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2014-06-28 00:49 <DocScrutinizer05> heat dissipation is the key limiting factor
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2014-06-28 06:27 <whitequark> dos1: flash on SGS2 could actually be turned on for at least half an hour without any permanent damage
2014-06-28 06:27 <whitequark> and maybe longer
2014-06-28 06:27 <whitequark> and it would actually (temporarily) burn in your retina from 1.5m, so it's pretty bright
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2014-06-28 08:38 <astr> how many degrees would you say these leds are? 45° ?
2014-06-28 08:50 <whitequark> um
2014-06-28 08:50 <whitequark> it would get really hot
2014-06-28 08:50 <whitequark> more like 60?
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2014-06-28 10:16 <astr> whitequark, sorry not temperature, umm... angle of the light coming out of the led
2014-06-28 10:17 <astr> is that 60°C or °F
2014-06-28 10:18 <astr> i guess °C
2014-06-28 10:24 <whitequark> yes
2014-06-28 10:24 <whitequark> no idea about the angle
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2014-06-28 13:05 <DocScrutinizer05> whitequark: in HH?
2014-06-28 13:07 <whitequark> DocScrutinizer05: hm? what in hh?
2014-06-28 13:08 <DocScrutinizer05> astr: beam opening angle is obviously meant to have a uniform brightness of what the camera shoots. So for the usual F of a mobile cam more like 60°
2014-06-28 13:09 <DocScrutinizer05> whitequark: wasn't that hardware hacking congress this weekend?
2014-06-28 13:09 <whitequark> DocScrutinizer05: EHSM, yes. if you meant to ask whether I'm in Hamburg, then I'm there for 26-30 June
2014-06-28 13:09 <whitequark> right now at EHSM, in fact.
2014-06-28 13:09 <DocScrutinizer05> mhm
2014-06-28 13:10 <DocScrutinizer05> greetings from Doc to whomever it may concern! :-)
2014-06-28 13:10 <whitequark> I only really know the people who are also at #qi-hw...
2014-06-28 13:11 <DocScrutinizer05> you might be mildly interested in http://neo900.org/stuff/eaglefiles/20140517-Version2-wip/GTA04b7_upper.pdf   http://neo900.org/stuff/eaglefiles/20140517-Version2-wip/GTA04b7_lower.pdf
2014-06-28 13:11 <whitequark> full neo900 schematics?
2014-06-28 13:11 <DocScrutinizer05> not exactly full
2014-06-28 13:12 <DocScrutinizer05> protoV2
2014-06-28 13:12 <DocScrutinizer05> comprehensive peripherals test version
2014-06-28 13:13 <DocScrutinizer05> "Accelerometer" to "Zener of backlight booster"
2014-06-28 13:13 <DocScrutinizer05> no SoC yet
2014-06-28 13:13 <whitequark> thanks... I'll take a look a bit later
2014-06-28 13:21 * DocScrutinizer05 watches DTM races in TV, took a 20 min to realize the Live TV is from only a 3km distance @.@
2014-06-28 13:21 * DocScrutinizer05 listens out the kitchen window
2014-06-28 13:24 <DocScrutinizer05> qualifying only
2014-06-28 13:24 <DocScrutinizer05> race is tomorrow: http://www.ardmediathek.de/tv/Sportschau-live/Livestream-DTM-am-Norisring/Das-Erste/Video?documentId=21820958&bcastId=723230
2014-06-28 13:25 <DocScrutinizer05> http://www.ardmediathek.de/tv/Sportschau-live/Livestream-das-DTM-Qualifying-am-Noris/Das-Erste/Video?documentId=21820936&bcastId=723230
2014-06-28 14:22 <astr> DocScrutinizer05, thanks
2014-06-28 14:23 <astr> oh and thx whitequark
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2014-06-28 16:53 <wpwrak> DocScrutinizer05: you should watch .cl vs. br. amazing match. both teams very strong and playing as if the loser would face a firing squad.
2014-06-28 16:55 <DocScrutinizer05> watched parts of it
2014-06-28 16:55 <DocScrutinizer05> for all I know the loser could end in hell. NFC about that event actually
2014-06-28 16:56 <DocScrutinizer05> not even know if they fight for going to next round
2014-06-28 16:57 <DocScrutinizer05> anyway time for a bit of shopping before shops close
2014-06-28 17:01 <wpwrak> this is the 1/8 finals. so the loser goes home, the winner moves to the 1/4.
2014-06-28 17:55 <wpwrak> damn. they're going into an extension. how will i do my shopping, if .uy vs. .co is just two hours away from now ?
2014-06-28 18:00 <wpwrak> (loser going to hell) well, if the loser is brazil, that's pretty much the outlook. that world cup also has a significant political dimension in brazil. a lot of brazilians are not happy at all with the dubious infrastructure work that had been done.
2014-06-28 18:01 <wpwrak> (dubious) e.g., gigantic stadiums that will have no use once the world cup is over.
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2014-06-28 18:40 <wpwrak> and after the extension still 1:1, now the penalties ... impressive
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2014-06-28 19:08 <whitequark> DocScrutinizer05: so remember your laser printer idea?
2014-06-28 19:08 <whitequark> EHSM features just such a machine
2014-06-28 19:08 <whitequark> err
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2014-06-28 19:08 <whitequark> direct UV exposure with laser printer
2014-06-28 19:09 <DocScrutinizer05> sure, i always remember my ideas
2014-06-28 19:09 <DocScrutinizer05> and I'm used to find them done by somebody else
2014-06-28 19:09 <whitequark> it doesn't use a lens at all (I think they correct in software)
2014-06-28 19:09 <whitequark> also a single line of exposure is 80 rotations of the mirror
2014-06-28 19:10 <whitequark> so you get about 150µm of resolution due to slight variations in speed
2014-06-28 19:10 <DocScrutinizer05> :-)
2014-06-28 19:10 <DocScrutinizer05> how do they create the UV laser? blueray?
2014-06-28 19:11 <whitequark> seems like a typical consumer laser
2014-06-28 19:11 <DocScrutinizer05> o.O
2014-06-28 19:11 <whitequark> well
2014-06-28 19:11 <whitequark> http://pcbwriter.github.io/
2014-06-28 19:11 <whitequark> here's it.
2014-06-28 19:11 <DocScrutinizer05> never heard of blue consumer lasers
2014-06-28 19:11 <DocScrutinizer05> well, UV consmer lasers
2014-06-28 19:11 <whitequark> oh
2014-06-28 19:12 <whitequark> actually I didn't either
2014-06-28 19:12 <whitequark> sadly I missed the talk, I should ask the guy tomorrow
2014-06-28 19:12 <DocScrutinizer05> prolly slaughtering a blueray drive (or get one of those LEDs) could do the trick
2014-06-28 19:12 <whitequark> oh. no need. "Thus, the IR laser diode was replaced by a (much stronger) UV laser diode (~1.5W, 445nm) from eBay."
2014-06-28 19:13 <DocScrutinizer05> mhm
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2014-06-28 19:13 <whitequark> http://pcbwriter.github.io/about.html
2014-06-28 19:14 <whitequark> definitely thinking about building one, because I'm kinda tired of fiddling with photonegatives
2014-06-28 19:15 <DocScrutinizer05> nice :)
2014-06-28 19:16 <DocScrutinizer05> you'll love it
2014-06-28 19:16 <whitequark> also there is a LOT of people interested in reproducible pcb photolitography
2014-06-28 19:17 <whitequark> actually two of them (100% of people I've talked to about this) also want homebrew multilayer
2014-06-28 19:17 <whitequark> and one already has working copper plating method using graphite-based ink
2014-06-28 19:17 <whitequark> I didn't find it earlier because it was in french...
2014-06-28 19:17 <DocScrutinizer05> another typ of the Doc: to check out the exposure and all, you can use a sheet of phosphorescent plastic
2014-06-28 19:18 <whitequark> DocScrutinizer05: there's actually no need for that. the photoresist very visibly changes color when exposed
2014-06-28 19:18 <DocScrutinizer05> yeah, but it costs real money
2014-06-28 19:18 <DocScrutinizer05> while for a quick go/nogo check you rather want to use sth cheaper
2014-06-28 19:19 <whitequark> eh, it's cheap, perhaps even cheaper than phosphorescent plastic + delivery
2014-06-28 19:19 <whitequark> quite sure it IS cheaper
2014-06-28 19:19 <whitequark> for like ten cm² of board, it's maybe a dozen cents
2014-06-28 19:19 <DocScrutinizer05> no it's not since you discard it after use
2014-06-28 19:20 <whitequark> I could use cat piss, it's phosphorescent too
2014-06-28 19:20 <DocScrutinizer05> no, it's fluorescent
2014-06-28 19:20 <whitequark> actually cat piss is THE reason consumer UV lamps are sold
2014-06-28 19:20 <whitequark> oh
2014-06-28 19:20 <DocScrutinizer05> like any piss
2014-06-28 19:20 <whitequark> right, fluo/phosphorescent, I always mix it up
2014-06-28 19:20 <whitequark> I now see what you mean
2014-06-28 19:20 <whitequark> mmmm, still need to buy it
2014-06-28 19:21 <DocScrutinizer05> get a emergency exit plastic sign
2014-06-28 19:21 <DocScrutinizer05> backside should be fine for this usecase
2014-06-28 19:21 <whitequark> never seen phosphorescent ones
2014-06-28 19:22 <DocScrutinizer05> since you never searched for them
2014-06-28 19:22 <DocScrutinizer05> fluorescent plastic comes in all forms and colors
2014-06-28 19:22 <DocScrutinizer05> for pretty cheap
2014-06-28 19:22 <DocScrutinizer05> err phosphorescent
2014-06-28 19:22 <whitequark> ;D
2014-06-28 19:22 <whitequark> ok I'll look
2014-06-28 19:23 <whitequark> also these people were quite happy with my extensive documentation, and I'll probably be collaborating on documenting a complete modern homebrew PCB process with one of them later
2014-06-28 19:23 <whitequark> so I guess the work that went into lab.wq.org just paid off
2014-06-28 19:25 <DocScrutinizer05> http://www.amazon.de/Art-Manufacture-Design-Nachtleuchtfarbe-250-ml-gelbgrün/dp/B0030IE94M
2014-06-28 19:26 <whitequark> 20 EUR, I could buy several square meters of resist
2014-06-28 19:26 <whitequark> OH
2014-06-28 19:26 <whitequark> wait, I just realized what you're actually suggesting
2014-06-28 19:26 <whitequark> you're suggesting this to debug optics
2014-06-28 19:26 <whitequark> I'm dumb.
2014-06-28 19:27 <whitequark> yes, indeed I would want something like that
2014-06-28 19:27 <whitequark> thanks
2014-06-28 19:27 <DocScrutinizer05> yw
2014-06-28 19:28 <whitequark> I've seen so many laser cut parts at the ehsm
2014-06-28 19:28 <whitequark> I now want a laser cutter pretty badly
2014-06-28 19:29 <whitequark> you see, there's a lot of cases laser cut
2014-06-28 19:29 <whitequark> in fact I have seen a case with rounded (d=40mm) corners made out of five pieces of acrylic and no glue at all
2014-06-28 19:29 <DocScrutinizer05> of course for exact tests a proper 10MP camera with infinite exposure time (can get simulated in software by adding 0.5s snapshots) and a plain sheet of paper works too
2014-06-28 19:30 <whitequark> one top plate, one bottom plate, a plate with a lot of thin slits that is bent around, and two more plates to latch top+bottom
2014-06-28 19:30 <whitequark> I could never make stuff like that with a mill, the cutters just don't work like that
2014-06-28 19:30 <whitequark> and even very simple cases with tabbed edges won't work, because I have to manually file down every corner and it just sucks
2014-06-28 19:32 <DocScrutinizer05> wait till you see the presentation of real professional grade 3D printing, e.g. with a bath of UV curing cyanometacrylate
2014-06-28 19:33 <whitequark> kickstarter is full of SLS 3D printers
2014-06-28 19:33 <DocScrutinizer05> or metal sintering 3D printer
2014-06-28 19:33 <whitequark> in a year or two they will be very cheap
2014-06-28 19:33 <whitequark> and in fact a presenter at EHSM was going to build a metal sintering 3D printer using his electron beam welder
2014-06-28 19:34 <whitequark> he even tried it with zinc oxide, but it just shat all over the vacuum chamber and into the pump
2014-06-28 19:34 <DocScrutinizer05> lol
2014-06-28 19:35 <whitequark> a great guy from Warsaw. invited me into his lab
2014-06-28 19:35 <whitequark> that reminds me, I need to book a hotel...
2014-06-28 19:35 <DocScrutinizer05> recently a company doing professional metal 3D for aeronautic etc (!!!) wen IPO (stock exchange)
2014-06-28 19:36 <whitequark> heard
2014-06-28 19:36 <whitequark> I think
2014-06-28 19:36 <DocScrutinizer05> their printers are a tad expensive
2014-06-28 19:37 <whitequark> there's a gaping hole where all the DIY metal sintering printers should be
2014-06-28 19:37 <DocScrutinizer05> yup
2014-06-28 19:37 <whitequark> I just wish vacuum equipment was cheaper
2014-06-28 19:37 <DocScrutinizer05> I wonder if sputtering could get done
2014-06-28 19:38 <whitequark> you need something heavy to sputter with
2014-06-28 19:38 <whitequark> and that's probably really expensive
2014-06-28 19:38 <whitequark> I mean, sputtering is apparently done using gold ions or smth like this
2014-06-28 19:38 <whitequark> argon, too, but it's not as efficient
2014-06-28 19:38 <DocScrutinizer05> or (attention, *weird*) vaporizing
2014-06-28 19:38 <whitequark> and really expensive
2014-06-28 19:39 <DocScrutinizer05> maybe the metal atoms could even get transported exactly into place by an electron beam?
2014-06-28 19:40 <whitequark> so you'd make the workpiece the cathode?
2014-06-28 19:40 <DocScrutinizer05> prolly only feasible for *really* tiny objects
2014-06-28 19:40 <DocScrutinizer05> yup
2014-06-28 19:40 <whitequark> I think the problem is that if you want it fast, you'd need high beam current
2014-06-28 19:40 <whitequark> and that melts / destroys workpiece
2014-06-28 19:40 <DocScrutinizer05> yup
2014-06-28 19:40 <whitequark> maybe if you machine, idk, wolfram
2014-06-28 19:40 <whitequark> tungsten?
2014-06-28 19:41 <DocScrutinizer05> well, the trick is to make the workpiece get hot enough to have nice integration of the metal atoms into a crystal, but not melt the whole thing down
2014-06-28 19:41 <whitequark> uh, I don't think you can grow a crystal like that
2014-06-28 19:41 <whitequark> it would be incredibly stressed
2014-06-28 19:41 <DocScrutinizer05> metal is a crytal maze, no?
2014-06-28 19:42 <whitequark> you'd have a very, very, very imperfect crystal
2014-06-28 19:42 <DocScrutinizer05> unless it's molten
2014-06-28 19:42 <DocScrutinizer05> yes, sure
2014-06-28 19:42 <whitequark> you could anneal it afterwards, I guess
2014-06-28 19:42 <whitequark> damn. so many cool ideas to work on
2014-06-28 19:44 <DocScrutinizer05> I'm more worried about effects like xray secondary radiation when operating with such types of electron beams ;-)
2014-06-28 19:44 <whitequark> that's at 10kv and higher
2014-06-28 19:44 <DocScrutinizer05> even 30
2014-06-28 19:45 <DocScrutinizer05> how do you create an electron beam of several Ampere strength?
2014-06-28 19:45 <whitequark> a big power supply?
2014-06-28 19:45 <whitequark> I mean, there's not exactly a limit. you can pump hundreds of amperes into a xenon continuous discharge lamp
2014-06-28 19:45 <DocScrutinizer05> aaah, right, it might have a impedance like a gas discharge lamp
2014-06-28 19:45 <whitequark> same principle here
2014-06-28 19:46 <whitequark> but you need very precise pressure control
2014-06-28 19:46 <whitequark> too high, and it sparks. too low, and beam dies
2014-06-28 19:46 <DocScrutinizer05> I was thinking absolute vacuum
2014-06-28 19:46 <whitequark> no beams in absolute vacuum
2014-06-28 19:46 <whitequark> and no such thing too
2014-06-28 19:46 <DocScrutinizer05> uhß
2014-06-28 19:46 <DocScrutinizer05> ?
2014-06-28 19:47 <whitequark> well
2014-06-28 19:47 <DocScrutinizer05> what's that Braunsche Roehre then, CRT?
2014-06-28 19:47 <whitequark> any vacuum you can achieve on earth is not even close to simply outer space
2014-06-28 19:47 <whitequark> hm
2014-06-28 19:47 <whitequark> brb, laptop discharged
2014-06-28 19:54 <whitequark> back
2014-06-28 19:59 <whitequark> DocScrutinizer05: http://www.sparkbangbuzz.com/crt/crt6.htm
2014-06-28 19:59 <whitequark> this guy explicitly says that if the pressure is too low, the CRT won't work
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2014-06-28 20:03 <DocScrutinizer05> sorry, for all I ever heard that's mere bs
2014-06-28 20:03 <whitequark> hm
2014-06-28 20:03 <whitequark> maybe
2014-06-28 20:04 <whitequark> oh, I realized the mistake
2014-06-28 20:04 <whitequark> you would only need some ions if you want cold cathode
2014-06-28 20:04 <whitequark> for hot cathode you can indeed have any kind of vacuum
2014-06-28 20:05 <DocScrutinizer05> for CRT in former times you even had ion traps to keep any residual gas atom in the CRT from damaging the fluorescent paint
2014-06-28 20:05 <DocScrutinizer05> nowadays vacuum is good enough so they don't need it anymore
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2014-06-28 20:06 <DocScrutinizer05> unlike the electrons the ions don't get diverted that much by the magnetic field, due to higher mass, and thus created a dark spot in center of CRT screen
2014-06-28 20:07 <whitequark> why would ions be accelerated towards the screen?
2014-06-28 20:11 <DocScrutinizer05> err, dunny, maybe because they are also electrically charged? Or because the electrons simply "kick" then?
2014-06-28 20:11 <DocScrutinizer05> see electromigration
2014-06-28 20:12 <DocScrutinizer05> dunno*
2014-06-28 20:13 <whitequark> I mean, the ions should be accelerated into the opposite direction
2014-06-28 20:13 <whitequark> electrons kicking them... hmmm, maybe that
2014-06-28 20:16 <DocScrutinizer05> https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kathodenstrahlröhre#Strahlerzeugung  >>Im nebenstehenden Bild ist das Strahlsystem einer veralteten Fernsehbildröhre mit Ionenfalle zu sehen. <<
2014-06-28 20:16 <DocScrutinizer05> https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ionenfleck
2014-06-28 20:19 <whitequark> I see
2014-06-28 20:20 <DocScrutinizer05> I was wrong regarding why it's not needed anymore though. The fix been a 0.2µm alu coating on the phosphor
2014-06-28 20:22 <DocScrutinizer05> electron tubes have a barium pill that gets ignited after production, to absorb all remaining gas atoms/molecules
2014-06-28 20:23 <DocScrutinizer05> https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Getter
2014-06-28 20:28 <whitequark> yeah, know about that
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2014-06-28 22:18 <wpwrak> and now, for some conspiracy theory that would surprise even The Onion: http://worldtruth.tv/rothschild-inherits-a-semiconductor-patent-for-freescale-semiconductors/
2014-06-28 22:19 <wpwrak> note how they beautifully mix three at best vaguely related products / processes ;-)
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