08 I just added support for some chinese analyzer I bought for $35: http://sigrok.org/wiki/Mcupro_Saleae16 2014-08-23 14:08 100MS/s, 16 channels 2014-08-23 14:08 \o/ 2014-08-23 14:08 (not at same time... 100MS/s for 3 channels. 12MS/s for all 16) 2014-08-23 14:09 whitequark, so sigrok doesn't suck anymore? I tried analyzers in 2011 and the outcome was that the proprietary saelae was the least bad 2014-08-23 14:09 sb0: it is absolutely usable 2014-08-23 14:09 you will get some papercuts but it can be used for real work. 2014-08-23 14:10 (like triggers not working from GUI right now, you'll need to use sigrok-cli if you want triggers. etc.) 2014-08-23 14:10 even installing (=compiling) it was a mess, it was split among different packages, with lots of version incompatibilites 2014-08-23 14:10 still four packages, but build process is ./configure && make 2014-08-23 14:10 or install it from debian 2014-08-23 14:10 apt-get install sigrok 2014-08-23 14:10 * DocScrutinizer05 ebays for that critter 2014-08-23 14:10 DocScrutinizer05: http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/USB-Logic-Analyzer-100M-max-sample-rate-16Channels-10B-samples-MCU-ARM-FPGA-debug-tool/614202_1916810169.html 2014-08-23 14:11 it's even $29 now. a bargain 2014-08-23 14:11 DocScrutinizer05: a hw dev I know, upon hearing cost, said "wooow... I can now just sample all my test points at once with a bunch of these" 2014-08-23 14:12 or maybe I should check out a few of combined scope/logic-analyzer devices supported, and finally do what wpwrak tried to convince me: get a scope 2014-08-23 14:12 buy a bag of those, plug into four separate root USB ports, profit! 2014-08-23 14:12 a 64-channel logic analyzer 2014-08-23 14:12 for uh $120 2014-08-23 14:12 indeed, I guess I will do so. Instantly 2014-08-23 14:12 you still need to sync them but it is not a major problem 2014-08-23 14:13 hey, sounds like a nice weekend project 2014-08-23 14:13 (sync) 2014-08-23 14:13 yes. I would just use something that generates e.g. gray encoded sequence of 0000 0001 0010 ... 2014-08-23 14:14 how about cheap&silly: feed a 100MHz master clock to one input of each device? 2014-08-23 14:14 and then write a simple script that adjusts the delays 2014-08-23 14:14 well, with plain 100MHz master clock you have the problem that any two cycles look alike 2014-08-23 14:14 so if you have more than 10ns of drift, you'll end up in desync 2014-08-23 14:14 yeah, we can cure that 2014-08-23 14:14 :-) 2014-08-23 14:14 (also, it's only 16MS/s at all 16 channels) 2014-08-23 14:14 wobble the master clock a bit 2014-08-23 14:14 yeah, that's basically the idea 2014-08-23 14:14 yup 2014-08-23 14:15 oh by the way, see how the vendor logo is censored on aliexpress? 2014-08-23 14:15 hehe 2014-08-23 14:15 that's because it is literally named the same as an existing company and product: https://www.saleae.com/logic16 2014-08-23 14:15 and it has "compatible" firmware 2014-08-23 14:15 truly shameless 2014-08-23 14:17 "Support all version of Original software" 2014-08-23 14:17 wait, that thing comes with 10Gsamples buffer? 2014-08-23 14:17 DocScrutinizer05: no, it streams samples live to the PC 2014-08-23 14:17 no memory at all onboard 2014-08-23 14:17 duh 2014-08-23 14:18 so buffer is only limited by your RAM 2014-08-23 14:18 >>2.Billions of samples 2014-08-23 14:18 can save as many as 10B samples, letting you capture even the most elusive events. No more dealing with frustratingly small sample buffers<< 2014-08-23 14:18 and sigrok RLE-compresses the samples 2014-08-23 14:18 so in practice it is almost unlimited 2014-08-23 14:18 note though that you won't get 100MS/s if something else is on that USB bus 2014-08-23 14:18 yeah, no practical issue, just a puzzling marketing-gibberish 2014-08-23 14:19 I stumbled into that problem 2014-08-23 14:19 any other transaction on bus makes a buffer overrun and it stops 2014-08-23 14:19 ooomph 2014-08-23 14:19 so you need dedicate USB for it. could prolly go with PCI USB 2014-08-23 14:19 sure thing 2014-08-23 14:19 PCI-e 2014-08-23 14:20 50MS/s is fine though 2014-08-23 14:20 that too, prolly 2014-08-23 14:20 what's the input signal conditioning like? 2014-08-23 14:20 whatcha mean? 2014-08-23 14:21 levels, OVP, etc 2014-08-23 14:21 oh 2014-08-23 14:21 1.5V 2014-08-23 14:21 OVP... no clue, need to reverse-engineer the board 2014-08-23 14:21 :-P 2014-08-23 14:21 it didn't come with even a CD or a paper manual 2014-08-23 14:21 just the device and two cables 2014-08-23 14:21 too expensive ;-) 2014-08-23 14:21 hardcore chinese cost reduction 2014-08-23 14:21 yup 2014-08-23 14:21 the USB cable they have is *good* though 2014-08-23 14:21 LOL 2014-08-23 14:22 I tried several mine and the LA will just not enumerate or fail to work 2014-08-23 14:22 duh! 2014-08-23 14:22 with theirs -- thick, heavily shielded cable -- it works perfectly 2014-08-23 14:22 and a huge choke too 2014-08-23 14:22 hm, ok, that means their PHY sucks 2014-08-23 14:22 more like I had really shitty cables 2014-08-23 14:22 or that 2014-08-23 14:22 PHY is standard Cypress FX2LP 2014-08-23 14:22 they're like in all test equipment made in last decade 2014-08-23 14:22 no experience with that one 2014-08-23 14:23 ok 2014-08-23 14:23 should 'just work' then 2014-08-23 14:23 8051 core with deeply integrated USB 2014-08-23 14:23 :nod: 2014-08-23 14:23 and it can download firmware from host by itself, so no need for EEPROM 2014-08-23 14:23 cool 2014-08-23 14:23 well, for big EEPROM. it still has one for ID & so 2014-08-23 14:23 yeah 2014-08-23 14:24 it's usually used as an interface converter between USB and FPGA 2014-08-23 14:24 it has a 16-bit bus that you just route to your FPGA 2014-08-23 14:24 SPI too, for firmware upload 2014-08-23 14:24 actually I'm 'used to' the 8051, my last hw design I did commercially on small scale used a atmel 89cxx51 2014-08-23 14:25 yeah 8051 is not the worst core there is 2014-08-23 14:25 could be PIC... 2014-08-23 14:25 and almost 40 years old, so really widespread and common 2014-08-23 14:25 FrankBlues has joined #qi-hardware 2014-08-23 14:25 there's still no non-shitty C compiler for 8051 though 2014-08-23 14:25 only sdcc 2014-08-23 14:26 hmm 2014-08-23 14:26 and sdcc is ... meh. it works, but meh 2014-08-23 14:26 I used assembler iirc 2014-08-23 14:27 http://maemo.cloud-7.de/dscf3349.jpg 2014-08-23 14:28 oh that thing 2014-08-23 14:28 pusteflipper, yeah 2014-08-23 14:29 (plus a few other projects I realized based on this design) 2014-08-23 14:30 hmm, what did it do again? 2014-08-23 14:30 like translucent tiles with a 16 red LEDs behind, which you could daisychain with a 3wire connection to form moving light patterns of arbitrary length 2014-08-23 14:31 oh right, LEDs 2014-08-23 14:31 pusteflipper itself was a pinball alike medical tool, for ergotherapy 2014-08-23 14:32 http://www.mausklick-produktion.de/ 2014-08-23 14:35 http://wstaw.org/m/2014/08/23/plasma-desktopD24150.png is a ramp&target-hole which, when blowing the pingpong ball into it had a mouse look out of the hole for a second 2014-08-23 14:35 like a coo-coo clock 2014-08-23 14:38 http://wstaw.org/m/2014/08/23/plasma-desktopS24150.png is a "volcano" - when you make the ball fall into it, it "erupted" (a set of 6 red-orange LEDs in the plexi volcano started flashing, resembling a bit on lava running down the side of the volcano) 2014-08-23 14:39 (fight for my health) thanks ;-) 2014-08-23 14:39 all those targets had IR light barriers, formet of only a IR LED and photodiode connected to the small circuit of http://maemo.cloud-7.de/dscf3349.jpg 2014-08-23 14:40 formed* 2014-08-23 14:40 (LA) and only closed-source host sw, it seems 2014-08-23 14:40 the whole thing ran for hours from a single 9V block 2014-08-23 14:42 the cermet trimmer is for adjusting battery voltage threshold when battery-empty signalling kicks in 2014-08-23 14:42 I took incredibly "chinese" "optimizations" on BOM of that thing 2014-08-23 14:44 e.g. the LEDs where GPIO to GND, without any series R. The resistor onside the 89c2051 would do, as long as not more than one LED got operated simultaneously (in which case the total power dissipation of the chip would get exceeded) 2014-08-23 14:46 wpwrak: um, what? 2014-08-23 14:46 sigrok is specifically open-source host sw 2014-08-23 14:46 [2014-08-23 Sat 16:01:06] the occasional reader might think we're vastly off topic here and now. But it's all just about `` been near-dead for well over a month last year, when that mixture struck the first time.´´ which we for sure must fight so it won't happen again ;-) 2014-08-23 14:46 there are open-source firmwares for some of the simpler devices 2014-08-23 14:47 ooh 2014-08-23 14:48 like you can build one yourself out of Cypress CY7C68013A, an xtal and some resistors 2014-08-23 14:48 and have a good 12MHz 8-channel logic analyzer 2014-08-23 14:57 I'm looking at http://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/Free-Shipping-Sysclk-DX-Mixed-Signal-Oscilloscope-and-logic-analyzer-USB-2-probe-P6100-20LA-probes/614202_583945355.html ATM 2014-08-23 14:58 wej has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 2014-08-23 14:58 whitequark: i was referring to that selig thing. but maybe you're already talking about something else 2014-08-23 15:00 sb0 has quit [Quit: Leaving] 2014-08-23 15:04 selig? 2014-08-23 15:05 wth is selig? 2014-08-23 15:05 DocScrutinizer05: OOOH sysclk 2014-08-23 15:05 hm? 2014-08-23 15:06 iirc someone mentioned that sysclk was done by a dude from china (mcupro) which also done the design of my LA 2014-08-23 15:06 and mcupro is someone with topnotch EE skills 2014-08-23 15:07 I need to ask tho 2014-08-23 15:08 http://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/sysclk-dx-logic-analyser-mso/ 2014-08-23 15:08 see the CY7C68013A? :) 2014-08-23 15:08 told you, they're everywhere 2014-08-23 15:10 DocScrutinizer05: however analog sample rate of 24MSps 2014-08-23 15:10 do you really need that? 2014-08-23 15:11 3MHz bandwidth 2014-08-23 15:13 http://sigrok.org/wiki/File:Sysclk_lwla2034_pcb_top.jpg lol 2014-08-23 15:13 (not your device) 2014-08-23 15:14 seems like a variant of this: http://sigrok.org/wiki/Sysclk_AX-Pro 2014-08-23 15:19 or maybe not, just mildly similar 2014-08-23 15:19 DocScrutinizer05: in any way, the device you linked to is not supported by sigrok 2014-08-23 15:19 oooh 2014-08-23 15:19 DocScrutinizer05: http://sigrok.org/wiki/Supported_hardware 2014-08-23 15:20 most of it has ebay/aliexpress/taobao links 2014-08-23 15:24 GPIB interfaces - lol 2014-08-23 15:25 agilent or rigol, that's the question. Or even a fluke multimeter? 2014-08-23 15:25 (selig) err, sorry, saleae 2014-08-23 15:25 scopemeter 2014-08-23 15:27 DocScrutinizer05: fluke are $$$. agilent also tend to be overpriced. rigol and siglent seem to be good choices. depends on what features you want. 2014-08-23 15:27 I know wluke are made of gld, or even platinum 2014-08-23 15:27 fluke* 2014-08-23 15:28 >>The Fluke ScopeMeter test tool is the one tool you can rely on to tackle just about any troubleshooting task.<< 2014-08-23 15:28 if you're shopping for a multimeter, then i'd go for fluke. they make the only one i found so far that can measure current halfway decently. all the others crap out if you go to single-digit uA or have a massive burden voltage. and yes, this includes agilent. 2014-08-23 15:29 if all you want to measure are volts, when most will work, though ;-) 2014-08-23 15:30 so .. scopes. your choices would be: low-end: Rigol DS1000Z series. up to 4 channels, now also available as MSO. there have a lot of overpriced options but you can hack the scope to enable them. 2014-08-23 15:31 medium range: Siglent SDS2000 series. also available as MSO. better features than the rigol and much less of a "free to play (but pay to win)" concept 2014-08-23 15:32 (and the few options that may be interesting for the siglent are reasonably priced) 2014-08-23 15:33 if you only want two analog channels, you could also consider the rigol DS2000A (or a 2 channel version of siglent SDS2000). the siglent is better but the rigol a bit more mature. 2014-08-23 15:33 high-end: too expensive for mere mortals like us ;-) 2014-08-23 15:35 i find MSO not extremely useful. SPI tend to be about the worst you'll ever encounter, and that has 4 signals. and if you want to compare with some other signal, you typically only need 1-3 from SPI, plus the other. 2014-08-23 15:36 so i'd rather go for 4 analog channels than 2 analog + MSO. if i wanted to throw a lot of money at it, then i may consider adding MSO after i get 4 analog channels. 2014-08-23 15:37 fluke 190-502: ~ 4..5 k 2014-08-23 15:37 :-S 2014-08-23 15:37 since your spanish must now be quite good, here are the siglent sds2000: http://www.temtecsa.com.ar/index.php?cPath=21_93 2014-08-23 15:37 and this is the rigol DS1000Z series: http://www.temtecsa.com.ar/index.php?cPath=21_95 2014-08-23 15:37 bwahahaha, please don't ask me to understand a single word of spanish 2014-08-23 15:38 as i said, you can hack the rigol for example to upgrade from 70 MHz to 100 MHz. 2014-08-23 15:39 that site has a nice overview. at other places you often get some messy list that is painful to navigate. and you can probably guess all the technical terms anyway ;-) 2014-08-23 15:44 it always kills me to tell "X bandwidth is what I will be happy with" 2014-08-23 15:44 figure I go for a 100MHz scope and it turns out I need 150 2014-08-23 15:44 naw, it's usually "X bandwidth is what i can afford" :) 2014-08-23 15:45 * DocScrutinizer05 needs coffee 2014-08-23 15:45 100 is a decent choice. if you can go a little higher, even better. i rarely run into things i can't handle at 100 MHz. 2014-08-23 15:45 and for things like power supply issues and such, 100 MHz is plenty 2014-08-23 15:46 I'd guess I maybe run into other more practical problems when going for >100MHz, like mere technical interfacing to signal etc 2014-08-23 15:46 yes, that becomes a problem quickly :) 2014-08-23 15:47 actually PSU is a *very* good benchmark. I need to check what frequencies we might face in those switched critters, at maximum 2014-08-23 15:47 from my arse I'd pull a 40MHz figure 2014-08-23 15:47 so 100-200 MHz. 2014-08-23 15:47 :nod: 2014-08-23 15:49 for USB I'd need >500MHz, that's insane 2014-08-23 15:51 if I'd go for USB, I'd already want 800MHz (firewire etc) too 2014-08-23 15:51 so 1GHz 2014-08-23 15:51 I guess 100MHz 4 chan is a fine choice 2014-08-23 15:51 i'd consider USB HS inaccessible 2014-08-23 15:51 :nod: 2014-08-23 15:52 or 2 chan plus parallel LA 2014-08-23 15:52 you never need more than 2 chan analog analysis 2014-08-23 15:53 if you go with rigol, then yes. if you pick siglent, there's a difference of about USD between 100 and 200 MHz. (the argentine prices, with customs fees but without taxes, are a bit inflated, so they should correspond roughly to EU with all taxes and fees) 2014-08-23 15:53 i'd want to be sure that what he LA thinks it sees it really what's happening 2014-08-23 15:54 you got 2 fine analog channels to make sure 2014-08-23 15:55 one for the signal under test, and one to probe the LA input on parallel with the scope, to make a swift inspection about what the signal really looks like. after that all you want is digital input and storage for all but the one signal under test 2014-08-23 15:56 mmh, i hate fiddling with the LA until it actually shows the correct signal 2014-08-23 15:56 much easier to just get the analog one and work on that 2014-08-23 15:57 (of course, my DS1102CD also has a crappy LA, making things a lot more difficult) 2014-08-23 15:58 yeah, you most likely want a signal conditioner in front of your LA inputs 2014-08-23 15:58 sth nice that offers adjustible threshold levels and hysteresis. Prolly built from analog components 2014-08-23 15:59 maybe even adjustable LPF 2014-08-23 16:00 so, sth like 3 potis and a 2 or 3 opamps per input 2014-08-23 16:02 DAMN, I wonder which poltergeist has cursed my home while I was away. 3..4 devices of my homematic the batts went low (supposed to last a year at least, so how high are the odds 4 are going low batt in 2 weeks?), plus some fire alarm triggered, and a lot of connection-lost/data-error reports 2014-08-23 16:03 scary 2014-08-23 16:03 maybe have a second look at these things that you don't remember to have been black ? :) 2014-08-23 16:04 the receivers of those critters work intermittent. I wonder if their firmwate fails to ever shut down the RX when a continuous stream of illegible garbage comes in 2014-08-23 16:04 none turned black 2014-08-23 16:05 at least none found so far 2014-08-23 16:05 the fire alarm went off 10 days into my holiday 2014-08-23 16:06 the damn shit doesn't record which of the sensors triggered :-( 2014-08-23 16:06 idiocy 2014-08-23 16:06 it's a "alarm group" 2014-08-23 16:07 maybe "post mortem analysis" wasn't very high on their list of design goals ;-) 2014-08-23 16:08 I wonder if I should unpair the 3 sensors and form 3 individual alarm groups out of them. This however would defeat the one reason why they are RF alarms anyway: in-sync alarm on all sensors when some emergency happens 2014-08-23 16:10 of course you cannot trigger alarm remotely on the smoke sensors, except by another sensor going tripped 2014-08-23 16:10 there's a reason for all that: they want to sell their $$$ fire alarm central 2014-08-23 16:10 insane 2014-08-23 16:13 FrankBlues has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 2014-08-23 16:14 same shit with heater valve actors: you cannot control them from HM-CCU1, you need a thermostat to send commands to them 2014-08-23 16:15 CCU has linux on it, I ponder since months to force eq3 to disclose the complete sourcecode 2014-08-23 16:17 I'm absolutely sure on a low level I *could* send commands to the valve actors directly from CCU transceiver 2014-08-23 16:18 I mean, CCU syslog is recording the full communication between thermostat and valve actor 2014-08-23 16:20 and if my last PC OS upgrade hadn't nuked all that and I've been too lazy to re-install and configure all of that crap, the syslog on PC for homematic had logs about which smoke detector sensor triggered the alarm 2014-08-23 16:22 rz2k has quit [] 2014-08-23 16:22 but that really sucks to do 2 full manweeks of /etc/bla/* edits and stuff after every system upgrade. I don't get it how the windows guys can happily re-install their crap every 4 weeks, to clean up registry and whatnot 2014-08-23 16:23 you prolly only can do this when you use even mail only via web frontend 2014-08-23 16:25 I dunno, should I create one monster script to do all customization of the system via sed and similar stuff? 2014-08-23 16:33 mmmpfff, it been the crappy CCU which forgot the IP of my pc:514 during last firmware update. GREAT! 2014-08-23 16:33 homematic, my ass 2014-08-23 16:55 (valve actor) like http://privatepaste.com/72872775c5 2014-08-23 16:56 1st is thermostat, 2nd is valve actor ack to thermostat 2014-08-23 17:58 kristianpaul has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 2014-08-23 18:00 kristianpaul has joined #qi-hardware 2014-08-23 18:00 kristianpaul has joined #qi-hardware 2014-08-23 18:11 whitequark: Putin's revenge? The russian rocket parked Europe's first two Galileo sats in a 5000km too low orbit 2014-08-23 18:13 on other topic: is there a rsyslog configurator tool for dummies? I have a damn hard time reading that gibberish manpages to figure which friggin facility etc I want to filter on 2014-08-23 18:14 could it be that facility (local0 .. local7 or whatever) isn't printed at all to the var/log/messages file? 2014-08-23 18:16 IOW, can somebody please give me a clue how to filter on that stuff: http://privatepaste.com/72872775c5 2014-08-23 18:17 I don't want the homematic remote logs in my local PC's syslog file, they should go to their own file 2014-08-23 18:18 first token is timestamp, 2nd token is system hostname 2014-08-23 18:18 I prolly want to filter on 2nd 2014-08-23 18:19 man rsyslog.conf drives me nuts 2014-08-23 18:25 * DocScrutinizer05 starts puking when in a manpage text shows up that says stuff like: 2014-08-23 18:25 Expression-Based Filters 2014-08-23 18:25 See the html documentation for this feature. 2014-08-23 18:42 MEH! 2014-08-23 18:42 man rsyslog.conf|less '+/Please note that templates can also.*|hosts to different files.*|This template can.*"' 2014-08-23 19:14 (galileo) putin seems unlikely. why would he make his rockets look bad ? they're good business. besides, it wasn't the soyus rocket themselves but the upper stage, sort of a range extender. here's a good comment: http://www.heise.de/newsticker/foren/S-Technische-Details/forum-284470/msg-25688064/read/ 2014-08-23 19:14 damn that crap. what means a minus in front of /var/log/blah ? 2014-08-23 19:14 in rsyslog.conf 2014-08-23 19:15 a much more plausible explanation would be insurance fraud. after all, these things are insured. and i wonder if anyone actually still believes galileo will ever work 2014-08-23 19:19 why not? 2014-08-23 19:19 thanks for the link btw 2014-08-23 19:19 they're something like 10 years behind schedule, their old test satellites are failing at 1/4 of their design life, ... 2014-08-23 19:20 with EU projects, there's always a high risk that they're just hidden "donations" to certain companies 2014-08-23 19:21 happens elsewhere too, of course 2014-08-23 19:21 on a sidenote I find it quite funny how everybody is using https:/ for quite about everything - starting with heartbleed 2014-08-23 19:22 maybe actually a good strategy to flood the ssl bug thing with irrelevant data 2014-08-23 19:23 ;-) 2014-08-23 19:24 maybe even use http for the security relevant stuff like logins etc then 2014-08-23 19:24 weird: your link to heise wasn't https 2014-08-23 19:25 prolly again a embedded ad that was on https, I hate that 2014-08-23 19:25 and particularly the warning it creates when I click on any link on the original non-secure page 2014-08-23 19:45 dafaq! can anybody tell me what the "-" means? 2014-08-23 19:45 http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f35/wolf_pro/Galileo%20Orbit/3d-2_z 2014-08-23 19:45 ps053596a9.jpg~original 2014-08-23 19:45 oops 2014-08-23 19:45 # email-messages 2014-08-23 19:45 # 2014-08-23 19:46 mail.*<><------><------><------><------>-/var/log/mail 2014-08-23 19:46 mail.info<-----><------><------><------>-/var/log/mail.info 2014-08-23 19:46 mail.warning<--><------><------><------>-/var/log/mail.warn 2014-08-23 19:46 mail.err<------><------><------><------> /var/log/mail.err 2014-08-23 19:46 (the "<><------>" are mc tabs) 2014-08-23 19:47 damn 2014-08-23 19:48 *.=warning;*.=err -/var/log/warn 2014-08-23 19:48 *.crit /var/log/warn 2014-08-23 19:55 whatever it means, it seems to work without as well 2014-08-23 19:55