2014-04-20 00:02 dos1 has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 2014-04-20 00:32 LOL! http://xkcd.com/1357/ 2014-04-20 00:32 [2014-04-16 Wed 03:32:56] natsukao: you've been warned twice to stop 2014-04-20 00:32 [2014-04-16 Wed 03:33:20] I° Amendament of American Constitution defends Freedom Of Speech 2014-04-20 00:32 [2014-04-16 Wed 03:33:31] *** You set a ban on natsukao!*@*. 2014-04-20 00:38 FDCX has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 2014-04-20 00:51 FDCX has joined #qi-hardware 2014-04-20 00:53 so he'll never vote for you to become his governor :) 2014-04-20 01:10 it is actually strange how xkcd fits in a 3 days later 2014-04-20 01:10 you might think he#s on #maemo, lurking 2014-04-20 01:11 if he's not even a she, who knows 2014-04-20 01:15 ooh, >>Randall Munroe<< 2014-04-20 01:19 awesome: http://xkcd.com/249/ 2014-04-20 01:25 Luke-Jr has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 2014-04-20 01:25 Luke-Jr has joined #qi-hardware 2014-04-20 02:37 atommann has joined #qi-hardware 2014-04-20 06:26 DocScrutinizer05: btw, on VFAT +x is the default 2014-04-20 06:27 (unless you set a mount option) 2014-04-20 07:53 jekhor has joined #qi-hardware 2014-04-20 08:02 jekhor has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 2014-04-20 08:03 jekhor has joined #qi-hardware 2014-04-20 08:08 jekhor_ has joined #qi-hardware 2014-04-20 08:12 jekhor has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 2014-04-20 08:26 dandon has joined #qi-hardware 2014-04-20 08:45 pcercuei has joined #qi-hardware 2014-04-20 08:45 jekhor_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 2014-04-20 08:45 jekhor_ has joined #qi-hardware 2014-04-20 08:47 yep 2014-04-20 08:48 though it shouldn't, and users/owners are hard to specify 2014-04-20 08:51 sb0 has joined #qi-hardware 2014-04-20 09:33 rz2k has joined #qi-hardware 2014-04-20 09:38 jekhor_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 2014-04-20 09:38 jekhor_ has joined #qi-hardware 2014-04-20 10:17 dos1 has joined #qi-hardware 2014-04-20 10:45 dos1 has quit [Quit: Kabum!] 2014-04-20 10:46 dos1 has joined #qi-hardware 2014-04-20 11:20 jekhor_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 2014-04-20 11:20 nice: the cost of heartbleed http://www.wired.com/2014/04/cost-of-heartbleed/ 2014-04-20 11:21 jekhor has joined #qi-hardware 2014-04-20 11:22 i guess it would almost make sense to add "tags" to certificates, so that one could revoke a tag and with it all the certs that have it 2014-04-20 11:23 (of course, the few sites who weren't affected by heartbleed would complain bitterly if they had to renew their certs due to revocation-by-tag ...) 2014-04-20 11:30 and fireworks at samsung cause the worlds samsung devices to fail: http://www.engadget.com/2014/04/20/samsung-com-outage-sds-fire/ 2014-04-20 11:31 those ads for moving stuff into the cloud are almost writing themselves ;-) 2014-04-20 11:57 jekhor has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 2014-04-20 12:01 kyak has quit [] 2014-04-20 12:04 kyak has joined #qi-hardware 2014-04-20 12:04 kyak has quit [Changing host] 2014-04-20 12:04 kyak has joined #qi-hardware 2014-04-20 12:04 sb0 has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 2014-04-20 12:16 sb0 has joined #qi-hardware 2014-04-20 12:28 I just came up with a (life) risk assessment unit for missions (like to compare mars mission to jogging): LD50/99, LD for Lethal Duration. A jogger has probably 70(-age)/100(-age), means of a test group of joggers 50% are dead with 70 years old, 99% are dead with 100y 2014-04-20 12:32 a common metric is LD/, meaning that, after exposure to ingredient X, % of the test subject population have perished within 2014-04-20 12:33 a bit more meaningful than the ordinary LD50 that doesn't take into account time 2014-04-20 12:33 wpwrak: you'd make a good GLaDOW 2014-04-20 12:33 *GLaDOS 2014-04-20 12:33 "test subject population", hehe 2014-04-20 12:33 (-:C 2014-04-20 12:34 >>The big question left? Why a fire at one location seemed to have such a large affect on the company's devices and services<< 2014-04-20 12:34 bwahaha 2014-04-20 12:34 those guys are so damn pretty clueless 2014-04-20 12:34 about how android works 2014-04-20 12:34 "because we don't know how to design such a thing" 2014-04-20 12:34 or rather, how smartphone shit in general works 2014-04-20 12:35 and it gets better: the whole thing is completely useless: http://www.sodnpoo.com/posts.xml/spoofing_the_samsung_smart_tv_internet_check.xml 2014-04-20 12:35 or rahter, how sw licensing of non-FOSS stuff works today 2014-04-20 12:35 it's basically a "ping - can anyone hear me" ? doesn't carry any real information 2014-04-20 12:35 LOL 2014-04-20 12:36 i think it nicely demonstrates how product obsolescence will be implemented in the not too distant future 2014-04-20 12:36 bzzz false: *got* implemented during last few years already 2014-04-20 12:36 Nokia HARM did it 2014-04-20 12:37 i mean we're already getting stories of this and that cloud-based or internet-centric company folding and customers left with mere days to save whatever they can 2014-04-20 12:37 even Nokia fremantle maps already did it 2014-04-20 12:37 and seems even jolla does it 2014-04-20 12:38 sounds like a must-have feature for neo900 :) 2014-04-20 12:38 "no registration to our server, no authentication on app startup, ->no app starting up" 2014-04-20 12:39 "no software update of course" 2014-04-20 12:39 each time you unlock it, it pings joerg personally. if he's asleep (hah, fat chance for that) or otherwise unreachable, you're denied service :) 2014-04-20 12:39 hehe sounds like a dream. A nightmare 2014-04-20 12:39 for +me* 2014-04-20 12:39 i kinda wonder why the iGadgets don't do that. perhaps Jobs wasn't that much of a control freak after all ;-) 2014-04-20 12:41 smarter such schemes include a timer that allows using the app for a certain timespan without connectivity, after a successful authentication and "lease" from the company central scrutinizer server 2014-04-20 12:43 heaven no. they use that in DNS ! no no, we have to find some proprietary concept 2014-04-20 12:43 basically jobs been too early for that scheme to fly.that's why iOS changed from initial concept which been 100% web apps towards a 99% autonomous architecture that actually stores stuff locally and doesn't need 24/7 connectivity to work 2014-04-20 12:44 nowadays nobody is concerned about 24/7 connectivity (or the lack thereof) anymore. after all when you got no carrier signal for your phone, you also don't need your contacts and prolly neither your calendar or whatever 2014-04-20 12:46 so more and more system architectures depend on 24/7 connectivity. For sure stuff like maps apps do, to authenticate to the map server every time, even while the tiles are maybe already in local cache 2014-04-20 12:47 I bet siri and the similar crap on winphone is also an off-board aka web service 2014-04-20 12:47 aka client server architecture 2014-04-20 12:48 we're going back to the times of mainframes 2014-04-20 12:49 connectivity becoming a single point of failure 2014-04-20 12:49 when IMAP got invented? 2014-04-20 12:50 '86 2014-04-20 12:50 NSA and samsung are doing a good job at making people aware that this may not be such a great idea. of course, it'll take a while and more incidents to sink in 2014-04-20 12:51 whitequark: see, the idea lingers around forever 2014-04-20 12:51 or rather, for 25 years 2014-04-20 12:54 IMAP is not bad. it surely beats POP3 in a world where I may want to access my mail from more than a single device 2014-04-20 12:54 and you can always use it as if it was pop 2014-04-20 12:55 a good IMAP client would cache the data locally, like the android one does 2014-04-20 12:56 in times where literally nobody even in developer community had the "joy" to work on a terminal connected to a mainframe infra via a pay-per-minute dialup connection, and everybody enjoys 24/7-always-on-connectivity at flat rate, it will take a bit longer until things change for the better again. right now they are changing for the worse, at ever increasing speed 2014-04-20 12:56 wpwrak: (us like POP) that's astonishingly difficult and cumbersome 2014-04-20 12:57 use* 2014-04-20 12:57 pointless in the first place 2014-04-20 12:57 I use IMAP because I *want* my mail to be stored remotely 2014-04-20 12:57 yeah, pointless as long as your mail server offer proper POP3 2014-04-20 12:57 I don't have a desktop, and every device I have on myself, i.e. every device I have, is expendable 2014-04-20 12:58 alas some server admins decide to deliberately not offer POP 2014-04-20 12:59 in POP I can opt for "leave mail on server" and "delete mail on server after expiry of guard period" 2014-04-20 13:01 in IMAP moving a mail from IMAP dir to a local dir on one server really creates a cascade of funny events 2014-04-20 13:01 DocScrutinizer05: i remember the modem days very well :) even built my own 300 bps acoustic coupler. used first with the VC-20 (VIC-20), then used the VC-20 as "gateway" to my CPC-464. the CPC had lots of memory and a good resolution, while the VC-20 had a UART ... 2014-04-20 13:01 s/server/client 2014-04-20 13:01 DocScrutinizer05 meant: "in IMAP moving a mail from IMAP dir to a local dir on one client really creates a cascade of funny events" 2014-04-20 13:04 fetchmail handles imap just fine. that's how i get all my mails. (and i keep a read-only copy of everything on the server) 2014-04-20 13:07 err wut? 2014-04-20 13:07 how would you do that for the average web.de or gmx.net server ? 2014-04-20 13:08 the latest when I have to keep my /trash/SAPM/ dir on the IMAP server and local spamassassin in cooperation with the mail client has to upload mails to that SPAM dir, I lose my humor with IMAP 2014-04-20 13:13 then there are MLs. I got ML: business, f, g, h, private. I got three mail clients on 3 device. client 1 has business, f,g, h in 4 dirs, client 2 has all 5 in separate dirs, client 3 has f,g,h,private all in one common ML dir 2014-04-20 13:13 well, i have my own server. my server, my rules :) 2014-04-20 13:14 real fun with IMAP 2014-04-20 13:15 and yes, if you need to share mails between devices, imap (and leaving them on the server) is one of the few choices you have 2014-04-20 13:15 nah, POP3 and leaving them on the server is the better choice 2014-04-20 13:16 does POP3 even have folders? 2014-04-20 13:17 leaving them on the server untl either the "slowest" of your clinets downloaded them, or alternatively exoire them after maybe 2 weeks or somesuch 2014-04-20 13:17 whitequark: huh? 2014-04-20 13:17 DocScrutinizer05: I get a new client, do I also need to manually organize all my mail on it? 2014-04-20 13:18 whitequark: luckily it doesn't, it has no such idiotic concept of it's-like-webdav-but-not-really 2014-04-20 13:18 so yes 2014-04-20 13:18 I can't classify your system as anything but "incredibly moronic" 2014-04-20 13:18 so no*. anyway 2014-04-20 13:18 it's unusable 2014-04-20 13:19 whatever it is for you, for me it works way better than any fucking imap forcing me to have identical dir structures on all my clients 2014-04-20 13:19 "OMG that's unbearable, I have to *choose* what to do" 2014-04-20 13:20 exactly 2014-04-20 13:20 slavery is freedom :) 2014-04-20 13:20 too much pointless work. sure, if you like bureaucracy and useless shuffling of documents, it will probably fit well 2014-04-20 13:20 how about you two guys found a club "slaves of IMAP"? 2014-04-20 13:22 IMAP for sure is great when you wanna waer another "smart"phone of the day with the right color, every day of the week, and still all shall look identical by their UX 2014-04-20 13:23 I defitely need a different mail config on my smartphone than on my laptop than on my workstation 2014-04-20 13:23 definitely* 2014-04-20 13:24 my use of imap comes from openmoko. anyway, it doesn't matter to fetchmail. all i want are my mails :) 2014-04-20 13:25 I know, that's incredibly moronic, since ... who's going to distinguish between work and private nowadays. Particularly on their IT 2014-04-20 13:25 2014-04-20 13:26 (another one, so i really get rid of this huge amount) 2014-04-20 13:27 wpwrak: if I had only one client (or MTA) then I wouln't even think about IMAP, it's just another protocol to transfer mail then. But then, why would I need IMAP then, at all? 2014-04-20 13:30 wpwrak: and yes, it's been the damn OM server that never did (and doesn't) offer POP3, and it's the only account where I have to mess around with this friggin IMAP 2014-04-20 13:32 and the only account that gave me like half a dozen mega disasters during the years I'm using it, from all mails getting deleted from server thanks to an oppsie on one braindamaged client, to all mails which stay on server probably getting leaked to the hacker who rooted the box 2014-04-20 13:33 no hacker ever rooted any of my local machines, neither any of my exposed boxes (though those don't hold any mails except maybe those of last 10 min) 2014-04-20 13:35 and whn somebody now says "you should accept encrypted mail only, so you don't care when it gets stolen from the IMAP server which you can't control or administrate" then I gonna wake up my killer bat army and send them out to him as soon as sun sets 2014-04-20 13:36 nah, there's a simpler way 2014-04-20 13:36 don't use mail, yeah 2014-04-20 13:36 I never agree to *collect* my mail from anyone else's server; I just set up a redirect from there to a single point that I own 2014-04-20 13:37 sure, create a single point of failure. Nicely defeats the purpose of having multiple accounts 2014-04-20 13:38 and guess what, OM mailserver didn't even offer mail forwarding 2014-04-20 13:38 it's a single point where I set up filters *once*, set up backups *once*, and point all my clients to it *once* 2014-04-20 13:38 and the downtime though the last three years was prolly lower than that of GMail 2014-04-20 13:39 sorry, can't help but notice you don't get it 2014-04-20 13:40 I also have a single point of setting up my filters: the clinet to which the filters apply 2014-04-20 13:41 whitequark: where's the constant struggle to fill your life with purpose ? and see, you can't even get a good rant out of it ! look at DocScrutinizer05, he's been going on about this for an hours or two. that's how the experts do it :) 2014-04-20 13:41 I however can ask wpwrak to send the mail to my web.de account when OM once more cocks up or his account is messed up and doesn't send stuff to OM, or whatever the problem 2014-04-20 13:41 lol 2014-04-20 13:42 well, an hour is a mild punishment for "moronic" 2014-04-20 13:42 DocScrutinizer05: you also don't get it, my mailserver is infrastructure that *I* control 2014-04-20 13:43 and in the unlikely case that Linode fails, it has daily backups to a different country, continent and company 2014-04-20 13:43 usually I won't stop until the other part admits that their mental capacity is insufficient to judge which of my actions are moronic 2014-04-20 13:43 which can be restored in under a hour 2014-04-20 13:44 whitequark: I well got that, but that tells me what? to move my web.de account to your server. or what? 2014-04-20 13:44 to your own, I guess 2014-04-20 13:45 well, than thanks for this moronic suggestion, since I can't guarantee the uptime of any such server either 2014-04-20 13:45 then* 2014-04-20 13:45 and I can't move my web.de account to somewhere else, since... well I bet you can imagine why 2014-04-20 13:46 if not, do w a `whois web.de` 2014-04-20 13:46 it reduces the possible range of problems to two: 1. server went down entirely, 2. you broke it. from... (amount of accounts × amount of idiotic decisions owners of servers behind those accounts make) 2014-04-20 13:47 aha 2014-04-20 13:47 I don't think I touched my mail config in four years or so. that deals with point 2. 2014-04-20 13:47 this finally gave away that you don't get it 2014-04-20 13:49 of course a web.de -> my_client is much less stable and more prone to downtimes for whatever reason than a web.de->my_MX_server->my_client 2014-04-20 13:49 2014-04-20 13:50 since it seems that's needed to not let a chance somebody thinks this been serious 2014-04-20 13:51 and you call my management "moronic"?? 2014-04-20 13:51 in my case, the server is anything but forwarder. it is an aggregator 2014-04-20 13:51 once I have mail there, I know that I will be able to access it no matter what web.de decides to do with their boxes tomorrow 2014-04-20 13:51 and I will be able to access it even if I get robbed of every single device I have 2014-04-20 13:52 so what? what do you think I know about +my* mail, sitting comfortably local on my HDD I can see down there? 2014-04-20 13:52 until said HDD chokes and dies 2014-04-20 13:52 I don't get robbed 2014-04-20 13:52 *shrug* 2014-04-20 13:52 lol, life advice by DocScrutinizer05. "-- how to get rich? -- start by not being poor" 2014-04-20 13:53 thanks for the talk, had a lot of laughs! no for something more meaningful, like watching TV 2014-04-20 13:53 hmm, ubuntu stopped launching ntpd. how quaint. so i've been living a few minutes in the past for the last weeks. 2014-04-20 13:53 wpwrak: why do you even *use* that 2014-04-20 13:53 because i like to have accurate time ? 2014-04-20 13:53 do you feel like not enough of your searches go to google and now voluntarily send even more to amazon? ;) 2014-04-20 13:53 no, ubuntu 2014-04-20 13:55 oh, it's reasonably painless to use. grew tires of days of compilation of gentoo, and eventually find that, if i didn't upgrade often enough, the chain would be broken and my old systems wuold become completely un-upgradeable 2014-04-20 13:55 why not plain debian? 2014-04-20 13:55 and what would go to amazon ? 2014-04-20 13:55 (robbed) your problem when you rely on a remote box for your sole means of "data security". I use proper *local* and *remote* backup schemes for that, I only seen incidences so far with damn IMAP and damn OM server 2014-04-20 13:56 at least back then debian didn't have so much stuff and what they had was often ancient 2014-04-20 13:56 wpwrak: I find debian testing reasonably stable and up-to-date 2014-04-20 13:56 can't really recall the last time they broke something for me 2014-04-20 13:57 well, one of these days ubuntu will pass my pain threshold. but i'm not all that eager anymore to migrate. it does get a little boring after the first dozen times ... 2014-04-20 13:57 atommann has quit [Quit: Leaving] 2014-04-20 13:59 well, half a dozen. i think my sequence was: linus boot+root -> MCL -> SLS -> Slackware -> Red Hat (for a long time) -> (tried Debian on some systems) -> Gentoo (for a long time) -> Ubuntu (for a long time) 2014-04-20 13:59 nicksydney has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 2014-04-20 13:59 gentoo vs buntkuh, seems ther are at least a *few* quite reasonable alternatives in between 2014-04-20 13:59 nicksydney has joined #qi-hardware 2014-04-20 14:00 sb0 has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 2014-04-20 14:01 i guess after the mail rant we'll now get the distro tantrum ... 2014-04-20 14:01 btw to poll OM mailserver from my own box, i had to move account credentials for logging in to a *commercial* mission-critical infra to a box exposed to the net. I guess doing so would be enough of a reason to get fired instantly 2014-04-20 14:03 while OM infra isn't mission critical anymore, due to lack of mission, it been when I got thta account 2014-04-20 14:03 that* 2014-04-20 14:04 * DocScrutinizer05 just found a good new way to test qualification of applicants for a sysop position 2014-04-20 14:09 [commit] Paul Cercueil: Allow to map actions to keyboard keys and joystick keys at the same time (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/gmenu2x/5fa8919 2014-04-20 14:10 (gentoo vs buntkuh) I'm far from suggesting opensuse (though I think it's a great distro). There are others too, like fedora, centOS, a 1 billion users on debian... 2014-04-20 14:13 sb0 has joined #qi-hardware 2014-04-20 14:16 sb0 has quit [Client Quit] 2014-04-20 14:20 sb0__ has joined #qi-hardware 2014-04-20 14:29 sb0__ has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 2014-04-20 14:40 uwe_ has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 2014-04-20 14:41 uwe_ has joined #qi-hardware 2014-04-20 15:05 nicksydney has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 2014-04-20 15:06 nicksydney has joined #qi-hardware 2014-04-20 15:29 porchao has joined #qi-hardware 2014-04-20 15:31 porchaso0 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 2014-04-20 15:51 viric has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 2014-04-20 15:58 viric has joined #qi-hardware 2014-04-20 16:46 dandon has quit [Quit: .] 2014-04-20 16:54 sb0 has joined #qi-hardware 2014-04-20 18:09 dandon has joined #qi-hardware 2014-04-20 18:22 Codora has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 2014-04-20 18:23 Codora has joined #qi-hardware 2014-04-20 18:52 lol, xkcd also states "fav astronomical object: plejades" - same here 2014-04-20 19:04 N24 TV (or the station producing this "report") goes nuts now: they not only mute "fucking" with a beep, they actually, beliefe it or not, blurr the picture to hide the mouth of the one saying it 2014-04-20 19:04 believe* 2014-04-20 19:05 only the small section of picture to cover the complete mouth 2014-04-20 19:06 that's *beeep* insane. Why the *beep* don't they simply cut out those 300ms completely? 2014-04-20 19:06 *beep*ots 2014-04-20 19:10 sorry, only trailer http://www.n24.de/n24/Mediathek/Dokumentationen/d/2662996/rettung-in-letzter-sekunde.html 2014-04-20 19:14 I think it's actually been that guy roundabout in middle of the trailer for 0.5s, who also does the bat suit thing and said sth like "it's fucking awesome" (not in the trailer) 2014-04-20 19:16 the two vultures taking down the parachuter are incredible 2014-04-20 19:22 so vultures do hunt :) 2014-04-20 19:30 obviously, only this time it been a kamikaze hunt 2014-04-20 19:31 the bird got bondaged in the strings of the parachute and went down togehter with the guy 2014-04-20 19:31 dang, tied? 2014-04-20 19:32 entangled 2014-04-20 19:32 ah, vulture failing to keep work (hunting) and pleasure (bondage) apart :) 2014-04-20 19:36 ;-) 2014-04-20 19:38 vulture is a pretty strange word, to me at least. And not only becuase it looks like a typo of culture 2014-04-20 19:38 it also sounds feminine case 2014-04-20 19:39 and kinda like one of those "only plural exists" words like fish or sheep 2014-04-20 19:44 but there's "vultures" which doesn't look that strange anymore, for a word 2014-04-20 19:44 hmm, seems to come from latin, "vultur". basically unmodified. 2014-04-20 19:45 does this have a "meanig"? 2014-04-20 19:45 meaning even 2014-04-20 19:46 most words don't, beyond their own meaning, Some names however actually mean something 2014-04-20 19:46 miller for example 2014-04-20 19:47 or kindergarden 2014-04-20 19:48 serpentine 2014-04-20 19:55 the origin seems to be unclear: http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=vulture 2014-04-20 19:57 wow >>A group of vultures is called a wake, committee, venue, kettle, or volt.<< 2014-04-20 19:57 DocScrutinizer05: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_collective_nouns_in_English 2014-04-20 19:57 this is *seriously* crazy 2014-04-20 19:57 "a shrewdness of apes" 2014-04-20 19:58 "a draught of butlers" 2014-04-20 19:58 "a glaring of cats" 2014-04-20 19:58 "an army of frogs" 2014-04-20 19:59 "an array (sic!!) of hedgehogs" 2014-04-20 19:59 "a bloat of hippopotamuses" 2014-04-20 19:59 (incidentally, I now know how to call systemd) 2014-04-20 20:00 "a stud of mares" this doesn't even make sense 2014-04-20 20:00 "a cartload of monkeys" 2014-04-20 20:00 a fucking cartload, who invents those names?! 2014-04-20 20:00 "a parliament of owls" 2014-04-20 20:00 arielenter has joined #qi-hardware 2014-04-20 20:02 "a congregation of alligators" sounds dignified :) 2014-04-20 20:02 "a herd of asses" well, less so :) 2014-04-20 20:03 there should be "a list of butterflies" 2014-04-20 20:03 or "a balanced binary tree of gryllotalpas" 2014-04-20 20:04 i think the general form is " s" 2014-04-20 20:05 or where no adjective is available, some attribute 2014-04-20 20:06 how often do you see monkeys in cartloads? 2014-04-20 20:06 or owls in parliament? 2014-04-20 20:09 "a chatter of IRCers", "a rant of DocScrutinizers", "a drunk of russians", "a fraud of banksters", etc. 2014-04-20 20:09 well, some may have weirder origins :) 2014-04-20 20:19 jekhor has joined #qi-hardware 2014-04-20 20:36 hmm? 2014-04-20 20:46 wtf http://www.digikey.com/product-search/en?pv316=24&FV=fff40019%2Cfff800ae&k=molex+8867&mnonly=0&newproducts=0&ColumnSort=0&page=1&quantity=0&ptm=0&fid=0&pageSize=25 2014-04-20 20:46 same kind of shitty pricing at mouser 2014-04-20 20:46 where can I find ribbon cables?!? 2014-04-20 20:48 are you sure about the 100 mil pitch ? 2014-04-20 20:48 yes 2014-04-20 20:48 the normal ribbon cables are 50 mil 2014-04-20 20:49 hmm 2014-04-20 20:49 (normal) IDE and such 2014-04-20 20:49 oh fuck, 2014-04-20 20:50 :(((((((((((((((((((((((((( 2014-04-20 20:50 hmm ? 2014-04-20 20:51 well, mixxeo boards have 2.54mm headers ... 2014-04-20 20:51 100 mil dual (2xN configuration) headers use 50 mil cable ... 2014-04-20 20:52 if you have 1xN, you can still use a 2xN connector. it'll hang a bit in the air, though 2014-04-20 20:52 it's 2x10 2.54mm 2014-04-20 20:52 ah, so it's good 2014-04-20 20:52 or you do it the traditional way and do the wiring manually (i.e., spread out the ribbon at the end) 2014-04-20 20:52 so, no problem :) 2014-04-20 20:53 good that they didn't have the 100 mil cable at a less obscene price ;-) 2014-04-20 20:54 the whole rolls are still pricy at digi-key, but they also have them as "value added item", cut to more reasonable sizes 2014-04-20 20:55 ah, yes, the *connector* pitch is 2.54mm on a more reasonably priced cable. it's kinda confusing they say "Pitch - Mating Interface 1.27mm" in the doc 2014-04-20 20:55 I guess they mean the cable's mating interface 2014-04-20 20:56 rz2k has quit [] 2014-04-20 20:56 "connector pitch" ? that sounds like a weird parameter :) 2014-04-20 20:57 especially if it's different from the cable's pitch :) 2014-04-20 20:58 hmm? 2014-04-20 20:59 problems with usual IDE connector type post arrays? 2014-04-20 20:59 cable data sheet apparently specifying properties of the "far" side of the connector. not really the cable's business ... 2014-04-20 20:59 naw, i think he was just confused about the parameters 2014-04-20 21:00 btw you can use 50mil for the 100mil single row post connectors, just every second cable unused 2014-04-20 21:00 wire, rather 2014-04-20 21:01 yes, that's what i proposed in case he had 1xN header. but he has 2xN, so no problem 2014-04-20 21:01 I'm buying complete cable assemblies - I don't have the tools for IDC, and they're pricy 2014-04-20 21:02 and the docs of the assemblies mention the cable (wire) pitch, not the connector pitch, which is why I was confused 2014-04-20 21:02 of course, the usual approach for 1xN is to use nible chinese fingers to make the cable ... 2014-04-20 21:02 niMble 2014-04-20 21:02 (or a clumsy western emulation thereof) 2014-04-20 21:04 sb0: for the ribbon cable connectors where you just squeeze the top bar onto the body, you don't really need special tools. just anything reasonably hard and flat will do 2014-04-20 21:04 I've seen people doing that, and the resulting cables weren't reliable 2014-04-20 21:05 advantage over assemblies is that you can pick the cable size you want and don't need to stock a gazillion of lengths and widths 2014-04-20 21:06 one of these people has even been a customer and I had to deal with serial ports that mysteriously stopped working etc. :) 2014-04-20 21:06 (not reliable) hmm, never had a problem. well, not sure how often it use the proper tool and how often i'm too lazy to look for it 2014-04-20 21:06 ah, nice billable hours :) 2014-04-20 21:07 #s/often it/often i/ 2014-04-20 21:11 nope, spreading the cable into a "delta" actually isn't the best idea. it causes asymmetries and thus signal propagation delay skew 2014-04-20 21:11 DocScrutinizer05, do those cables work well for LVDS by the way? 2014-04-20 21:11 which cables? 2014-04-20 21:12 ribbon IDC 50mil cable pitch 2014-04-20 21:12 why not 2014-04-20 21:12 should work 2014-04-20 21:12 unless you have tuned impedance, in which case the impedance of cable might not match 2014-04-20 21:12 well, idk about the characteristic impedance of a pair of wires on this cable 2014-04-20 21:13 (delta) usually not a concern at the speeds where you do that 2014-04-20 21:13 but when the signal is on a post conector, you could bet on the 50mil cable being just fine for connecting it 2014-04-20 21:13 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ribbon_cable#Impedance 2014-04-20 21:14 DocScrutinizer05: caveat - the one asking now about the cable impedance is also the one who put the connector into the design :) 2014-04-20 21:15 oooh 2014-04-20 21:15 wikipedia is fun: "Knowledge of the impedance is one step toward understanding and control of interference that may be caused by ribbon cables." 2014-04-20 21:15 such subtle sarcasm :) 2014-04-20 21:15 then you should have asked that question earlier in design process ;-) 2014-04-20 21:16 (impedance) the cable data sheet generally has such characteristics, too 2014-04-20 21:16 sure, should 2014-04-20 21:17 e.g., this one is pretty comprehensive: http://multimedia.3m.com/mws/mediawebserver?66666UuZjcFSLXTt4Xf6NXF6EVuQEcuZgVs6EVs6E666666-- 2014-04-20 21:17 generally an impedance mismatch isn't much of an issue when you take it into account 2014-04-20 21:17 well, IDE seems to reach decent speeds with those connectors :) 2014-04-20 21:18 I guess they are fine up to maybe 20 or 50 MHz 2014-04-20 21:18 but don't quote me on that 2014-04-20 21:19 I only have 27Mbps/pin (and I can halve that with more connectors) over 10cm 2014-04-20 21:19 usually when you got a LVDS input somewhere, it already gives decent hints on caling you may use on it 2014-04-20 21:19 I might not even need LVDS or other fancy stuff 2014-04-20 21:20 cabling+ 2014-04-20 21:20 one end is FPGA, which has LVDS configurable on all IOs 2014-04-20 21:20 other end is a fancy OLED display module, which does not have LVDS inputs, but I have the option of adding a LVDS receiver on its board 2014-04-20 21:21 the datasheet should give recommendations, under "electrical recommended operation conditions" 2014-04-20 21:22 hmm, large OLED ? 'cause the smaller ones don't really need high data rates 2014-04-20 21:23 320*480 24bpp 60fps 2014-04-20 21:23 it's kinda fancy 2014-04-20 21:23 ah, okay. big one :) 2014-04-20 21:24 indeed. almost the sort they use in cell phones 2014-04-20 21:24 will this one have live video monitor mode ? 2014-04-20 21:24 awesome! >> Voltage Rating: USA: 300V Canada: 300V EU: <50V<< 2014-04-20 21:24 yes 2014-04-20 21:25 that's what I plan on using it for 2014-04-20 21:25 kewl :) 2014-04-20 21:25 after I'm out of mechanical design hell 2014-04-20 21:25 :\ 2014-04-20 21:25 * sb0 hates mech design so much now 2014-04-20 21:25 ah yes, ME, always fun :) 2014-04-20 21:25 it's art 2014-04-20 21:26 it's a goddamn frustrating pain in the ass 2014-04-20 21:26 standard parts 1) are ugly 2) never fit together 2014-04-20 21:26 but they have the advantage of being just expensive 2014-04-20 21:26 not horribly expensive 2014-04-20 21:27 (and by "standard", I mean "stocked somewhere" - dual source is a luxury here) 2014-04-20 21:27 print it! ;-) 2014-04-20 21:28 mill it ! :) 2014-04-20 21:28 or just dunk the whole thing in silicone ;-) 2014-04-20 21:32 or encase it in a resin. that could actually work :) 2014-04-20 21:33 I'm going to have to make 3 PCBs, one for the screen, plus one for each group of buttons, and connect the pots with flying wire 2014-04-20 21:33 just because all those stupid parts can't have compatible heights 2014-04-20 21:33 if you apply some anti-adhesive to the PCB, you may even be able to remove the resin by cutting it at the height of the PCB 2014-04-20 21:33 and I fucking hate that 2014-04-20 21:34 pick the same family of connectors for everything ? 2014-04-20 21:34 ah, you mean height if things above PCB 2014-04-20 21:34 #s/if/of/ 2014-04-20 21:34 I need: buttons, rotary encoder with pushbutton, slide potentiometer, rotary potentiometers, screen 2014-04-20 21:35 and NOTHING is compatible 2014-04-20 21:35 you could get parts designed for panel mounting 2014-04-20 21:35 of course, this merely shifts the problem 2014-04-20 21:36 but you can at least mount them in a very solid way 2014-04-20 21:36 e.g. after a lot of search, I could find a rotary encoder and a rotary pot with the same shaft and bushing configuration 2014-04-20 21:37 but OF COURSE, they HAVE to use different heights for their bodies (i.e. distance between the shaft/bushing and the PCB) 2014-04-20 21:37 and that's just for 2 parts, add buttons, screen, slide potentiometer and you're on the way to ME hell 2014-04-20 21:38 normal :-D 2014-04-20 21:38 well, as i said, you can panel-mount. that's designed to solve precisely this sort of problem 2014-04-20 21:38 of course, attaching the mainboard, HDMI/DVI connectors, etc. is again another story ... 2014-04-20 21:38 yeah that's what I'm going to do 2014-04-20 21:39 it's interesting that in their product brochures button manufacturers always show panels with only one type of button :-) 2014-04-20 21:39 or if you feel adventurous, you can mix flexible circuit with PCB and have a suitable support structure for the little PCBs. 2014-04-20 21:39 hehe ;-) 2014-04-20 21:39 or you do what they did in ancient times, when the push-pull powerbutton of Hameg scope been at front panel but the actual switch at rear panel 2014-04-20 21:39 but then I have to build axes of suitable lengths 2014-04-20 21:40 more messy mechanics 2014-04-20 21:40 and yes 2014-04-20 21:40 I don't have so much space in the case anyway 2014-04-20 21:40 note that there's only ONE way of doing it for less than 500€ per raw case, and that's using an already made diecast aluminum enclosure 2014-04-20 21:40 s/at rear/close to rear/ 2014-04-20 21:40 DocScrutinizer05 meant: "or you do what they did in ancient times, when the push-pull powerbutton of Hameg scope been at front panel but the actual switch close to rear panel" 2014-04-20 21:40 and the choice is extremely limited there 2014-04-20 21:41 (additionally those cases have surface finish problems) 2014-04-20 21:41 it's all a question of volume :) 2014-04-20 21:41 and sets the height of the device to a 63mm that costs a fortune to be changed 2014-04-20 21:41 jekhor has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 2014-04-20 21:41 I HATE MECHANICAL ENGINERING!!! 2014-04-20 21:41 i find premade cases too inflexible 2014-04-20 21:42 why not mill the stuff out of acrylic ? that may be cheaper in the end. you can buy a lot of machine-hours for EUR 500 ... 2014-04-20 21:43 acrylic doesn't look good and is fragile 2014-04-20 21:43 if you need Al for strength, use plates or simple profiles 2014-04-20 21:43 I'm using this right now 2014-04-20 21:43 http://www.hammondmfg.com/jpeg/1590F_IB.jpg 2014-04-20 21:43 and mill it 2014-04-20 21:43 of course, you will not have missed the idiotic screw in the middle 2014-04-20 21:44 looks pretty bomb-proof ;-) 2014-04-20 21:44 which is going to bump into any reasonably placed connector in any design 2014-04-20 21:44 so of course I'm going to have to mill that crap away 2014-04-20 21:44 but it's the least shitty I've found that doesn't cost 50k€ 2014-04-20 21:44 screw in the middle ? i see 8 holes and 6 screws ... 2014-04-20 21:45 the screw in the middle of each side 2014-04-20 21:45 where you always want to put a connector ... 2014-04-20 21:45 use smaller connectors :) 2014-04-20 21:45 centered connectors are boring anyway 2014-04-20 21:46 how painful will be milling into the sides ? that's kinda difficult with the simpler type of mills 2014-04-20 21:47 oh, tell me about it... 2014-04-20 21:47 going 4-5 axis ? :) 2014-04-20 21:48 note that the side of the case is sligthly angled, too 2014-04-20 21:48 well, you could also etch the critter 2014-04-20 21:48 I'd going to ask details like "what device is this meant to become, what mounting and environmental conditions, which number of builds, and so on... but I feel like having a walk to burger king 2014-04-20 21:48 (angled) ah, didn't notice. more fun for the mill :) 2014-04-20 21:48 yeah, right? 2014-04-20 21:49 that can however looks like made for RF, or automotive 2014-04-20 21:49 they HAD to do that 2014-04-20 21:49 and that stupid screw in the middle 2014-04-20 21:49 and with automotive I mean engine controller, mounted next to engine 2014-04-20 21:50 so have you found a shop that will mill it for you ? or do you now have a nice industrial-grade mill in your living room ? :) 2014-04-20 21:50 yeah, I found a shop 2014-04-20 21:51 which was a bit of fun, too 2014-04-20 21:52 for an exposed visible case it looks terribly ugly 2014-04-20 21:52 yeah, it needs some surface finish 2014-04-20 21:52 even then 2014-04-20 21:53 I guess there's a reason why you don't go for dirt cheap simple double U steel case? 2014-04-20 21:54 IP67? 2014-04-20 21:54 or RF-shielding to the max 2014-04-20 21:54 this case doesn't look like it was made for any other purpose or usecase 2014-04-20 21:54 hm, what's wrong besides the surface finish? 2014-04-20 21:55 well, you named a few points already 2014-04-20 21:55 but nothing about the look 2014-04-20 21:56 DocScrutinizer05: double-U stell is even more fun to mill ... 2014-04-20 21:56 arielenter has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 2014-04-20 21:56 I can't comment for the look, it looks assuringly sturdy... for a thyristor ignition in your car 2014-04-20 21:56 stEEl 2014-04-20 21:56 wpwrak: depends 2014-04-20 21:57 you can always mount it at edge of mill desk, with the huge part of it downwards below the table 2014-04-20 21:57 well, the set of mills that can do steel is a subset of the set of mills that can do Al :) 2014-04-20 21:57 I've tried painting one, and it doesn't look like something to be mounted next to a car engine anymore 2014-04-20 21:57 the get a double U alu case ;-P 2014-04-20 21:58 hmm, in many case, the part that goes below would hit something 2014-04-20 21:58 of course, that paint doesn't stick well and scratches etc. 2014-04-20 21:58 what paint did you use ? 2014-04-20 21:58 what's this? alu? painting alu is an art 2014-04-20 21:58 just spray paint 2014-04-20 21:58 tamiya color 2014-04-20 21:59 and yes it wasn't painted right 2014-04-20 21:59 I was just trying out how it would look like with a different surface 2014-04-20 21:59 and it looks fine 2014-04-20 21:59 acrylic. yeah, that would explain the scratching :) 2014-04-20 21:59 yeah 2014-04-20 21:59 hammond mfg also have a powder coated black version 2014-04-20 22:00 haven't gotten my hands on one of them yet 2014-04-20 22:00 for that sort of thing, you'll probably want epoxy paint. also available as aerosol. (or airbrush it) 2014-04-20 22:00 powder coating is for sure better than painting 2014-04-20 22:00 would be nice if it looked acceptably good, so I wouldn't have to deal with powder coating it myself 2014-04-20 22:00 in addition to all the other expensive and painful mech problems in this project 2014-04-20 22:00 the powder coating applied before the milling may not survive the latter too well 2014-04-20 22:01 according to hammond it does 2014-04-20 22:01 also hammond can do the milling, so it becomes their problem :-) 2014-04-20 22:01 meh, PE protective film 2014-04-20 22:01 (one-stop shopping) neat :) 2014-04-20 22:02 also it'll be somehow satisfying to make them mill away their stupid center screw 2014-04-20 22:03 you'll still have to plug the hole with something ... 2014-04-20 22:03 honestly, those cases are a PITA, I seen them and dealt with them. E.G they often lack any mounting support inside 2014-04-20 22:03 I'll just use screws + spacers on the bottom to attach the PCB 2014-04-20 22:04 that's actually not too hard, for once 2014-04-20 22:05 how about an acrylic "sandwich" with Al caps ? that may also look pretty nice, easier to mill, and probably sufficiently solid 2014-04-20 22:05 so you have screws going though the bottom and then you put spacers over them from the other side and then place the PCB on those screws inside that "pool" and then put nuts on the screw, also inside the pool, while holding the 4(?) screws from the outside so the don't fall out? 2014-04-20 22:05 like the M1 case but with aluminum on top/bottom? 2014-04-20 22:06 good luck! 2014-04-20 22:06 * DocScrutinizer05 already prepares the mdical emergency packet to send to sb0 2014-04-20 22:06 DocScrutinizer05, the cover is the bottom 2014-04-20 22:06 no, like a cigarette box with Al (with a bit of a sidewall) on the small sides 2014-04-20 22:06 then good luck mounting all your front panel components 2014-04-20 22:07 attach PCB to cover with screws and spacers, and mount cover with PCB on it 2014-04-20 22:07 after the front panels components are attached of course 2014-04-20 22:08 so you'd have to find suitable Al caps, but the rest would be relatively simple. you'd still need a 4D mill, or a total of >= 3 acrylic pieces for the "sandwich" 2014-04-20 22:08 oh and btw, the spacers are threaded 2014-04-20 22:08 so they hold with just the screw 2014-04-20 22:08 and the front panel PCB attaches to the main PCB with the ribbon cable I mentioned earlier 2014-04-20 22:09 my first idea was to stack it directly, but it's even more mechanical hell, e.g. because all the "standard" parts are incompatible as I said 2014-04-20 22:11 well, up to you. I get headache seeing such stuff again. Last time I had to touch a similar design to repair sth, I swore to never again go near any of those 2014-04-20 22:11 did you have a look into the fadefox critter ? that device has a ton of different elements 2014-04-20 22:12 I was planning to... 2014-04-20 22:12 what's spritzdruckguss in english? Just to let you kmow what I rather don't want to touch again 2014-04-20 22:13 financial disaster? 2014-04-20 22:13 high pressure die casting 2014-04-20 22:13 yeah, alternative translation 2014-04-20 22:14 that case is exactly that 2014-04-20 22:15 what do you recommend then? 2014-04-20 22:15 and prolly cost an arm and a leg 2014-04-20 22:15 injection molding is apparently the more common term 2014-04-20 22:15 whitequark: right 2014-04-20 22:16 * DocScrutinizer05 blames ding 2014-04-20 22:16 die casting doesn't have to be super-expensive. you can also make die from Al. they last only for about 1000 uses, but that's probably good enough to get started 2014-04-20 22:16 I mean, there are like a zillion relatively cheap and often convenient cases available 2014-04-20 22:18 the company from which i bought my mill made little demo pieces of translucent plastic that produced a very good-looking image of Carlos Gardel when held against the light 2014-04-20 22:18 with the holes that I want? 2014-04-20 22:18 I doubt it 2014-04-20 22:18 http://www.conrad.de/ce/de/Search.html;jsessionid=7476732B7BA807B20A7B8A9C03F63162.ASTPCEN18?search=leergehaeuse 2014-04-20 22:18 they said the milled the die (one piece) themselves. then the production cost something like USD 1000 (not entirely sure about the price, but in any case it was pretty low) 2014-04-20 22:19 but then should any pot etc. change for any reason (eg going out of stock) I have to make a new mold 2014-04-20 22:20 not to mention mistakes 2014-04-20 22:20 you can probably make samples at home, e.g., with wax. when things fit, you move to the fab with plastics 2014-04-20 22:21 and yes, if your geometry changes, the tweaking begins 2014-04-20 22:21 but then, if you've been reasonably careful with your choice of components, that shouldn't happen all that often 2014-04-20 22:22 DocScrutinizer05: this one looks promising: http://www.conrad.de/ce/de/product/750856/ABUS-Leergehaeuse-fuer-Alarmsirene-oder-Blitzleuchte-SG3210;jsessionid=7476732B7BA807B20A7B8A9C03F63162.ASTPCEN18?ref=searchDetail 2014-04-20 22:22 haha 2014-04-20 22:23 DocScrutinizer05, so what exactly is wrong with the hammond die-cast aluminum enclosure, that another off-the-shelf case would solve better? 2014-04-20 22:24 (and tweaking can just mean to manually modify a case, e.g., add spacer material or dremel off something. doesn't have to be too fancy.) 2014-04-20 22:24 it's just clumsy to handle, starts with the middle screw that is only there for RF/IP67 2014-04-20 22:24 that can be milled away 2014-04-20 22:25 (and spacer material itself can have a complex structure) 2014-04-20 22:25 then the bulges 2014-04-20 22:25 what bulges? inside? 2014-04-20 22:25 they don't bump into anything (except the middle one), my PCB is smaller than the case 2014-04-20 22:25 then it#s often impossible to mount stuff to the case, into that cup 2014-04-20 22:26 the middle screw can probably stay. you can always cut the column after the screw. since you'll have a rather flexible mill at hand anyway .. 2014-04-20 22:26 sometimes it even breaks on closing the screws 2014-04-20 22:26 those cases break on closing the screws? 2014-04-20 22:26 I had some that did 2014-04-20 22:27 when DocScrutinizer05 forgot to close the mercury bottle ... ;-) 2014-04-20 22:27 it's 'guss' 2014-04-20 22:27 no? 2014-04-20 22:27 and yes, not all Al are identical. there are fairly brittle alloys 2014-04-20 22:27 mutch too hard and brittle 2014-04-20 22:27 i suppose you just have to trust them that they did their part properly 2014-04-20 22:28 much* 2014-04-20 22:28 that's hammond's problem, yes 2014-04-20 22:28 * DocScrutinizer05 waves 2014-04-20 22:28 * DocScrutinizer05 closes that conrad browser window 2014-04-20 22:30 I don't even know if you maybe actually build a thyristor ignition for car engine. So why should I contine trying to figure better alternatives for an unknown usecase, just because I think that this case is for exactly two usecases which I dunno if you maybe even have one of those two 2014-04-20 22:30 they do specify a "recommended torque". that suggests that they have at least thought about the issue :) 2014-04-20 22:32 I guess you could build your device even inside a glass bottle. Will it be easy? prolly no. will it be unique? for sure. Will it be expensive or inconvenient? hell yes 2014-04-20 22:34 DocScrutinizer05: he's building a video mixer. digital in, digital out. with a few control knobs and faders and a display 2014-04-20 22:35 stage? 2014-04-20 22:35 or studio? 2014-04-20 22:35 stage 2014-04-20 22:35 then it's actually not all that bad a case 2014-04-20 22:36 sb0: oh, and if you don't mind a little plastic, an approach with top and bottom Al plates could actually be nice, too 2014-04-20 22:36 once assembled those critters are relatively sturdy, and heavy enough to not move around on somebody taking a deep breath 2014-04-20 22:37 the don't tend to "sing" when you hit them 2014-04-20 22:37 yeah, and video cables are a bit stiff, so it's good to have weight 2014-04-20 22:37 make two plastic shells (split at mid-height for connector openings) for the sides, put holes into them for the vertical metal spacers, 2014-04-20 22:37 :nod: 2014-04-20 22:37 for stage equipment this is actually the right case 2014-04-20 22:38 (move around) maybe glue some rubber mat at the bottom 2014-04-20 22:38 :nod: 2014-04-20 22:38 I was planning to glue rubber feet 2014-04-20 22:39 glued feet will vanish during weeks 2014-04-20 22:39 hmm, I've seen some good quality ones 2014-04-20 22:39 hard to find, but yes, the exist 2014-04-20 22:40 if they vanish, you can sell spares ;-) 2014-04-20 22:40 they* 2014-04-20 22:40 mat sounds nice 2014-04-20 22:41 you can even hide the screws under it :) 2014-04-20 22:41 no 2014-04-20 22:41 since the screws are at front panel aiui 2014-04-20 22:42 ooh nope 2014-04-20 22:42 nm 2014-04-20 22:42 cheers 2014-04-20 22:42 o/ 2014-04-20 22:47 yeah, I still need to figure out a way - if possible at all and somehow reasonable - to avoid screws on the front panel 2014-04-20 22:47 maybe by welding those threaded spacers, but that sounds difficult and expensive 2014-04-20 22:48 pcercuei has quit [Quit: dodo] 2014-04-20 22:48 you could have a thin Al sheet on top, as "front panel" 2014-04-20 22:48 anyway, bedtime for now 2014-04-20 22:48 bbl 2014-04-20 22:48 then you don't need to paint the rest of the box so much 2014-04-20 22:48 sweet dreams :) 2014-04-20 22:48 sb0 has left #qi-hardware ["Leaving"] 2014-04-20 22:54 dandon has quit [Quit: .] 2014-04-20 23:11 OH 2014-04-20 23:11 I just realized why a (metalworking) mill is called so 2014-04-20 23:12 (because back in the days it would be powered by a water wheel or wind and some blades... like a grain mill!) 2014-04-20 23:15 DocScrutinizer05: you can prolly answer my question 2014-04-20 23:16 in file:///home/whitequark/Downloads/327216.pdf they show that an USB 3.0 *cable* (among other parts) will emit RF noise 2014-04-20 23:16 but how?! the signal is transmitted over a differential twisted pair in shielding 2014-04-20 23:16 there should be no emission, not even at -95dB that they show 2014-04-20 23:18 actually I'm lost as to whoever genius selected 5GHz as the carrier frequency, knowing that it will interfere with the ISM band 2014-04-20 23:21 i suppose no shielding is perfect ? 2014-04-20 23:22 well, it seems like a rather lot of shielding machinery thrown on the problem 2014-04-20 23:32 Web-aptosid876_ has quit [Quit: Leaving] 2014-04-20 23:36 i mean, it's a plug, so there must be some gaps. and since RF loves to crawl on surfaces, ...