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2014-04-08 01:20 <wpwrak> argh. bat man attacks !
2014-04-08 01:24 <wpwrak> hmm. that will get messy. the belt for raising the blinds in my office broke yesterday, so i can't just open the window to let the critter out. instead, i'll have to divert it to another room ...
2014-04-08 01:25 <wpwrak> now it's hiding somewhere
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2014-04-08 02:32 <rjeffries> Preface: haters gonna hate, as the saying goes. <smile> but this looks interesting to moi:
2014-04-08 02:32 <rjeffries> http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2014/04/raspberry-pi-gets-more-arduino-y-with-new-open-source-modular-hardware/
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2014-04-08 08:34 <paul_boddie> rjeffries: According to http://www.raspberrypi.org/raspberry-pi-compute-module-new-product/ it isn't pin-compatible with the usual configuration of the DDR2 SODIMM slot.
2014-04-08 08:36 <paul_boddie> I can't remember whether the EOMA68 stuff maintains compatibility, but the whole Compute Board thing looks like a rehash of EOMA68 in an arguably less convenient form factor. And another way to dump unwanted Broadcom parts. ;-)
2014-04-08 08:39 <paul_boddie> Wonder what the Improv people (https://makeplaylive.com/#/open-hardware/improv) think of it.
2014-04-08 08:42 <paul_boddie> Ah, I see it gets a mention: https://discuss.makeplaylive.com/t/progress-updates/37/37
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2014-04-08 11:46 <DocScrutinizer05> wpwrak: huh, bat? switch off the light in room, they actually *use* their eyes too and don't fly into the dark
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2014-04-08 11:52 <wpwrak> the problem is that getting out wouldn't have been easy. it would have to fly into the corridor, make an immediate turn. then get out the window. they usually have a hard enough time even finding a wide open window right in the same room. i think they get very confused when caught indoors.
2014-04-08 11:54 <wpwrak> well, it eventually got itself caught between window and blinds. then i could gently guide it (with a flashlight and compressed air) to a little opening where it could escape.
2014-04-08 12:02 <whitequark> wpwrak: use your HCl stash
2014-04-08 12:05 <wpwrak> i still plan to inhabit the place after the bat removal :)
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2014-04-08 15:02 <DocScrutinizer05> why remove it first place? I'd feed and name it.
2014-04-08 15:03 <DocScrutinizer05> you first should clean it though. They often have parasites
2014-04-08 15:04 <DocScrutinizer05> just like their closest relatives, the hedgehogs
2014-04-08 15:04 <wpwrak> yeha, i thought of that. have my own personal anti-mosquito bodyguard. but then i suppose bats aren't easily domesticated, especially if they're already adults
2014-04-08 15:05 <DocScrutinizer05> hmm, domestication might be hard, but offering it a comfortable home might result in it staying with you
2014-04-08 15:05 <wpwrak> by the way, we have lots of bats in buenos aires. they're far from being an endangered species around here.
2014-04-08 15:05 <whitequark> I don't think "domestication" even works with wild animals in general
2014-04-08 15:07 <wpwrak> bats make their homes in the boxes where blinds are rolled up. the problem is that they dont mind living in their own excrements ...
2014-04-08 15:07 <wpwrak> and i suppose their dead and such are also "buried" right there
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2014-04-08 15:11 <wpwrak> sometimes they seem to get a bit confused and bump against windows and blinds. over and over again. maybe they're mistaking the building. then i rattle the blinds a bit to make sure any that may have crept in get out again.
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2014-04-08 15:13 <whitequark> wait, bats are mammals O_o
2014-04-08 15:14 <wpwrak> yes, so if you chase them away too late, they leave their young behind to starve and rot
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2014-04-08 15:19 <whitequark> hmm, Argentina also has rabies-infected vampire bats
2014-04-08 15:20 <wpwrak> probably, yes
2014-04-08 15:21 <wpwrak> DocScrutinizer05: also, these critters are quite ugly. not at all like cute kitten.
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2014-04-08 15:25 <DocScrutinizer05> dang, what bats do you have there? I had only nice lovely little bats in my living room
2014-04-08 15:26 <wpwrak> back in transylvania, before the villagers got discriminatory :)
2014-04-08 15:26 <DocScrutinizer05> lovely ntil I turned them into com-bats
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2014-04-08 15:28 <DocScrutinizer05> army of killer bats
2014-04-08 15:28 <wpwrak> here's one about certain creatures that come out at night: http://www.pidjin.net/2012/11/27/vampires-pirates/
2014-04-08 15:28 <wpwrak> so you bred them. grmbl.
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2014-04-08 17:05 <DocScrutinizer05> do they carry lazors? then they are mine
2014-04-08 17:10 <wpwrak> haven't seen any beam weapons. they bump into a lot of things, though. maybe that's because they're out of the range of your brain control device.
2014-04-08 17:18 <DocScrutinizer05> just noticed my mouse OS had a hickup. Maybe that's why
2014-04-08 17:19 <DocScrutinizer05> funny how it fired an endless button-repeat that caused a lot of stuff I never knew was even possibly, by simply moving the mouse cursur over things on screen
2014-04-08 17:20 <DocScrutinizer05> must've been a scrollwheel-right repeat
2014-04-08 17:21 <DocScrutinizer05> holding ctrl or alt on kbd caused really weird effects, like zooming in pdf viewer
2014-04-08 17:21 <whitequark> that's weird?
2014-04-08 17:22 <DocScrutinizer05> no. not when you know what's going on. As well as constant cycling between all open windows when moving cursor over kde task manager
2014-04-08 17:23 <DocScrutinizer05> or instant closing of menu after you opened it with LMB-click
2014-04-08 17:24 <DocScrutinizer05> really weird is the logitech mouse OS, whatever it might be on that MX revolution
2014-04-08 17:25 <DocScrutinizer05> anyway, I'm happy a simple power cycling of MX finally solved and fixed it
2014-04-08 17:25 <DocScrutinizer05> which makes me wonder how to fnd out about uptime of the mouse OS
2014-04-08 17:25 <whitequark> it's usually not the mouse but the OS who cycles the button
2014-04-08 17:25 <whitequark> because it loses the mouse-up event somehow
2014-04-08 17:26 <whitequark> though, with wheel... idk
2014-04-08 17:26 <DocScrutinizer05> well, that can't be it since I operated all mouse buttons manually, whioch didn't fix it
2014-04-08 17:26 <DocScrutinizer05> I even umplugged and replugged the BT receiver, which also didn't fix it
2014-04-08 17:28 <DocScrutinizer05> also funny that all (other) mouse buttons worked, as much (or as little) as I been able to check it
2014-04-08 17:29 <DocScrutinizer05> when I started suspecting mouse button, I first checked all buttons tactile and acoustical and considered them mechanically OK
2014-04-08 17:30 <DocScrutinizer05> then I switched off mouse to see if the effect stopped, which it did, immediately. And hooray, it stayed like that when I switched mouse on again
2014-04-08 17:31 <DocScrutinizer05> since the OS (linux) doesn't even notice when I switch off the BT mouse, since the BT receiver still is up and running, I guess it can't be an effect related to linux in any way
2014-04-08 17:32 <whitequark> HELL FUCKING YEAH
2014-04-08 17:32 <whitequark> EU killed roaming fees: http://uk.reuters.com/article/2014/04/03/us-eu-telecomunications-parliament-idUKBREA320S520140403
2014-04-08 17:32 <DocScrutinizer05> umm, completely now?
2014-04-08 17:32 <whitequark> seems like so
2014-04-08 17:33 <DocScrutinizer05> hell yeah, EU court said "Voratsdatenspeicherung" is illegal
2014-04-08 17:33 <whitequark> the fuck is that word?
2014-04-08 17:33 <DocScrutinizer05> vorrat...
2014-04-08 17:33 <DocScrutinizer05> (save all metadata of all communications for 6 months)
2014-04-08 17:34 <DocScrutinizer05> THAT is great!
2014-04-08 17:34 <whitequark> right
2014-04-08 17:35 <DocScrutinizer05> since, you know, it's not like our authorities would be ANY better than NSA
2014-04-08 17:38 <DocScrutinizer05> (mouse) I already been afraid of collateral damage by my latest khotkeys hack to ESC away any kmail "please re-enter you username and password for this POP3 account, since last login failed" requester
2014-04-08 17:39 <DocScrutinizer05> would've been an intriguing task to revert or disable that hack, with a desktop going amok like this
2014-04-08 17:39 <whitequark> some neighboor is cooking some kind of meat, and it smells DELICIOUS
2014-04-08 17:40 * whitequark looks at a pristinely empty fridge
2014-04-08 17:40 <DocScrutinizer05> knock. Tell something about gas leak!
2014-04-08 17:41 <DocScrutinizer05> I just need to look at my empty money purse
2014-04-08 17:42 * DocScrutinizer05 wonders whether to have last cafe latte now, or save it for tomorrow
2014-04-08 17:42 <whitequark> yes. fortunately I don't have this problem right now
2014-04-08 17:43 <whitequark> there's rumors however that USD will soon be out of circulation in RU
2014-04-08 17:43 <DocScrutinizer05> haha
2014-04-08 17:43 <whitequark> with all the effects on economy it implies
2014-04-08 17:43 <DocScrutinizer05> my condolences
2014-04-08 17:44 <DocScrutinizer05> seems putin is wildly determined to do a time leap back to cold war, with all the nice black&white friend or foe thinking
2014-04-08 17:45 <DocScrutinizer05> might help for his very private ambitions, though it prolly kills russia's last 30 years of progress
2014-04-08 17:46 <whitequark> something like that
2014-04-08 17:46 * whitequark ponders saving some USD in cash for the possible upcoming black market
2014-04-08 17:47 <DocScrutinizer05> ex warshaw pact turning into a horde of cro magnon bawling "Putin! Putin! Putin!"
2014-04-08 17:49 <DocScrutinizer05> s/warshaw pact/USSR/
2014-04-08 17:49 <qi-bot> DocScrutinizer05 meant: "ex USSR turning into a horde of cro magnon bawling "Putin! Putin! Putin!""
2014-04-08 17:49 <DocScrutinizer05> and "kill the fascists!"
2014-04-08 17:49 <DocScrutinizer05> of course everybody being a fascist who's not pro Putin
2014-04-08 17:51 <DocScrutinizer05> or, even when you shout "Putin hooray!" this won't help you becoming a fascist when your nose isn't looking the right way in Putin's eyes. Or you're gay then
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2014-04-08 17:52 <DocScrutinizer05> take care with your laundry, wash colors *separately* !
2014-04-08 17:53 <DocScrutinizer05> whitequark: maybe you better use some USD to leave that nasty place
2014-04-08 17:55 <DocScrutinizer05> before your nose looks gay
2014-04-08 17:56 <whitequark> right now my options are, basically, exchange slavery in RU to slavery to big western multinational company X or Y (you probably know and hate both X and Y.)
2014-04-08 17:57 <DocScrutinizer05> well, there are many shades of gray in slavery
2014-04-08 17:58 <whitequark> sure. in other circumstances, I would probably like a job in X or Y, even if I disagree with their business decisions
2014-04-08 17:58 <DocScrutinizer05> and it's more or less compulsory, depending on where you live and who thinks to own the right to you
2014-04-08 17:58 <wpwrak> hmm, dhl. expected a parcel the size of a book. got one about 1/2 m^3. well, sometimes people get crazy with packaging materials. then peeked inside. some cosmetic printing supplies. definitely not what i expected.
2014-04-08 17:58 <DocScrutinizer05> LOL
2014-04-08 17:58 <DocScrutinizer05> wtf is cosmetic printing?
2014-04-08 17:59 <wpwrak> and the true recipient put a phone number that no longer exists, so i couldn't even tell them that they don't need to worry. ah well.
2014-04-08 17:59 <whitequark> DocScrutinizer05: but when the result of a layoff, no matter how it turned out that way, is compulsory return to RU within 1-2 months... I'd rather wait for a bit longer
2014-04-08 17:59 <whitequark> and try to seek some better options
2014-04-08 17:59 <DocScrutinizer05> that#s prolly wise
2014-04-08 18:00 <DocScrutinizer05> otoh you soon may ask for asylum
2014-04-08 18:00 <wpwrak> maybe some colors or such. it looks like printer supplies, maybe even a printer. there's even some color calibration document (according to the envelope). i only dug as deep as i had to to find a name.
2014-04-08 18:00 <whitequark> asylum seekers seem to be unpopular lately. #StopTheBoats and the like
2014-04-08 18:00 <whitequark> I doubt there's much goodwill that way
2014-04-08 18:01 <DocScrutinizer05> that depends. You're a highly qualified CS expert
2014-04-08 18:01 <DocScrutinizer05> we're welcoming those
2014-04-08 18:01 <whitequark> mhmm
2014-04-08 18:01 <whitequark> by the way, c't hacks never arrived :(
2014-04-08 18:01 <DocScrutinizer05> and you got some money still
2014-04-08 18:02 <whitequark> neither previous issue nor the current one
2014-04-08 18:02 <DocScrutinizer05> write to their customer service
2014-04-08 18:02 <wpwrak> in argentine, foreigners live and work for many years without proper paperwork ...
2014-04-08 18:02 <whitequark> but I don't know german (yet!)...
2014-04-08 18:02 <DocScrutinizer05> you know english
2014-04-08 18:02 <wpwrak> so if russia gets too hot, there's always that option :)
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2014-04-08 18:03 <whitequark> DocScrutinizer05: you think that's sufficient? the website is 100% in DE, isn't it?
2014-04-08 18:03 <DocScrutinizer05> I know a few english men that never even tried learning German though they live here for years or even decades
2014-04-08 18:04 <whitequark> ah. good. I'll wait for a week more, to account for russian post
2014-04-08 18:04 <whitequark> wpwrak: well, our trains (so far) don't derail regularly :p
2014-04-08 18:05 <wpwrak> ah yes, you'd have to learn some new survival strategies, like not taking the train
2014-04-08 18:06 <wpwrak> it's okay to watch them from afar, though. since they're very slow (else they wouldn't even make it out of the station without derailing), they debris won't fly very far
2014-04-08 18:07 <whitequark> ...
2014-04-08 18:07 <whitequark> is it really that bad?
2014-04-08 18:08 <wpwrak> well, there hasn't been a newsworthy accident in the last few months
2014-04-08 18:09 <DocScrutinizer05> I couldn't live with that power supplier situation
2014-04-08 18:09 <DocScrutinizer05> unless I got my own power plant
2014-04-08 18:09 <wpwrak> but i can see the trains crawl into the station that had the last two crashes. well, if i sit very still, i can see them crawl. otherwise i'd think they're just parked on the track.
2014-04-08 18:10 <DocScrutinizer05> 20kW would suffice. The excess I can live with occasionally not being available from national grid
2014-04-08 18:10 <whitequark> DocScrutinizer05: I would think Argentina has some cheap fuel
2014-04-08 18:10 <wpwrak> DocScrutinizer05: no major power mishaps lately. the brutally hot december was followed by an unusually cool summer, so air conditioning use was low
2014-04-08 18:11 <wpwrak> whitequark: argentina had that, yes ...
2014-04-08 18:11 <DocScrutinizer05> some ages ago, you mean
2014-04-08 18:11 <wpwrak> ... then the government decided it had to apply some price controls, to make sure it stayed cheap.
2014-04-08 18:11 <DocScrutinizer05> ouch
2014-04-08 18:11 <DocScrutinizer05> the effect of such measure is the same anywhere on this globe
2014-04-08 18:12 <wpwrak> a few years later: due to total lack of investment, argentina changed from a reasonably large exporter to a major importer. and still it.
2014-04-08 18:12 <wpwrak> DocScrutinizer05: yeah, it worked like a clockwork.
2014-04-08 18:13 <whitequark> facepalm.
2014-04-08 18:14 <wpwrak> bolivia and uruguay are very happy. bolivia can basically lean back and live off the money that's coming in for selling gas to argentina. uruguay is running all their power plants at 200% (or so) to make sure the ... argentina. nice business, too.
2014-04-08 18:16 <DocScrutinizer05> haha, actually a plot like honecker's plan to take over the west, by abolishing GDR
2014-04-08 18:17 <DocScrutinizer05> it worked, meanwhile NSA and BKA do a better job than horch&guck ever did
2014-04-08 18:21 <DocScrutinizer05> there's a nice satiric 'infotainment report' called "the truth about GDR" where they reveal Honeckers secret plan to take over the west
2014-04-08 18:22 <wpwrak> ... was the DHL interrupt
2014-04-08 18:22 <wpwrak> ... should have been s/argentina/the lights don't go out in buenos aires/
2014-04-08 18:23 <wpwrak> DocScrutinizer05: i think the worst that could happen to the west was "winning" the cold war
2014-04-08 18:24 <DocScrutinizer05> indeed
2014-04-08 18:25 * DocScrutinizer05 can't help but thinking about herbicides, which cause the herbs to grow to death, literally
2014-04-08 18:26 <wpwrak> ah. perfect. the recipient of my stuff was quicker than me and rejected it upon receipt. very good.
2014-04-08 18:26 <DocScrutinizer05> end of cold war directly kicked us back into wild west capitalism
2014-04-08 18:27 <DocScrutinizer05> actually the west doesn't need to compete with anybody anymore about the better system for the people
2014-04-08 18:27 <wpwrak> well, or something. maybe they just weren't there. seems that DHL uses "rejected" for any non-delivery. i see that this shipment was also "rejected" last friday.
2014-04-08 18:27 <wpwrak> DocScrutinizer05: exactly that is the problem
2014-04-08 18:28 <wpwrak> now there's no reason anymore to be "nice". screw the plebs.
2014-04-08 18:28 <DocScrutinizer05> yep
2014-04-08 18:28 <DocScrutinizer05> :-S
2014-04-08 18:28 <DocScrutinizer05> so maybe actually hooray Putin! X-P
2014-04-08 18:29 <DocScrutinizer05> did I say that?
2014-04-08 18:29 <wpwrak> that is, of course, until china has fully caught up. i somehow think it won't take all that long for this to happen. maybe another decade.
2014-04-08 18:29 <DocScrutinizer05> or less
2014-04-08 18:30 <wpwrak> i see nothing in putin's actions that would be in any way more reprehensible than what other major powers have done under similar circumstances
2014-04-08 18:30 <DocScrutinizer05> they are already on par on a considerable 2 digit percentage of the whole picture
2014-04-08 18:30 <DocScrutinizer05> e.g they build their own windmills
2014-04-08 18:31 <DocScrutinizer05> farewell Germany
2014-04-08 18:31 <DocScrutinizer05> soon they'll export them to us
2014-04-08 18:31 <wpwrak> they still have to find a way to deal with people getting unhappy with nasty work conditions at factories, and relax a bit about communication. but then they''ve made it
2014-04-08 18:32 <DocScrutinizer05> unhappy? that word doesn't exist in chinese language, I guess
2014-04-08 18:32 <wpwrak> yeah, .cn engineering has largely caught up with the west. they're still a bit behind on creativity, but that won't last forever
2014-04-08 18:32 <DocScrutinizer05> problem solved
2014-04-08 18:32 <wpwrak> oh, it does. they're not just little robots.
2014-04-08 18:32 <DocScrutinizer05> and regarding communication I guess they are years ahead of us
2014-04-08 18:33 <DocScrutinizer05> erdogan just catching up
2014-04-08 18:33 <DocScrutinizer05> we can do bets who will be next. Prolly Hungary
2014-04-08 18:38 <DocScrutinizer05> did you ever hear of crimes committed in GDR? It simply didn't exist - except when a westerner was on visit and misbehaved. I guess same applies to the concept of "unhappy" in China
2014-04-08 18:39 <DocScrutinizer05> actually the only crime ever officially mentioned in GDR were those who tried to leave the country
2014-04-08 18:39 <DocScrutinizer05> "unhappy"? pffff!
2014-04-08 18:39 <wpwrak> i think they'll eventually come around. i can understand why the government is very cautious about discouraging political experiments. remember "The Great Leap Forward" ?
2014-04-08 18:39 <DocScrutinizer05> who cares?
2014-04-08 18:40 <wpwrak> a charismatic troublemaker is really the last thing china needs
2014-04-08 18:40 <DocScrutinizer05> hehe yeah
2014-04-08 18:40 <wpwrak> well, at least now they have the industrial capacity to keep up with producing body bags, should it come to that ...
2014-04-08 18:40 <DocScrutinizer05> sozial and economical dynamics get kinda unpredictable on such scale
2014-04-08 18:43 <wpwrak> the next obstacle will be when increased demands from now comparably wealthy people will hit a decrease in economical growth. the latter will inevitably happen when the "catching up" benefit ends. (or is already happening)
2014-04-08 18:43 <DocScrutinizer05> also china actually is a different detached universe, from common consciousness of chinese
2014-04-08 18:43 <wpwrak> so yes, they still have a bit of work lined up for them. but i'd say, all things considered, they could do a lot worse.
2014-04-08 18:43 <DocScrutinizer05> I guess they frowned at pharaohs
2014-04-08 18:44 <DocScrutinizer05> china considers rest of the world kinda like Rome thought about the north barbarian badlands
2014-04-08 18:45 <wpwrak> naw, that's the US :)
2014-04-08 18:45 <DocScrutinizer05> haha
2014-04-08 18:47 <wpwrak> i don't think the chinese really feel superior yet. eventually, they might.
2014-04-08 18:47 <DocScrutinizer05> hte definitely feel superior, based on their history
2014-04-08 18:48 <DocScrutinizer05> china is the center of the world, the cradle of mankind and civilization
2014-04-08 18:48 <DocScrutinizer05> they*
2014-04-08 18:50 <DocScrutinizer05> I guess the current dynasty in china is older than the USA
2014-04-08 18:50 <wpwrak> well, that's not so hard :)
2014-04-08 18:51 <DocScrutinizer05> nd for odd reasons that's what seems to count in a strange way for chinese souls
2014-04-08 18:52 <DocScrutinizer05> china and india have a strange archaic sense of community
2014-04-08 18:53 <DocScrutinizer05> fate, honor, heroism etc is all that counts. Personal freedom is frowned upon
2014-04-08 18:54 <DocScrutinizer05> history, don't forget history. and tradition
2014-04-08 18:55 <DocScrutinizer05> to get a bit sarcastic, I could say: basically all the things that the average american has no idea what the words meaming might be
2014-04-08 19:09 <wpwrak> oh, they like "modern" values well enough. just that they also keep some of the old ones, too. there are some sarcastic remarks on how changes of values in western society made things like the snowden incident even possible.
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2014-04-08 19:15 <DocScrutinizer05> well, I can't even start to figure how the average chinese feels, sitting in his car in a traffic jam, thinking about the times 10 years back when there were only bicycles and no smog that makes you die from coughing
2014-04-08 19:16 <DocScrutinizer05> looking out the side window of his car directly at the seas of poison or a giant coal power plant, or some other industrial abomination
2014-04-08 19:17 <wpwrak> not sure things are all that visible. you have been to mainland china, haven't you ?
2014-04-08 19:19 pcercuei has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
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2014-04-08 19:22 <DocScrutinizer05> nope
2014-04-08 19:22 <DocScrutinizer05> I'm actually not sure I ever want to go there
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2014-04-08 19:23 <DocScrutinizer05> feels like "dancing cats of minamata", though that been Japan
2014-04-08 19:29 <DocScrutinizer05> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ihFkyPv1jtU
2014-04-08 19:30 <DocScrutinizer05> and about visibility: yes, you're right, the smog is so terrible you barely can see anything ;-P
2014-04-08 19:32 <DocScrutinizer05> http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2014/03/15/china-pollution-smoggiest-city/6072605/
2014-04-08 19:37 <wpwrak> of course, you have to be careful with US propaganda. i mean, they can turn iraq into a superpower (which they're then morally obliged to destroy), what are a few environmental issues ? but the smog does indeed seem to be nasty.
2014-04-08 19:46 <DocScrutinizer05> >>Though there is increasing anger over pollution, some of which has prompted protesters to block proposed factories, many Chinese have reacted by buying face masks rather than demanding change from the government.<<
2014-04-08 19:47 <DocScrutinizer05> that's about to the point about what I been speaking before
2014-04-08 19:48 <whitequark> /r/science is really on some kind of streak now
2014-04-08 19:48 <whitequark> "U.S. Schoolchildren Exposed to Arsenic in Well Water Have Lower IQ Scores"
2014-04-08 19:48 <DocScrutinizer05> there's obviously another mentality prevalent in china, that makes the word "unhappy" sound strangely non-applicable
2014-04-08 19:48 <whitequark> well no shit!
2014-04-08 19:48 <DocScrutinizer05> LOL
2014-04-08 19:49 <DocScrutinizer05> did they also test for LD50?
2014-04-08 19:49 <whitequark> hm?
2014-04-08 19:49 <wpwrak> so, my parcel shall reach me tomorrow. phew. a lot of work to get that little calculator ...
2014-04-08 19:49 <DocScrutinizer05> LD50 of arsenic to pupils
2014-04-08 19:50 <DocScrutinizer05> lil calculator?
2014-04-08 19:51 <wpwrak> well, the device i need for e-banking. the old one is dying. that is, most of it is still fine, just the display is losing rows and colums. makes it quite a puzzle to guess the correct code.
2014-04-08 19:51 <DocScrutinizer05> whitequark: seems I can't really parse your >/r/science..." line
2014-04-08 19:52 <DocScrutinizer05> whitequark: I don't know "/r/science" and I can't makes sense of "being on a streak"
2014-04-08 19:53 <DocScrutinizer05> pardin my poor english
2014-04-08 19:53 <DocScrutinizer05> pardon even
2014-04-08 19:53 <whitequark> DocScrutinizer05: /r/science is reddit's scientific subcommunity
2014-04-08 19:53 <DocScrutinizer05> wpwrak: ooh, token generator. Optical input from PC screen?
2014-04-08 19:54 <DocScrutinizer05> whitequark: :-) thanks!
2014-04-08 19:54 <whitequark> it's pretty sensible, considering its size. "a streak" in this case meant that I see articles with rather obvious conclusions all the time
2014-04-08 19:54 <whitequark> of course you need to conduct such research, but I'm really not sure what kind of discussion the poster wants to see
2014-04-08 19:54 <whitequark> arsenic denialers? "geee no, arsenic toxicity was invented by Big Pharma"
2014-04-08 19:55 <whitequark> hang on, I need to get that rumor on the 'net
2014-04-08 19:55 <DocScrutinizer05> to me that sounds like Mengele
2014-04-08 19:55 <larsc> whitequark: rather the other way around
2014-04-08 19:55 <whitequark> DocScrutinizer05: they measured environmental arsenic. levels around 5ppb or so in rural areas
2014-04-08 19:55 <whitequark> apparently this was never done in US before
2014-04-08 19:55 <whitequark> well, not correlated with IQ
2014-04-08 19:55 <DocScrutinizer05> thought as much, but headline sounds kinda scary
2014-04-08 19:56 <DocScrutinizer05> that's why I asked if they ran another test for determining LD50
2014-04-08 19:56 <whitequark> ooooooh. I just reparsed it the way you did
2014-04-08 19:56 <whitequark> haha
2014-04-08 19:57 <DocScrutinizer05> "US military rund LSD tests on prisoners"
2014-04-08 19:57 <DocScrutinizer05> runs*
2014-04-08 19:58 <whitequark> on prisoners? I thought they ran it on their own employees
2014-04-08 19:58 <DocScrutinizer05> "500 solders exposed to radiation of atomic test explosion"
2014-04-08 19:59 <DocScrutinizer05> soldiers*
2014-04-08 20:00 <DocScrutinizer05> actually I seem to remember either military or CIA testing psychoactive gas in subway stations, on US citizens
2014-04-08 20:01 <whitequark> mkultra, iirc
2014-04-08 20:01 <DocScrutinizer05> yep, sounds about correct
2014-04-08 20:01 <whitequark> " MKUltra used numerous methodologies to manipulate people's mental states and alter brain functions, including the surreptitious administration of drugs (especially LSD) and other chemicals, hypnosis, sensory deprivation, isolation, verbal and sexual abuse, as well as various forms of torture."
2014-04-08 20:04 <DocScrutinizer05> "U.S. Schoolchildren Exposed to Arsenic in Well Water Have Lower IQ Scores"  fits in perfectly
2014-04-08 20:05 <whitequark> definitely
2014-04-08 20:14 <wpwrak> DocScrutinizer05: (optical input) yes, using a homo sapiens sensor :)
2014-04-08 20:14 <whitequark> do token generators even require input? I've never seen one
2014-04-08 20:14 <whitequark> usually they have an RTC and generate tokens valid for e.g. +5 minutes
2014-04-08 20:14 <wpwrak> the good ones do
2014-04-08 20:15 <DocScrutinizer05> whitequark: they usually do a TAN based on parameters of the transaction, plus challenge from server
2014-04-08 20:15 <wpwrak> mine is challenge-response. i unlock the "sim" card in the reader, enter the challenge presented by the bank, then type the answer to the bank's login form
2014-04-08 20:16 <whitequark> ahh yes, right, bank
2014-04-08 20:16 <wpwrak> some transactions also use it, yes. not as obsessively as some german banks, though :)
2014-04-08 20:16 <DocScrutinizer05> http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indizierte_TAN-Liste#TAN-Generator
2014-04-08 20:17 <wpwrak> my bank in argentina just uses a RNG token. for all i know, it may even be NSA. oops, i mean RSA
2014-04-08 20:17 <whitequark> lol.
2014-04-08 20:18 <whitequark> those two are practically equivalent though
2014-04-08 20:18 <whitequark> it's sad that some dickheads tarnished the reputation of both a good algorithm and the very smart and nice people who invented it
2014-04-08 20:20 <wpwrak> it does seem that RSA weren't overly reluctant to be of service, though
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2014-04-08 20:45 <DocScrutinizer05> hmm?
2014-04-08 20:49 <wpwrak> see for exmaple here: http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/12/20/us-usa-security-rsa-idUSBRE9BJ1C220131220
2014-04-08 20:49 <DocScrutinizer05> seems I got to do a few security updates, eh? SSL
2014-04-08 20:49 <wpwrak> oh, you haven't yet ? :)
2014-04-08 20:50 <whitequark> DocScrutinizer05: you do realize I can point a script at your server right now and read arbitrary memory, likely containing unencrypted credentials?
2014-04-08 20:50 <wpwrak> whois --crawl | grep DocScrutinizer | ./exploit -
2014-04-08 20:50 <whitequark> e.g. some guy just did that with yahoo mail and got logins and passwords of some random people
2014-04-08 20:50 <wpwrak> whitequark: you wrote that after you did the deed, right ? :)
2014-04-08 20:51 <wpwrak> yahoo, resting in peace ...
2014-04-08 20:51 <whitequark> wpwrak: I'm too lazy :(
2014-04-08 20:51 <whitequark> actually yahoo has a very competent chief of security these days
2014-04-08 20:51 <whitequark> unironically
2014-04-08 20:51 <wpwrak> whitequark: most have picked the wrong sleeping hours then
2014-04-08 20:52 <whitequark> I can hardly blame them. even for amazon it took hours to fix this
2014-04-08 20:52 <wpwrak> DocScrutinizer05: the backdoored algorithm the reuters article refers to is of course good old DUAL_EC_PRNG
2014-04-08 20:53 <whitequark> DocScrutinizer05: DUAL_EC_DRBG is not really something you need to worry about
2014-04-08 20:53 <whitequark> its practical impact is near to zero, except for some very specific things (e.g. RSA BSAFE) you probably don't use
2014-04-08 20:53 <whitequark> heartbleed otoh...
2014-04-08 20:53 <wpwrak> whitequark: ... since nobody uses it. except for RSA.
2014-04-08 20:53 <whitequark> exactly
2014-04-08 20:54 * whitequark has already updated every single one of his keys and certificates
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2014-04-08 21:03 <DocScrutinizer05> hmmm
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2014-04-08 21:23 <DocScrutinizer05> ok, DUAL_EC is not in use anymore?
2014-04-08 21:25 <DocScrutinizer05> whitequark: which unencrypted credentials would you read from my server?
2014-04-08 21:25 <whitequark> I don't thnk DUAL_EC_DRBG was widely used. it's currently a hot topic because it's solid evidence that NSA deliberately sabotaged crypto
2014-04-08 21:25 <whitequark> DocScrutinizer05: submitted form data, ssl private keys
2014-04-08 21:25 <whitequark> api tokens
2014-04-08 21:25 <DocScrutinizer05> I still fail to evaluate the threat from SSL
2014-04-08 21:26 <whitequark> suppse you have a login form. someone puts "user / 12345" there. now I connect to your server, do $MAGIC and get "user / 12345" back.
2014-04-08 21:26 <DocScrutinizer05> whitequark: no ssl private keys on my server
2014-04-08 21:26 <DocScrutinizer05> no login forms either
2014-04-08 21:26 <whitequark> of course there is, if you use ssl. the keys for the server certificate itself
2014-04-08 21:26 <DocScrutinizer05> umm
2014-04-08 21:27 <whitequark> any ssl-capable server must load a certificate and a corresponding private key. that's how ssl works
2014-04-08 21:27 <DocScrutinizer05> ok, so somebody can pretend he's my server now?
2014-04-08 21:27 <whitequark> yes, and decrypt any traffic they may have intercepted
2014-04-08 21:27 <DocScrutinizer05> hmm
2014-04-08 21:27 <DocScrutinizer05> I think I can live with that
2014-04-08 21:27 <whitequark> do note that there are, obviously, large-scale scans with data extraction ongoing
2014-04-08 21:28 <whitequark> why do you use https at all then?
2014-04-08 21:28 <whitequark> since you obviously do not care about any benefit it may provide
2014-04-08 21:28 <DocScrutinizer05> I howver guess I want to renew the server private SSL key
2014-04-08 21:28 <DocScrutinizer05> I don't use https
2014-04-08 21:28 <whitequark> yes, that would be wise
2014-04-08 21:28 <whitequark> hm?
2014-04-08 21:29 <DocScrutinizer05> at least not on my server
2014-04-08 21:29 <DocScrutinizer05> my server doesn't have any sekrit stuff available via http
2014-04-08 21:30 <DocScrutinizer05> actually there's basically no secret stuff on my server
2014-04-08 21:30 <DocScrutinizer05> except from ZNC
2014-04-08 21:32 <DocScrutinizer05> any hint on creating new server key?
2014-04-08 21:32 <whitequark> $ openssl genrsa
2014-04-08 21:32 <DocScrutinizer05> I'm a bit lost regarding this since so far I never cared about those
2014-04-08 21:33 <whitequark> $ openssl genrsa 3072 if you're really paranoid
2014-04-08 21:33 <DocScrutinizer05> nc where's the old server global ssl key
2014-04-08 21:33 <whitequark> take a look at your config. /etc/ssl/private ?
2014-04-08 21:34 <DocScrutinizer05> thanks
2014-04-08 21:34 <whitequark> debian stores them there
2014-04-08 21:34 <DocScrutinizer05> grrr, -bash: cd: /etc/ssl/: No such file or directory
2014-04-08 21:43 <wpwrak> suse doesn't, apparently :)
2014-04-08 21:43 <DocScrutinizer05> etc/ssh/ssh_host_rsa_key ?
2014-04-08 21:44 dos1 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
2014-04-08 21:44 <whitequark> DocScrutinizer05: wait
2014-04-08 21:44 <whitequark> SSH != SSL
2014-04-08 21:44 <whitequark> in fact these two are entirely unrelated and SSH is not affected by this bug
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2014-04-08 21:45 <DocScrutinizer05> mhm
2014-04-08 21:46 <DocScrutinizer05> hi dos1
2014-04-08 21:46 <DocScrutinizer05> soooooo...
2014-04-08 21:47 <DocScrutinizer05> could it be I don't *have* ssl private key on my box?
2014-04-08 21:48 <DocScrutinizer05> The requested operation could not be completed   Connection to Server Refused   Details of the Request:   URL: https://maemo.cloud-7.de/
2014-04-08 21:48 <wpwrak> as a rule of thumb, you read about the SSH bugs with scientific interest and you read about the SSL bugs with trepidation.
2014-04-08 21:48 <DocScrutinizer05> mhm
2014-04-08 21:48 <DocScrutinizer05> still don't get it
2014-04-08 21:48 <whitequark> DocScrutinizer05: of course, if you don't have any ssl server
2014-04-08 21:49 <whitequark> and seems like you don't
2014-04-08 21:49 <DocScrutinizer05> yeah, why would I?
2014-04-08 21:49 <DocScrutinizer05> I mean, that stuff is public anyway
2014-04-08 21:49 <DocScrutinizer05> I got ssh
2014-04-08 21:49 <whitequark> I dunno. personally I run my own mailserver. it has three ssl keys for different stuff (webmail, imap and ldap)
2014-04-08 21:50 <DocScrutinizer05> ooooh
2014-04-08 21:50 <whitequark> also, smtp, but that reuses the webmail key for various obscure reasons
2014-04-08 21:51 <DocScrutinizer05> STARTTLS
2014-04-08 21:51 <DocScrutinizer05> and TLS for smtp
2014-04-08 21:52 <whitequark> STARTTLS is a way for legacy protocols to "upgrade" to TLS
2014-04-08 21:52 <DocScrutinizer05> I know
2014-04-08 21:52 <whitequark> ok
2014-04-08 21:52 <DocScrutinizer05> what I still do not know is where's that damn key?
2014-04-08 21:52 <whitequark> look at postfix config
2014-04-08 21:52 <DocScrutinizer05> ta
2014-04-08 21:53 <whitequark> or even grep '-----BEGIN RSA PRIVATE KEY-----' /etc -r
2014-04-08 21:53 * DocScrutinizer05 headbangs a bit
2014-04-08 21:53 <DocScrutinizer05> cyrus
2014-04-08 21:53 <whitequark> cyrrosis
2014-04-08 21:53 <DocScrutinizer05> indeed
2014-04-08 21:54 <DocScrutinizer05> of course no friggin /etc/cyrus
2014-04-08 21:54 <DocScrutinizer05> but mail/
2014-04-08 21:59 <DocScrutinizer05> sendmail.cf:  # Server private key     \n   O ServerKeyFile=/etc/pki/tls/certs/sendmail.pem
2014-04-08 21:59 <DocScrutinizer05> hmmmmm
2014-04-08 22:00 <DocScrutinizer05> http://privatepaste.com/05bb510cd6
2014-04-08 22:02 * DocScrutinizer05 scratches head
2014-04-08 22:04 <DocScrutinizer05> FFS http://privatepaste.com/a20d65e289
2014-04-08 22:13 <DocScrutinizer05> wpwrak: ((suse doesn't, apparently)) CentOS
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2014-04-08 23:10 <wpwrak> phlargh. wd-40, helping men save face since 1953.
2014-04-08 23:13 <roh> wpwrak: were youre certificates stuck in the webserver?
2014-04-08 23:17 <wpwrak> naw, still the problem with the blinds. the tape to pull them up or down broke, so the whole thing came crashing down. today i bought stuff to cover everything on my desk, then took the critter apart. first problem: it got stuck when trying to raise the blinds. applied wd-80 everywhere. then it moved a bit more, though not all that much.
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2014-04-08 23:19 <wpwrak> then i found that the drum had jumped off the "passive" side (opposite of the belt roll). so i lowered everything and put it back. but then it still wouldn't move. problem was that i had put it back too far. (it's of course all rusty and dirty, so you can't see very well what you're doing)
2014-04-08 23:20 <wpwrak> when i finally had the thing at the right place, the belt attaching the blinds to the drum broke. they must have been waiting all those years just for this opportunity.
2014-04-08 23:21 <wpwrak> #s/belt/belts/   three of them, no less. talk about fail-safe design by redundancy
2014-04-08 23:22 <wpwrak> so i removed the remains of the old ones, installed new ones (luckily i had some belt material around from a previous similar mishap)
2014-04-08 23:22 <wpwrak> then up went the blinds. attaching them was a bit of a challenge, too. right now they're being held by a flimsy piece of wire. let's hope tonight's storm won't be too nasty ...
2014-04-08 23:24 <wpwrak> finally i tried to place the access panel, but that thing is a pain. it's long and solid enough to be heavy, yet think enough to flex a lot. a real treat. i decided that this could wait until tomorrow.
2014-04-08 23:24 <wpwrak> goals accomplished: can see the outside world again.
2014-04-08 23:26 <wpwrak> still to do: install new belt, close access panel, and for good measure, install lighter blinds for day to day use so that i won't have to move the heavy critter twice a day.
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