2014-06-27 00:00 because if one side was completely flat, it would be relatively easy to mill. if both sides need to be milled, then it gets hard, though, since perfect alignment is hard to archive with lesser mills 2014-06-27 00:35 well, the upper side is completely flat except for the rounding of edges 2014-06-27 00:35 particularly where the kbd sits 2014-06-27 00:36 this however could get done even manually 2014-06-27 00:36 if everything else fails 2014-06-27 00:37 or you do it with a "atari-sign"-shaped mill 2014-06-27 00:37 the inverse function of a half ball 2014-06-27 00:38 so you can undercut 2014-06-27 00:38 that sounds good. a bit of manual smoothing is quite acceptable (and normal) for prototyping 2014-06-27 00:39 i guess there is no real-life prototype of that structure yet, is there ? 2014-06-27 00:54 or tooling like http://wstaw.org/m/2014/06/27/plasma-desktopP27898.png 2014-06-27 00:54 no 2014-06-27 00:54 there's the original kbd frame though 2014-06-27 00:55 which we will replace 2014-06-27 00:55 I also pondered to add a structure that takes the existing frame, but that's probably cumbersome 2014-06-27 00:57 I dunno if we can do casts once we got a proper prototype 2014-06-27 00:57 in resin 2014-06-27 00:58 I guess for a few hundred it's better to mill every single one from proper surdy acryl or whatever 2014-06-27 00:58 low-quality injection molding should cost only a few kEUR. but then, i'm not sure what quality to expect. 2014-06-27 00:59 luckily we need no "concave" corners 2014-06-27 01:00 yes, undercuts have a tendency of making things considerably more interesting :) 2014-06-27 01:00 we have a few L structures but only Z axis 2014-06-27 01:01 you mean L-shaped slots in the XY plane ? 2014-06-27 01:01 exactly not 2014-06-27 01:01 in XY plane we got not a singe one 2014-06-27 01:01 we got steps 2014-06-27 01:02 so the Ls are "on their back" ? 2014-06-27 01:02 but thise are easy to do with e.g. a cylindrical mill 2014-06-27 01:02 these* 2014-06-27 01:02 yes, steps are no problem 2014-06-27 01:03 what can be a problem is if there's not enough space for the mill to pass 2014-06-27 01:03 actually everybody does steps all the time when milling 2014-06-27 01:03 e.g., wall, 1 mm wide 5 mm deep valley, another wall 2014-06-27 01:04 not on spacer frame 2014-06-27 01:04 good 2014-06-27 01:04 it's a pretty simple thing to CNC, I guess 2014-06-27 01:04 well, when i get some parts, i can see if my mill can handle it. would be the first proper DIY spare part :) 2014-06-27 01:05 what's nasty is that we have a smal 3..5mm high wall at the outside, and an rather huge area in the inside that needs to get milled down to a material thickness of <1mm 2014-06-27 01:06 that only takes a bit of time :) 2014-06-27 01:06 and 3.5 mm isn't all that tall anyway 2014-06-27 01:06 but that's not much differend to your transparent acrylic "pots" you did 2014-06-27 01:06 yep 2014-06-27 01:06 yes, these were much worse 2014-06-27 01:07 actually it's quite identical, coming to think about it 2014-06-27 01:07 good :) 2014-06-27 01:07 "project ara" prototype was demoed at google io a few hours ago 2014-06-27 01:07 just larger, and with a apperture or two cut into the "top" 2014-06-27 01:07 it was shown booting android 2014-06-27 01:07 and that was actually it, cause it hanged at the end of boot :) 2014-06-27 01:08 ah, what are the total dimensions ? 2014-06-27 01:08 whatever might be project ara 2014-06-27 01:08 motorola/google phonebloks 2014-06-27 01:08 Affiliate Registration Authority 2014-06-27 01:09 well, no too far off ;) 2014-06-27 01:09 (dimensions) pretty much identical to the PCB, a tad larger so the PCB firs in 2014-06-27 01:09 fits* 2014-06-27 01:09 numbers, please :) 2014-06-27 01:09 i.e., < 10 x 15 cm ? 2014-06-27 01:09 112 2014-06-27 01:10 *59 2014-06-27 01:10 *~5 2014-06-27 01:10 ah yes, the whole critter isn't all that long. excellent. 2014-06-27 01:11 (10 x 15 cm is the work area of my mill. so subtract about 5 mm on each side and you have the maximum size i can mill) 2014-06-27 01:11 else we'd have to enlist whitequark ;-) 2014-06-27 01:11 sufficient 2014-06-27 01:12 I could carve a carton model 2014-06-27 01:13 that's another approach: stacked 2D panels 2014-06-27 01:13 but probably not to scale, at least for the rim 2014-06-27 01:14 the step we need at the rim will be a tad nasty 2014-06-27 01:15 the vertical wall ? 2014-06-27 01:15 as in: sub-mm 2014-06-27 01:15 yep 2014-06-27 01:15 how thin is the thinnest wall ? 2014-06-27 01:15 that's pretty much up to us 2014-06-27 01:16 thick enough to be stable 2014-06-27 01:16 ;-) 2014-06-27 01:16 there must be some constraints from the existing case. 2014-06-27 01:17 yes: the step to take the wall of existing case needs to be 1.2mm deep 2014-06-27 01:17 since that's the thickness of the existing wall 2014-06-27 01:18 an d that existing wall has a step as well, where the kbd frame sits. The wall mecomes 0.8mm there 2014-06-27 01:18 so our step needs a step of 0.4mm 2014-06-27 01:19 is that 0.4 mm part exposed on the outside ? 2014-06-27 01:19 actually two steps. one 0,4mm deep, one 0.8mm deep 2014-06-27 01:19 no 2014-06-27 01:19 oh, depth isn't much of an issue 2014-06-27 01:20 i'm more interested in wall thickness 2014-06-27 01:20 or ridge/rim 2014-06-27 01:20 "deep" as "into the wall" 2014-06-27 01:21 steps (in any direction) with a precision around 0.1 mm are usually no problem 2014-06-27 01:21 the problems start when the walls get too thin 2014-06-27 01:22 and then there's Z accuracy. so the thickness of the bottom may have some variation. with my mill, which isn't very rigid, that variation can be significant. so if the bottom doesn't have to be super-thin, that helps. 2014-06-27 01:24 http://wstaw.org/m/2014/06/27/plasma-desktopQ27898.png 2014-06-27 01:24 anyway, there are a lot of ways to cheat when prototyping. for production you'd want to find a place nearby with better equipment. maybe roh knows something. or nik. worst case, you'll have to make friends at a local hacklab :) 2014-06-27 01:25 oh, that looks quite easy 2014-06-27 01:25 the steps have to be super-level 2014-06-27 01:25 they sit on a level existing case and are visible 2014-06-27 01:25 that's what mills do :) 2014-06-27 01:27 I got a place nearby, university spin-off. they do such CNC stuff 2014-06-27 01:27 they take pride in doing absurdly complex things 2014-06-27 01:27 at thing on top of "arbitrary" would be the bottom, correct ? what sits on the 1.2 mm rim, what on the 0.4 mm rim ? 2014-06-27 01:27 didn't talk to them yet since I have no model or data 2014-06-27 01:27 yes 2014-06-27 01:28 that's a negative copy of what the case rim looks like 2014-06-27 01:28 the wall is 1.2mm thick 2014-06-27 01:28 and ahs a step of 0.4mm for kbd frame 2014-06-27 01:28 has* 2014-06-27 01:29 the thin end of this spacerframe wall (ARBITRARY) sits inside the case 2014-06-27 01:29 the lower right side vertical is visible 2014-06-27 01:30 hmm, looking at sketch,pdf, the "arbitrary" part looks unused. i.e., could be 0. 2014-06-27 01:30 somewhere below the "lid" would go to the left 2014-06-27 01:30 unless it has to push against anything on the inside of it all 2014-06-27 01:31 nope, but we need it for mechanical rigidity 2014-06-27 01:31 the kbd frame alone isn't sturdy 2014-06-27 01:31 the step, that is 2014-06-27 01:31 hmm. we'll see :) there may be better ways 2014-06-27 01:32 (e.g., perpendicular supports) 2014-06-27 01:32 the wall of case is only 0.8mm there, and a ... 2014-06-27 01:32 1.1mm high 2014-06-27 01:33 we want to add an additional 1 or two mm down (now up) into the case 2014-06-27 01:33 at least every now and then 2014-06-27 01:33 might be notches, 2mm wide 2014-06-27 01:33 the only bit that has to be perfectly level is the first step. seems that the rest can be bumpy since it's on the inside and has no mechanical function that would require perfection. so you'd add a vertical gap of, say, 0.1mm and you're good. 2014-06-27 01:34 yes 2014-06-27 01:36 how thick is the top surface ? what goes around keyboard etc. 2014-06-27 01:36 or we accept a eyecandy gap on the outside and make the wider inside the mech fit 2014-06-27 01:36 *shrug* 2014-06-27 01:36 one mm, or two 2014-06-27 01:37 perfect 2014-06-27 01:37 there I found it, the friggin kbd frame 2014-06-27 01:37 * DocScrutinizer05 eyeballs it 2014-06-27 01:37 some funny structures there 2014-06-27 01:38 (eyecandy gap) naw, so far all this looks quite doable. i work with similar dimensions for my stuff. and there are also limits to what nokia can have done without ending up with something the crumbles when you just look at it ;-) 2014-06-27 01:38 the funny structures tend to be the worrisome part ... 2014-06-27 01:39 e.g., i wouldn't want to have to make something like the openmoko case. that one was full of nasty undercuts and thin flexible walls 2014-06-27 01:45 Textmode has quit [Quit: "It was one dev, naked in a room with a carton of cigarettes, a thermos full of coffee and bourbon, and all his summoned angels."] 2014-06-27 01:57 Ornotermes has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 2014-06-27 01:58 Ornotermes has joined #qi-hardware 2014-06-27 02:06 ok, in ~23min http://neo900.org/stuff/joerg/kbdframe/ will be complete populated 2014-06-27 02:10 the recangular "pot" one one side is actually part of what forms the mic acoustic chamber 2014-06-27 02:10 we might not neet it 2014-06-27 02:11 need* 2014-06-27 02:14 there are 3 thin "horns" on top, and right to them a 18mm wide "table". The horns go into apertures of shielding cans on N900, the table has even a U-shaped steel structire soldered to N900 PCB. All to thold the kbd fram in position, dunno what would make it jump around when those things were not there 2014-06-27 02:16 on the "lower" thin side you see three pairs of latches protuding ~3mm into the case, those are somewhat holding this flimsy thing plastic string in place under the kbd and between kbd and case 2014-06-27 02:17 we might not heed those either, obviously 2014-06-27 02:17 need* 2014-06-27 02:20 hmm, lots of "horns" ... 2014-06-27 02:20 good if we don't need them :) 2014-06-27 02:21 yeah 2014-06-27 02:21 6min 2014-06-27 02:21 err 8min 2014-06-27 02:21 7 2014-06-27 02:22 once you got a 16Mb downstream, a 1Mb up can really suck 2014-06-27 02:23 111KiB/s 2014-06-27 02:23 5min 2014-06-27 02:24 the "table" has an undercut. so part of it has to go for basic CNC 2014-06-27 02:24 yes, I think we can forget about it, we won't get the steel U anyway 2014-06-27 02:25 the screw "barrels" where the screws go need a tool change. ah, *-08 is very nice 2014-06-27 02:25 and actually I got NFC why it's needed 2014-06-27 02:26 the barrels will have to live with getting cut by the screws, eh? 2014-06-27 02:26 yeah, that too. 2014-06-27 02:26 those are FR 2014-06-27 02:26 TX6 FRdunno*4 2014-06-27 02:27 1.4? 2014-06-27 02:27 ~2min 2014-06-27 02:27 i hope nothing depends on that "bay" on the left side on neo900.org/stuff/joerg/kbdframe/2014-06-27_02-46-06.jpg to be exact 2014-06-27 02:28 that looks pretty bogus 2014-06-27 02:28 I thinks there's nothing on PCB there (yet) 2014-06-27 02:29 neo900.org/stuff/joerg/kbdframe/2014-06-27_02-47-24.jpg shows the microphone chamber, right ? 2014-06-27 02:30 though on Neo900 I want a lot of LEDs there ;-) 2014-06-27 02:31 yes, that's the acoustic chamber 2014-06-27 02:31 we will not have that thing - probably 2014-06-27 02:32 since it needs to go down to the tube which ends on that tiny hole left of AV jack 2014-06-27 02:32 NB it's connected with the smaller rectangle left of it, the start of that tube 2014-06-27 02:33 the whole thing is a rubber part anyway 2014-06-27 02:34 you can see the two holes in rubber and the plastic bolts fixing it at extreme left and right 2014-06-27 02:34 (left almost covered by screw barrel) 2014-06-27 02:35 btw upload finished 2014-06-27 02:47 uploading some more pictures of kbd frame in case 2014-06-27 02:49 (chamber) we either keep microphone in that position (on UPPER) and male the chamber have a direct aperture/hole to the environment, or we place the mic on LOWER, so where it originally been, and make the chamber by a rubber frame between LOWER and UPPER 2014-06-27 02:50 (more pix) maybe snap a few of the things it attached to as well 2014-06-27 02:50 I somehow prefer solution #1 since it allows for symmetrical second mic on left side 2014-06-27 02:50 sorry? 2014-06-27 02:51 and it would be nice if you did a little triage first. e.g., if you have N pictures of the same area, keep only the best. it's very tedious to sift through a large collection over the net 2014-06-27 02:51 sorry 2014-06-27 02:51 (more pix) remove kbd critter, then take pictures of that's underneath 2014-06-27 02:51 yeah, will weed out a few of them 2014-06-27 02:51 #s/that/what/ 2014-06-27 02:53 the first three "identical" pictures are of case without frame, a lot are actually bogus shit with frame places randomly on top 2014-06-27 02:54 for what's *actually* underneath the frame in N900, refer to highres scans of PCB 2014-06-27 02:54 the frame obviously sits on top of the hige white domesheet 2014-06-27 02:54 huge* 2014-06-27 05:12 xiangfu has joined #qi-hardware 2014-06-27 05:33 xiangfu has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 2014-06-27 06:53 someone pinged me? 2014-06-27 07:00 we just thought about recruiting you for spacer milling :) 2014-06-27 07:17 oh 2014-06-27 07:33 Textmode has joined #qi-hardware 2014-06-27 07:35 with great CNC mills comes great responsibility ;-) 2014-06-27 07:36 pcercuei has joined #qi-hardware 2014-06-27 07:41 nicksydney has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 2014-06-27 07:46 nicksydney has joined #qi-hardware 2014-06-27 09:01 :p 2014-06-27 09:01 I could try it 2014-06-27 09:20 you even have an N900, don't you ? 2014-06-27 10:01 ...and I've completely forgotten how to navigate the nn's filesystem. 2014-06-27 10:02 wait, didn't it have some limitations on what partition formats it supported? 2014-06-27 10:04 might explain why I can't find my card... 2014-06-27 10:13 wpwrak: nope I don't 2014-06-27 10:22 ah, right, that was a gta04 2014-06-27 10:44 nope 2014-06-27 10:44 I only preordered neo900 2014-06-27 11:56 pcercuei_ has joined #qi-hardware 2014-06-27 11:57 pcercuei has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 2014-06-27 12:02 pcercuei_ has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 2014-06-27 12:03 pcercuei has joined #qi-hardware 2014-06-27 12:03 rz2k has joined #qi-hardware 2014-06-27 12:16 zear has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 2014-06-27 12:22 valhalla has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 2014-06-27 12:22 valhalla has joined #qi-hardware 2014-06-27 12:33 zear has joined #qi-hardware 2014-06-27 13:11 pcercuei has quit [Disconnected by services] 2014-06-27 13:12 pcercuei has joined #qi-hardware 2014-06-27 13:27 FDCX has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 2014-06-27 13:38 FDCX has joined #qi-hardware 2014-06-27 14:02 nicksydney has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 2014-06-27 14:02 nicksydney has joined #qi-hardware 2014-06-27 14:17 pcercuei has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 2014-06-27 14:40 wolfspraul has joined #qi-hardware 2014-06-27 15:10 pcercuei has joined #qi-hardware 2014-06-27 15:33 kyak has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 2014-06-27 15:39 kyak has joined #qi-hardware 2014-06-27 15:46 whee, seems we'll have an **UPGRADE WEEKEND**. colorful bug in LZO found, article in german: http://www.heise.de/meldung/Zwanzig-Jahre-alte-Luecke-in-Lempel-Ziv-Kompression-gefaehrdet-Linux-Nutzer-2240442.html 2014-06-27 15:50 argg 2014-06-27 15:53 fun for the whole family? 2014-06-27 15:53 well, it seems that it's less bad than it looks: fastcompression.blogspot.de/2014/06/debunking-lz4-20-years-old-bug-myth.html 2014-06-27 15:54 of course, still a good idea to fix it before someone finds an exploit that can do serious damage despite the problem being considered "harmless". wouldn't be the first time something like that happens. 2014-06-27 15:58 yeah. exploits never grow weaker, only more powerful. 2014-06-27 16:08 sure 2014-06-27 16:08 real security issues are just playing lego with a sum of inoffensive exploits, when summing them it ends up deadly 2014-06-27 16:35 pcercuei has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 2014-06-27 17:36 :-( 2014-06-27 18:31 Textmode has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 2014-06-27 18:45 * DocScrutinizer05 figures an ICBM built of Lego blocks 2014-06-27 19:02 wej_ has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 2014-06-27 19:14 wej has joined #qi-hardware 2014-06-27 19:43 uwe_mobile has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 2014-06-27 19:43 wpwrak has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 2014-06-27 19:43 wpwrak has joined #qi-hardware 2014-06-27 19:44 uwe_mobile has joined #qi-hardware 2014-06-27 20:36 wolfspraul has quit [Quit: leaving] 2014-06-27 20:52 FDCX has quit [*.net *.split] 2014-06-27 20:57 FDCX has joined #qi-hardware 2014-06-27 20:58 FDCX has quit [*.net *.split] 2014-06-27 21:02 FDCX has joined #qi-hardware 2014-06-27 21:25 Ornoterm1s has joined #qi-hardware 2014-06-27 21:26 uwe__ has joined #qi-hardware 2014-06-27 21:26 eintopf_ has joined #qi-hardware 2014-06-27 21:31 nicksydney has quit [*.net *.split] 2014-06-27 21:31 Ornotermes has quit [*.net *.split] 2014-06-27 21:31 eintopf has quit [*.net *.split] 2014-06-27 21:31 uwe_ has quit [*.net *.split] 2014-06-27 21:46 I want to get a led that is as bright as the ones in smartphones for camera flashes/touch. what sort of brightness would you say there are and do they have a special name? 2014-06-27 22:10 wej has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 2014-06-27 22:35 maybe search a parts catalog for "flash" ? that should find some specifically designed for such use 2014-06-27 22:35 well, or at least specifically marketed :) 2014-06-27 23:08 I guess I look based on brightness, I don't plan to use them for flashes specifically 2014-06-27 23:09 flash leds on phones can be very bright, but only briefly 2014-06-27 23:10 if you use flashlight mode, it's not as bright as on short flash