2014-07-08 00:14 Luke-Jr has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 2014-07-08 00:20 Luke-Jr has joined #qi-hardware 2014-07-08 01:17 rz2k has quit [] 2014-07-08 01:35 Textmode has joined #qi-hardware 2014-07-08 02:38 xiangfu has joined #qi-hardware 2014-07-08 02:56 nicksydney has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 2014-07-08 03:55 rodgort has quit [Excess Flood] 2014-07-08 03:56 rodgort has joined #qi-hardware 2014-07-08 05:29 wolfspraul has joined #qi-hardware 2014-07-08 05:38 qi-bot has joined #qi-hardware 2014-07-08 05:56 nicksydney has joined #qi-hardware 2014-07-08 05:59 *sigh* 2014-07-08 05:59 poatao salad 2014-07-08 06:32 xiangfu has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 2014-07-08 06:54 lars has joined #qi-hardware 2014-07-08 07:06 xiangfu has joined #qi-hardware 2014-07-08 07:49 pcercuei has joined #qi-hardware 2014-07-08 08:16 _deepfire-laptop has joined #qi-hardware 2014-07-08 08:20 hummmm 2014-07-08 08:21 added capacitors. X/Y used to have small deviation, somewhere around ±0.06mm--accumulated, this actually probably fucked up my holes on PCB!--that has now completely disappeared 2014-07-08 08:21 sb0 has joined #qi-hardware 2014-07-08 08:21 I can touch off, make some rapids, then probe it back and go to 0.000 2014-07-08 08:21 maybe 0.000±0.005, which is really good 2014-07-08 08:21 5 micron! 2014-07-08 08:22 (though there's some unknown measurement accuracy in action) 2014-07-08 08:22 but with Z it didn't work... I wonder why 2014-07-08 08:28 lars is now known as larsc 2014-07-08 08:44 _deepfire-laptop has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 2014-07-08 08:59 so, swapped X/Z, Z is still imprecise 2014-07-08 08:59 the problem is therefore not electronics, but mechanics or configuration... 2014-07-08 09:04 yup 2014-07-08 09:04 I guess your spindle motor is too heavy for the stepper 2014-07-08 09:05 you could attach a simple counterweight 2014-07-08 09:06 string and wheel 2014-07-08 09:06 maybe 2 wheels 2014-07-08 09:08 this paired with an assumption in software or by operator that Z-up can get done at max speed, will result in steps skipped 2014-07-08 09:09 (this == too heavy) 2014-07-08 09:13 whitequark: maybe when you reduce ramp-up speed for Z-up and also reduce max speed for the same movement, you might already be fine 2014-07-08 09:14 ramp-up is relevant from spindle motor introduced inertia 2014-07-08 09:15 max speed is relevant since torque force of stepper motors significantly goes down with increased speed and you need a clearly defined force to make the spindle motor come up 2014-07-08 09:16 clearly define *minimum* force 2014-07-08 09:17 if the motor power gets near that needed force, odds are steps are skipped on uniform high speed as well 2014-07-08 09:17 but more likely is losing steps on ramp-up 2014-07-08 09:18 spindle motor inertia is a significant component to consider 2014-07-08 09:20 for inertia also no counterweight will really help - of course it can take away the mere weight and thus the inertia alone may be small enough a force for stepper to handle it correctly 2014-07-08 09:21 but then counterweight effectively doubles inertia of the system 2014-07-08 09:28 btw you know how to calibrate spindle motor fixture so it's 100% perpendicular to your table resp PCB surface? 2014-07-08 09:29 you use a hole saw alike toolbit of some cm radius and check which side it touches your PCB surface first when you go Z-down slowly with running spindle motor 2014-07-08 09:33 since there are basically zilch requirements for the "hole saw" toolbit, you can build it by yourself 2014-07-08 09:34 an acrylic disc with one center hole for mounting an axis and a pin attached to the perimeter somewhere to make the "tool" scratch the PCB surface 2014-07-08 09:36 the table is pretty parallel already 2014-07-08 09:41 sb0 has quit [Quit: Leaving] 2014-07-08 10:00 hrm, I wonder if microstepping on Z should be turned off 2014-07-08 10:01 since it greatly lowers max torque, probably yes 2014-07-08 10:21 xiangfu has quit [Quit: leaving] 2014-07-08 10:35 wolfspraul has quit [Quit: leaving] 2014-07-08 10:40 pcercuei has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 2014-07-08 10:41 pcercuei has joined #qi-hardware 2014-07-08 10:47 wolfspraul has joined #qi-hardware 2014-07-08 10:57 pcercuei has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 2014-07-08 10:58 pcercuei has joined #qi-hardware 2014-07-08 11:06 pcercuei has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 2014-07-08 11:08 pcercuei has joined #qi-hardware 2014-07-08 11:16 pcercuei has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 2014-07-08 11:16 _deepfire-laptop has joined #qi-hardware 2014-07-08 11:17 pcercuei has joined #qi-hardware 2014-07-08 11:24 pcercuei has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 2014-07-08 11:25 pcercuei has joined #qi-hardware 2014-07-08 11:33 pcercuei has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 2014-07-08 11:35 pcercuei has joined #qi-hardware 2014-07-08 11:43 pcercuei has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 2014-07-08 11:45 pcercuei has joined #qi-hardware 2014-07-08 11:52 pcercuei has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 2014-07-08 11:53 pcercuei has joined #qi-hardware 2014-07-08 11:59 qi-bot has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 2014-07-08 12:30 pcercuei has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 2014-07-08 12:30 pcercuei has joined #qi-hardware 2014-07-08 12:41 wej has joined #qi-hardware 2014-07-08 12:44 wej_ has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 2014-07-08 12:49 pcercuei has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 2014-07-08 12:49 pcercuei has joined #qi-hardware 2014-07-08 13:29 rz2k has joined #qi-hardware 2014-07-08 13:35 DocScrutinizer05: so, I lowered acceleration 10x 2014-07-08 13:35 that actually seems to make the problem *worse* 2014-07-08 13:35 after less than 100mm of travel it's off 0.3mm 2014-07-08 13:38 if this is repeatable, just compensate algorithmically :) 2014-07-08 13:39 nope 2014-07-08 13:39 it has a certain stochastic component 2014-07-08 13:40 seems very much like random walk, which would be the case if it literally would randomly (and with a nice distribution) miss steps 2014-07-08 13:40 (potato salad) nice. there's some good money for a worthy cause. 2014-07-08 13:41 of course, he screwed up with the promise to actually ship some to his backers. that's just not possible :) 2014-07-08 14:15 wej_ has joined #qi-hardware 2014-07-08 14:16 I wonder if I should also swap steppers 2014-07-08 14:17 or maybe even use a longer neck stepper for Z with more torque... 2014-07-08 14:18 wej has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 2014-07-08 14:39 wtf 2014-07-08 14:39 the Z motor has a different kind of attachment to the leadscrew than X and Y ones 2014-07-08 14:40 hozer has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 2014-07-08 14:40 when you're done with all this, you can start selling upgrade kits ;-) 2014-07-08 14:44 might also figure out why the X motor disproportionally heats up 2014-07-08 14:44 I feel like at some point it would be easier to just throw out *all* electronics and start over 2014-07-08 14:44 maybe just throw out all of it and make one from scratch 2014-07-08 14:45 because what the fuck 2014-07-08 14:45 pcercuei has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 2014-07-08 14:50 hozer has joined #qi-hardware 2014-07-08 14:58 qi-bot has joined #qi-hardware 2014-07-08 15:07 wow 2014-07-08 15:07 the potato salad guy is going to spend $100 on potatoes and $25,000 on fines to the FDA for being an unlicensed food manufacturer :P 2014-07-08 15:08 swapped X/Z motors, now Z skips steps so hard, I can see it and hear it 2014-07-08 15:09 I don't even 2014-07-08 15:10 what are you building 2014-07-08 15:10 I'm not building, I'm fixing my CNC machine 2014-07-08 15:10 CNC mill even 2014-07-08 15:11 hozer: you mean that's the fines before his potatoes even leave the country ? ;-) 2014-07-08 15:12 no, the state :P 2014-07-08 15:12 *grin* 2014-07-08 15:12 potatoes as 'product of the farm' are fine. But if you process them, and ship across state lines, the FDA makes a headache 2014-07-08 15:21 so what about the vocore (rt5350) http://vonger.cn/ and https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/vocore-a-coin-sized-linux-computer-with-wifi 2014-07-08 15:22 hm, the X motor continues to heat up. so the X channel in electronics is somehow busted 2014-07-08 15:22 though it doesn't appear to have worse effect than just a motor heating up 2014-07-08 15:22 shorted drive fet? 2014-07-08 15:22 h-bridge fet, maybe? 2014-07-08 15:22 hozer: it's a driver IC, TB6560 2014-07-08 15:23 which does implement an h-bridge indeed 2014-07-08 15:24 I guess I could resolder the IC... 2014-07-08 15:25 this is interesting.. http://www.homediystuff.com/fixing-a-chinese-made-cnc-stepper-motor-driver-board-tb6560-chips/ 2014-07-08 15:25 someday I am going to build an open-source silicon motor driver chip 2014-07-08 15:26 oh yes, I've read people following his advice 2014-07-08 15:26 but it doesn't quite seem to be right in my case, I clearly have some mechanical trouble here 2014-07-08 15:27 * whitequark pulls out a bunch of hair from the leadscrew 2014-07-08 15:27 okay, that might have been it 2014-07-08 15:27 do you have cats 2014-07-08 15:36 no 2014-07-08 15:36 my hair. 2014-07-08 15:37 heheh 2014-07-08 15:37 so do you think a vocore-like thing with a power-over-ethernet port and a stepper driver IC would be a good kickstarter? 2014-07-08 15:38 just install linuxcnc on beaglebone and you're done 2014-07-08 15:38 plug into literally any lpt cnc control box on market 2014-07-08 15:38 I want to have the linux-cpu on the same board as the CNC control box 2014-07-08 15:38 so you could fry two at once? good idea 2014-07-08 15:38 HAH 2014-07-08 15:39 and you WILL fry the CNC drivers 2014-07-08 15:39 or you'll want to upgrade 2014-07-08 15:39 etc 2014-07-08 15:39 right 2014-07-08 15:39 the idea is you have a power-over-ethernet CNC driver 2014-07-08 15:39 you want to power CNC via PoE? 2014-07-08 15:39 each motor has it's own dedicated driver board 2014-07-08 15:39 yes 2014-07-08 15:40 that's the most ridiculous idea I've heard in a while 2014-07-08 15:40 why so 2014-07-08 15:40 my terribly underpowered CNC eats 50W just for motors 2014-07-08 15:40 and 200W more for spindle 2014-07-08 15:40 50w per stepper? 2014-07-08 15:40 50W per three steppers 2014-07-08 15:41 but it's actually rather low, I'd like to have steppers with higher torque so I could do microstepping 2014-07-08 15:41 well, I would not try to drive the main spindle with POE (although I have seen a 200W POE converter) 2014-07-08 15:41 so PoE delivers 25.5W max 2014-07-08 15:41 per cable 2014-07-08 15:42 do you intend to make a CNC mill for ants? 2014-07-08 15:42 one cable per stepper, so you'd have a 75w power budget for 3 motors 2014-07-08 15:43 no 2014-07-08 15:43 well 2014-07-08 15:43 that's idiotic 2014-07-08 15:43 realistically, what I'd want is something that can do say 4inx4in milling out of a pcb 2014-07-08 15:44 well the only way I'm going to find out how idiotic it is will be to build it 2014-07-08 15:45 yeah, but don't put it on kickstarter. you're free to suffer the consequences of your own bad decisions, but dragging everyone else is plain malicious. 2014-07-08 15:46 how's that different than the vocore/rt5350 ;) 2014-07-08 15:46 if some guy can do potato salad I should be able to do ethernet steppers 2014-07-08 15:47 did you deliberately combine the worst possible ideas in order to parody kickstarter crap? 2014-07-08 15:47 if yes, congratulations. if no and you mean this seriously, I'm sorry 2014-07-08 15:49 and no, I'm not going to put this on kickstarter, until I have something running because nobody will believe it until I have video and schematics showing it running 2014-07-08 15:50 and if there's something wrong with the rt5350, please tell me know before I waste a lot of time on it 2014-07-08 15:52 Textmode has quit [Quit: "It was one dev, naked in a room with a carton of cigarettes, a thermos full of coffee and bourbon, and all his summoned angels."] 2014-07-08 15:53 hm, so 2014-07-08 15:53 ballscrew assembly is fucked 2014-07-08 15:54 I rotate it by hand and while going down, it blatantly skips steps 2014-07-08 15:54 this has been masked by the Z stepper mount, which actually put the entire weight of spindle on the Z stepper axle and stepper mount! 2014-07-08 15:59 hozer: don't forget to share the ground of rt5350 and the stepper drivers, this is absolutely crucial to success 2014-07-08 16:01 you joke about that but it may be necessary for thermal management :P 2014-07-08 16:01 not that I'm going to try that on rev0.1 though 2014-07-08 16:04 but to make this work I need a working board with just some ethernet-capable chip in KiCad to start breaking 2014-07-08 16:05 ooooooohhhh, you know what would be even better than a stepper... a Tesla coil!!! 2014-07-08 16:06 back to thermals though, has anyone talked about how you'd integrate thermal modeling with KiCad? 2014-07-08 16:10 grmbl 2014-07-08 16:10 I have sheared a screw while trying to disassemble the spindle mount :/ 2014-07-08 16:10 or maybe it already was sheared 2014-07-08 16:13 what the *fuck* 2014-07-08 16:13 the screw surfaces don't match and whatever is screwed there is actually a non-sheared screw 2014-07-08 16:14 so basically they fucked up and then covered their mistake with a slightly bigger screw that doesn't actually fix anything 2014-07-08 16:14 I'm *so* going to complain 2014-07-08 16:23 (underpowered) well, for example my MDX-15 is WAY weaker than your machine. still sufficient for PCBs and acrylic 2014-07-08 16:23 I wanna aluminium and mild steel and copper... 2014-07-08 16:23 argh. screwed out that stub. yeah, it's a completely new non-sheared 2014-07-08 16:23 i can do Al, but veeerry sloooowly :) 2014-07-08 16:23 screw one mm bigger. 2014-07-08 16:24 wpwrak: actually that probably means that you don't, or rather don't do it well 2014-07-08 16:24 because the tool rubs Al and it sticks to the tool, quickly destroying it 2014-07-08 16:24 what is "quickly" may vary. but chances are that you can make 5 parts before it breaks rather than 500. 2014-07-08 16:24 i use oil to help with that 2014-07-08 16:24 I see 2014-07-08 16:24 eww. 2014-07-08 16:26 small quantities :) 2014-07-08 16:28 O_O 2014-07-08 16:28 it is not actually a ballscrew 2014-07-08 16:28 it is just some threads in aluminium 2014-07-08 16:28 WTF 2014-07-08 16:29 well, that explains the poor Z accuracy I had earlier. the reason is, plain and simple, backlash 2014-07-08 16:29 whitequark discovers the ancient asian secrets of low-cost design ;-) 2014-07-08 16:29 kilae has joined #qi-hardware 2014-07-08 16:31 wait no, it's not even aluminium 2014-07-08 16:31 it is... PTFE?!!! 2014-07-08 16:31 WTF 2014-07-08 16:34 also apparently the jerky motion is due to linear bearings sticking to the shaft 2014-07-08 16:34 do you in general oil linear bearings? they don't seem to have any 2014-07-08 16:56 pcercuei has joined #qi-hardware 2014-07-08 17:06 pcercuei has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 2014-07-08 17:25 _deepfire-laptop has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 2014-07-08 17:49 wtf, they didn't lubricate the linear bearings at all 2014-07-08 17:49 and the balls have made a groove in the rails 2014-07-08 17:50 pigfuckers 2014-07-08 18:51 _deepfire-laptop has joined #qi-hardware 2014-07-08 20:13 kilae has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Firefox 30.0/20140605174243]] 2014-07-08 20:18 wej_ has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 2014-07-08 20:21 wej has joined #qi-hardware 2014-07-08 20:25 OHMY!! 2014-07-08 20:26 o/ 2014-07-08 20:49 "pigfucker", russian expression of respect and admiration, directed towards a culturally, socially, and intellectually superior master craftsman 2014-07-08 20:50 meanwhile, i wonder what is happening in belo horizonte ... 2014-07-08 20:52 I'm wondering what is happening outside 2014-07-08 20:52 germany vs. brazil is currently 5:0 2014-07-08 20:52 wpwrak: in belo horizonte there is just mourn 2014-07-08 20:54 wpwrak: I just hope we win tomorrow and wolfspraul does not watch a possible match arg-ger 2014-07-08 20:54 zrafa: remember wolfgang's visit ? 2014-07-08 20:54 ah yes, you do :) 2014-07-08 20:54 wpwrak: I will not forget that for sure 2014-07-08 20:55 wpwrak: for ever in my mind.. that match was similar to the today's 2014-07-08 20:55 for brazil 2014-07-08 20:55 we MUST win tomorrow. revenge for the 3rd of july 2010 is near ... 2014-07-08 21:05 zrafa: hey everybody! 2014-07-08 21:05 of course I'm watching 2014-07-08 21:05 too bad cannot repeat the asado on werner's rooftop 2014-07-08 21:05 he's alive !!! :) 2014-07-08 21:06 wolfspraul: welcome back ! :) 2014-07-08 21:06 always here 2014-07-08 21:06 I keep the server running 2014-07-08 21:06 5:0 what is that? 2014-07-08 21:06 has the NSA hacked the stream? 2014-07-08 21:06 zrafa: so you were right - he's watching ... and 5:0 2014-07-08 21:08 wpwrak: hey! 2014-07-08 21:08 wolfspraul: hey 2014-07-08 21:08 ! 2014-07-08 21:08 hi 2014-07-08 21:08 wolfspraul: we can repeat the asado on werner's.. but without matches arg-germ 2014-07-08 21:08 :) 2014-07-08 21:09 and maybe when it's a little bit warmer. these days it's still a bit chilly. 2014-07-08 21:10 wolfspraul: how's life treating you these days ? still in china ? 2014-07-08 21:10 wolfspraul: germany is winning the today's match 5:0 to brazil 2014-07-08 21:10 wolfspraul: ah.. you are watching as well 2014-07-08 21:14 wpwrak: life is good, thanks! 2014-07-08 21:14 hi wolfgang! 2014-07-08 21:24 DocScrutinizer05: hi! 2014-07-08 21:25 ohmy! 2014-07-08 21:25 what been the bet? 8:1? 2014-07-08 21:25 might pan out 2014-07-08 21:25 the nsa inserted another goal into my stream 2014-07-08 21:26 lol 2014-07-08 21:26 nah, they already control the matrix 2014-07-08 21:33 qi-bot has quit [Read error: No route to host] 2014-07-08 21:33 qi-bot has joined #qi-hardware 2014-07-08 21:34 8:1 2014-07-08 21:34 no? 2014-07-08 21:35 does it take a few minutes still? 2014-07-08 21:35 well, the 8 seems quite possible. how things are going, i wouldn't be so sure about the 1, though ... 2014-07-08 21:39 yeah, needs a tad more effort from Brasilians to reach the :1 2014-07-08 21:39 maybe somebody in German defense helps a bit? ;-) 2014-07-08 21:40 pcercueiS2 has joined #qi-hardware 2014-07-08 21:41 or Neuer goes pissing 2014-07-08 21:41 or has a hotdog 2014-07-08 21:41 or phones his wife 2014-07-08 21:44 no way there will be a :1 2014-07-08 21:45 a 8: maybe :) 2014-07-08 21:45 DAMN!!!! 2014-07-08 21:46 WTF! they made it! 2014-07-08 21:46 :-D 2014-07-08 21:46 lol 2014-07-08 21:46 now the 8: please!!! 2014-07-08 21:47 at least a little less embarrassing 2014-07-08 21:49 yes, I been hoping for that very much. Don't want to see them getting shot by their "fans" 2014-07-08 21:49 to add injury to insult, they'll have to play once again, for 3rd and 4th place 2014-07-08 21:49 sure 2014-07-08 21:50 _deepfire-laptop has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 2014-07-08 21:50 otherwise they could hide in some cave for the next 2 years 2014-07-08 21:50 but now they actually might get shot 2014-07-08 21:51 I guess whole Brasilia is quite shocked, desperate and angry now 2014-07-08 21:52 pcercueiS2 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 2014-07-08 21:55 i guess it would have been better to lose against colombia ... 2014-07-08 21:58 a friend just sent me this: http://www.almesberger.net/tmp/br-de.mp4 2014-07-08 22:01 well, 2014 may be like 2010, but with s/Spain/Argentina/ 2014-07-08 22:02 qi-bot has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 2014-07-08 22:03 in 2010, germany defeated argentina sky-high (well, 4:0), but then spain eliminated germany and the netherlands. each time 1:0. that's exactly the magic formula of the argentine team - always win, but only with one goal difference. 2014-07-08 22:07 could you upload the mp4 to youtube? I seem to have problems playing it in my PC 2014-07-08 22:10 naw, i have no idea what its copyright status is 2014-07-08 22:10 ()Argentina winning) would be even more damage to Brazilian soul, no? Seems Brasilia doesn't like Argentina much, while today the German players seen applause from Brazilian spectators 2014-07-08 22:11 Those suckers, not giving me my 8th goal! ;-P 2014-07-08 22:11 mplayer should play the video fine 2014-07-08 22:11 not in streaming mode 2014-07-08 22:12 (more damaging) hmm, we'll see. they may like the idea of swift retribution. 2014-07-08 22:12 ah, streaming sucks anyway :) 2014-07-08 22:12 but yes, it's download-and-play for me, too. my very simple web server doesn't even add the mime decorations you'd need for fancier things. 2014-07-08 22:13 anyway, gotta fetch some beer for tomorrow 2014-07-08 22:15 knew it! :-S http://wstaw.org/m/2014/07/09/plasma-desktopRh1814.png 2014-07-08 22:16 nfc which foobar-dirty is missing on my machine, but that stuff never really works 2014-07-08 22:17 wolfspraul: long time no see! :-) 2014-07-08 22:46 DocScrutinizer05: mplayer should be able to play it. just try it :) 2014-07-08 22:47 zypper install mplayer 2014-07-08 22:48 Reading installed packages... 2014-07-08 22:48 'mplayer' not found in package names. Trying capabilities. 2014-07-08 22:48 No provider of 'mplayer' found. 2014-07-08 22:51 you have a very very strange distro :) 2014-07-08 22:51 indeed 2014-07-08 22:52 found kmplayer-thumbnailer 2014-07-08 22:52 wonder whose thumbs this wants to nail, when there's no mplayer on system 2014-07-08 22:54 wtf?! http://privatepaste.com/a294cfb697 2014-07-08 22:55 * DocScrutinizer05 now goes hamuk mode 2014-07-08 22:55 if i need to ftp-download the binary and copy it into /usr7bin I'll do 2014-07-08 22:57 http://wstaw.org/m/2014/07/09/plasma-desktopBs1814.png o.O 2014-07-08 22:58 hmm, vlc (on ubuntu) also works for me .... 2014-07-08 22:58 maybe you just don't have the MPEG v4 codec ? 2014-07-08 23:00 http://wstaw.org/m/2014/07/09/plasma-desktopvq1814.png 2014-07-08 23:03 mplayer looks cute but as well doesn't play that .mp4 2014-07-08 23:03 [2014-07-09 Wed 00:16:22] nfc which foobar-dirty is missing on my machine, but that stuff never really works 2014-07-08 23:06 searching for "codec" is just not specific enough, gives me fun stuff like "libosmocodec0 - Library for Osmocom codec-related utilities" 2014-07-08 23:08 got "gstreamer-plugins-bad - GStreamer -- ein Framework für Streaming-Media-Plugins" installed 2014-07-08 23:14 http://wstaw.org/m/2014/07/09/plasma-desktopEx1814.png :-S 2014-07-08 23:17 http://wstaw.org/m/2014/07/09/plasma-desktopRN1814.png >:-/ 2014-07-08 23:19 http://wstaw.org/m/2014/07/09/plasma-desktophq1814.png let's see... 2014-07-08 23:21 wolfspraul has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 2014-07-08 23:22 wolfspraul has joined #qi-hardware 2014-07-08 23:38 rz2k has quit []