2014-04-22 00:00 <DocScrutinizer05> actually for *electrons* (physical direction pragma) it would be push and pull swapped. At least that's what I consider "push" and "pull"
2014-04-22 00:01 <DocScrutinizer05> (seen from pin3)
2014-04-22 00:01 <nicksydney> so if i change "“Holes” are push and pull around" to "electrons push and pull around" makes more sense ?
2014-04-22 00:02 <DocScrutinizer05> yes :-)
2014-04-22 00:02 <nicksydney> cool..will do that :)
2014-04-22 00:04 <nicksydney> DocScrutinizer05: http://postimg.org/image/9smy5wjzh/ better ?
2014-04-22 00:04 <DocScrutinizer05> unless you write from a C3 point of view. then you could say C3 pushes electrons to V+ and pulls them from ground. But usually it's the active component (NE555) for which the activities are defined
2014-04-22 00:04 <DocScrutinizer05> the one's push is the other's pull ;-)
2014-04-22 00:05 <DocScrutinizer05> whe I push you, you may say you pulled me
2014-04-22 00:05 <nicksydney> yeah i'm more inclined to view it from the NE555 point
2014-04-22 00:06 <DocScrutinizer05> ooh, and actually not holes but electrons are "moving from ground to C3"
2014-04-22 00:07 <DocScrutinizer05> holes move from (V)+ to -/GND
2014-04-22 00:07 <DocScrutinizer05> electrons do the opposite
2014-04-22 00:07 <nicksydney> ahh ok
2014-04-22 00:09 <nicksydney> DocScrutinizer05: like this http://postimg.org/image/dszgzmqx3/ ?
2014-04-22 00:10 <DocScrutinizer05> again broken, needs click to "section 251"
2014-04-22 00:10 <DocScrutinizer05> could this be my adblock?
2014-04-22 00:11 <nicksydney> try this http://postimg.org/image/pcog1kkvh/fba772c5/
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2014-04-22 00:12 <DocScrutinizer05> anyway looks good
2014-04-22 00:14 <nicksydney> will be a useful reference for myself down the track as will not be able to remember everything i learned :)
2014-04-22 00:14 <DocScrutinizer05> :-)
2014-04-22 00:18 <nicksydney> the whole exercise of learning this circuit is because i'm thinking of making RA8875 driver board...and one of thing that really confuse the hell out of me was producing the different voltage required for the Backlight
2014-04-22 00:19 <DocScrutinizer05> aaah yes
2014-04-22 00:20 <nicksydney> the board will have RA8875 for interfacing with 4.3inch screen + BLE (for communication to Android) + temperature + barometer  and for MCU was thinking M3 or M0
2014-04-22 00:20 <DocScrutinizer05> best you forget about electrons (and even holes) and just think "current" (keeping in mind this is technical current pragma, + -> - )
2014-04-22 00:21 <DocScrutinizer05> current always flows from + to minus, or from higher to lower voltage, whatever fits your model best
2014-04-22 00:23 <nicksydney> this is the schematic for the power supply i found on the net http://postimg.org/image/o370v7dvz/f3d8104a/ ... trying to replicate that by using TPS61040
2014-04-22 00:23 <DocScrutinizer05> only for electron beams in CRT ans the like, you need to know the electrons actually come from minus and move to plus
2014-04-22 00:23 <nicksydney> DocScrutinizer05: ok got it...will think about it as just normal current going from + to lower voltage
2014-04-22 00:24 <DocScrutinizer05> but even experienced EE usually don't bother about electrons
2014-04-22 00:24 <DocScrutinizer05> actually often I tend to forget when I better should remember
2014-04-22 00:25 <DocScrutinizer05> e.g. when pondering highly obscure stuff like electromigration (electrons bouncing metal atoms along the wire, literally!)
2014-04-22 00:25 <nicksydney> because this schematics http://postimg.org/image/o370v7dvz/f3d8104a/ shows that there is VLED+ and VLED- which makes me think need to understand about producing negative voltage and that's where i learned the termed 'Charge Pump' so it eventually brought me to learn about using 555 to produce negative voltage to understand the basic
2014-04-22 00:26 <DocScrutinizer05> seems to me like VLED- is pretty standard connected to GND
2014-04-22 00:27 <DocScrutinizer05> no need for negative voltage in there
2014-04-22 00:27 <DocScrutinizer05> *usually* GND = V-
2014-04-22 00:27 <nicksydney> ahhhh.....right....that's why when i was looking at that schematics again and trying to put the pieces together i realised that there is no diode present for the negative voltage
2014-04-22 00:28 <DocScrutinizer05> there's just a resistor for sensing the current
2014-04-22 00:28 <DocScrutinizer05> R8/R9
2014-04-22 00:29 <nicksydney> what is "sensing resistor" used for actually ?
2014-04-22 00:31 <nicksydney> DocScrutinizer05:  so "*usually* GND = V-" does that mean that when the backlight is connect the connection will be the VLED+ for BL+ and GND for BL- ?
2014-04-22 00:31 <DocScrutinizer05> L4 and D2 create a high (relative to input) voltage to feed backlight VLED+ with it. On  R8 there's a small voltage (some 0.x Volt) proportional to current through LEDs, and the chip U4 is sensing that via pin3/FeedBack
2014-04-22 00:32 <DocScrutinizer05> nicksydney: the connections are like shown in schematics
2014-04-22 00:33 <DocScrutinizer05> U4 is specialized chip to drive backlight
2014-04-22 00:34 <nicksydney> yeah i was thinking of replacing U4 with TPS61040 as that AIC1896 is not easy to get ... but again i could be wrong
2014-04-22 00:35 <nicksydney> R5 and R8 is a voltage divider correct ?
2014-04-22 00:35 <nicksydney> while R9 is to limit and pull current to GND ?
2014-04-22 00:35 <DocScrutinizer05> pin1/LX pulls current through L4 to store energy in that inductivity. Then U4 switches pin1 to open state, so the inductivity creates high voltage pushing through D2 into C23/21
2014-04-22 00:36 <DocScrutinizer05> yes, basically that's a voltage divider. But R8 and R9 (if populated) are parallel and can be considered one
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2014-04-22 00:39 <DocScrutinizer05> (voltage divider) here it doesn't serve that purpose. The purpose of R5 is to make any current going through Zener D4 (when voltage > maybe 13V) immediately pull up U4:3 to stop the oscillating of that chip and thus reduce output voltage it creates
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2014-04-22 00:57 <DocScrutinizer05> so basically R8 and R8 pull current to GND
2014-04-22 00:57 <nicksydney> ahhh ok let me see if i get this right.....when current flow from FB and since R5 and R8 is connected to GND ...the current is "pulled" towards GND by the resistor  which leaves less current to be "pulled" via D4 ?
2014-04-22 00:57 <DocScrutinizer05> no
2014-04-22 00:57 <DocScrutinizer05> FB is an input
2014-04-22 00:58 <DocScrutinizer05> D4 is normaly highimpedance aka "open"
2014-04-22 00:58 <DocScrutinizer05> simply forget it for now
2014-04-22 00:58 <DocScrutinizer05> voltahe upper end of R8/9 goes higher the higher the current
2014-04-22 00:59 <DocScrutinizer05> this voltage goes to FB input via R5
2014-04-22 00:59 <DocScrutinizer05> when voltage goes too high, U4 reduces frequency to regulate the current to LEDs
2014-04-22 00:59 <DocScrutinizer05> that's normal operation
2014-04-22 01:00 <DocScrutinizer05> now think something strange happens and voltage on VLED+ (and top of D4) rises above any sane limit to maybe 13V or more
2014-04-22 01:02 <DocScrutinizer05> D4 is a Zener that "closes"/connects the path for electric current when voltage along D4 goes >12V (that's why it's written there)
2014-04-22 01:02 <DocScrutinizer05> current flows from VLED+ resp C23/D2 to D4, through D4 and directly into FB
2014-04-22 01:03 <DocScrutinizer05> FB sees very high voltage and immediately stops activity of U4
2014-04-22 01:04 <nicksydney> "current flows from VLED+ resp C23/D2 to D4, through D4 and directly into FB" so it means that the Zener Diode "REverse breakdown voltage" can be reached ?
2014-04-22 01:05 <DocScrutinizer05> yes, exactly
2014-04-22 01:05 <DocScrutinizer05> on >12V plus whatever voltage is at lower end of D4
2014-04-22 01:05 <nicksydney> now this is interesting.....as learning something new again :)
2014-04-22 01:06 <DocScrutinizer05> :-)
2014-04-22 01:06 <DocScrutinizer05> afk o/
2014-04-22 01:06 <nicksydney> so the current 'push' and 'pull' between D4 and the FB uses that to determine when to 'supply' more current or not
2014-04-22 01:07 <DocScrutinizer05> there's no push/pull between D4 and FB. FB is an imput
2014-04-22 01:07 <DocScrutinizer05> 1/LX is the active output of U4
2014-04-22 01:07 <nicksydney> ok let me go this step-by-step....
2014-04-22 01:08 <nicksydney> 1/LX will provide current and the current flows 'through' D2 to supply to VLED+
2014-04-22 01:09 <DocScrutinizer05> LX connects to GND to increase current through L4. Then it does stop the current (high impedance) and thanks to "inertia" the current in L4 has to go through D2
2014-04-22 01:09 <DocScrutinizer05> so LX pulls current through L2, and L2 then pushes current through D2
2014-04-22 01:11 <DocScrutinizer05> this cycle happens like 1 mio times per second
2014-04-22 01:11 <DocScrutinizer05> and less often when FB goes high enough, so current through LEDs gets reduced when it's going too high
2014-04-22 01:12 <DocScrutinizer05> (actually it might adjust time of LX pulling, instead of frequency LX is pulling)
2014-04-22 01:13 <DocScrutinizer05> effect is the same: current reduction
2014-04-22 01:27 <nicksydney> so when this happens --> "and less often when FB goes high enough, so current through LEDs gets reduced when it's going too high" .... that's the time when the voltage will be higher than 12V and reverse voltage of D4 happens  and this makes current "flow" through D4 but the R5 and R8 resistor limit the current for the FB pin..is that correct how my thinking is ?
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2014-04-22 03:36 <DocScrutinizer05> without R5 the current through D4 would go straight to ground via very low resistance R8/9
2014-04-22 03:39 <DocScrutinizer05> thanks to R5 the FB input goes high level very easily as soon as D4 allows a small current to flow
2014-04-22 04:13 <nicksydney> DocScrutinizer05: so R5 is there to make sure "some current" does not flow through directly to GND so as can be picked up the signal by FB
2014-04-22 04:13 <DocScrutinizer05> yes
2014-04-22 04:17 <DocScrutinizer05> we want volatge from R8/9 on FB, for current feedback, but we also want allow D4 to immediately and efficiently "shut down" the device when overvoltage detected on VLED+
2014-04-22 04:19 <DocScrutinizer05> R5 allows voltage from R8/9 to go to FB with little attenuation (FB is very high resistance input), but doesn't allow all of current through D4 (when overvoltage) vanish directly to GND via R8/9
2014-04-22 04:24 <nicksydney> I understand the part that current flows through D4 and R5 "stops" some current from goingt o GND to be picked up by FB but I'm lost when you say "R5 allows voltage from R8/9 to go to FB "
2014-04-22 04:25 <nicksydney> i think the question that my head is ringing with "Where does the voltage from R8/R9 comes from as current are trying to push itself all to GND" ? :)
2014-04-22 04:26 <nicksydney> sorry if the question sound stupid :)
2014-04-22 04:31 <DocScrutinizer05> when current flows along a resistor, it creates a volatge along the resistor. This means for 100mA via LEDs there will be +1.2V (vs GND) on upper pin of R8/9
2014-04-22 04:31 <DocScrutinizer05> those 1.2V go straight to FB, via R5
2014-04-22 04:32 <DocScrutinizer05> it's not like current has a direction and needs to break to make it through the curve towards R5
2014-04-22 04:33 <nicksydney> i see....so current has a destination and voltage does not have any ..methamorphically speaking
2014-04-22 04:33 <DocScrutinizer05> hmmm, I have to ponder this, it#s not easy for me to understand :-)
2014-04-22 04:34 <DocScrutinizer05> it might be correct but I haven't understood it completely yet
2014-04-22 04:35 <DocScrutinizer05> may it helps when you compare a electric circuit with your heating pipes and radiators and the pump for the water
2014-04-22 04:35 <DocScrutinizer05> some radiators may be parallel to each other, others may be in series
2014-04-22 04:36 <DocScrutinizer05> the battery or power supply is the pump creating some pressure difference
2014-04-22 04:37 <DocScrutinizer05> the on/off-valves are resistors
2014-04-22 04:37 <nicksydney> "pressure difference" that's the word i was looking for...yes that makes sense ...because FB has less pressure the voltage "move" to that pin ?
2014-04-22 04:37 <DocScrutinizer05> also the radiators are rsistors
2014-04-22 04:39 <DocScrutinizer05> yes, some electricity moves there, but since it's a dead-end pipe basically that omly has a pressure gauge mounted to it (FB input), not much electricity is flowing through the R5 resistor to FB, and at FB you already have same pressure like at top pin of R8
2014-04-22 04:41 <DocScrutinizer05> for the pressure to propagate, not much volume has to move around, so any valve/resistor that's in there will probably not matter much since not a whole liter of water flows through it. It's more like one ml per minute that gets lost somewhere in pressure gauge
2014-04-22 04:41 <DocScrutinizer05> basically zero current is flowing
2014-04-22 04:41 <DocScrutinizer05> via R5
2014-04-22 04:43 <DocScrutinizer05> when D4 eventually "opens the valve", *some* water will flow via R5 down to the huge GND pipe and back to the pump, but the pressure on upper end of R5 will be hig, compared to lower end of same R5
2014-04-22 04:44 <DocScrutinizer05> if R5 wasn't there, all water would go straight to R8 and GND and not much pressure would be seen at FB
2014-04-22 04:45 <DocScrutinizer05> I mean if R5 was a straight pipe (aka wire)
2014-04-22 04:45 <nicksydney> gotchat
2014-04-22 04:45 <nicksydney> *gotcha
2014-04-22 04:46 <DocScrutinizer05> without any connection otoh the pressure at R8 couldn't get to FB at all
2014-04-22 04:46 <nicksydney> so with connection that is there (R5) the pressure was slow down so it can reach FB
2014-04-22 04:47 <DocScrutinizer05> *theoretically* we could also use an ideal diode instead of R5, that would only let current flow from R8 to FB but not the other way round
2014-04-22 04:47 <nicksydney> so that's why PIN3 is connected between D4 and R5
2014-04-22 04:48 <DocScrutinizer05> but there are no ideal diodes, they always bite a bit out of pressure/voltage even in forward direction of current. Usually ~0.7V
2014-04-22 04:48 <DocScrutinizer05> and diodes are more expensive than resistors
2014-04-22 04:49 <DocScrutinizer05> and then there's also some non-ideal parts in D4 behaviour, it might not be completely "tight" even on voltages lower than Zener voltage
2014-04-22 04:50 <nicksydney> what will happen if PIN3 was connected between R5 and R8 ?
2014-04-22 04:50 <DocScrutinizer05> as long as this leak is negligible compared to the flow of current that R5 allows to drain to GND, it doesn't matter
2014-04-22 04:51 <DocScrutinizer05> then overvoltage protection would not work at all
2014-04-22 04:51 <nicksydney> my best guess is it will not be picked up by FB
2014-04-22 04:51 <DocScrutinizer05> when PIN3 was connected between R5 and R8, then overvoltage protection would not work at all
2014-04-22 04:53 <nicksydney> because the voltage between R5 and R8 is very high for FB ?
2014-04-22 04:53 <nicksydney> "<DocScrutinizer05> those 1.2V go straight to FB, via R5" ... is that the 1.2V ?
2014-04-22 04:53 <DocScrutinizer05> current via R8 would increase *marginally* when D4 opens up completely, since R5 limits the current to insignifican amount. Thus voltage across R8 wouldn't increase any noticeable amount, and thus FB doesn't see any change
2014-04-22 04:54 <nicksydney> ahhh so i was correct :) ... the FB does not detect any changes and like you say the overvoltage protection would not work
2014-04-22 04:54 <nicksydney> got it !
2014-04-22 04:54 <DocScrutinizer05> so D4 and R5 are useless when FB  is connected to R8
2014-04-22 04:54 <nicksydney> ok ok now i see
2014-04-22 04:55 * nicksydney jumping like a rabbit as he can see how things works now
2014-04-22 04:55 <DocScrutinizer05> :-D
2014-04-22 04:55 <nicksydney> it's complicated but yet easy to understand !
2014-04-22 04:55 <DocScrutinizer05> yeah, this actually is a nice educational circuit
2014-04-22 04:56 <DocScrutinizer05> it shows a few concepts
2014-04-22 04:56 <nicksydney> for newbie like me all circuit are educational circuit :)
2014-04-22 04:57 <nicksydney> so that means there is no point having R9 as R8 (changing the value) will be more than enough ?
2014-04-22 04:58 <DocScrutinizer05> yes
2014-04-22 04:58 <nicksydney> in terms of selecting the correct R value normally how do you go about determining it ?
2014-04-22 04:58 <DocScrutinizer05> as long as the value is correct to create the right FB volatge when current through LEDs is nominal, it doesn't matter if it's one or two parallel resistors
2014-04-22 05:00 <nicksydney> i mean if you have to start designing this kind of circuit how to determine what is the correct resistor value to use ?
2014-04-22 05:01 <DocScrutinizer05> determining R8: find datasheet for U4. It has a formula that goes like: FB-voltage must be 1.3V, so for 100mA you need 13 Ohm, according to I*R=U rsp R=U/I
2014-04-22 05:03 <DocScrutinizer05> U=1,3V, I=0.1A, -> R=13Ohm
2014-04-22 05:03 <nicksydney> so normally in the datasheet it does tells you that if say for example you use L4 with 10uH you will get 100mA and then you can use that current value to calculate the voltage required to get the resistor right ?
2014-04-22 05:03 <DocScrutinizer05> when FB volatge must be 1.1V (datasheet needs to tell you), then your R is 5.5 Ohm for 200mA
2014-04-22 05:04 <DocScrutinizer05> L4 is fixed by design of U4 basically. They will tell you what L4 type to use
2014-04-22 05:05 <DocScrutinizer05> it's not really related to current you want to get for your LEDs
2014-04-22 05:05 <DocScrutinizer05> only R8 determines the current
2014-04-22 05:06 <nicksydney> DocScrutinizer05: something like this http://postimg.org/image/4asyduuf7/ba081bb3/ ?
2014-04-22 05:06 <DocScrutinizer05> and the current you get from datasheet of your display, it tells you how much current to use for the backlight
2014-04-22 05:06 <DocScrutinizer05> yes, exactly
2014-04-22 05:06 <DocScrutinizer05> 1.3V
2014-04-22 05:06 <DocScrutinizer05> my first estimation been already to the point
2014-04-22 05:07 <DocScrutinizer05> actually 1.233V
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2014-04-22 05:11 <nicksydney> from the datasheet the first page shows this circuit http://postimg.org/image/ufqga6udf/bd07bdb6/ and you were right as it specify the use of 10uH
2014-04-22 05:14 <nicksydney> but hang on noticed in one of the page the circuit that produce negative and positive output the L1 is different  http://postimg.org/image/v3y6yhuvf/09634334/
2014-04-22 05:15 <DocScrutinizer05> that circuit is for regulated output voltage, for backlight you need regulated output *current*
2014-04-22 05:16 <nicksydney> ahhh we need "regulated output current" to control the amount of current that are available for the LED as we don't want too much current as that will create problem...got it !
2014-04-22 05:17 <DocScrutinizer05> and the 6.8uH is for very low output current, the diagram says 10V@15mA
2014-04-22 05:18 <DocScrutinizer05> you need to study the complete datasheet, it wil have proper instructions how to use the chip and which external components to get
2014-04-22 05:20 <nicksydney> ok cool....going to write down what i learned today in my notes otherwise will forget again
2014-04-22 05:21 <DocScrutinizer05> in http://postimg.org/image/v3y6yhuvf/09634334/ you will find the chage pump again
2014-04-22 05:21 <DocScrutinizer05> ;-)
2014-04-22 05:22 <DocScrutinizer05> for the -10V section
2014-04-22 05:22 <DocScrutinizer05> it's exactly identical
2014-04-22 05:22 <nicksydney> yes that's right...that's what we were discussing :)
2014-04-22 05:23 <nicksydney> always makes me nervous playing with high voltage stuff as not experienced enough :)
2014-04-22 05:23 <nicksydney> that's why i always read and read more to understand first before doing any high voltage stuff :)
2014-04-22 05:23 <DocScrutinizer05> even C3 and C4 are named identical, haha
2014-04-22 05:24 <DocScrutinizer05> err, are you planning to operate that stuff at 100V instead of 10V?
2014-04-22 05:24 <DocScrutinizer05> 10V is not exactly any high voltage
2014-04-22 05:25 <DocScrutinizer05> or 12V or even 18V which might be needed for your backlight
2014-04-22 05:26 <nicksydney> no not 100V i'm already worried with 20V :)
2014-04-22 05:26 <nicksydney> let me check what is the backlight voltage
2014-04-22 05:26 <DocScrutinizer05> hmm, not sure anymore about C4, was it actually C4 in that other Ne55 based circuit?
2014-04-22 05:27 <nicksydney> yes C4 was used like you said as buffer cap in the NE555 circuit
2014-04-22 05:27 <nicksydney> it's labelled C5 in the NE555
2014-04-22 05:28 <nicksydney> this one http://postimg.org/image/j019ckor9/7cfa6149/
2014-04-22 05:28 <DocScrutinizer05> right, C4 is C4
2014-04-22 05:29 <DocScrutinizer05> and C3 is C3
2014-04-22 05:30 <DocScrutinizer05> btw 20V are nothing to worry about, actually not even with wet feet :-)
2014-04-22 05:30 <DocScrutinizer05> your landline phone has ~40V and is considered safe
2014-04-22 05:31 <nicksydney> yikes ! didn't know that :)
2014-04-22 05:31 <DocScrutinizer05> vans have 24V batteries
2014-04-22 05:31 <nicksydney> i'm worried to blow up something :)
2014-04-22 05:31 <DocScrutinizer05> your laptop has a 22V powersupply with exposed plug
2014-04-22 05:31 <nicksydney> i blew up a regulator on my Arduino UNO already when was playing around with a TFT screen :(
2014-04-22 05:32 <nicksydney> *pop* and white smoke :)
2014-04-22 05:32 <DocScrutinizer05> yeah, you can blow up stuff anyway. even on 1.8V
2014-04-22 05:32 <nicksydney> true
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2014-04-22 05:33 <DocScrutinizer05> nevertheless it helps *a lot* to understand what you're doing
2014-04-22 05:33 <DocScrutinizer05> ooops, fuse of laptop blown ;-P
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2014-04-22 05:34 <DocScrutinizer05> or panic shutdown due to dangerous PSU?
2014-04-22 05:34 <nicksydney> hahahaha......nah USB not working need
2014-04-22 05:35 <DocScrutinizer05> have fun! I'm afk
2014-04-22 05:35 <DocScrutinizer05> o/
2014-04-22 05:37 <nicksydney> thanks DocScrutinizer05
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2014-04-22 11:02 <whitequark> guys, have you seen PSHDL? http://pshdl.org/
2014-04-22 11:02 <whitequark> larsc: ^
2014-04-22 11:03 <larsc> yes
2014-04-22 11:03 <whitequark> what do you think about it?
2014-04-22 11:03 <larsc> take the worst parts of verilog and vhdl and mix them with java ;)
2014-04-22 11:05 <whitequark> lol
2014-04-22 11:07 <larsc> I don't like it, but that might be personal taste
2014-04-22 11:08 <larsc> it's a bit like php
2014-04-22 11:08 <whitequark> PHPDL?
2014-04-22 11:12 <ysionneau> So, is the charge absolute or not? damn it! :p
2014-04-22 11:12 * ysionneau leaving -> |_
2014-04-22 11:14 <larsc> ysionneau: it's relatively absolute
2014-04-22 11:15 <ysionneau> it's absolutely relative
2014-04-22 11:16 <ysionneau> or the other way round :)
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2014-04-22 12:50 <nicksydney> interesting site - http://solderpad.com/
2014-04-22 12:51 <nicksydney> uhhh MilkyMist One solderpad http://solderpad.com/solderpad/milkymist-one/
2014-04-22 12:53 <whitequark> their circuit viewer causes nausea
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2014-04-22 13:05 <nicksydney> whitequark: think of it as a 3d cinema :)
2014-04-22 13:13 <whitequark> hm?
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2014-04-22 13:31 <wpwrak> 3D crimes ? :)
2014-04-22 13:41 <larsc> 3d crimera?
2014-04-22 13:42 <larsc> crimea
2014-04-22 13:48 <nicksydney> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HJQa1GlIi_Q SMD production line porn :)
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2014-04-22 17:18 <eintopf> nicksydney: cool
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2014-04-22 22:41 * whitequark ponders at "powdered alcohol" that recently appeared on the net
2014-04-22 22:42 <DocScrutinizer05> whitequark: congrats, your moscow streets get nicer now. Don't dare to think otherwise! The project manager clearly stated that those who don't like this project are not of a sane state of mind
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2014-04-22 22:42 <whitequark> apparently, ethyl alcohol trapped in cyclodextrin crystals
2014-04-22 22:42 <whitequark> DocScrutinizer05: what?
2014-04-22 22:43 <DocScrutinizer05> "official" graffiti
2014-04-22 22:43 <whitequark> what?
2014-04-22 22:43 <whitequark> what the hell are you talking about
2014-04-22 22:44 <DocScrutinizer05> "Putin" painting walls with graffiti showing Krim in russian colors, and of course the logo i´of his party next to it
2014-04-22 22:44 <whitequark> you clearly are informed much better than me
2014-04-22 22:44 <DocScrutinizer05> see? German TV news are not all that bad
2014-04-22 22:44 <DocScrutinizer05> ;-D
2014-04-22 22:45 <DocScrutinizer05> I seem to recall they said "2000 walls"
2014-04-22 22:45 <whitequark> I do not watch TV of any country
2014-04-22 22:45 <DocScrutinizer05> I can well understand that
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2014-04-22 22:45 <whitequark> hmmm, so, powdered alcohol. I'd need α-cyclodextrin
2014-04-22 22:46 dandon_ is now known as dandon
2014-04-22 22:46 <whitequark> sigma-aldrich is selling it for like 300EUR/kg
2014-04-22 22:48 <DocScrutinizer05> seems this http://themoscownews.com/arts/20121210/190981821.html is an initial message preparing the public for what's rolling out now
2014-04-22 22:48 <whitequark> apparently, I can make it myself with starch and some enzymes. α-amylase is going for $20/120ml, but their price list is weird
2014-04-22 22:48 <whitequark> now, I'd also need α-CGTase. not sure where to get that yet, hmmmm
2014-04-22 22:50 <whitequark> grmbl. no vendors here. alibaba otoh has some
2014-04-22 22:50 <whitequark> no, I don't need a *bucket*
2014-04-22 22:53 <whitequark> (╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻
2014-04-22 22:53 <whitequark> why can't I buy a completely trivial purified enzyme in reasonable quantities, is it 2014 or so
2014-04-22 22:54 <whitequark> why the fuck are we, as a society, focused on fucking rectangles with fucking displays
2014-04-22 22:55 <whitequark> gah
2014-04-22 22:55 <whitequark> won't work.
2014-04-22 22:58 <whitequark> fascinating: apparently, a pinhole camera performs a spatial Fourier transform on the incoming light
2014-04-22 22:58 <whitequark> I'm not sure I understand how that works
2014-04-22 23:05 <nicksydney> DocScrutinizer05: just put a sample oder from TI for the TPS chip let's see if they approve it for the project :)
2014-04-22 23:05 <DocScrutinizer05> hm?
2014-04-22 23:05 <nicksydney> going to design the pcb to test it on when it arrive
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2014-04-22 23:06 <DocScrutinizer05> ooh
2014-04-22 23:06 <DocScrutinizer05> good luck!
2014-04-22 23:06 <nicksydney> going to divide and conquer...once the power part is working than i will work on the RA8875 chip
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2014-04-22 23:08 <nicksydney> this is the block diagram for the board http://postimg.org/image/4xfx9luyr/3ebfbd85/ .. not my design ..this is from RA8875 demo board ... not going to use ROM in my design
2014-04-22 23:09 <nicksydney> and this is the RA8875 chip schematics that i got from the same doc http://postimg.org/image/f0t7p7foj/bff6eb78/
2014-04-22 23:10 <DocScrutinizer05> whitequark: why do you want to build cyclodextrin (if that's the right name, I dunno). Seems that stuff is widely available for relatively low cost
2014-04-22 23:10 <DocScrutinizer05> and used in roundabout everything nowadays, like "Febreze air freshener"
2014-04-22 23:11 <DocScrutinizer05> also washing powder that claims to keep laundry fresh (read smelling) for 2 weeks
2014-04-22 23:12 <DocScrutinizer05> literally everybody and his dog is using that stuff for smart as well as nonsensical purposes
2014-04-22 23:13 <DocScrutinizer05> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Febreze
2014-04-22 23:16 <DocScrutinizer05> >>I'd need α-cyclodextrin<< ooops, they use beta
2014-04-22 23:18 <DocScrutinizer05> and the most important question: what the heck do you need powdered alcohol for?
2014-04-22 23:24 <DocScrutinizer05> lol, http://www.sigmaaldrich.com/catalog/search?interface=Product%20Name&term=Alpha+Cyclodextrin&N=0+&mode=mode%20matchpartialmax&focus=product&lang=en&region=US  those guys deserve a price for the most fucked up webpage since... 5 days. When you reject their cookies, the page never stops reloading
2014-04-22 23:25 <wpwrak> the world is full of this sort of pages ...
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2014-04-22 23:39 <DocScrutinizer05> isn't there any way to instruct browsers to not accept cookies for $this-url ?
2014-04-22 23:41 <DocScrutinizer05> I'd love to send to /. something like "hey! those guys give away Alcohol for free! just fill the form :-)  http://www.sigmaaldrich.com/catalog/search?interface=Product%20Name&term=free-alcohol&ACCEPTCOOKIES=NO"
2014-04-22 23:42 <DocScrutinizer05> after all, when they already offer their own DDoS exploit, then way deny and reject it?
2014-04-22 23:42 <DocScrutinizer05> s/way /why /
2014-04-22 23:42 <qi-bot> DocScrutinizer05 meant: "after all, when they already offer their own DDoS exploit, then why deny and reject it?"
2014-04-22 23:45 <DocScrutinizer05> never waste an opportunity for an exploit borne from ignorant use of deprecated technologies
2014-04-22 23:49 <DocScrutinizer05> hmm, maybe I just need to tackle this a tiny bit smarter: "hey, have you recently checked the vulnerability of your FireFox? To check, set 'accept cookies: never' and then visit this pake: $URL. When after 60min the page hasn't detected the vulnerability in your FF, then it's probably safe to simply abort the test. Nevertheless redo every other week, new vulnerabilities could sneek in to FF with updates that get installed
2014-04-22 23:49 <DocScrutinizer05> automatically!
2014-04-22 23:49 <DocScrutinizer05> page, even
2014-04-22 23:50 <DocScrutinizer05> might fly
2014-04-22 23:54 * DocScrutinizer05 wonders what's best channel to start this game
2014-04-22 23:54 <DocScrutinizer05> media channel
2014-04-22 23:55 <DocScrutinizer05> /.? reddit? some other silly fora? Twitter?
2014-04-22 23:57 <DocScrutinizer05> BOFH is quite inspiring sometimes
2014-04-22 23:57 <DocScrutinizer05> ;-P
2014-04-22 23:58 <DocScrutinizer05> >>never waste a wrong connection<<
2014-04-22 23:59 <DocScrutinizer05> >>don't say 'sorry, wrong number', say 'Cindy? Cindy isn't available for you anymore! Cindy is completely pissed of you and I shall tell you to fuck off<<