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2014-05-24 10:44 <whitequark> cool hack: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/23758875/capture-image-via-capturestillimageasynchronouslyfromconnection-with-no-shutter
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2014-05-24 12:21 <DocScrutinizer05> just about the signature, in http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1426293&postcount=81  >>"Those who do not understand Unix are condemned to reinvent it, poorly." - Henry Spencer<<  and the link in it --  awesome!! :-D
2014-05-24 12:32 <DocScrutinizer05> https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Kay_Sievers&direction=prev&oldid=602757571  LOL
2014-05-24 12:33 <DocScrutinizer05> http://lkml.iu.edu/hypermail/linux/kernel/1404.0/01331.html
2014-05-24 12:36 <DocScrutinizer05> HAIL Linus!!!!
2014-05-24 12:37 <DocScrutinizer05> (sorry for this being a rather bad term in German, I'm not tainted by that bad history of it)
2014-05-24 12:37 <pcercuei> that's not a bad term
2014-05-24 12:38 <DocScrutinizer05> yeah I know, the spelling is "Heil"
2014-05-24 12:38 <DocScrutinizer05> anyway I rather make that clear immediately that it's not "Heil" but hail
2014-05-24 12:39 <DocScrutinizer05> I only wish he also had mentioned Poettering in very same mail
2014-05-24 12:40 <DocScrutinizer05> I guess I now have to send a crate of good bavarian beer, or a bottle of old Scotch, or whatever to Linus. He earned it since long, and now for sure
2014-05-24 12:43 <DocScrutinizer05> I hope for GKH educating those 2 guys for good, giving them a proper shouting
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2014-05-24 12:44 <DocScrutinizer05> ~freee
2014-05-24 12:44 <infobot> freee is probably http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=ZTdUmlGxVo0&t=3296
2014-05-24 12:44 <DocScrutinizer05> ~poettering
2014-05-24 12:44 <infobot> 'sth is poettering' means it acts invasive, possessive, destructive, and generally in an egocentric exacerbating negative way. ``this cancer is extremely poettering''
2014-05-24 12:44 <DocScrutinizer05> ~part
2014-05-24 12:45 <DocScrutinizer05> ~part #qi-hardware
2014-05-24 12:45 <infobot> Leaving. (courtesy of docscrutinizer05).
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2014-05-24 12:46 <DocScrutinizer05> note who created https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Kay_Sievers
2014-05-24 12:47 <DocScrutinizer05> https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Kay_Sievers&action=history
2014-05-24 12:51 <sb0_> now is a good time to bring up the topic of electric charge again
2014-05-24 12:51 <DocScrutinizer05> why? do you feel you're charged too much, or inb need of charging?
2014-05-24 12:53 <DocScrutinizer05> and what charge are you referring to? the charge of a battery, a capacitor, or the electron charge of an object in empty space?
2014-05-24 12:54 <DocScrutinizer05> or do you refer to a special method to do financial transactions to accounts in fiscal domain?
2014-05-24 12:55 <DocScrutinizer05> oh, that would probably be "electronic charge"
2014-05-24 12:56 <DocScrutinizer05> or maybe that's a particularly cruel new punishment?
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2014-05-24 12:58 <DocScrutinizer05> ~dict charge
2014-05-24 12:58 <infobot> Dictionary 'charge' (2 of 46): (criminal law) a pleading describing some wrong or offense; "he was arrested on a charge of larceny"  ;; 2. That particular kind of commission which one undertakes to perform.
2014-05-24 12:58 <DocScrutinizer05> ~part #qi-hardware
2014-05-24 12:58 <infobot> Leaving. (courtesy of docscrutinizer05).
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2014-05-24 13:15 <DocScrutinizer05> https://www.change.org/petitions/lennart-poettering-stop-writing-useless-programs-systemd-journal
2014-05-24 13:16 <DocScrutinizer05> #4 Wolfgang Draxinger  hits the nail on the head
2014-05-24 13:18 <pcercuei> from Munich, Germany
2014-05-24 13:18 <DocScrutinizer05> I really wonder what strange nature of mind Lennart must have to ignore and seemingly even enjoy all the flaming and shrug away all the highly qualified on-topic criticism
2014-05-24 13:18 <DocScrutinizer05> pcercuei: so what?
2014-05-24 13:18 <pcercuei> that's my city
2014-05-24 13:18 <DocScrutinizer05> aaah
2014-05-24 13:18 <pcercuei> is all I'm sayin
2014-05-24 13:21 <DocScrutinizer05> one of the foundation rules of unix been "no binary config/log/whatever files. Everything is plain human readable asci. A computer more easily parses plaintext than a human parses binary"
2014-05-24 13:22 <pcercuei> binary logs are a thing?
2014-05-24 13:23 <DocScrutinizer05> another paradigm been: "every tool does just one thing, and it does that one thing proper and in a way so it can get combined with other tools"
2014-05-24 13:23 <dos1> systemd-journal uses binary logs
2014-05-24 13:23 <DocScrutinizer05> see "unix toolbox"
2014-05-24 13:23 <dos1> for instance
2014-05-24 13:23 <pcercuei> ouch... I didn't know that
2014-05-24 13:24 <dos1> I like some of systemd's ideas, but that one for sure is completely retarded
2014-05-24 13:24 <pcercuei> yes
2014-05-24 13:25 <pcercuei> but is systemd a huge blob, or rather modular?
2014-05-24 13:25 <DocScrutinizer05> just to have some fun, do `systemctl --help`. On my system it invokes $PAGER !!!
2014-05-24 13:26 <DocScrutinizer05> If I want to have that shit in $PAGER, I use `man systemctl`
2014-05-24 13:26 <DocScrutinizer05> --help is explicitly NOT meant to invoke interactive pager or whatever
2014-05-24 13:26 <DocScrutinizer05> --interactive
2014-05-24 13:27 <DocScrutinizer05> and then "?" - that could do $PAGER alike display of embedded help
2014-05-24 13:28 <DocScrutinizer05> outright nuking /usr concept is another example why poettering is a jackass
2014-05-24 13:30 <DocScrutinizer05> /usr is from a time when computers had small storage, like 10MB HDD, and you were happy to have everything that's not needed for boot on a separate volume. Poettering shrugs that away and says it's "not modern anymore [SIC!]", completely failing to realize that embedded more and more becomes a mere linux domain and there we NEED that concept again
2014-05-24 13:32 <DocScrutinizer05> poettering is doing a sneaky fork to linux
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2014-05-24 13:34 <DocScrutinizer05> into poettering flavor that comes with all sorts of abominations that speed up boot by 20% or allow inuktitut text2speech in login screen, but sacrifice all compatibility of system to anything not ISA, and a pure linux flavor that goes untainted by poettering & friends and slowly bitrots
2014-05-24 13:37 <DocScrutinizer05> and he blackmails all community to go his way and fix all their apps to work with his crappy new stuff
2014-05-24 13:39 <DocScrutinizer05> you know, a 15 years ago you basically could port arbitrary linux programs to AIX, SunOS, HPUX, whatever you like, simply by recompiling them. Nowadays you can't port a poettering-linux app to a non-poettering linux system
2014-05-24 13:40 <DocScrutinizer05> but again, Mr Poettering despises Unix compatibility considerations, he thinks "that's not mature"
2014-05-24 13:40 <dos1> ^^^ that's why I'm sad with Debian choosing systemd as default in jessie :(
2014-05-24 13:41 <dos1> despite of ther fact I'm using it on my Debian already
2014-05-24 13:42 <dos1> s/ther fact/the fact that/
2014-05-24 13:42 <qi-bot> dos1 meant: "despite of the fact that I'm using it on my Debian already"
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2014-05-24 13:43 <DocScrutinizer05> I wish M$ was a soviet company, then the NSA already had kidnapped Mr Poettering, transported him to some Albanian prison and tortured him to disclose how much M$ is paying him for sabotaging linux
2014-05-24 13:44 <DocScrutinizer05> or s/NSA/<whatever TLA agency you like>/
2014-05-24 13:44 <DocScrutinizer05> CIA, DOD
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2014-05-24 13:49 <dos1> completely random OT thought: I just realized why english W is pronounced as it is
2014-05-24 13:49 <dos1> never thought about it as "double u"... it was just a not explained "dablyoo" for me for whole my life
2014-05-24 13:50 <dos1> mind blown... sorry, had to share that discovery somewhere :D
2014-05-24 13:52 <DocScrutinizer05> BWAAAHAAAARRHARRRRRHAAAAAHAAAHARRRRR! https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=74589#c4
2014-05-24 13:52 <dos1> and I came to it thanks to "In English, WWW is the longest possible TLA to pronounce, typically requiring nine syllables." - I started to wonder why for me it seemed more like six syllables ;)
2014-05-24 13:53 <DocScrutinizer05> george double-who bush? ;-)
2014-05-24 13:55 <dos1> :D
2014-05-24 14:22 <DocScrutinizer05> >>Everything about systemd development is centered around the desktop - like windows. They want to change a scripted startup system that is easy to understand and play with, to an all binary obfuscated design - like windows. In every aspect they want Linux to be more like windows.
2014-05-24 14:22 <DocScrutinizer05> Damn, if I want windows then Windows is what I will use!!<<  (https://www.change.org/petitions/lennart-poettering-stop-writing-useless-programs-systemd-journal  Joost Ruijsch WAGENINGEN, NETHERLANDS
2014-05-24 14:34 * wpwrak basks in the warmth of a nice little flame way ;-)
2014-05-24 14:35 <DocScrutinizer05> war?
2014-05-24 14:37 <wpwrak> err yes
2014-05-24 14:37 <wpwrak> it's still pre-coffee time here
2014-05-24 14:38 <DocScrutinizer05> for a flame war somebody had to oppose, ideally Poettering and Sievers themselves
2014-05-24 14:38 <DocScrutinizer05> oooh, coffee, an *excellent* idea
2014-05-24 14:40 <wpwrak> (oppose) yeah, it was a little one-sided. of course, that's how many wars begin ...
2014-05-24 14:41 <DocScrutinizer05> on a linked but unrelated topic: can somebody with a little knowledge about HTML and browsers offer a mini lessen to me on "how to reference to a particular position in a page", e.g. like in https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=74589#c4. I'd like to reference to where the string/href "/u/9779450" shows up, in https://www.change.org/petitions/lennart-poettering-stop-writing-useless-programs-systemd-journal. Is this even
2014-05-24 14:41 <DocScrutinizer05> possible?
2014-05-24 14:42 <DocScrutinizer05> on rendered text of that page, this would be searchstring "Horst Burkhardt"
2014-05-24 14:44 <DocScrutinizer05> I see, that website is pretty messed up, in that it needs "more comments" which is a link to https://www.change.org/petitions/lennart-poettering-stop-writing-useless-programs-systemd-journal/opinions?page=9&role=comments&scope=popular for example, but results in yet another same "root" URL getting loaded, but with more context
2014-05-24 14:45 <nicksydney> video showing glass + digitizer assembled together in a factory https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CfuTVjI_Wao .. interesting
2014-05-24 14:46 <DocScrutinizer05> digitizer?
2014-05-24 14:46 <DocScrutinizer05> ooh, not google glass
2014-05-24 14:49 <nicksydney> nah just the way they make it .. not google glass :)...may doc glass :
2014-05-24 14:49 <nicksydney> :)
2014-05-24 14:49 <nicksydney> uhh perhaps NeoGlass :)
2014-05-24 14:49 <dos1> gta04b8 is a "smartwatch" design experiment
2014-05-24 14:50 <DocScrutinizer05> err nope, on N900 the LCD and digitizer are two separate components not glued together in that way
2014-05-24 14:50 <dos1> gta04b9 - who knows, maybe "neoglass"? ;)
2014-05-24 14:50 <DocScrutinizer05> hehe
2014-05-24 14:51 <DocScrutinizer05> I for sure will discard the notorious GTA running gag eventually
2014-05-24 14:52 <nicksydney> DocScrutinizer05: can you show picture of how the LCD and digitizer are separate looks like ?
2014-05-24 14:52 <DocScrutinizer05> also the first numerical part is supposed to indicate model, then a major redesign level starting with "a", then "build"
2014-05-24 14:53 <DocScrutinizer05> nicksydney: search google for "Nokia N900 digitizer"
2014-05-24 14:54 <dos1> GDC uses a bit confusing nomenclature of "gta04bX" where X is a design variant (main, tablet, pda, neo900, watch...)
2014-05-24 14:55 <dos1> major revision is "gta04AX" but that seems to apply only to the "main" Freerunner-based design
2014-05-24 14:56 <dos1> and here it starts to get messy :)
2014-05-24 14:56 <DocScrutinizer05> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pDQ81cahD1c 3:30
2014-05-24 14:56 <DocScrutinizer05> is your audio also as funny as mine here?
2014-05-24 14:57 <dos1> yep
2014-05-24 14:57 <DocScrutinizer05> 5:10
2014-05-24 15:00 <DocScrutinizer05> I already clearly announced that the bare boards will be labeled "NeoN-board"
2014-05-24 15:02 <DocScrutinizer05> gta04 was already pretty ambiguous, since it collided with a preceding gta04 project that existed inside OM
2014-05-24 15:03 <dos1> yep, but I actually like using "gta04b7" in stuff like bootloader code or device tree files, where variants are detected in runtime
2014-05-24 15:03 <DocScrutinizer05> and since nobody knows *for sure* what's the meaning of "gta" in all Openmoko designs, I think we rather should get rid of it
2014-05-24 15:04 <dos1> btw (gta04 @ OM) it was supposed to be a minor revision of gta03, right?
2014-05-24 15:04 <DocScrutinizer05> well, ok, for those purposes a unique identifier is pretty useful, so I don't mind if it's gta04b7 or gdc4jr1 or whatever
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2014-05-24 15:07 <DocScrutinizer05> no, gta04 been the initial name of gta03 project, before it got redesigned using a different CPU than originally planned. Then Sean and Wolfgang started a "skunkwork" project of me specifying and designing a device to get build "outsourced" of FIC factory and OM EE, and the GTA04 label got reused for that
2014-05-24 15:07 <nicksydney> DocScrutinizer05: (youtube) yeah the audio is fast forward
2014-05-24 15:07 <DocScrutinizer05> this GTA04 been meant to not base on *any* gta03 work, _except_ case
2014-05-24 15:09 <DocScrutinizer05> http://people.openmoko.org/joerg/unsorted/gta04.pdf
2014-05-24 15:09 <dos1> aah, that second gta04 being the same as in those your PDF?
2014-05-24 15:09 <dos1> hehe :D
2014-05-24 15:10 <dos1> (before it got redesigned using a different CPU than originally planned) so there was some other gta03 as well before the redesign?
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2014-05-24 15:15 <DocScrutinizer05> yes, we had some gta03, gta04, gta05 06 07
2014-05-24 15:16 <DocScrutinizer05> can't recall what gta03 originally been meant to be. Anyway gta03 iirc started as gta04 and then got relabeled to gta03
2014-05-24 15:17 <DocScrutinizer05> while original gta03 got discontinued
2014-05-24 15:17 <DocScrutinizer05> just like gta05 and 06 (07?)
2014-05-24 15:18 <DocScrutinizer05> OM planned for a "sissiphone" targeted at japanese young girls or sth like that. And a "bubblephone" whatever that meant to be
2014-05-24 15:19 <DocScrutinizer05> all that stuff always been pretty "sekrit" even inside OM
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2014-05-24 15:21 <DocScrutinizer05> so, if I managed to count then all, we had three gta04 prior to GDC's
2014-05-24 15:21 <DocScrutinizer05> them*
2014-05-24 15:23 <DocScrutinizer05> while it doesn't hurt to call the GDC device GTA04 (mark 4), it feels kinda odd to perpetuate that GTA moniker ad infinitum
2014-05-24 15:25 <dos1> :nod:
2014-05-24 15:28 <dos1> why the hell is bzip2 option of tar shortened to "j"?
2014-05-24 15:30 <DocScrutinizer05> only unassigned char left over?
2014-05-24 15:32 <DocScrutinizer05> btw you know about GTA03 actually had a completely different nickname eventually, in the end? Sth like r7dk4
2014-05-24 15:32 <dos1> yep, om-3d7k
2014-05-24 15:33 <dos1> its board definition went to openembedded with this name
2014-05-24 15:33 <DocScrutinizer05> :nod:
2014-05-24 15:35 <DocScrutinizer05> thus... gta04b7 sounds a bit odd for a device that's not at all similar to gta02 or even gta03 (aka om-3d7k, and much more similar to gta02 than the GDC device or Neo900)
2014-05-24 15:36 <DocScrutinizer05> I wonder what we gonna do for 2nd revision of gta04b7. gta04b7-2 then?
2014-05-24 15:36 <DocScrutinizer05> and how's that linked to the board ID?
2014-05-24 15:37 <DocScrutinizer05> hw wise
2014-05-24 15:37 <DocScrutinizer05> those 3 bits or whatever
2014-05-24 15:38 <DocScrutinizer05> we need to define a way how a system e.g. on uSD gets to know whether it's starting up on a GTA04 or a Neo900, and which board revision of either
2014-05-24 15:39 <DocScrutinizer05> N900 solved this by writing the board revision (aka hw revision) to CAL
2014-05-24 15:40 <dos1> it's already defined afaik
2014-05-24 15:40 <dos1> "official" gta04 images are already supposed to be able to be transfered between gta04 variants
2014-05-24 15:41 <DocScrutinizer05> sure, but Neo900 doesn't fit in there, it got way too many hw mods
2014-05-24 15:41 <DocScrutinizer05> it's _not_ "just another GTA04 board variant"
2014-05-24 15:41 <dos1> dunno about revisions, but SHR somehow determines if it's running on A3 or A4 to decide if it should use sw or hw audio routing
2014-05-24 15:41 <dos1> but I haven't checked yet how it does it
2014-05-24 15:43 <DocScrutinizer05> it's rather the problem that Neo900 and GTA04 are too similar to just ignore the fact that a system designed for the one could actually try to boot on the other
2014-05-24 15:44 <DocScrutinizer05> none of the GPIO and I2C addresses will match
2014-05-24 15:44 <DocScrutinizer05> audio will differ massively
2014-05-24 15:45 <DocScrutinizer05> hw kbd vs aux key
2014-05-24 15:45 <DocScrutinizer05> different power management
2014-05-24 15:47 <DocScrutinizer05> maybe different boot console
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2014-05-24 16:33 <wpwrak> make it a build- and install-time choice ? that way, you don't have to worry about bridging all the little incompatibilities
2014-05-24 16:35 <wpwrak> it's cute to have a kernel that runs on many different boxes, but then there's little real value beyond the cuteness
2014-05-24 18:37 DocScrutinizer05 is now known as neo900
2014-05-24 18:37 neo900 is now known as DocScrutinizer05
2014-05-24 18:39 <DocScrutinizer05> indeed
2014-05-24 18:39 <DocScrutinizer05> my words
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2014-05-24 18:40 <DocScrutinizer05> but when we assume the device can boot from uSD then we need some runtime checks to at least _stop_ booting to the wrong patform|OS combo
2014-05-24 18:41 <DocScrutinizer05> of course it would be even more cute to have same image boot on both platforms
2014-05-24 18:41 <DocScrutinizer05> at least when we installed all needed drivers etc for both platforms to the system
2014-05-24 18:41 <DocScrutinizer05> kernel shouldn't be the problem
2014-05-24 18:42 <DocScrutinizer05> sys and proc and dev prolly will be
2014-05-24 18:42 <DocScrutinizer05> well, maybe proc not that much
2014-05-24 18:43 <DocScrutinizer05> and then of course userland
2014-05-24 18:44 <DocScrutinizer05> there's a sh*tload of customizations to adapt for all sorts of differences, starts with modem already
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2014-05-24 19:16 <wpwrak> well,. if it would actually boot, then you can add something that stops it. but i mean, how many gta04 are out there anyway ?
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