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2014-07-30 12:26 <larsc> wpwrak: how well does network manager support 6lowpan? ;)
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2014-07-30 13:11 <DocScrutinizer05> whitequark: time to start emigration, before no more hightech imports and no immigration to EU allowed
2014-07-30 13:12 <DocScrutinizer05> I could figure it's hard to get a visa for an "aggressor" state
2014-07-30 13:18 <wpwrak> DocScrutinizer05: but it should be easy to get "refugee" status :)
2014-07-30 13:18 <DocScrutinizer05> indeed
2014-07-30 13:18 <DocScrutinizer05> no kidding
2014-07-30 13:18 <DocScrutinizer05> but I wonder if Putin will let go
2014-07-30 13:18 <wpwrak> larsc: apt-get remove network-manager ? ;-)
2014-07-30 13:19 <DocScrutinizer05> yum uninstall ?
2014-07-30 13:19 <wpwrak> whatever kills it :)
2014-07-30 13:19 <DocScrutinizer05> hehe
2014-07-30 13:21 <DocScrutinizer05> (aggressor states) after all this new law in Russia will get established for some purpose, I don't think nothing in emigration politics of Russia will change from this
2014-07-30 13:22 <whitequark> DocScrutinizer05: yes, I've already decided to get out before the end of the year
2014-07-30 13:22 <DocScrutinizer05> might be early enough. i hope so for you
2014-07-30 13:22 <whitequark> in Jan even
2014-07-30 13:23 <wpwrak> DocScrutinizer05: oh, it's russia declaring aggressors ? that's new. so far that was the prerogative of the US ;-)
2014-07-30 13:24 <wpwrak> whitequark: winter ... a good time to get out of russia :)
2014-07-30 13:24 <wpwrak> whitequark: where to ?
2014-07-30 13:24 <DocScrutinizer05> nah! sanctions are aimed at Putin personally, to get him out of Government and to destabilize Russia. So all states that are sanctioning are agressors
2014-07-30 13:25 <wpwrak> that may actually be reasonably close to the truth ;-)
2014-07-30 13:25 <DocScrutinizer05> all that has *nothing* to do with Russia/Putin sending weapons and illegal troops to Ukraine
2014-07-30 13:25 <whitequark> wpwrak: I have several options
2014-07-30 13:25 <wpwrak> putin acts exactly like any US prez would, except that he doesn't even pretend to be "good"
2014-07-30 13:26 <whitequark> UK, FR, HK, maybe even USA (probably not, no higher ed)
2014-07-30 13:26 <DocScrutinizer05> wpwrak: and of course Russia will use that as an opportunity to build own hightech stuff finally. Long planned move, in 3 months Russia is back to normal and stronger and more independant than before
2014-07-30 13:27 <DocScrutinizer05> ;-)
2014-07-30 13:27 <wpwrak> DocScrutinizer05: they're going there to meet their colleagues the US sent, and compare the state of their equipment. think of it as a convention ;-)
2014-07-30 13:28 <DocScrutinizer05> hmm? sorry you lost me
2014-07-30 13:28 <whitequark> hahaha, own hightech stuff
2014-07-30 13:28 <whitequark> adorable/
2014-07-30 13:28 <wpwrak> whitequark: with you gone, they won't :)
2014-07-30 13:29 <whitequark> even with all else equal, it takes time and capital investment to get it back, orders of magnitude more than what'll be provided
2014-07-30 13:29 <whitequark> and all else is *not* equal
2014-07-30 13:30 <wpwrak> DocScrutinizer05: the usual US approach is to send "military advisors" and of course all sorts of equipment. they've done this countless times and in ukraine it's just the same. and now they're pissed off that the putin is copying their tricks. it's rather droll ;-)
2014-07-30 13:30 <DocScrutinizer05> yeah, kinda
2014-07-30 13:30 <DocScrutinizer05> sure
2014-07-30 13:31 <DocScrutinizer05> I honestly don't give a fuck really
2014-07-30 13:32 <wpwrak> yeah, let's hope the thing doesn't blow up
2014-07-30 13:32 <DocScrutinizer05> it's just a pity how a few idiots with guns (either side) can mess up a whole country full of people who just want to do their *own* thing
2014-07-30 13:34 <wpwrak> well, that's always been the case. and part of the problem there is of course that there's one country but more than one "own thing". and that's when things usually get complicated
2014-07-30 13:35 <wpwrak> i think what we're seeing at the moment is really the beginning of the chaos that usually accompanies the rise and fall of empires
2014-07-30 13:36 <wpwrak> the US are declining, china is on the rise. it'll take a while until a new equilibrium will be reached.
2014-07-30 13:40 <DocScrutinizer05> that sounds like a pretty precise characterization
2014-07-30 13:41 <DocScrutinizer05> it's prolly lest of US decline but in this particular case EU decay from bloat and poor foundation
2014-07-30 13:42 <DocScrutinizer05> while Soviet empire already recovers from complete implosion and now tries to go reaction/counter-revolution
2014-07-30 13:42 <wpwrak> yeah, i wonder how long until the EU in its present form breaks apart
2014-07-30 13:42 <DocScrutinizer05> it already does
2014-07-30 13:43 <DocScrutinizer05> in a few week Ireland or Scotland elect about leaving UK
2014-07-30 13:43 <DocScrutinizer05> Hungary goes absolutism
2014-07-30 13:44 <DocScrutinizer05> and England itself is not very happy with being in EU
2014-07-30 13:44 <wpwrak> (ireland ans scotland) well, they may still stay in the EU. besides, the UK is somewhat weakly linked anyway.
2014-07-30 13:45 <wpwrak> dunno about hungary. haven't heard anything from there. what's happening ?
2014-07-30 13:45 <DocScrutinizer05> Greece, Portugal, Spain, Italy, some analysts say next is France and that's been it then with EU
2014-07-30 13:46 <DocScrutinizer05> (Hungary) they turn into little Russia
2014-07-30 13:46 <wpwrak> greece has big troubles. the rest still seem to be doing tolerably well. i mean, not "good" but also well below the point where you'd expect a revolution.
2014-07-30 13:47 <DocScrutinizer05> really? 60% unemployment?
2014-07-30 13:47 <wpwrak> and maybe spain's upcoming splintering will take some pressure off things
2014-07-30 13:47 <DocScrutinizer05> hah
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2014-07-30 13:48 <DocScrutinizer05> the global money machine is just big enough now to eat whole states like greece and spain
2014-07-30 13:49 <wpwrak> where did you get the 60% from ? spain had 25.6% in february 2014, according to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_unemployment_rate
2014-07-30 13:49 <DocScrutinizer05> yeah, that's youth unemployment
2014-07-30 13:49 <wpwrak> and high unemployment per se shouldn't be considered a problem
2014-07-30 13:49 <wpwrak> in fact, the problem is in it being considered a problem
2014-07-30 13:50 <DocScrutinizer05> the problem is in state debits
2014-07-30 13:50 <DocScrutinizer05> the state doesn't generate income anymore, so it gets eaten by big money
2014-07-30 13:51 <wpwrak> it's simply that modern society does not need everyone to work. so the sooner the pretense of "full employment" can be dropped, the better. note the "can be", since there are obviously major changes needed before this can happen without just murdering the "useless"
2014-07-30 13:51 <DocScrutinizer05> sure, that's the lie of endles growth
2014-07-30 13:51 <larsc> tax machines!
2014-07-30 13:52 <DocScrutinizer05> capitalism collapsing just like communism did
2014-07-30 13:53 <DocScrutinizer05> the money industry is magnitudes bigger than whole the rest of *real* industry
2014-07-30 13:54 <DocScrutinizer05> and you can witness live how a small state gets bought out, here Greece
2014-07-30 13:54 <DocScrutinizer05> other states will follow soon
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2014-07-30 13:56 <DocScrutinizer05> you know that basically all the billions of EUR that EU gives to Greece are instantly returned to non-greecen banks and fonds to satisfy them?
2014-07-30 13:56 <wpwrak> well, that's the reason why they "give" money to greece in the first place, isn't it ?
2014-07-30 13:56 <DocScrutinizer05> yes
2014-07-30 13:56 <wpwrak> think of it as a nice big money-laundering project
2014-07-30 13:58 <DocScrutinizer05> it's a buy-out of whole countries by money industry
2014-07-30 14:00 <wpwrak> why would they buy it ?
2014-07-30 14:00 <DocScrutinizer05> for the same reason why hedge fonds buy bankrupt companies
2014-07-30 14:00 <wpwrak> i think it's just a collateral for money games. nobody cares about what is or lives there.
2014-07-30 14:00 <wpwrak> yup, that's what i mean
2014-07-30 14:01 <DocScrutinizer05> sure, it's only to make more money
2014-07-30 14:01 <whitequark> we're all going to die
2014-07-30 14:01 <DocScrutinizer05> sooner or later, yes
2014-07-30 14:02 <DocScrutinizer05> but until then I like to have fun and no hassle around me
2014-07-30 14:04 <larsc> in that case you probably shouldn't worry that much about the fincial industries
2014-07-30 14:04 <DocScrutinizer05> why?
2014-07-30 14:05 <DocScrutinizer05> it's determining where and how I live, after all
2014-07-30 14:05 <DocScrutinizer05> and heck, possibly even when and how I die
2014-07-30 14:05 <wpwrak> naw, that's monsanto's business :)
2014-07-30 14:05 <DocScrutinizer05> hehe
2014-07-30 14:06 <DocScrutinizer05> monsanto wouldn't be possible without the big money facilitating it
2014-07-30 14:06 <DocScrutinizer05> nobody needs that shit
2014-07-30 14:07 <wpwrak> oh, they go back a looong way. they pretty much made their own money.
2014-07-30 14:07 <DocScrutinizer05> and at least here nobody *wants* it either
2014-07-30 14:08 <DocScrutinizer05> monsanto maybe made their own money, but not enough to buy whole EU parliament so e.g. the titip(?) now allows US gene crap exports to all EU countries
2014-07-30 14:09 <wpwrak> did you know that monsanto, for example, was one of the main producers of agent orange ?
2014-07-30 14:09 <DocScrutinizer05> there's *the* big money behind that too
2014-07-30 14:09 <DocScrutinizer05> not surprised
2014-07-30 14:10 <DocScrutinizer05> bayer, basf, monsanto, big oil, all the same shit
2014-07-30 14:10 <ysionneau> Dow Chemical
2014-07-30 14:11 <DocScrutinizer05> you know a TV series "Max Headroom"? IIRC all districts been owned by big companies like CocaCola. No more nations, just commerce districts. We're not far from that
2014-07-30 14:12 <DocScrutinizer05> just needs a "Raumordnungsverfahren" (sorry lack of english term) eventually. Right now it's pretty mixed up everywhere
2014-07-30 14:13 <wpwrak> that's an old dystopia. i don't see that one quite coming. in fact, the financial system is now the main mover that affects people at a personal level, not so much the megacorps.
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2014-07-30 14:14 <DocScrutinizer05> and of course "CocaCola" is a lame joke. Rather this will be Leeman and DeutscheBank and Nestle etc
2014-07-30 14:15 <DocScrutinizer05> so yeah, typed before I read your answer
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2014-07-30 14:16 <DocScrutinizer05> I just wonder when and how the inevitable clash between financial and big data systems will happen
2014-07-30 14:16 <DocScrutinizer05> when Google and DeutscheBank fight with each other who's owning Greece
2014-07-30 14:16 <wpwrak> clash ?
2014-07-30 14:17 <wpwrak> alliance ! :)
2014-07-30 14:17 <DocScrutinizer05> hardly
2014-07-30 14:17 <DocScrutinizer05> I don't see any interest in Google to ally with any big finance. *google+ actually has enough money
2014-07-30 14:18 <DocScrutinizer05> and they're already allied with the TLAs ;-)
2014-07-30 14:31 <DocScrutinizer05> recently I seen a TV advert "Hyundai. Developed in Germany. Built in EU" (http://www.hyundai.de/CMSPages/GetFile.aspx?guid=d284ee85-a82c-4bda-90f3-d22eec3e979c) So that's the third party involved in EU buyout: Asia and particularly China
2014-07-30 14:36 <wpwrak> asia is making a lot of money. it's only natural if they eventually want to spend it :)
2014-07-30 14:37 <DocScrutinizer05> and EU is burning a lot of money, so its a natural target to get bought out
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2014-07-30 15:57 <wpwrak> DocScrutinizer05: you'll like this one: http://pics.nase-bohren.de/version-control.jpg
2014-07-30 16:00 <DocScrutinizer05> bookmarked :-D
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