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2014-03-25 03:18 <DocScrutinizer05> cut/mill plastic (acrylic)? *REALLY* dead-slow RPM or you run into trouble
2014-03-25 03:20 <DocScrutinizer05> even better, slow RPM and constant water cooling. I *seem* to recall a dash of detergent in cooling water is revommended, might be a delusion
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2014-03-25 03:27 <DocScrutinizer05> wpwrak: yeah, living molten red screaming acrylic
2014-03-25 03:27 <DocScrutinizer05> btw who spiced the drinks?
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2014-03-25 03:29 <DocScrutinizer05> ((dash of detergent in cooling water is recommended)) might help a lot to stop any screaming
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2014-03-25 03:30 <DocScrutinizer05> also iirc it's highly deprecated to use mineral oil based (or containing) cooling liquids for plastic cutting/milling, unlike for metal
2014-03-25 03:31 <DocScrutinizer05> I guess aunt google is your friend
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2014-03-25 04:00 <DocScrutinizer05> OT: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1418385#post1418385
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2014-03-25 05:43 <test1> hello
2014-03-25 05:43 <test1>  is anyone in here?
2014-03-25 05:44 <test1> so librewrt = openwrt + linux-libre?
2014-03-25 05:44 <test1> is this correct?
2014-03-25 05:55 * DocScrutinizer05 wonders if erdogan and Putin are meeting every weekend to smoke crack and drink the strong Absinth, then discuss their plans how to conquer the world
2014-03-25 05:58 <DocScrutinizer05> maybe both could use some councilors from China, who have more expertise about building Great Firewall
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2014-03-25 06:12 <kyak> they should also ask USA and GB for a bit of help
2014-03-25 06:14 <kyak> currently they are leaders in establishing of total control of citizens of their states and their puppet states
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2014-03-25 06:15 <kyak> http://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/25/us/obama-to-seek-nsa-curb-on-call-data.html
2014-03-25 06:16 <kyak> cool, Obama makes impression that he is going to call off NSA ;)
2014-03-25 06:17 <kyak> DocScrutinizer05: btw, you should be more bothered with intermediate results of elections in France
2014-03-25 06:17 <DocScrutinizer05> sure
2014-03-25 06:18 <DocScrutinizer05> Front Nationale successfully pimped up their image
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2014-03-25 06:31 <wpwrak> DocScrutinizer05: I doubt he his mill has a liquid coolant system. and he shouldn't really need one. not sure what he's doing to his acrylic ...
2014-03-25 06:35 <wpwrak> kyak: the general rule seems to be that all countries try to behave roughly equally well. then one gets bold and commits some atrocity, which is promptly condemned by all the others. after an appropriate amount of time has passed, at least a couple of weeks, the rest make that atrocity their standard procedure as well. and it repeats.
2014-03-25 06:40 <DocScrutinizer05> (no liquid cooling system) nothing a bit of putty or even a simple plastic tub couldn't fix
2014-03-25 06:41 <DocScrutinizer05> a 3mm high level of water above the surface of the acrylic to mill will go a long way
2014-03-25 06:42 <DocScrutinizer05> you don't necessarily need a circulating coolant system
2014-03-25 06:42 <wpwrak> messy :) naw, this shouldn't need any coolant.
2014-03-25 06:42 <DocScrutinizer05> at 100°C water will start to boil and not allow acrylic or toolbit to heat up any further
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2014-03-25 06:43 <test1> Hello
2014-03-25 06:43 <test1> Does the Ben Nanonote have a GPU?
2014-03-25 06:43 <DocScrutinizer05> I heard for other materials they use alcohol or even liquid nitrogen as coolant bath
2014-03-25 06:43 <test1> Or is everything on the screen rendered by the CPU?
2014-03-25 06:44 <wpwrak> test1: yup, all safely done by the CPU
2014-03-25 06:44 <wpwrak> DocScrutinizer05: you better figure out your process well before cooling with alcohol :)
2014-03-25 06:44 <DocScrutinizer05> I never owned or even seen a NN, so sorry no info here :-)
2014-03-25 06:45 <DocScrutinizer05> wpwrak: yep, sure :-D
2014-03-25 06:45 <test1> wpwrak: have you heard about GPU-based paravirtualization
2014-03-25 06:45 <test1> ?
2014-03-25 06:45 <DocScrutinizer05> and keep a fire extinguisher close
2014-03-25 06:45 <wpwrak> liquid nitrogen ... nice but may make some things brittle. also, better make sure you have good ventilation ...
2014-03-25 06:45 <test1> So, I supposed the nanonote will note be susceptible to this kind of attack?
2014-03-25 06:45 <test1> http://www.forbes.com/sites/andygreenberg/2012/07/26/meet-rakshasa-the-malware-infection-designed-to-be-undetectable-and-incurable/
2014-03-25 06:46 <DocScrutinizer05> forbes, omg
2014-03-25 06:47 <wpwrak> (GPU-based paravirtualization) naw
2014-03-25 06:48 <test1> http://www.wilderssecurity.com/showthread.php?t=345273
2014-03-25 06:48 <wpwrak> (BIOS flashing attack) well, there is a ROM in the CPU, for the USB boot loader. we don't know for sure whether it is truly a ROM or perhaps Flash. but that's about the only place i could think of
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2014-03-25 07:01 <kyak> wpwrak: i can't agree more
2014-03-25 07:05 <DocScrutinizer05> oh yeah, those nasty BIOS attack vectors. Particularly when abusing audio ultrasonic as hiden channel for stealth networking
2014-03-25 07:09 <test1> I would be cool to set up your own audio network though
2014-03-25 07:10 <test1> for time when you can't use the wifi card on your laptop without using its propriatary firmware xD
2014-03-25 07:15 <DocScrutinizer05> hmm, April 12th, 2013, 12:56 PM is date of first post on http://www.wilderssecurity.com/showthread.php?t=345273, makes me wonder...
2014-03-25 07:16 <DocScrutinizer05> sure, rather use the proprietary firmware in audiocard ;-P
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2014-03-25 07:33 <DocScrutinizer05> btw fsck forbes, they refuse top show any proper content without you allowing them to place cookies on your box. Sure, the first thing I wanna do when trying to read about possible security threats is to allow cookies
2014-03-25 07:33 <DocScrutinizer05> s/top /to /
2014-03-25 07:33 <qi-bot> DocScrutinizer05 meant: "btw fsck forbes, they refuse to show any proper content without you allowing them to place cookies on your box. Sure, the first thing I wanna do when trying to read about possible security threats is to allow cookies"
2014-03-25 07:36 <DocScrutinizer05> LOL http://forum.sysinternals.com/gpu-based-paravirtualization-rootkit-all-os-vulne_topic26706_post138481.html#138481
2014-03-25 07:37 <test1> DocScrutinizer05: I use Self-Destructing Cookies
2014-03-25 07:37 <test1> xD
2014-03-25 07:37 <DocScrutinizer05> self destruction cookies? nice! :-P
2014-03-25 07:37 <test1> DocScrutinizer05: Yup that's actually the first one I read
2014-03-25 07:38 <test1> https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/self-destructing-cookies/
2014-03-25 07:41 <DocScrutinizer05> http://forum.sysinternals.com/gpu-based-paravirtualization-rootkit-all-os-vulne_topic26706_page1.html is already giving it away
2014-03-25 07:43 <DocScrutinizer05> test1: sorry, I'm not visiting sites that would require me to do silly stuff to meet the crap they want to forcefeed on me
2014-03-25 07:43 <DocScrutinizer05> and forbes, c'mon *really* now?
2014-03-25 07:44 <test1> oops :P
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2014-03-25 07:57 <DocScrutinizer05> classical layer9 virus
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2014-03-25 08:15 <whitequark> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QP7harBuc-Q
2014-03-25 08:22 <wpwrak> one of those mysterious "an error occurred" clips
2014-03-25 08:23 <wpwrak> btw, roh would also know some things about milling acrylic. he's got a big mean mill.
2014-03-25 08:23 <DocScrutinizer05> o.O
2014-03-25 08:24 <DocScrutinizer05> wpwrak: one of the worst thing with acrylic is when you use old worn out tool bits that aren't sharp anymore. And acrylic is known to cause tools to lose their sharpness quickly
2014-03-25 08:25 <DocScrutinizer05> seems it's pretty hard
2014-03-25 08:28 <wpwrak> dunno. my trusty old 3.175" mill still works fine with it. so it can't be too bad.
2014-03-25 08:38 <DocScrutinizer05> http://www.plasticsmag.com/features.asp?fIssue=Sep/Oct-01
2014-03-25 08:47 <DocScrutinizer05> probably the "one size (err type) fits all (materials)" approach doesn't pan out too nicely for headmill bits and acrylic
2014-03-25 09:02 <DocScrutinizer05> http://www.plexiglas.de/sites/dc/Downloadcenter/Evonik/Product/PLEXIGLAS-Sheet/Verarbeitungsrichtlinien/311-5-tipps-zur-verarbeitung-von-plexiglas-de.pdf  (german, good)
2014-03-25 09:07 <whitequark> wpwrak: DocScrutinizer05 ok, I think I kinda solved it
2014-03-25 09:07 <whitequark> 1.0mm endmill, layers of 0.5mm, S18000, F1000 (yes, one thousand mm/sec)
2014-03-25 09:07 <DocScrutinizer05> by removing the "chips"?
2014-03-25 09:07 <whitequark> I can't quite get the nice finish I want though
2014-03-25 09:08 <whitequark> http://imgur.com/tqFYtLS
2014-03-25 09:08 <DocScrutinizer05> use water
2014-03-25 09:08 <DocScrutinizer05> you'll be surprised
2014-03-25 09:09 <whitequark> hmmm
2014-03-25 09:10 <DocScrutinizer05> try to get plastic drills
2014-03-25 09:10 <whitequark> I should make a full-sized cover for my CNC
2014-03-25 09:10 <whitequark> then I could even maybe use flood coolant
2014-03-25 09:10 <whitequark> or at least mist
2014-03-25 09:11 <DocScrutinizer05> meh, simply plase a few drops of water on the surface where you plan to drill a hole
2014-03-25 09:11 <DocScrutinizer05> place*
2014-03-25 09:12 <DocScrutinizer05> a) you should use low RPM anyway. b) you're likely to use small diameter drills which won't cause the water drop to get blown away
2014-03-25 09:13 <whitequark> WOW
2014-03-25 09:14 <DocScrutinizer05> ooh, when you mill the hole with smaller tool, make sure you always work against the spin
2014-03-25 09:14 <whitequark> this worked really well
2014-03-25 09:14 <DocScrutinizer05> don't let the mill add to the forward force
2014-03-25 09:14 <whitequark> first, chips don't accumulate on the endmill anymore, they turn into a kind of sludge and don't get in the way
2014-03-25 09:14 <whitequark> and definitely don't melt
2014-03-25 09:15 <whitequark> second, the finish is much much nicer
2014-03-25 09:15 <DocScrutinizer05> toldya
2014-03-25 09:15 <whitequark> let's try going slower
2014-03-25 09:16 <DocScrutinizer05> (against the spin) I'm fuzzy. When you mill out a hole with a bit that spins clockwise, then your toolpath also needs to be clockwise
2014-03-25 09:17 <whitequark> yeah, I know about conventional/climb milling
2014-03-25 09:19 <DocScrutinizer05> the surface where the feed adds to the circumference spped of the mill will look vleaner then the surface where the both subtract
2014-03-25 09:19 <DocScrutinizer05> typo galore
2014-03-25 09:20 <DocScrutinizer05> the surface where the feed adds to the circumference speed of the mill will look cleaner than the surface where the both subtract
2014-03-25 09:25 <DocScrutinizer05> btw WTF? your CNC does 1m/s?
2014-03-25 09:25 <DocScrutinizer05> is this feed or circumference speed?
2014-03-25 09:26 <DocScrutinizer05> when it really does 1m/s, you better mount it to concrete of your floor with 20*300 bolts, and leave the room before starting it ;-)
2014-03-25 09:27 <whitequark> my CNC does 1900mm/min
2014-03-25 09:28 <DocScrutinizer05> per minute, yeah maybe
2014-03-25 09:28 <whitequark> 31mm/s it is.
2014-03-25 09:28 <DocScrutinizer05> [2014-03-25 10:07:34] <whitequark> 1.0mm endmill, layers of 0.5mm, S18000, F1000 (yes, one thousand mm/sec)
2014-03-25 09:28 <whitequark> right, typoed
2014-03-25 09:28 <whitequark> it's just in contrast to wpwrak, which goes so painfully slow I don't think I'd be able to even watch it
2014-03-25 09:28 <whitequark> 2mm/min is absurd
2014-03-25 09:29 <DocScrutinizer05> yep
2014-03-25 09:29 <DocScrutinizer05> for acrylic slow feed is toxic
2014-03-25 09:29 <DocScrutinizer05> slow RPM, high feed
2014-03-25 09:29 <whitequark> oh, /s
2014-03-25 09:29 <whitequark> so he went 180mm/min
2014-03-25 09:29 <whitequark> right
2014-03-25 09:30 <DocScrutinizer05> it's a bit counter intuitive, until you think about melting
2014-03-25 09:31 <DocScrutinizer05> slow feed causes too much heating and finally melting of the acrylic
2014-03-25 09:31 <whitequark> yeah yeah, I got it already, after two dozen cuts
2014-03-25 09:31 <whitequark> I'm not *that* dumb
2014-03-25 09:31 <DocScrutinizer05> lol
2014-03-25 09:31 <DocScrutinizer05> never said you were
2014-03-25 09:31 <DocScrutinizer05> but water is the killer, eh?
2014-03-25 09:31 <whitequark> it totally is
2014-03-25 09:31 <DocScrutinizer05> :-)
2014-03-25 09:32 <whitequark> S8000 F1200 is really good
2014-03-25 09:32 <whitequark> lemme try even lower rpm
2014-03-25 09:32 <DocScrutinizer05> eventually your mill breaks
2014-03-25 09:32 <DocScrutinizer05> tricky to find the right RPM vs feed
2014-03-25 09:33 <DocScrutinizer05> when the ratio goes too low, your feed cracks the bit
2014-03-25 09:33 <DocScrutinizer05> ratio too high makes acrylic melt
2014-03-25 09:33 <whitequark> grmbl
2014-03-25 09:33 <whitequark> the hard part is making water stay there
2014-03-25 09:33 <whitequark> and not go away
2014-03-25 09:33 <whitequark> and I just broke my second to last endmill
2014-03-25 09:34 <DocScrutinizer05> :-S
2014-03-25 09:34 <DocScrutinizer05> i'm typing too slow
2014-03-25 09:34 <whitequark> nah, not while cutting
2014-03-25 09:34 <whitequark> while removing melted acrylic from it
2014-03-25 09:35 <DocScrutinizer05> you might be able to remove molten acrylic by milling through wood
2014-03-25 09:35 <DocScrutinizer05> with very high RPM
2014-03-25 09:36 <DocScrutinizer05> and moderate, initially dead slow feed
2014-03-25 09:37 <whitequark> nah, I can usually just spin it off with pliers and while spinning the axle manually
2014-03-25 09:37 <whitequark> oh
2014-03-25 09:37 <whitequark> S8000 F1500 was an error
2014-03-25 09:37 <whitequark> I'm out of endmills
2014-03-25 09:37 * whitequark sighs
2014-03-25 09:38 <DocScrutinizer05> now you got plenty of time to think about my various suggestions to build a foce detector into your CNC
2014-03-25 09:38 <DocScrutinizer05> ;-)
2014-03-25 09:39 <DocScrutinizer05> force*
2014-03-25 09:39 <DocScrutinizer05> for carbide tools it won't work with the one suggested solution, since those break before any noticeable bending
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2014-03-25 09:51 <whitequark> best finish I got so far (at S8000 F1000): http://i.imgur.com/kJheXqz.jpg
2014-03-25 09:52 <whitequark> it's even moderately transparent
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2014-03-25 10:05 <wpwrak> whitequark: (painfully slow) my mm/s are mm/s ;-)
2014-03-25 10:07 <wpwrak> looks pretty good. don't expect too much from the mill's finishing powers. if you want it "neat", then it's sanding (many times, with decreasing grain sizes) and polishing
2014-03-25 10:09 <whitequark> mhmm
2014-03-25 10:10 * whitequark glares at http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s57/jollytrapshooter/2012-03-12140819.jpg
2014-03-25 10:10 <wpwrak> (polishing) e.g., with dremel's polishing compound.
2014-03-25 10:10 <wpwrak> this is a not so nice example: http://downloads.qi-hardware.com/people/werner/anelok/tmp/case-top-polished-outside.jpg
2014-03-25 10:11 <whitequark> let me try to put some paper on top of that acrylic. that should make it more hydrophilic
2014-03-25 10:11 <wpwrak> the window is polished, the area around it isn't
2014-03-25 10:11 <whitequark> oh and I still have my 3.175mm endmill
2014-03-25 10:11 <whitequark> could also add water in process to make sure it's in abundance
2014-03-25 10:12 <wpwrak> this is a before and after comparison, again with polishing: before http://downloads.qi-hardware.com/people/werner/anelok/tmp/case-top-diffuse.jpg
2014-03-25 10:12 <wpwrak> and after: http://downloads.qi-hardware.com/people/werner/anelok/tmp/case-top-polished.jpg
2014-03-25 10:13 <wpwrak> if you have larger steps or, much worse, case halves, then you need to sand
2014-03-25 10:13 <wpwrak> there are also alternatives to abrasion, e.g., fire or solvents
2014-03-25 10:13 <whitequark> fire...
2014-03-25 10:14 <wpwrak> for solvents, the "best" seems to be the vapour of a somewhat nasty solvent, forgot which
2014-03-25 10:15 <whitequark> acetone
2014-03-25 10:15 <wpwrak> for fire (i knew you'd like that :), you want a very hot flame. so traditional russian technology should serve you well
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2014-03-25 10:16 <wpwrak> the red stuff in the pictures is that dremel polishing goo. alas, very hard to get rid of
2014-03-25 10:19 <whitequark> ooooh, I just had an excellent idea for how to keep water near work area
2014-03-25 10:19 <whitequark> I noticed the results are best when water turns into that kind of sludge before it's dispersed by the endmill
2014-03-25 10:19 <whitequark> so, what about pouring a gel there?
2014-03-25 10:22 <DocScrutinizer05> that's a cause/result mesup thinking
2014-03-25 10:23 <DocScrutinizer05> water turns into that sludge because it gets micro-circulated by mill, and thus manages to move away the dust from the tool active surface
2014-03-25 10:24 <DocScrutinizer05> when you use gel, no micro circulation, dust stays where it comes into existence, and result will be way inferior
2014-03-25 10:26 <whitequark> hm, good point
2014-03-25 10:26 <DocScrutinizer05> even to the point of gel and dust building up a nice sticky gue on toolbit surface that eventually dries and then melts
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2014-03-25 10:28 <wpwrak> i guess the water could still get squeezed out of the gel. so i wouldn't dismiss the idea. i guess it depends a bit on how watery the gel is
2014-03-25 10:28 <DocScrutinizer05> when your water "rolls" away on the hydrophobic acrylic surface, then use some drops of detergent to add to the water to cure this
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2014-03-25 10:30 <DocScrutinizer05> and, as already suggested, nothing a bit of putty couldn't fix
2014-03-25 10:31 <DocScrutinizer05> make a nice ring forming a mini basin around your milling area
2014-03-25 10:31 <DocScrutinizer05> fill in 1 or 2 mm high of water
2014-03-25 10:32 <DocScrutinizer05> make sure it won't flow out of your basin too fast when you have milled in your first "sink" into the acrylic
2014-03-25 10:32 <wpwrak> then convince it not to leave through the holes you mill ;-)
2014-03-25 10:32 <DocScrutinizer05> faster ;-P
2014-03-25 10:33 * wpwrak needs coffee
2014-03-25 10:33 <DocScrutinizer05> since your acrylic is supposed to be tightly and flush attached to a victim material below, there shouldn't be any noticeable sink path
2014-03-25 10:34 <wpwrak> i went through the liquids ordeal when milling aluminium. there, you need lubrication. messy business.
2014-03-25 10:34 <DocScrutinizer05> yeah, for that you need oil or similar, a mess compared to plain water
2014-03-25 10:35 <wpwrak> indeed. also because the oil acts as solvent for the adhesive tape ...
2014-03-25 10:35 <DocScrutinizer05> usually an emulsion of oil in water gets used for that
2014-03-25 10:36 <DocScrutinizer05> the oily component can be rather low, like maybe 10% or lower
2014-03-25 10:37 <DocScrutinizer05> in german it's called bohrwasser
2014-03-25 10:37 <DocScrutinizer05> http://www.versuchschemie.de/topic,8876,-Bohrwasser+Konservieren.html
2014-03-25 10:40 <wpwrak> i just used plain oil. i need it only for lubrication, not for cooling
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2014-03-25 10:48 <DocScrutinizer05> plain oil is way more messy, and particularly for alu I guess the water even gets active in some way
2014-03-25 10:49 <whitequark> yep it is... if you strip the oxide layer, aluminium is an active metal
2014-03-25 10:50 <DocScrutinizer05> I know. I just think it kinda "kills" or rather dissolves the alu dust
2014-03-25 10:50 <whitequark> no, not that fast
2014-03-25 10:50 <DocScrutinizer05> at least passivates it, so you can remove it easier. Maybe
2014-03-25 10:51 <DocScrutinizer05> for sure plain minaral oil is way more sticky, and with the alu dust mixed in, it's a nasty polish
2014-03-25 10:51 <wpwrak> i've heard that brass and bronce should be self-lubricating. might be better suited for playing with metals if it doesn't have to be Al
2014-03-25 10:52 <DocScrutinizer05> brass particularly self lubricating on steel
2014-03-25 10:53 <whitequark> DocScrutinizer05: air passivates al just as well
2014-03-25 10:53 <DocScrutinizer05> machine builders love that combo, for bearings
2014-03-25 11:18 * whitequark headdesks
2014-03-25 11:18 <whitequark> so I just figured out the hard way that there are exactly two kinds of shower hose thread
2014-03-25 11:18 <whitequark> one with d=22.5mm, and another with d=21.5mm
2014-03-25 11:21 <DocScrutinizer05> o.O
2014-03-25 11:29 <whitequark> apparently one is "imported" and other is "russian"
2014-03-25 11:29 <whitequark> they even looked almost same, which is why I bought wrong one in the first place. neither russian nor western packaging considers necessary to write the diameter on the packaging
2014-03-25 11:29 <whitequark> and I couldn't use my caliper to measure whatever's in plastic
2014-03-25 11:31 <DocScrutinizer05> err, that last one doesn't parse
2014-03-25 11:32 <whitequark> well, the hose was in factory packaging.
2014-03-25 11:32 <DocScrutinizer05> aaah
2014-03-25 11:35 <DocScrutinizer05> never heard of different diameters either
2014-03-25 11:35 <whitequark> well I guess you aren't in russia!
2014-03-25 11:35 <wpwrak> they're probably nominally the same :)
2014-03-25 11:39 <DocScrutinizer05> smells like 3.5mm plugs
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2014-03-25 12:35 <wpwrak> just saw this: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1516846343/microview-chip-sized-arduino-with-built-in-oled-di
2014-03-25 12:36 <wpwrak> it's depressing. a new design, based on AVR. in 2014. yet 10 times over-funded
2014-03-25 12:36 <wpwrak> to make anelok kickstarterable, i think i should say somewhere "Based on 32-bit ARM core, like <B><BLINK><DANCE>Arduino</DANCE></BLINK></B> Due."
2014-03-25 12:36 <larsc> it has a OLED!!! and built-in, imagine the things you could do with that
2014-03-25 12:36 <larsc> I mean the blink pattern possibilities are endless
2014-03-25 12:38 <whitequark> that's depressing, yes.
2014-03-25 12:39 <whitequark> circle! rectangle! wow    so 1st grade geometry     such compexity
2014-03-25 12:39 <wpwrak> it's like having 3072 individual LEDs. you can play with a different one ever hours and it'll still last a whole year !
2014-03-25 12:40 <whitequark> lol
2014-03-25 12:42 <wpwrak> i like their comment on "The huge difference between our 3D Printed and CNC Milled Prototypes." though
2014-03-25 12:44 <wpwrak> whitequark: note what they have to say about polishing :) "Each prototype enclosure took 8 hours to polish by hand! You really need a beer after that!"
2014-03-25 12:46 <whitequark> LOL
2014-03-25 12:47 <whitequark> "handcrafted fresh green electrons delivered by you from local sustainable hackerspaces"
2014-03-25 12:47 <whitequark> something along these lines
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2014-03-25 12:50 <viric> are you laughing of people who know how to make money? :)
2014-03-25 12:51 <whitequark> viric: I am. I never considered money to be the pinnacle of personal achievement
2014-03-25 12:51 <whitequark> I mean, by this measure Putin & co are best of the humanity.
2014-03-25 12:52 <viric> exactly
2014-03-25 12:52 <viric> It requires a mixture of ignorance and malice to make money
2014-03-25 12:53 <viric> but then there is the paradox of knowing how to make money, just to outperform evil people, and then invest the money on things you'd like to grow
2014-03-25 12:53 <whitequark> I won't agree here either, you absolutely can make money on a good cause
2014-03-25 12:53 <whitequark> exactly
2014-03-25 12:53 <viric> *paradox*
2014-03-25 13:20 <wpwrak> keep things simple: 1) define "a good cause" as "me making money". 2) start making money
2014-03-25 13:32 <viric> :)
2014-03-25 14:06 <DocScrutinizer05> thanks for the advice. will do it this way with my next project. After I recovered from this one
2014-03-25 14:22 <eintopf> huhu
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2014-03-25 16:46 <zrafa> wpwrak: swd tests.. we have not done more tests, just last Friday. I have really bad news from tests, so I think that I should write an email to tell you the current story, so others benefit as well if that problem appear for others of course.
2014-03-25 16:46 <zrafa> wpwrak: But, in short: it has not worked yet :(
2014-03-25 16:47 <zrafa> wpwrak: worse, the last two boards we did are okey, and I see some 3.3V from ben
2014-03-25 16:47 <zrafa> +ubb pins so I guess that jlime is not the issue ( I disabled jz mmc driver of course)
2014-03-25 16:48 <zrafa> Then, I think board with mkl26 is okey, and ben+ubb with jlime is working with your swd software as well. But, still nothing from MCU.
2014-03-25 16:48 <zrafa> Every test, every reset, swd werner software and we always get ACK 7 as answer from MCU
2014-03-25 16:48 <zrafa> :(
2014-03-25 16:49 <zrafa> I should write an email = I should write an email to qi hw mailing list I meant
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2014-03-25 16:54 <whitequark> okay... so I jot jigsaw blades
2014-03-25 16:54 <whitequark> lemme try to (not) saw off a finger
2014-03-25 16:54 <whitequark> s,jot,got,
2014-03-25 16:55 <wpwrak> whitequark: pro tip: drink a bit of vodka first. that way, if you miss, it will hurt less.
2014-03-25 16:55 <whitequark> sure, brb
2014-03-25 16:55 <whitequark> wpwrak: in general, how does one select the blade?
2014-03-25 16:55 <wpwrak> pro tip #2: don't drink the entire bottle, so you'll have some desinfectant ready
2014-03-25 16:55 <whitequark> here I have one for 2-15mm, another for 3-30mm
2014-03-25 16:55 <whitequark> what one do I use for 3mm plywood?
2014-03-25 16:56 <wpwrak> guess both should work. i don't really know the magic but i'd pick the one with the smallest teeth.
2014-03-25 16:57 <wpwrak> zrafa: sounds suckish :-( did you try with the scope ?
2014-03-25 16:57 <whitequark> wpwrak: guessed as well
2014-03-25 16:59 <zrafa> wpwrak: no, because I do not have skills for that. And Rodolfo is very busy everyday to give me help. Maybe the electronic engineering student who is working with us could try
2014-03-25 17:00 <wpwrak> zrafa: grab him ! :)
2014-03-25 17:00 <zrafa> wpwrak: btw, we just power the MCU with pin 3 (vdd) and pin4 gnd. Does it need more vdd pins connected?
2014-03-25 17:00 <zrafa> (for example, pin 30 and 48 are vdd as well)
2014-03-25 17:00 <wpwrak> you should always connect all the power pins
2014-03-25 17:01 <wpwrak> not sure what happens in this case if you don't. what package do you have ?
2014-03-25 17:02 <zrafa> mkl26z256vlh4 LQFP/QFN (64 pins)
2014-03-25 17:03 <zrafa> wpwrak: and you suggest to connect all the vss as well?
2014-03-25 17:04 <wpwrak> of course, yes. and don't forget the decoupling caps
2014-03-25 17:05 <wpwrak> while you're at it, you'll also want to add a USB connector
2014-03-25 17:10 <whitequark> this was surprigingly painless
2014-03-25 17:11 <wpwrak> ;-)
2014-03-25 17:12 <whitequark> I mean, my fingers are even mostly intact
2014-03-25 17:12 <wpwrak> oh, then you didn't pass yet
2014-03-25 17:13 <zrafa> wpwrak: decoupling caps.. : reading wikipedia now... :)
2014-03-25 17:13 <wpwrak> if you omit decoupling caps, some of the internal rails could collapse on sudden load changes. not sure how picky the chip is, though.
2014-03-25 17:15 <wpwrak> you basically have to put 1 uF between each VDD/VDD pair. they're next to each other for that reason
2014-03-25 17:16 <wpwrak> and place the caps close to the pins, not centimeters way.
2014-03-25 17:16 <wpwrak> same treatment for VDDA/VSSA and VREFH/VREFL
2014-03-25 17:20 <zrafa> argh.. so we need as well vdda/vssa connected as well??! I wanted to avoid those to save work :)
2014-03-25 17:20 <whitequark> connecting all supply pins is pretty important
2014-03-25 17:20 <whitequark> you'd get really magical behavior otherwise
2014-03-25 17:20 <wpwrak> yeah, connect them as well. they may not really be needed but it's better to be safe than sorry
2014-03-25 17:21 <wpwrak> also, equip the regulator. that way, you can power the board from USB.
2014-03-25 17:21 <wpwrak> see anelok for all the caps and connections
2014-03-25 17:22 <zrafa> wpwrak: ok. We were trying using vdd from ben+ubb
2014-03-25 17:22 <zrafa> to power
2014-03-25 17:23 <wpwrak> your 64 pin package has one VDD/VSS pair more, so you'll need an extra 1 uF cap. but the rest should be the same as with anelok's MKL25Z128VFT4
2014-03-25 17:26 <zrafa> wpwrak: yes, I see those. Thanks a lot for all the tips, we will try to follow all of them for the next try ;)
2014-03-25 17:31 <wpwrak> hmm, my circuit is also a little dodgy. the way i mix USB and battery power isn't entirely clean
2014-03-25 17:32 <whitequark> wpwrak: I think there are dedicated switches?
2014-03-25 17:34 <wpwrak> whitequark: you mean chips ? or switches in the MCU ?
2014-03-25 17:34 <whitequark> chips
2014-03-25 17:35 <wpwrak> well, i'd call them "FET" :)
2014-03-25 17:35 <wpwrak> i actually have one. just not doing that sort of thing.
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2014-03-25 17:35 <whitequark> well... it's like, it already has convenient outputs for detecting power switches and connects right to the typical battery charger IC
2014-03-25 17:36 <whitequark> not strictly necessary but can be convenient and/or takes less place than discrete stuff
2014-03-25 17:36 <wpwrak> ah, but i use primary cells
2014-03-25 17:36 <wpwrak> no fancy charger neenen
2014-03-25 17:36 <wpwrak> neeDed
2014-03-25 17:36 <whitequark> ah
2014-03-25 17:36 <whitequark> no liion? :/
2014-03-25 17:37 <wpwrak> CR2032. all the Li you need :)
2014-03-25 17:38 <whitequark> hm, I think you can recharge CR**** cells
2014-03-25 17:38 <whitequark> ie, they're not actually primary. they're more like rechargeable fuel cells
2014-03-25 17:38 <whitequark> wait, no, that doesn't make sense
2014-03-25 17:38 <whitequark> hm
2014-03-25 17:39 <whitequark> it does, they're not *fuel* cells. methanol there is just as ion transfer medium
2014-03-25 17:39 <whitequark> I think
2014-03-25 17:40 <whitequark> wpwrak: don't PC motherboards actually recharge CR2032 RTC cells?
2014-03-25 17:40 <whitequark> pretty sure they doi
2014-03-25 17:42 <wpwrak> i wouldn't expect them to. they may draw no current while the system has other power, though.
2014-03-25 17:43 <DocScrutinizer05> they definitely don't recharge LiIon primary bupbat
2014-03-25 17:44 <DocScrutinizer05> that's maximum forbidden
2014-03-25 17:44 <wpwrak> zrafa: anelok's VSYS should be the same as VBAT. i.e., connect VOUT33 to all the VDD/VDDA/VREFH pins and also connect the ben 3.3 V to that net
2014-03-25 17:44 <whitequark> DocScrutinizer05: seems like true
2014-03-25 17:45 <whitequark> interesting. so this is a myth. seems quite prevalent in RU though
2014-03-25 17:45 <wpwrak> maybe un RU they do ... to regenerate the Pu, perhaps ? :)
2014-03-25 17:45 <whitequark> wpwrak: btw, metal blades cut acrylic just fine
2014-03-25 17:45 <wpwrak> no Li-ion, just Pu-ion
2014-03-25 17:46 <wpwrak> excellent !
2014-03-25 17:46 <whitequark> the finish is even moderately nice
2014-03-25 17:46 <DocScrutinizer05> pretty simple: power up you rPC, remove CR2032, prbe between + and - of bat holder with ampere meter (ramge 10..100mA)
2014-03-25 17:46 <whitequark> nooope, I only have this PC I bought used. I think it wasn't cleaned in maybe 5 years
2014-03-25 17:46 <whitequark> I'm really just afraid to open it
2014-03-25 17:46 <whitequark> it's better to not know sometimes
2014-03-25 17:48 <DocScrutinizer05> whitequark: re sawing acrylic, see the links i posted this morning
2014-03-25 17:50 <whitequark> mhm
2014-03-25 17:51 <wpwrak> zrafa: maybe put your design on qu-hw or github. that way, we can check it
2014-03-25 18:07 <whitequark> so I wrote the local endmill supplier asking them to sell me some endmills for acrylic
2014-03-25 18:07 <whitequark> hopefully they have a better idea of proper feeds&speeds than me
2014-03-25 18:08 <whitequark> they better do, for the amounts they charge
2014-03-25 18:18 * whitequark looks at eighteen acrylic circles he now posesses
2014-03-25 18:18 <whitequark> wonder if I can do something with them
2014-03-25 18:18 <whitequark> apart from "burn"
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2014-03-25 18:24 <wpwrak> maybe you can use them as feet/spacers some day
2014-03-25 18:28 <whitequark> hm, burned one
2014-03-25 18:28 <whitequark> funny, it doesn't really emit any soot, only slightly stinks, and eventually burns down to nothing
2014-03-25 18:29 <wpwrak> the perfect crime
2014-03-25 18:29 <whitequark> lol
2014-03-25 18:30 <whitequark> also, apparently pmma combustion products aren't even toxic
2014-03-25 18:30 <whitequark> this is so boring
2014-03-25 18:47 <DocScrutinizer05> not at all. acrylic afaik is a component for industrial scale rocket solid fuel
2014-03-25 18:49 <DocScrutinizer05> oh yes, there been that youtube video, somebody used a acrylic cylinder with a hole along the axis, through which he feeds some gas, prolly oxygen
2014-03-25 18:50 <DocScrutinizer05> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DQ2hOH23-zU
2014-03-25 18:53 <DocScrutinizer05> >>every home should just have one of those. It's essential!<< LOL
2014-03-25 18:54 <DocScrutinizer05> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TLPWqCMb7DE
2014-03-25 18:55 <DocScrutinizer05> the latter one shows how to drill acrylic the right way
2014-03-25 18:56 <DocScrutinizer05> it creates one (or 2) long curl of acrylic
2014-03-25 19:07 <DocScrutinizer05> however I think the design like shown in this videos isn't useful yet. You at least need to fix two things: enclose the acrylic into a proper containment that is able to handle the pressure in burning chamber even when the acrylic got hot, and a "constant current" regulation for the the oxygen. The constant pressure regulation is useless
2014-03-25 19:12 <DocScrutinizer05> you easily can change the ordinary constant pressure regulator into a constant "current" one, by feeding back the pressure after the valve you place after that regulator (to adjust the volume of gas passing trough) to the "environment" pressure inlet of the regulator. Simple way to do that: put the whole regulator+valve into a chamber to which the valve's outlet feeds the gas. Then from that chamber you feed the Oxygen to the actual
2014-03-25 19:12 <DocScrutinizer05> motor
2014-03-25 19:15 <whitequark> yep, very cool design
2014-03-25 19:16 <whitequark> (drilling) well, it's really a very different setup
2014-03-25 19:16 <DocScrutinizer05> sure, but it shows how proper drilling looks like, regarding the material taken away
2014-03-25 19:19 <whitequark> ah.
2014-03-25 19:19 <whitequark> I know :)
2014-03-25 19:21 <whitequark> DocScrutinizer05: note though that he uses extruded acrylic and not cast
2014-03-25 19:21 <whitequark> that may have some effect
2014-03-25 19:21 <whitequark> er
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