2014-04-29 00:22 arielenter has joined #qi-hardware 2014-04-29 00:24 arielenter has quit [Client Quit] 2014-04-29 00:26 arielenter has joined #qi-hardware 2014-04-29 01:38 Codora has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 2014-04-29 01:43 Codora has joined #qi-hardware 2014-04-29 01:45 arielenter has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 2014-04-29 02:03 atommann has joined #qi-hardware 2014-04-29 02:41 arielenter has joined #qi-hardware 2014-04-29 03:02 arielenter has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 2014-04-29 03:03 arielenter has joined #qi-hardware 2014-04-29 03:03 arielenter has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 2014-04-29 03:03 arielenter has joined #qi-hardware 2014-04-29 03:03 arielenter has quit [Client Quit] 2014-04-29 03:04 arielenter has joined #qi-hardware 2014-04-29 03:05 arielenter1 has joined #qi-hardware 2014-04-29 03:05 arielenter1 has quit [Client Quit] 2014-04-29 03:05 arielenter1 has joined #qi-hardware 2014-04-29 03:05 arielenter1 has quit [Client Quit] 2014-04-29 03:06 arielenter1 has joined #qi-hardware 2014-04-29 03:06 arielenter1 has quit [Client Quit] 2014-04-29 03:06 arielenter1 has joined #qi-hardware 2014-04-29 03:06 arielenter1 has quit [Client Quit] 2014-04-29 03:07 arielenter1 has joined #qi-hardware 2014-04-29 03:07 arielenter1 has quit [Client Quit] 2014-04-29 03:07 arielenter1 has joined #qi-hardware 2014-04-29 03:08 arielenter1 has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 2014-04-29 03:08 arielenter has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 2014-04-29 07:04 jekhor has joined #qi-hardware 2014-04-29 07:23 pcercuei has joined #qi-hardware 2014-04-29 07:48 wolfspraul has joined #qi-hardware 2014-04-29 09:12 sb0 has joined #qi-hardware 2014-04-29 09:57 rz2k has joined #qi-hardware 2014-04-29 10:22 wej has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 2014-04-29 10:24 wej has joined #qi-hardware 2014-04-29 10:56 have you seen http://www.shodanhq.com/ ? 2014-04-29 11:03 hm... http://www.shodanhq.com/search?q=your+mom 2014-04-29 11:04 "Server: Microsoft-IIS/7.5l; X-Powered-By: Your Mom!" 2014-04-29 11:04 that seems to be a popular combo 2014-04-29 11:26 dos1 has joined #qi-hardware 2014-04-29 11:44 damn, I wonder if it is about time to change my config to run web browser in a chroot only 2014-04-29 11:47 best is probably to run in on a computer not connected to the internet 2014-04-29 11:47 DocScrutinizer05: you'll like http://goto.ucsd.edu/quark/ 2014-04-29 11:48 a web browser that is proven to never leak your private data to third parties 2014-04-29 11:48 (assuming there is no combination of webkit and kernel exploits that allow malicious code to escape sandbox, which is a pretty good assumption) 2014-04-29 11:52 Chromium and Firefox are starting to get there in term of sandboxing and security 2014-04-29 11:53 small steps by small steps 2014-04-29 11:53 "starting to get there"? 2014-04-29 11:53 Chrome pioneered the sandbox technique years ago 2014-04-29 11:53 getting there* ? 2014-04-29 11:53 yes 2014-04-29 11:53 it's starting to become nicely secured 2014-04-29 11:54 so I'm not sure running in a chroot will add much security , maybe not today but in the short term 2014-04-29 11:54 chromium already effectively runs every tab into chroot, or in fact in a better thing than chroot 2014-04-29 11:54 secconp 2014-04-29 11:54 *seccomp 2014-04-29 11:55 chromium is using seccomp, it filters 2014-04-29 11:55 syscalls 2014-04-29 11:55 yes 2014-04-29 11:55 you have read(), write(), exit() and some other one 2014-04-29 11:55 that is all 2014-04-29 11:55 indeed 2014-04-29 11:55 all you need ;) 2014-04-29 11:55 if their list of syscalls is correct then it's secured 2014-04-29 11:55 I bet they don't filter everything 2014-04-29 11:55 it's very hard to do so 2014-04-29 11:55 but it's getting there 2014-04-29 11:55 there have been breakouts from the sandbox in the past 2014-04-29 11:55 whitequark: looks good 2014-04-29 11:55 Mozilla is doing the exact same for B2G (boot2gecko, AKA firefox OS) 2014-04-29 11:56 and there probably will be breakouts from the sandbox in the future 2014-04-29 11:56 it's still better to have sandbox than not have one though 2014-04-29 11:56 the theory would be to only allow read/write/exit 2014-04-29 11:56 I bet they allow more 2014-04-29 11:56 s/have one/have none/ 2014-04-29 11:56 larsc meant: "it's still better to have sandbox than not have none though" 2014-04-29 11:56 ysionneau: they filter everything for browser tabs 2014-04-29 11:56 they use seccomp-bpf for flash 2014-04-29 11:56 even open? and mprotect? 2014-04-29 11:56 although that is somewhat of a futile endeavour 2014-04-29 11:56 sure 2014-04-29 11:56 why would a tab require open?! 2014-04-29 11:57 well it depends 2014-04-29 11:57 for instance on Android 2014-04-29 11:57 for the android app 2014-04-29 11:57 err not android app 2014-04-29 11:57 ah, the fourth one is sigreturn 2014-04-29 11:57 for the Chrome OS I mean 2014-04-29 11:57 ysionneau: it's not the tab that accesses the file 2014-04-29 11:57 I think we might realize not too far in the future that the micro-kernel folks were right 2014-04-29 11:57 whitequark: indeed the usual stuff is to make the parent process do the open() and send you the file descriptor via socket 2014-04-29 11:58 ysionneau: no recvmsg 2014-04-29 11:58 it would just transfer the data to the tab with a multiplexed channel, I guess. 2014-04-29 11:58 recvmsg on a socket 2014-04-29 11:58 to receive the file descriptor 2014-04-29 11:58 well actually you have several techniques for passing a file descriptor 2014-04-29 11:59 I mean, no recvmsg in seccomp 2014-04-29 11:59 ah ok 2014-04-29 11:59 https://code.google.com/p/seccompsandbox/wiki/overview 2014-04-29 11:59 13:56 < whitequark> they use seccomp-bpf for flash < so i guess they have a smaller list of forbidden syscalls for flash then 2014-04-29 11:59 yes 2014-04-29 11:59 It restricts a thread to a small number of system calls: 2014-04-29 11:59 exit() 2014-04-29 11:59 write() 2014-04-29 11:59 read() 2014-04-29 11:59 sigreturn() 2014-04-29 12:00 larsc: then you can use BPF, and you can use BPF to accept or refuse a syscall 2014-04-29 12:00 and have whitelist or blacklist 2014-04-29 12:00 you can then either kill the process , or trap in a handler 2014-04-29 12:00 anyway I think I'll just run browser under a dedicated user that has no access to *anything* outside of own $HOME 2014-04-29 12:01 whitequark: when your browser is not just a browser, but for instance an "OS" like firefox OS or Chrome OS 2014-04-29 12:01 then it's harder to just refuse everything except read/write/exit 2014-04-29 12:01 or even better: in a VM 2014-04-29 12:02 because of libhardware crap that want to open /dev/files to take wakelocks or to take locks on framebuffer etc 2014-04-29 12:02 it's usually hard to forbid open() 2014-04-29 12:02 or mprotect (for JS JIT) 2014-04-29 12:02 but they will find a way :) 2014-04-29 12:02 DocScrutinizer05: VMs can be exploited too 2014-04-29 12:03 ysionneau: well only a subset of the browser runs in the sandbox 2014-04-29 12:03 the 'content process' 2014-04-29 12:03 (mozilla term) 2014-04-29 12:03 you have a 'trusted' part, that you assume is bug free 2014-04-29 12:03 yes 2014-04-29 12:03 and which interacts less directly with the content 2014-04-29 12:03 (html/js/css) 2014-04-29 12:03 if the sandboxed thread can get the trusted thread to do stuff it shouldn't do you have broken out of the sandbox 2014-04-29 12:04 yep indeed 2014-04-29 12:04 it's still really not perfect yet 2014-04-29 12:04 but it's better and better :) 2014-04-29 12:05 and if I understand things correctly with that quark browser they verified that the trusted part is bug free 2014-04-29 12:05 frankly I think it's hard for hackers to exploits bugs in the browsers nowdays 2014-04-29 12:05 (assuming that their formal verification is bug free) 2014-04-29 12:05 which we probably shouldn't 2014-04-29 12:05 I'm really amazed each time I hear about a new 0day on a browser 2014-04-29 12:05 the guy who worked on it must be very clever 2014-04-29 12:06 larsc: formal verification *is* bug-free, that's the point of it 2014-04-29 12:07 whitequark: I think any usual exploit via browser will have a hard time to figure it's running in a VM and to breakout and taint my host system 2014-04-29 12:07 even when you found a bug, you escaped ASLR, canaries on the stack, X^W memory mappings etc, then you can execute your payload ... in a sandboxed process ... you can't do all the syscalls you want etc 2014-04-29 12:07 very hard 2014-04-29 12:07 larsc: the possibility of Coq being flawed in some respect that not only escaped the attention of the authors but also somehow leads to an exploitable vulnerability in the code proven correct by Coq is so vanishingly small, it's almost not worth consiering 2014-04-29 12:08 DocScrutinizer05: hahaha, you seriously underestimate today's malware 2014-04-29 12:08 well, then HTML is dead 2014-04-29 12:08 it is almost always able to detect VMs, and frequently able to exploit them, though a more usual mode of operation would be to not exploit the system at all 2014-04-29 12:08 since it's likely to be a honeypot or a security researcher's machine 2014-04-29 12:09 no, it's not 2014-04-29 12:09 you don't avoid going out on the street because a meteorite can hit you on the head 2014-04-29 12:09 yes it is, since when a VM doesn't help then you need a separate physical machine to use HTML 2014-04-29 12:10 what I mean is, no measure you can take (short of 100% formally verified sandbox stack) will provide you with guaranteed security 2014-04-29 12:10 anyway, isn't HTML turing complete ? 2014-04-29 12:10 no 2014-04-29 12:10 or maybe it's XML 2014-04-29 12:10 not even with CSS 2014-04-29 12:10 neither is XML 2014-04-29 12:10 a browser with JS disabled is almost entirely harmless, the only thing left is image parsers 2014-04-29 12:11 aha! 2014-04-29 12:11 anyways, two things 2014-04-29 12:11 1) nothing you can practically do will provide you with 100% guarantee. but you can do 99.99...% for arbitrary number of 9's 2014-04-29 12:11 2) your machine is not really interesting anymore these days 2014-04-29 12:11 http://helpx.adobe.com/security/products/flash-player/apsb14-13.html 2014-04-29 12:12 unless you are specifically targeted, and if you are, you *will* be owned 2014-04-29 12:12 what is interesting is your data elsewhere, and it is usually waaaay easier to access than hacking browser, secured by best minds ever 2014-04-29 12:12 I don't remember where I read that, but I saw somewhere that XML language was "adjectif" which then proved it was not possible to ever parse it correctly, there will ever be a document that will not get correctly parsed 2014-04-29 12:12 is that BS? 2014-04-29 12:13 ysionneau: perhaps for XML--definitely not for HTML 2014-04-29 12:13 with drive by attacks it's a bit like in nature you don't have to be the fasted gnu in the herd, just faster than the slowest gnu in the herd 2014-04-29 12:13 whitequark: ok 2014-04-29 12:13 if somebody targets you though you are screwed 2014-04-29 12:13 if somebody targets you, you probably shouldn't even try, it's an exercise in futility 2014-04-29 12:14 otherwise... first you need to understand your threat model. without that you are stumbling in the dark 2014-04-29 12:14 DocScrutinizer05 probably doesn't have a coherent one :p 2014-04-29 12:14 sure, security without threat model is pointless 2014-04-29 12:16 * DocScrutinizer05 wonders why he feels pissed again 2014-04-29 12:17 "Wait...so...according to the new update...they blew the cost estimate". pandora meets the groundhog. https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/myidkey/myidkey-passwords-at-the-tip-of-your-finger/comments 2014-04-29 12:18 gang of handwaving theorists prolly doing none of the smartass things they claim are lasst cute shite 2014-04-29 12:18 DocScrutinizer05: teach us, enlightened one! 2014-04-29 12:19 ysionneau: threat model: 1) they're everywhere. 2) trust no one. 2014-04-29 12:20 wpwrak: appropriate response: get inside a box 1x2x0.5m. wait until they are no longer around. 2014-04-29 12:20 box with white walls and foam walls 2014-04-29 12:20 wait until you are SURE they're no longer around, e.g., just stay in there. it's safer. 2014-04-29 12:21 larsc: I was more thinking about a wooden one, but that works too, I guess 2014-04-29 12:23 whitequark: no 2014-04-29 12:24 whitequark: I'll neither give nor take lessons to/from a group that acts hostile 2014-04-29 12:26 I don't think anyone here is hostile, I just think that some people here have strong opinions and then defend them vigorously 2014-04-29 12:26 ... including DocScrutinizer05 ("handwaving theorists doing none of smartass things they claim", yea) 2014-04-29 12:27 meanwhile ... neo900 = 357 ! 2014-04-29 12:27 meanwhile, that's old 2014-04-29 12:27 well, didn't check it for a few days 2014-04-29 12:28 * whitequark imagines DocScrutinizer as http://cdn.grumpycats.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/04.27.2014-1.jpg 2014-04-29 12:28 lol 2014-04-29 12:28 he's cute then ;) 2014-04-29 12:28 DocScrutinizer05 has left #qi-hardware ["Konversation terminated!"] 2014-04-29 12:28 rha 2014-04-29 12:29 come back you little kitten :( 2014-04-29 12:29 must be "foul mood day" again :) 2014-04-29 12:31 this time it's strange he got pissed 2014-04-29 12:31 since the discussion was not ... agitated 2014-04-29 12:32 this one is even better, with the eyes half-closed: http://www.grumpycats.com/the-daily-grump-april-10-2014/ 2014-04-29 12:32 http://tsaoshin.deviantart.com/art/When-Will-My-No-Begin-395194478 2014-04-29 12:32 http://truestorieswithgill.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/20130915-190539.jpg 2014-04-29 12:33 whitequark: what have you started :) 2014-04-29 12:35 the cat war 2014-04-29 12:49 has anybody heard about 'Significant Motion Sensor' ... I googled around there is motion sensor...but according to this page it does exist https://source.android.com/devices/sensors/composite_sensors.html#Significant 2014-04-29 12:52 well that probably means that the sensor has a programable threshold and until the motion does not reach that threshold the motion is not reported 2014-04-29 12:52 -> no IRQ -> CPU sleeps 2014-04-29 12:54 your typical accellerometer is able to detect samll changes, e.g. the desk is vibrating because somebody tramples on the floor 2014-04-29 12:54 or because you are typing on your keyboard 2014-04-29 12:54 larsc: yes the sensor works that way...what i was trying to figure out whether this is a new kind of sensor or this is the same accelerometer sensor but with 'smarts' built into the firmware 2014-04-29 12:55 nicksydney_: all kinds of sensors have such a threshold 2014-04-29 12:55 according to this http://www.etezian.org/files/fosdem13_stm_accel.pdf (page 6 and 8) 2014-04-29 12:56 e.g. the adxl345 and that one is a few years old 2014-04-29 12:56 Kionix & ST LIS3DSH 2014-04-29 12:57 I think what is special about them is the programable statemachine 2014-04-29 12:57 rather than a fixed function pipeline 2014-04-29 13:03 (neo900) heh, 358 ! and almost at 75 kEUR. now we know where he went, to celebrate ! 2014-04-29 13:04 larsc: "The LIS3DSH is an ultra low-power high performance three-axis linear accelerometer belonging to the “nano” family with embedded state machine that can be programmed to implement autonomous applications." 2014-04-29 13:04 "with embedded state machine" :) 2014-04-29 13:05 cost $3.01 http://www.digikey.com/product-search/en?WT.z_cid=sp_497_0928_buynow&Enterprise=44&lang=en&Vendor=497&mpart=LIS3DSHTR 2014-04-29 13:09 nicksydney_: yea, that means that you can basically program your wakeup condition 2014-04-29 13:10 where as older hardware has just say a regiter where you write the minimum g value to wakeup 2014-04-29 13:14 was looking at the Kionix app note http://www.kionix.com/sites/default/files/AN029%20Getting%20Started%20with%20the%20KXCNL.pdf and basically looking through it there are 2 main trigger that you can tap into - Free Fall and Motion Detection 2014-04-29 13:15 pardon me...my mistake the other doc http://www.kionix.com/sites/default/files/Motion%20Matters%20-%20The%20KXCNL%20Accelerometer%20with%20Dual%20State%20Machines%20-%20How%20it%20works%20and%20what%20it%20can%20do%20for%20you.pdf says ... "The KXCNL accelerometer has two independent, finite 2014-04-29 13:15 screen orientation, Tap/Double-Tap, step recognitio n, and more." 2014-04-29 13:15 state machines that can be defined with up to 16 states each, along with programmable actions initiated at state transitions. This allows users to implement a wide range of recogniti on algorithms, such as wake-up, free-fall, 2014-04-29 13:40 jekhor has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 2014-04-29 13:43 porchaso0 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 2014-04-29 13:45 porchao has joined #qi-hardware 2014-04-29 13:50 jekhor has joined #qi-hardware 2014-04-29 13:53 rz2k has quit [] 2014-04-29 13:54 Hi larsc 2014-04-29 13:56 sup 2014-04-29 13:57 been a while, hope you're doing well 2014-04-29 13:57 larsc: are you at work ? 2014-04-29 13:57 I've resumed debugging the dma in jz4740_mmc.c and I think I'll need your help 2014-04-29 13:58 ok 2014-04-29 13:58 we can talk about it later if you're busy right now (I was reading the channel backlog just now and noticed you were there) 2014-04-29 13:59 I can neither confirm or deny that I'm currently at work ;) 2014-04-29 13:59 nor 2014-04-29 13:59 * pcercuei looks 2014-04-29 13:59 haha, ok ;-) 2014-04-29 13:59 he's at work :) 2014-04-29 14:00 pcercuei just dropped the ball ;-) 2014-04-29 14:00 no problem, we'll talk later 2014-04-29 14:00 after he was reassigned to the NSA he's always been rather vague about what he's doing 2014-04-29 14:00 atommann has quit [Quit: Leaving] 2014-04-29 14:01 :) 2014-04-29 14:04 jekhor has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 2014-04-29 14:07 porchao has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 2014-04-29 14:08 porchao has joined #qi-hardware 2014-04-29 14:23 qwebirc67897 has joined #qi-hardware 2014-04-29 14:23 qwebirc67897 is now known as rjeffries 2014-04-29 14:24 wpwrak this looks shiny. (I know, they have challenges. Still, it seems to exist in the wild now): https://twitter.com/CoolPileCom/status/458682168005234688/photo/1 2014-04-29 14:27 yes, i've been watching their progress. it does seem that they've started shipping. yet people are still heavily guessing 2014-04-29 14:29 michael_lee has joined #qi-hardware 2014-04-29 14:31 sb0 has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 2014-04-29 14:34 industrial design is not bad. Is tehir display about same as your anelok, or smaller? 2014-04-29 14:36 wpwrak fwiw I think your jog wheel will be a nice user input method. I still dream that someday somebody will mod your code so the character being selected is displayed 2x or 3x teh size. but am NOT holding my breath. 2014-04-29 14:38 it may be the same size. in any case very similar 2014-04-29 14:39 (wheel) i'm actually gravitating towards a slider. results so far don't look too bad. 2014-04-29 14:40 and the password input was just a very very early demo. nothing final there :) 2014-04-29 14:43 sb0 has joined #qi-hardware 2014-04-29 14:47 michael_lee has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 2014-04-29 14:48 (slider experiments) i made a very simple slider sensor made of two triangles, one of them ground, the other the actual sensor. the signal strength is pretty good. 2014-04-29 14:49 what doesn't work so well are a) fall and rise times (that should be mainly a question of proper filtering - right now i just use the raw samples without further ado), and 2014-04-29 14:50 b) high variability depending on finger position (e.g., whether a little above or below the sensor or moving diagonally across it) and finger pressure 2014-04-29 14:52 the data i can gather doesn't look as if it was sufficient for auto-calibration of all the relevant parameters (i could auto-calibrate "idle", but there's no good way to determine, for instance, the values at the left and right border of the sensor, without actually asking the user to put a finger there) 2014-04-29 14:54 however, if i had little more information, i could probably just eliminate the variable common offset and multiplier 2014-04-29 14:56 this "little more information" could come from turning the ground triangle into a sensor, too. that would add a second channel and give me an essentially complementary value 2014-04-29 14:56 michael_lee has joined #qi-hardware 2014-04-29 14:56 that's still fairly rough, but then, we don't need superb precision there anyway 2014-04-29 14:57 it's more about detecting things like "left tap", "swish to the right", and so on 2014-04-29 14:58 rjeffries has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 2014-04-29 15:00 (wheel) i'm actually gravitating towards a slider. results so far don't look too bad. 2014-04-29 15:00 is the jog wheel that bad ? me would take mechanical input method over touch anytime (unless it's really bad) 2014-04-29 15:06 the wheel feels reasonably nice but has many drawbacks: 1) high cost - it's the 2nd most expensive component in the design (after the display), 2) size - it's big and defines the minimum thickness of the whole device, 2014-04-29 15:07 3) sourcing risk - there's only one source i know of, so if that one dries up, it may be difficult to find a replacement, and even less a mechanically identical one, 2014-04-29 15:08 4) wear - it can break due to intense use, particularly in the presence of dirt or other contaminants, 2014-04-29 15:09 5) wear 2 - it produces (a little) mechanical stress on the PCB, 2014-04-29 15:10 6) limited flexibility - all you can do is press the button and turn left or right, while a slider could have multiple tap zones and perhaps also a variable resolution 2014-04-29 15:12 7) makes case design more demanding because the case needs fairly precise clearance around the wheel. too much and it will look sloppy. too little and the wheel will rub against the case. 2014-04-29 15:13 that's a lot of limitations indeed 2014-04-29 15:13 oh well... :-( 2014-04-29 15:13 advantages of the wheel are: a) feels nice, b) gives anelok a unique look, c) very clearly defined behaviour (things are either on or off, no calibration required) 2014-04-29 15:15 regarding c) of course, rotary encoders have a tendency of getting bouncier with time, and eventually they bounce more than the debouncing algorithm expects ... 2014-04-29 15:16 ah, and advantage d) no power required in standby. 2014-04-29 15:18 rz2k has joined #qi-hardware 2014-04-29 15:18 regarding a), larger amount of rotation don't feel so nice, though. so a slider should be more pleasant there, too, since you just move the finger back and forth, without having to perform a proper rotation. 2014-04-29 15:21 and drawback 3) seems to be a real problem too 2014-04-29 15:26 yeah, it's the sort of risk i very strongly dislike 2014-04-29 15:27 DocScrutinizer51: wouldn't you agree, about sourcing risks and the fun it is when parts turn into unobtainium ? :) 2014-04-29 15:27 actually, i should make a little video of the critter i have this far 2014-04-29 15:30 w00t, shiny new video :-) 2014-04-29 15:51 arielenter has joined #qi-hardware 2014-04-29 15:52 video shot. now the post-processing ... 2014-04-29 15:55 jekhor has joined #qi-hardware 2014-04-29 16:03 atommann has joined #qi-hardware 2014-04-29 16:07 pcercuei has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 2014-04-29 16:18 jekhor has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 2014-04-29 16:19 kristianpaul has quit [Quit: leaving] 2014-04-29 16:21 kristianpaul has joined #qi-hardware 2014-04-29 16:21 kristianpaul has quit [Changing host] 2014-04-29 16:21 kristianpaul has joined #qi-hardware 2014-04-29 16:26 grrr, how to open a .lib created with kicad libedit? 2014-04-29 16:26 it won't show it in "current library" even after adding its path to the search list 2014-04-29 16:26 * sb0 will soon open altium designer again 2014-04-29 16:28 why didn't they simply have a normal file->open dialog box?!? 2014-04-29 16:30 oh and saving a project file is the same crap. you can't select a path... 2014-04-29 16:31 but you can zip and unzip files from the menu. useful feature, that. 2014-04-29 16:43 seriously even setting the name of the project file is a struggle 2014-04-29 16:43 pcercuei has joined #qi-hardware 2014-04-29 16:44 right click on it, and it proposes "New directory" 2014-04-29 16:44 wtf 2014-04-29 16:50 ah, re. the library you have to 1) go in eeschema preferences 2) add it specifically in the list of libraries. adding the search path is not enough. 2014-04-29 16:50 phew 2014-04-29 16:50 usual open source UI design 2014-04-29 16:51 michael_lee has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 2014-04-29 16:54 arielenter has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 2014-04-29 16:55 arielenter has joined #qi-hardware 2014-04-29 16:59 ;-) 2014-04-29 16:59 hint: when you begin your project, save the "preferences". that's your .pro 2014-04-29 17:00 then exit eeschema and add libraries directly to the .pro file 2014-04-29 17:00 likewise for cvpcb and pcbnew 2014-04-29 17:00 warning: pcbnew will delete the libs you added for cvpcb and replace them with the default list 2014-04-29 17:01 so make sure you keep an up to date copy of your .pro around (e.g., in git) 2014-04-29 17:01 and yes, agreed on the suckishness of library handling 2014-04-29 17:01 countless hour of expert work must have been poured into pessimizing the user experience there ... 2014-04-29 17:05 atommann has quit [Quit: Leaving] 2014-04-29 17:09 I think I'll soon cut my losses and get back to altium 2014-04-29 17:09 now trying to create a footprint, and I can't even figure out how to open the damn footprint editor 2014-04-29 17:11 since they put the schematic symbol editor in the eeschema tools menu, I thought they would put the footprint editor in the pcbnew tool menu, but NO 2014-04-29 17:11 that would be intuitive 2014-04-29 17:12 larsc: are you there 2014-04-29 17:12 don't use the footprint editor. use fped. 2014-04-29 17:13 the footprint editor is somewhere there but it really really sucks 2014-04-29 17:14 I'm also noticing that Gerber export is missing from "Fabrication Outputs" in pcbnew. since this is the feature that everyone is going to use to make any PCB, it's only logical they hid it somewhere else, preferably in another tool... 2014-04-29 17:15 apelete: yes 2014-04-29 17:16 oh, it's an ICON 2014-04-29 17:16 whoa 2014-04-29 17:17 did anyone, like, thought about the UI? or did every programmer add some option here and there, without any coordination and in the way that was easiest to code? 2014-04-29 17:18 sb0: they a strong belivers in natural evolution of UIs rather than intelligent designed UIs ;) 2014-04-29 17:18 survival of well works at least somehow 2014-04-29 17:19 gerber is in "plot" 2014-04-29 17:21 (neo900) drums, please ! 359 and crossed 75 kEUR. 2014-04-29 17:21 dos1: what kind of marketing stunt did you guys just pull off ? :) 2014-04-29 17:22 wpwrak: woah, just looked few minutes ago and it was 358 2014-04-29 17:22 wpwrak: do you have some kind of automated notifications of something? :D 2014-04-29 17:22 larsc: so, about dma on jz4740_mmc.c 2014-04-29 17:22 well... we're working on marketing stunt right now, but I guess that doesn't count :P 2014-04-29 17:22 was wondering where I can put a breakpoint or printf to see the beginning of data transfers in dmaengine 2014-04-29 17:23 larsc: my problem being the error on line 112 here: http://paste.debian.net/96293/ 2014-04-29 17:24 recently I've been only pointing to Neo900 in comments under some "PiPhone" and Firefox OS articles 2014-04-29 17:25 larsc: I4m basically trying to pinpoint what is being transfered (from which src address to which dst address) to see what is going wrong 2014-04-29 17:25 dos1: maybe someone else mentioned and it went viral 2014-04-29 17:25 larsc: but I don't understand (yet) dmaengine inner workings :-/ 2014-04-29 17:25 dos1: or some new atrocities by NSA have been revealed :) 2014-04-29 17:26 quick googling doesn't reveal anything big about neo900, but haven't checked about nsa yet :) 2014-04-29 17:27 btw. I noticed that on 4chan's /g/ there's already a "Obligatory link to Neo900" meme each time N900 is mentioned :D 2014-04-29 17:27 whoopa, cirrus just ate wolfson 2014-04-29 17:28 of course, copy/paste in the footprint editor would be luxury 2014-04-29 17:28 sb0: told you that you should use fped :) 2014-04-29 17:29 fped is admittedly a bit more challenging. i.e., you have to have an idea of what you're about to do, instead of just doodling away 2014-04-29 17:29 woah, *.bbc.co.uk just asked my browser to present my user certificate to it 2014-04-29 17:29 it's the first time I've seen anything like that outside of StartTLS page 2014-04-29 17:30 but I'm not sure why they want it there... I just clicked on "Wolfson Microelectronics is to be taken over by Cirrus Logic" link in google :x 2014-04-29 17:33 probably to enhance their user tracking ... 2014-04-29 17:34 next, you'll only get to see google ads if you can _prove_ that you're you 2014-04-29 17:35 canceled it and it just loaded the page; no errors, no "you didn't authorized; do it to improve your experience!", just nothing 2014-04-29 17:36 wpwrak: internetausweiss und internetfuehrerschein bitte 2014-04-29 17:39 larsc: forgot about the actual code, it's here: http://git.seketeli.net/cgit/~apelete/qi-kernel.git/log/?h=jz4740-dma 2014-04-29 17:39 apelete: jz4740_dma_start_transfer() starts the transfer 2014-04-29 17:40 larsc: yes, but that just calls dmaengine, right ? 2014-04-29 17:40 so the problem lies somewhere in the data passed to dmaengine I guess 2014-04-29 17:41 apelete: no, that's in the dma engine driver 2014-04-29 17:41 where the transfer is physically started 2014-04-29 17:44 ach so, I should break on 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