2014-06-01 00:36 pcercueiS2 has quit [Quit: Yaaic - Yet another Android IRC client - http://www.yaaic.org] 2014-06-01 00:41 wtf, that been the most massive *distributed* brute force crack attack to my box ever 2014-06-01 00:43 at least a 50some different IPs spammed SMTP with the usual idiotic login attempts 2014-06-01 00:43 concurrently 2014-06-01 01:00 hmm. wonder if this has something to do with my host (where also all my mail goes) having very erratic connectivity 2014-06-01 01:02 50 is not "massive" 2014-06-01 01:02 50k is more like it 2014-06-01 01:03 in russia, 50k distributed brutes attack you every morning, even before the first vodka 2014-06-01 01:04 lol 2014-06-01 01:07 yeah, neo900.org probably saw much bigger "attacks" in its lifetime 2014-06-01 01:09 dos1: appropriate nick 2014-06-01 01:09 :D 2014-06-01 01:16 now i understand why dos1 handles the customer contact at neo900 ! 2014-06-01 04:20 rz2k has joined #qi-hardware 2014-06-01 04:20 atommann has joined #qi-hardware 2014-06-01 04:33 FDCX_ has quit [Excess Flood] 2014-06-01 04:33 FDCX_ has joined #qi-hardware 2014-06-01 04:41 unclouded has quit [Quit: Leaving] 2014-06-01 04:48 atommann has quit [Quit: Leaving] 2014-06-01 05:10 hardcore: http://hackaday.com/2014/05/31/poor-mans-3d-printer-looks-rough-prints-great/ 2014-06-01 05:16 indeed, the question is right on the mark :) nice, but too unique 2014-06-01 05:19 [commit] Werner Almesberger: modules/1059.fpd (1059, 1060): Keystone CR2032 battery holders (TH and SMT) (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/kicad-libs/b7d32fa 2014-06-01 05:19 [commit] Werner Almesberger: modules/HIERARCHY: added more sub-caregories for Connector/{SMT, TH} (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/kicad-libs/e83674a 2014-06-01 05:23 and now .. 378 footprints in the catalog ! http://downloads.qi-hardware.com/people/werner/tmp/kicad-libs-modules.pdf 2014-06-01 05:27 [commit] Werner Almesberger: modules/1059.fpd: renamed 1059, 1060 to KS-* to avoid confusion with stdpass (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/kicad-libs/365de11 2014-06-01 07:29 michael_lee has joined #qi-hardware 2014-06-01 07:47 nicksydney has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 2014-06-01 07:49 nicksydney has joined #qi-hardware 2014-06-01 08:06 this is nice http://dangerousprototypes.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=68&t=6477&sid=b23c9d8921a34144cc07e5c75464c785 (SMT700 New vision based SMT machine from SMALLSMT) 2014-06-01 08:06 SMT700 New vision based SMT machine from SMALLSMT 2014-06-01 08:06 http://smallsmt.com/ 2014-06-01 08:11 uhhh http://www.martin-kumm.de/wiki/doku.php?id=Projects:SMD_Solderstation ( SMD Soldering Station for Weller Soldering Tips ) 2014-06-01 08:26 sb0 has joined #qi-hardware 2014-06-01 08:31 pcercueiS2 has joined #qi-hardware 2014-06-01 08:31 this is very handy https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dhb4TAzPmI8&feature=player_embedded Macgyver SMD Soldering Iron Adaptor 2014-06-01 09:22 smallsmt seems extremely unfinished 2014-06-01 10:26 whitequark: seems like it....WIP i suppose 2014-06-01 11:08 pretty machine :) 2014-06-01 11:12 and they aim for about the same price as the ACME TM220A/TM240A, with better features 2014-06-01 11:13 now add direct solder paste deposit (should be feasible) and selective ion beam soldering (i just made that one up), and you have your one-box smt line 2014-06-01 11:13 ion beam? just use an ir laser 2014-06-01 11:14 then all you need is an unboxer 2014-06-01 11:14 won't the IR laser give you trouble with reflections ? 2014-06-01 11:17 well 2014-06-01 11:17 ion beam has a few problems too 2014-06-01 11:17 for example, focusing. 2014-06-01 11:30 now here's a challenge for you now that you've tamed the CNC machine :) 2014-06-01 11:55 huza has joined #qi-hardware 2014-06-01 12:14 huza has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 2014-06-01 12:17 hmm, kicad really wants be to redraw zones manually. copy helpfully places the copy right on the original, so the only way to move them is by moving them individually. and when i do this, pcbnew crashes :( 2014-06-01 12:53 wolfspraul has joined #qi-hardware 2014-06-01 13:35 [commit] Werner Almesberger: dsv/dsv: add Z tag to select files in ZIP archive not ending in .zip (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/eda-tools/7067c00 2014-06-01 13:35 [commit] Werner Almesberger: dsv/dsv: change indentation to tab instead of 4 spaces; fix typo (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/eda-tools/8c5d7d7 2014-06-01 13:35 [commit] Werner Almesberger: rptflt/rptflt.pl: filter for KiCad DRC reports (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/eda-tools/c07e33b 2014-06-01 13:36 oh, had some ancient unpushed changes 2014-06-01 13:37 woohoo, bought a new pump and a 5L tank 2014-06-01 13:38 don't forget to add a new apartment with a nice large factory hall to that shopping list as well 2014-06-01 13:41 well... that more depends on property prices 2014-06-01 13:44 at wherever I will finally move 2014-06-01 13:46 whitequark: hey, Nuernberg/Fuerth/Erlangen is a nice place to live - but you'll most likely prefer Berlin or sth like that 2014-06-01 13:47 why do you think I'd prefer Berlin? 2014-06-01 13:47 compared to Moscow Nuernberg must feel to you like a village 2014-06-01 13:47 (there is a reason I perhaps would, although it's not what you'd expect and not really set in stone) 2014-06-01 13:47 well duh, have I ever said I like Moscow? 2014-06-01 13:48 joerg;s area isn't too far from austria, so you can get decent beer, too 2014-06-01 13:48 I would fucking burn it down to ground if I could 2014-06-01 13:48 I hate every inch of this place 2014-06-01 13:48 berlin should also be a bit colder than than bavaria 2014-06-01 13:48 yeah, for sure 2014-06-01 13:48 I mean, just today it managed to remind me all the reasons I do 2014-06-01 13:48 and more opportunities for finding work, I guess 2014-06-01 13:49 dysfunctional public transport, hot, smelly, dirty, cars everywhere 2014-06-01 13:49 ah, then perhaps iceland ? friendly, probably quite tidy, cold 2014-06-01 13:49 not a single nice quiet place I know of 2014-06-01 13:49 and they shouldn't have a lot of cars either 2014-06-01 13:49 DocScrutinizer05: so, well, a village would actually be quite welcome 2014-06-01 13:50 as long as that village has broadband and working postal service 2014-06-01 13:50 by "working", I mean "working not worse than RU post" 2014-06-01 13:50 I highly doubt that even the most remote corner of DE has post that works worse than ours 2014-06-01 13:51 DocScrutinizer05: (opportunities) more and more companies are willing to go for remote work, but yeah, that's still an important factor 2014-06-01 13:52 most importantly, what are the property prices in Berlin? say I have a 30 sq. m. (I think?) apartment here, how much would rent cost me there? 2014-06-01 13:53 https://maps.google.de/maps?q=49.448802,11.055081&hl=de&ll=49.449044,11.054864&spn=0.005671,0.016512&sll=49.448880,11.055030&layer=c&cbp=13,277.84,,0,4.37&cbll=49.449004,11.054704&t=m&z=17&panoid=xjc51txeXraeIRpIW5CfMw 2014-06-01 13:53 "Erlangen" would be a funny place to live in, though for all the wrong reasons :D 2014-06-01 13:54 hmm, an elderly aunt of mine has a whole unused apartment in her house. lives in a "city" that pretty much qualifies as "in the middle of nowhere" in austria. they have impressive traffic, though, because there's a highway going right through their market place. but they're planning to fix this (like they have for the last few decades :) 2014-06-01 13:55 DocScrutinizer05: compare to: (my current place) https://www.google.com/maps/place/%D0%A0%D0%BE%D0%B6%D0%B4%D0%B5%D1%81%D1%82%D0%B2%D0%B5%D0%BD%D1%81%D0%BA%D0%B0%D1%8F+%D1%83%D0%BB.,+23%2F33/@55.705746,37.921852,3a,75y,359.86h,87.99t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sOTc9q9iRaiJVHqJDZN96oA!2e0!4m2!3m1!1s0x414ac9c194ced56b:0x25a87230e7457c19 2014-06-01 13:55 nasty 2014-06-01 13:55 basically how most of moscow looks like 2014-06-01 13:56 wpwrak: hmmm! enticing 2014-06-01 13:58 DocScrutinizer05: I've heard that Berlin is one of 3 cities more expensive than Moscow 2014-06-01 13:58 next to NY and London 2014-06-01 13:58 https://maps.google.de/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=de&geocode=&q=49.448802,11.055081&aq=&sll=49.448802,11.055081&sspn=0.001367,0.004128&vpsrc=0&ie=UTF8&t=m&z=16 2014-06-01 13:59 I thought there's no city more expensive than Moscow 2014-06-01 13:59 depending on your metrics, of course 2014-06-01 14:00 well, to give you a ballpark: my 58m^2 cost 340€/month + 40EUR for crap&bla +60EUR for heating 2014-06-01 14:00 well... for this tiny apartment in the second dirtiest neighbourhood of moscow I pay $750 plus electricity (that's like $10), monthly 2014-06-01 14:00 for their traffic problem, see the picture on page 2 of http://www.land-oberoesterreich.gv.at/cps/rde/xbcr/ooe/mattighofen_folder.pdf (worth enlarging :) 2014-06-01 14:01 DocScrutinizer05: seems it's substantially cheaper 2014-06-01 14:01 sure 2014-06-01 14:01 Nuernberg has 500k residents 2014-06-01 14:01 Nue/Fue/Er ~1mio I guess 2014-06-01 14:02 wpwrak: you call that "a traffic problem"? 2014-06-01 14:02 (current place) nice ! spacious, a lot of green 2014-06-01 14:02 for a "city" with less than 6000 inhabitants it's pretty good :) 2014-06-01 14:02 it's actually commonplace in Moscow in some parts to have a traffic jam at 2AM 2014-06-01 14:03 I'm not sure whether it ever dissolves, in fact 2014-06-01 14:03 at 2 am you'd probably have the whole place to yourself :) 2014-06-01 14:04 at my place? there's actually quite a lot of heavy traffic for such time 2014-06-01 14:04 like, I don't think the chunk of road immediately visible from my window ever completely clears of cars 2014-06-01 14:04 at any time at all 2014-06-01 14:05 in fact, at night it's mostly loud, heavy trucks 2014-06-01 14:05 no, i mean mattighofen. people there go to bed when the sun sets :) 2014-06-01 14:05 ah 2014-06-01 14:05 lots of green? that's lots of green: http://wstaw.org/m/2014/06/01/plasma-desktopim1787.png 2014-06-01 14:05 ^ 2014-06-01 14:07 related: how the heck do you share google streetview URLs? 2014-06-01 14:07 DocScrutinizer05: ... I copy them from the URL bar? 2014-06-01 14:07 doesn't work for me, it seems 2014-06-01 14:07 weird 2014-06-01 14:07 konqueror I guess 2014-06-01 14:07 it has a nasty tendency to sometimes not update the addr filed URL 2014-06-01 14:08 field* 2014-06-01 14:08 oh, I see 2014-06-01 14:08 probably doesn't support html5 pushstate api 2014-06-01 14:08 you bet it doesn't 2014-06-01 14:09 it's used by webapps to pretend to navigate to another page but actually just update the relevant parts via js 2014-06-01 14:09 works especially great on slow mobile links 2014-06-01 14:10 (I mean, no sarcasm; it's genuinely a nice solution) 2014-06-01 14:10 anyway, hasn't Neo900 UG a representative prestigious address? ;-) 2014-06-01 14:10 do you ask me?.. 2014-06-01 14:11 a 150 year old little house with a roof that almost collapses 2014-06-01 14:12 not easy to find houses of that age in Nuernberg ;-) 2014-06-01 14:13 * whitequark nods 2014-06-01 14:14 on average, they're older ? :) 2014-06-01 14:15 iirc, nuernberg was so heavily bombed in wwii that the whole city was basically destroyed, and promptly rebuilt from scratch 2014-06-01 14:15 http://wstaw.org/m/2014/06/01/plasma-desktopkQ1787.png 2014-06-01 14:16 ah well, minor needed some minor repairs then 2014-06-01 14:16 amazingly they decided to rebuilt everything so it now looks like nothing happened, at least in the ancient city center 2014-06-01 14:17 grmbl. reordering sentences is tricky 2014-06-01 14:17 https://www.google.com/images?q=neurnberg+2.+weltkrieg+zerstoerungen 2014-06-01 14:19 wikipedi to the rescue \o/ http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luftangriffe_auf_Nürnberg 2014-06-01 14:31 not even in FF the URL changes when changing view direction and/or position in streetview 2014-06-01 14:32 recent ff? 2014-06-01 14:32 for me the last two fields change: 2014-06-01 14:32 https://www.google.com/maps/place/Рождественская+ул.,+23%2F33/@55.705746,37.921852,3a,75y,335.01h,91.23t 2014-06-01 14:32 → 335.01h,91.23t 2014-06-01 14:33 doesn't seem like there's an explicit "copy url" button anywhere... 2014-06-01 14:34 flash 2014-06-01 14:34 flash? 2014-06-01 14:35 there's no flash in streetview anywhere 2014-06-01 14:35 uhuh 2014-06-01 14:36 seriously. I don't even have the plugin loaded at all right now 2014-06-01 14:36 maybe google serves different streetview to EU for some obscure reason? 2014-06-01 14:37 RMB gives me "About Adobe Flash Player 11.2.202.359.." etc 2014-06-01 14:37 actually, seems like they do; if I go through your link, it loads flash and the URL doesn't change 2014-06-01 14:38 PITA 2014-06-01 14:38 yep, if I go through google.de that happens 2014-06-01 14:38 wtf 2014-06-01 14:39 google may be doing flash and HTML5, like in youtube 2014-06-01 14:39 DocScrutinizer05: oh, gotcha 2014-06-01 14:39 you need to opt-in to "new maps" to get an interface without flash crap 2014-06-01 14:39 via https://maps.google.de/maps/tt/optin?status=invite 2014-06-01 14:39 apparently it's specific for each of google TLDs for some idiotic reason 2014-06-01 14:41 and prolly only available when you register, eh? 2014-06-01 14:41 DocScrutinizer05: no idea, does it ask you? 2014-06-01 14:43 no, but despite it now seems to not have adobe, it still doesn't change URL, neither in Konqui nor FF 2014-06-01 14:44 how does the url look? 2014-06-01 14:45 wow, does THIS work for you? https://maps.google.de/maps?q=49.448802,11.055081&hl=en&ll=49.448054,11.056387&spn=0.011342,0.033023&sll=48.917413,11.407993&sspn=5.870185,16.907959&t=m&z=16&layer=c&cbll=49.448148,11.056466&panoid=7BXu-uFcBBuuN_URrf68zA&cbp=12,311.29,,0,-0.35 2014-06-01 14:46 I'm looking at a tree 2014-06-01 14:46 with a person underneath 2014-06-01 14:46 I'm almost looking at same tree when looking outa my kitchen window 2014-06-01 14:47 mm, nice place 2014-06-01 14:47 actually my house is 50m down the pedestrian way you see the entrence to it in background 2014-06-01 14:47 is it quiet? 2014-06-01 14:48 how often do your neighbours spend entire weeks trying to perforate their concrete walls with some seriously underpowered tools? 2014-06-01 14:49 https://maps.google.de/maps?q=49.448802,11.055081&hl=en&ll=49.448601,11.05476&spn=0.001425,0.004128&sll=48.917413,11.407993&sspn=5.870185,16.907959&t=m&layer=c&cbll=49.448601,11.05476&panoid=-ft7e426ltVSBRItVo1UiA&cbp=12,0,,0,0&z=19 2014-06-01 14:49 seems to be a national sport here. in *every*single*place* I've been there's always some perforation enthusiast 2014-06-01 14:49 never 2014-06-01 14:49 I'm sold 2014-06-01 14:49 you have no idea how "enjoyable" is it to be regularly awaken by the sound of a crappy drill gnawing some concrete right above your heat 2014-06-01 14:49 head* 2014-06-01 14:50 https://maps.google.de/maps?q=49.448802,11.055081&hl=en&ll=49.448869,11.05482&spn=0.001418,0.004128&sll=48.917413,11.407993&sspn=5.870185,16.907959&t=m&layer=c&cbll=49.448869,11.05482&panoid=QaQQX8DngVKEEA1TUaCk6Q&cbp=12,86.71,,0,10.04&z=19 is the end of the 50m pedestrian way 2014-06-01 14:51 BerryHalsak has joined #qi-hardware 2014-06-01 14:51 I guess there's few concrete in my house and the next ones ;-) 2014-06-01 14:51 right 2014-06-01 14:51 you rather can drill holes with a pencil XD 2014-06-01 14:52 btw: I see no air conditioning external modules 2014-06-01 14:52 do none of the houses have A/C or is it just cleverly hidden? 2014-06-01 14:52 AC is pretty uncommon here 2014-06-01 14:52 I see 2014-06-01 14:53 office buildings tend to have those lately 2014-06-01 14:53 basically _no_ non-commercial flat or building has any AC 2014-06-01 14:53 we rather need heating here 2014-06-01 14:54 A/C is an effective heating solution 2014-06-01 14:54 for instance this unit I have, which has less than 1kW of power, heats my apartment *way* better than a 3kW electrical heater 2014-06-01 14:54 for the maybe 10 days per year when it's >25 centigrade outside, we keep the windows closed and enjoy the climating properties of our thick walls 2014-06-01 14:55 sure, but a 3kW gas heating is way cheaper than a 1kW AC here 2014-06-01 14:55 while it is supposedly only to be used in temperatures over -15°C, I've successfully used it throughout the entire winter, including in -25°C 2014-06-01 14:55 both purchase and operating 2014-06-01 14:55 and it still was quite efficient at cooling the outside air to something even colder 2014-06-01 14:55 electrical energy is incredibly "expensive" 2014-06-01 14:55 (the fact that I never turned it off might have actually saved it) 2014-06-01 14:56 hm, I see 2014-06-01 14:56 (10 days per year; climating properties of walls) both make sense and both great 2014-06-01 14:56 we pay ~25ct/kWh 2014-06-01 14:57 so this would be ~3EUR/d for your AC 2014-06-01 14:57 eh, it shouldn't work at maximum power most of the time 2014-06-01 14:57 I don't think it would or should normally eat even 100W 2014-06-01 14:58 sure, I already assumed a 50% duty cycle 2014-06-01 14:58 hm... I pay 6.6ct/kWh peak and 1.7ct/kWh off-peak 2014-06-01 14:58 quite a difference indeed 2014-06-01 14:58 24h * 1kW * 0.25EUR/kWh 2014-06-01 14:59 1.7ct/kWh was a reason for our *industry* to completely move to your place, unless there was other obstacles 2014-06-01 15:00 it's insane 2014-06-01 15:00 here 2014-06-01 15:00 but we want it that way 2014-06-01 15:00 no more nuklear power plans etc 2014-06-01 15:00 plants* 2014-06-01 15:00 * whitequark wouldn't really mind a nuclear plant operating right under his ass 2014-06-01 15:01 ... if not built by russians, of course 2014-06-01 15:01 right, you got no "Asse" next to you 2014-06-01 15:01 we're thoroughly fed up with that shit here 2014-06-01 15:02 http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schachtanlage_Asse 2014-06-01 15:03 and you know why? because "conventional" reactors are designed for producing weapons-grade plutonium rather than energy, in the first place 2014-06-01 15:03 there *are* designs which are safer, cheaper and produce much less waste, or in fact can use waste from our current reactors, if you want then 2014-06-01 15:04 e.g. LFTR. it has some problems, but the biggest of them is regulatory dickheads 2014-06-01 15:04 we know *our* engineers and they sound damn alike the japanese ones 2014-06-01 15:04 okay, well, now that's a reason 2014-06-01 15:04 Fuku finally changed the game, after your chernobyl already did some years ago 2014-06-01 15:05 Fukushima has so much useless scaremongering, it's not even funny 2014-06-01 15:05 people hear "nuclear" and piss their pants. do you know why MRI is called "MR"I rather than "NMR"I, which would be correct, given the physical effect? 2014-06-01 15:06 it shows we're constantly getting lied about such stuff 2014-06-01 15:06 that's a reason to push for better transparency in the industry 2014-06-01 15:06 I wonder when EU will say "oh, NSA spies on us in the internet, let's shut down the internet" 2014-06-01 15:06 good idea by this logic 2014-06-01 15:07 all histroy shows evidence that control of industry doesn't work 2014-06-01 15:07 there's plenty of industries which have been regulated and as result we're much safer. no reason nuclear can't be same. 2014-06-01 15:08 one reason: it been like this for several decades now 2014-06-01 15:08 you know, it's basically like planes and cars 2014-06-01 15:08 and still we see same shit happen 2014-06-01 15:08 a plane crashes, it's all over the news, and people everywhere shit themselves 2014-06-01 15:08 whereas cars kill thousands of people daily and no one gives a fuck 2014-06-01 15:08 no, planes and cars can get smashed in a second and you simply forget about them 2014-06-01 15:09 cars : planes = coal : nuclear 2014-06-01 15:09 fucking nuclear wase and pollution stays for millions of years 2014-06-01 15:09 I've already said, there are better ways to dispose of even current waste rather than simply burying it 2014-06-01 15:10 we want none of them 2014-06-01 15:10 if you don't want to produce weapons Pu that is 2014-06-01 15:10 we don't see why we need nuklear shit 2014-06-01 15:10 high EROEI? 2014-06-01 15:10 it's more expensive and much more dangerous than any other means to produce energy 2014-06-01 15:11 TCO 2014-06-01 15:11 (more dangerous) mainly in politicians minds and popular agenda 2014-06-01 15:11 our energy providers now try to "sell" the nuklear waste problem to government, by offering a 30 billion EUR to get rid of it 2014-06-01 15:12 I honestly hope they won't get away with it 2014-06-01 15:12 http://xkcd.com/1162/ 2014-06-01 15:14 30E9 EUR 2014-06-01 15:14 estimated final cost to deal with that shit: magnitudes higher 2014-06-01 15:15 sounds high until you compare it with the cost of getting the same amount of energy in other ways 2014-06-01 15:15 then it doesn't sound so high 2014-06-01 15:15 yeah, nuclear power isn't so bad. wouldn't want to have a plant right next door, in case something goes wrong, but in a sufficiently remote area, why not. the biggest problem with that it that remote areas tend not to have rivers, and as far a i know, all the fission reactor designs still need that. 2014-06-01 15:15 and that dosn't take into account the billions they already received on subsidies 2014-06-01 15:16 wpwrak: I would absolutely have any modern design plant right next to me. 2014-06-01 15:16 I don't give a shit about plants. We simply don't need that money sink anymore 2014-06-01 15:16 sure, RBMK is horrible, but no one forces you to use RBMK! 2014-06-01 15:17 it's *evidently* more expensive than anything else, in TCO 2014-06-01 15:17 I grant DocScrutinizer05 that fukushima handling is full of lies, but the actual damage is negligible compared to what a coal station does while operating a few days 2014-06-01 15:17 and I do compare apples to apples, you release nuclear shit while burning coal 2014-06-01 15:17 I also don't give a shit about Fuku 2014-06-01 15:18 we also do no coal stations anew here 2014-06-01 15:18 we get solar power and windparks 2014-06-01 15:18 and hydro 2014-06-01 15:18 and what's EROEI on solar? and what if you now include the degrading panels? 2014-06-01 15:18 and geothermics 2014-06-01 15:18 hydro is great, but it tends to destroy huge surface 2014-06-01 15:18 toldya we want it that way 2014-06-01 15:19 we got fed up with that shit 2014-06-01 15:19 human hibris 2014-06-01 15:19 of engineers 2014-06-01 15:19 ansd scientists 2014-06-01 15:19 as if a dam can't lead to a catastrophe ;) 2014-06-01 15:20 sure it can 2014-06-01 15:20 so what? 2014-06-01 15:20 * whitequark shrugs 2014-06-01 15:20 at least it's quick ;-) 2014-06-01 15:20 the economic argument is sound. the rest is meh 2014-06-01 15:21 do you think it's fair to tell your children "you not only pay more than you earn to pay my rent now, you please also take care of that pile of green glowing shit over there!" ? 2014-06-01 15:22 and I will repeat again, that there are designs that do not require long storage of highly active waste 2014-06-01 15:22 they'll grow up with it. they won't even think it's unusual :) 2014-06-01 15:22 whitequark: repeat that as long as you like. I don't see it anywhere in RL 2014-06-01 15:23 you mean in production installs? because of people like you who prevent usage or even proper certification of anything more recent than shitty 50 year old, almost cold war era designs 2014-06-01 15:23 (fukup) and let's not forget that japan has some bad memories about nuclear "incidents" 2014-06-01 15:24 even tokamak might be a pipe dream when you count in the contamination of the containment 2014-06-01 15:24 * wpwrak gets the popcorn 2014-06-01 15:24 wpwrak: I thought it would be a factor, but then I looked closer and apparently japanese have more sense in these questions 2014-06-01 15:24 people like me? you're getting personal and mad 2014-06-01 15:25 it's more a statement of fact, there are groups of people who blindly oppose even any research into better designs, and that is silly 2014-06-01 15:25 btw, japanese already cancelled the program that would involve shutting down all of the reactors. at least once, sanity prevailed 2014-06-01 15:26 no, it's pretty reasonable, given we decided we don't ned that shit 2014-06-01 15:26 "we decided we don't need that shit because it's dirty, and it's dirty because we decided we don't need that shit" 2014-06-01 15:26 and we're not willing to allow "people like you" another decade in their sandbox 2014-06-01 15:26 absurd argument 2014-06-01 15:27 or two, or three 2014-06-01 15:27 yeah, better buy tons of inefficient solar panels, with incredibly dirty production process 2014-06-01 15:27 with another few chernobyls and fukus 2014-06-01 15:27 and the pile of waste growing 2014-06-01 15:27 but who cares, if it's just some river in china that gets poisoned 2014-06-01 15:27 i guess it'll go like this: the germans will put lots of solar panels on their roofs, produced in countries where nobody makes a lot of noise about the production overhead. then they install wind parks. and if all that still isn't enough, then the rest will be provided through the european interconnect 2014-06-01 15:28 in other news, france adds some new reactors ... ;-) 2014-06-01 15:28 wpwrak: your guess is uneducated 2014-06-01 15:28 DocScrutinizer05: that argument too is absurd. no sane person would deploy RBMK today or even 50yrs ago 2014-06-01 15:28 and soviets were evidently insane for actually deploying it. nothing you could do about that, too. 2014-06-01 15:29 eh? 2014-06-01 15:29 "hey, let's install a reactor that we know fails unsafely" "sounds like a perfect idea" ← how Chernobyl happened 2014-06-01 15:29 so what? how fuku happened? 2014-06-01 15:30 DocScrutinizer05: yeah, i actually don't know if they'll add them in france. maybe it'll be ukraine :) 2014-06-01 15:30 wasn't fuku "absolutely safe" design based on GeneralElectrics? 2014-06-01 15:30 perfectly safe, in the deserts where GE tested it ;-) 2014-06-01 15:30 wpwrak: you're talking random gibberish to me 2014-06-01 15:30 fuku is *nowhere* near chernobyl. fuku was hit by an earthquake exceeding its planned limits by a factor of ten, and how much people got sick from radiation? 2014-06-01 15:30 I'll tell you, exactly zero 2014-06-01 15:31 suuuure 2014-06-01 15:31 you have data proving otherwise? 2014-06-01 15:32 and if you say "fallout", I say "look at that dozen of coal powered stations right next, which actually result in *more* nuclear fallout in a year than ten fukushimas" 2014-06-01 15:32 s,earthquake,tsunami, (though earthquake is the ultimate initial reason, still) 2014-06-01 15:32 I simply say we love our small country too much to have no-go areas in it that will stay for centuries 2014-06-01 15:33 and please don't tell me now "japanese are mad to create a no-go area around Fuku" 2014-06-01 15:34 whitequark: for cancer rates and such it's still a bit early. also chernobyl did "nothing" for several years. 2014-06-01 15:34 again, we don't need that shit, there i 2014-06-01 15:34 are better energy sorces all around 2014-06-01 15:35 wpwrak: sorry? chernobyl killed a lot of people rather immediately, the firefighting team 2014-06-01 15:35 then the fallout was *enormous* 2014-06-01 15:36 it's 2people like you" who rather want nuklear power than having proper research on those elternatives. Even when the research on alternatives evidently has ZILCH risk of any mega desasters like they happen all the time with nuklear 2014-06-01 15:36 DocScrutinizer05: there's no no-go zones around fukushima today 2014-06-01 15:36 at chernobyl people had very high exposure, but also in part due to what they did. the effects on the population at large too a long time to appear. 2014-06-01 15:37 all have been eliminated, in less than three years 2014-06-01 15:37 but sure, nuklear power so cooooool, there's sooo much energy on only ONE gram of matter 2014-06-01 15:37 so fukup isn't in the clear just yet. give it a few more years, then we'll see 2014-06-01 15:37 DocScrutinizer05: zilch risk of mega disasters? I don't care whether we have mega-disasters, I care about compound health effects 2014-06-01 15:37 and for solar panels it is very far from zero, for example 2014-06-01 15:37 and don't forget that they degrade in 2-3 decades too. 2014-06-01 15:37 I' quitting this futile discussion now, have fun! 2014-06-01 15:38 don't like being presented with facts, I see ;) 2014-06-01 15:38 wpwrak: there's some fascinating effects at work for that 2014-06-01 15:39 for example, mortality in chernobyl victims is actually *lower* than in general population, despite an increase in cancers, because they're (and other problems) are detected and fixed much earlier 2014-06-01 15:39 hehe ;-) 2014-06-01 15:39 yes, if general health care is weak or just doesn't spot such things, then you're indeed better off in a high-risk group :) 2014-06-01 15:40 acting like a moron doesn't help your point 2014-06-01 15:40 not even with a ;) 2014-06-01 15:40 but then, you'd be even better off if you got the improved screening without the exposure. so that's not a very good argument :) 2014-06-01 15:40 so much for not getting personal *shrug* 2014-06-01 15:41 wpwrak: I never said it was a good argument, just a fascinating tidbit 2014-06-01 15:41 counter-intuitive 2014-06-01 15:42 (better screening) that actually doesn't always help 2014-06-01 15:42 e.g. take testicular cancer (I think it was this kind?). it's currently recommended to NOT screen for it, because the invasive procedures related to false positive, statistically, result in a net negative 2014-06-01 15:42 i mean as in examination, not as in absorbing 2014-06-01 15:42 ah, you mean the same :) 2014-06-01 15:43 yeah 2014-06-01 15:43 ah yes. only screen for something you can actually cure ;-) 2014-06-01 15:43 well, we *can* cure it, it's just that diagnostic procedures are so bad 2014-06-01 15:44 how do you cure imaginary testicular cancer ? :) 2014-06-01 15:44 so bad that you're better off waiting until the cancer manifests itself in some more visible way 2014-06-01 15:44 oh, that's what you mean 2014-06-01 15:44 it works both ways ;-) 2014-06-01 15:44 I guess... by ignoring it? 2014-06-01 15:44 yeah. of make better diagnostics 2014-06-01 15:45 #s/of/or/ 2014-06-01 15:45 yeah, we don't really have a good way of diagnosing quite a few of cancers without sticking a huge needle in your body 2014-06-01 15:45 and even when we have, it's nasty 2014-06-01 15:46 being too eager on mammograms would actually *cause* more cancers, since it's x-ray 2014-06-01 15:46 sorry I have to state that attributing moronic behavior to a caliming of quoting all kind of random shit as presenting facts, and then ignoring the sound arguments why those are useless even when they were facts since our people decided differntly and our evaluation shows it *is* mor expensive than anything else in toltal cost of ownership, whell that's not 'personal', that's observation of facts 2014-06-01 15:46 claiming* 2014-06-01 15:46 * whitequark sighs 2014-06-01 15:47 anyway leaving now, not because I don't like to get "confronted to your facts" but just because the discussion evidently is futile and particularly boring 2014-06-01 15:47 same 2014-06-01 15:47 been there a zillion times 2014-06-01 15:48 I should rather finish my water-chip-cleaning thing and show you the final CNC setup 2014-06-01 15:48 much more useful 2014-06-01 15:50 * wpwrak wonders how long until all the water exposure will do some damage 2014-06-01 15:51 damage to... what? 2014-06-01 15:52 or do you mean the lethal dose of dihydrogen monoxide I have in this 5L tank? 2014-06-01 15:52 there ought to be some iron parts that get wet 2014-06-01 15:52 yeah, a few screws 2014-06-01 15:53 I ought to replace them, but by the point where I discovered that someone was too greedy to even use non-rusting screws they no longer screw out 2014-06-01 15:54 and i'd be more worried about the hydroxic acid 2014-06-01 15:54 especially when it comes in contact with the alkaline hydrogen hydroxide 2014-06-01 15:55 ... therefore doubling the damage that the mixture will inflict! 2014-06-01 15:55 at least ! and the stuff dissolves readily in water, so it can get everywhere 2014-06-01 15:56 hahahahaha 2014-06-01 15:56 (rusty screws) oh, that was quick 2014-06-01 15:56 well, it's also possible they're just screwed in really hard 2014-06-01 15:56 some others surely are 2014-06-01 15:58 you definitely need immediate measures to protect and recover stuff. otherwise not only the screws but also the Al will get irrecoverably damaged 2014-06-01 15:58 DocScrutinizer05: hm, Al? how so? 2014-06-01 15:58 Al and steel form a battery 2014-06-01 15:58 ooooooh 2014-06-01 15:58 oh fuck 2014-06-01 15:59 a galvanic pair 2014-06-01 15:59 BerryHalsak has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 2014-06-01 15:59 you're 100% correct 2014-06-01 16:01 and aiui or rather *I guess* that rust does damage to the protective AlOxide coating, so your Al will dessolave like in sea water 2014-06-01 16:01 DocScrutinizer05: wait, that doesn't make sense 2014-06-01 16:01 if they actually did, Al would dissolve instead of Fe, because Al is much more active 2014-06-01 16:01 yes 2014-06-01 16:01 like you put more active Zn to prevent Fe ship hull from rusting 2014-06-01 16:01 but Fe is rusting in my case, so there's no galvanic pair 2014-06-01 16:02 (for now) 2014-06-01 16:02 I wonder why 2014-06-01 16:02 the Fe rusting is not caused by galvanic process 2014-06-01 16:02 galvanic process would cause Fe to *not* rust 2014-06-01 16:02 and evidently it does not 2014-06-01 16:02 but the rust expands (volume) and crashes the AlOx 2014-06-01 16:02 hmm 2014-06-01 16:02 yes, that could happen 2014-06-01 16:03 well anyway, you're right in that I have to replace the screws. I was rather wondering why I nevertheless have rust 2014-06-01 16:03 and rusty steel in an al thread will *never* come out again 2014-06-01 16:04 it comes out only with the al attached to the screw 2014-06-01 16:04 if at all 2014-06-01 16:05 so I won't already be able to screw them out? dang 2014-06-01 16:05 odds are it's already too late, yes 2014-06-01 16:05 anyway use alkaline solvent to oint 2014-06-01 16:06 the usuall phosphoric acid to fix rust issues won't do good here 2014-06-01 16:06 alkaline solvent would dissolve AlOx as well as FeOx 2014-06-01 16:06 alkaline shouldn't hurt Al much 2014-06-01 16:08