2014-03-20 00:33 nicksydney_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 2014-03-20 00:33 nicksydney has joined #qi-hardware 2014-03-20 00:38 idundidit has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 2014-03-20 00:40 idundidit has joined #qi-hardware 2014-03-20 01:29 nicksydney has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 2014-03-20 01:31 nicksydney has joined #qi-hardware 2014-03-20 01:38 dos1 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 2014-03-20 02:12 atommann has joined #qi-hardware 2014-03-20 02:29 rz2k has joined #qi-hardware 2014-03-20 02:33 xiangfu has joined #qi-hardware 2014-03-20 03:11 arielenter has joined #qi-hardware 2014-03-20 04:22 arielenter has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 2014-03-20 04:22 arielenter has joined #qi-hardware 2014-03-20 05:07 wpwrak: no, it absolutely does get in the way 2014-03-20 05:08 first, the raised edge cuts resist, means the soft underbelly of metal-plated holes is not protected from etchant 2014-03-20 05:08 second, when it's high enough, it even warps resist, lowering quality substantially 2014-03-20 05:08 third, there's some weird-ass interaction with plating bath, which results in huge copper crystals growing on all discontinuites 2014-03-20 05:09 nicksydney has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 2014-03-20 05:09 I *think* it's somehow related to current density 2014-03-20 05:09 freespace has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 2014-03-20 05:09 I mean, like corona discharge. don't know if I'm right, though 2014-03-20 05:15 hmmm, I think endmills worked much better for drilling holes than drills, might want to try that 2014-03-20 05:20 root_empire has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 2014-03-20 05:47 xiangfu has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 2014-03-20 05:48 arielenter has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 2014-03-20 05:50 xiangfu has joined #qi-hardware 2014-03-20 05:55 freespace has joined #qi-hardware 2014-03-20 06:10 freespace has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 2014-03-20 06:10 freespace has joined #qi-hardware 2014-03-20 06:13 xiangfu has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 2014-03-20 06:14 xiangfu has joined #qi-hardware 2014-03-20 06:19 xiangfu_ has joined #qi-hardware 2014-03-20 06:22 xiangfu has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 2014-03-20 06:26 wolfspraul has joined #qi-hardware 2014-03-20 06:34 rz2k has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 2014-03-20 06:49 nicksydney has joined #qi-hardware 2014-03-20 06:49 wpwrak: http://hackaday.com/2014/03/19/meet-lynx-a-costly-offline-password-keeper/ 2014-03-20 06:56 xiangfu_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 2014-03-20 07:02 xiangfu has joined #qi-hardware 2014-03-20 07:46 jekhor_ has joined #qi-hardware 2014-03-20 07:52 rz2k has joined #qi-hardware 2014-03-20 07:58 atommann_ has joined #qi-hardware 2014-03-20 08:00 atommann has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 2014-03-20 08:04 atommann_ has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 2014-03-20 08:13 atommann_ has joined #qi-hardware 2014-03-20 08:13 hmm. the hardware doesn't sound all that exciting. sw .. hmm, xor with (fixed ?) key stored in the MCU ... 2014-03-20 08:23 they just wanted to be the first to monetize the idea 2014-03-20 08:28 pcercuei has joined #qi-hardware 2014-03-20 08:28 wow. just... wow. I've read recently that persulphates are good for preparing a microporous surface 2014-03-20 08:29 so I decided to check whether photoresist has better adhesion on such a surface 2014-03-20 08:29 I put the board in persulphate for literally five seconds, the results are amazing. it's like using an entirely different process. 2014-03-20 08:29 and, how's the new apartment ? 2014-03-20 08:29 if before, I've had to be extra careful to not tear off the fragile layer, now it's entirely opposite 2014-03-20 08:30 it adheres so fucking well I'm actually having problems stripping the resist layer after I don't need it 2014-03-20 08:30 awesome 2014-03-20 08:30 ah, the non-explosive kind of surprise. how boring. 2014-03-20 08:30 wpwrak: it's pretty good, thanks 2014-03-20 08:30 oh and the look and feel of the PCB+resist is entirely different too. 2014-03-20 08:31 pcercuei: hehe, that was actually for whitequark. but i'm glad that you're happy with yours as well :-) how's .de ? first signs of spring yet ? 2014-03-20 08:32 it really does remind me of photos from industrial processes. the photoshopped ones they show you in marketing leaflets :p 2014-03-20 08:32 very smooth 2014-03-20 08:33 wpwrak: actually yes, we're getting like 18°C today and 20°C tomorroz 2014-03-20 08:33 tomorrow* 2014-03-20 08:33 oh, nice. time for having beers outside :) 2014-03-20 08:34 too bad that when I come out of the office the sun is almost gone >.> 2014-03-20 08:34 wpwrak: http://imgur.com/ZVFNu8B,J07VwDw 2014-03-20 08:35 lunch break ? 2014-03-20 08:35 some parts are actually fubar. that's simply because I was using old values for my process 2014-03-20 08:36 and goddamn printer is printing bullshit AGAIN 2014-03-20 08:36 I'm starting to really hate this devil's spawn 2014-03-20 08:36 looks nice (apart from the offsets) 2014-03-20 08:36 (nice) well, not quite. look closely at edges. 2014-03-20 08:36 GDI crap ? 2014-03-20 08:37 they're not very clean. but this is easily fixable. and I never, ever, had such amazingly good adhesion 2014-03-20 08:37 (GDI) hm, no 2014-03-20 08:37 it's not postscript but I think not GDI too 2014-03-20 08:37 edges tend to be difficult under any circumstances 2014-03-20 08:39 well, "difficult" is the second name for my job here :p 2014-03-20 08:50 jekhor_ has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 2014-03-20 09:06 wpwrak: I guess you are aware of http://hackaday.com/2014/03/19/meet-lynx-a-costly-offline-password-keeper/ 2014-03-20 09:06 ah ok already pasted 2014-03-20 09:06 sorry 2014-03-20 09:12 pcercuei: chat less, work more, then you can leave earlier ;) 2014-03-20 09:12 maybe 2014-03-20 09:21 D: 2014-03-20 10:30 atommann_ has quit [Quit: Leaving] 2014-03-20 10:55 wpwrak: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BjKjICeCUAEZAFm.jpg:large 2014-03-20 10:55 my notebook hinge broke and I had to make a thing 2014-03-20 10:56 xiangfu has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 2014-03-20 11:20 jluis has joined #qi-hardware 2014-03-20 11:22 atommann has joined #qi-hardware 2014-03-20 12:16 cnc-milled, i hope ? 2014-03-20 12:17 of course 2014-03-20 12:17 https://gist.github.com/whitequark/9661239 2014-03-20 12:18 I finally figured out how cutter compensation works, yay 2014-03-20 12:18 width* 2014-03-20 12:20 wpwrak: I'm absolutely unable to cut anything harder than paper in straight lines. 2014-03-20 12:20 there's probably some trick to that. I'm not aware of it. 2014-03-20 12:22 maybe you 2014-03-20 12:22 re going too fast ? 2014-03-20 12:23 or you're using drills as endmills 2014-03-20 12:23 nonononono 2014-03-20 12:23 by hand. 2014-03-20 12:23 CNC works just fine 2014-03-20 12:23 oh :) 2014-03-20 12:23 well, sometimes it does not, but that's shitty fixture mainly 2014-03-20 12:23 well, then don't worry. and welcome to augmented reality ;-) 2014-03-20 12:23 augmented reality? 2014-03-20 12:24 using the term loosely ;-) 2014-03-20 12:24 you mean cutting stuff up with CNC? well, you see 2014-03-20 12:24 I have to pre-cut material to smaller pieces for my CNC to chew on 2014-03-20 12:24 and that is a *nightmare* 2014-03-20 12:24 * whitequark casts a glare full of vicious hate on a hand saw 2014-03-20 12:25 use a jig saw ? 2014-03-20 12:25 I'm a bit afraid for my fingers 2014-03-20 12:27 just strictly apply pauli's exclusion principle :) 2014-03-20 12:27 hehe 2014-03-20 12:27 strictly saying, it happens *because of* pauli's exclusion principle 2014-03-20 12:28 besides, as long as you're cautious, you're rather unlikely to get hurt. these machines aren't particularly unsafe per se and most accidents happen when people get careless 2014-03-20 12:29 well, let's say I'm not particularly strong. unless you mean fingers. :). I'm kind of afraid that the machine will want to go somewhere and I'd be unable to stop it. 2014-03-20 12:29 it packs quite a bunch of power for that matter. 2014-03-20 12:31 if it goes out of control, turn it off :) 2014-03-20 12:31 mhm 2014-03-20 12:31 right :) 2014-03-20 12:31 jekhor has joined #qi-hardware 2014-03-20 12:31 if it jumps and dances around, then you probably have an unsuitable blade 2014-03-20 12:32 or you didn't fix the piece properly. 2014-03-20 12:34 unrelated: by a chance, I stumbled upon another reagent that can be used for surface activation for copper plating 2014-03-20 12:34 it's copper(II) tartrate 2014-03-20 12:35 *that* I'm sure is not present on any precursor list, and pyrolysis t° seems to be under 200°C (140°C for sodium tartrate, but copper will likely be different) 2014-03-20 12:35 also, should be easily obtainable 2014-03-20 12:36 oooh neat, this time I went much much slower with the plating process itself (limited current to 10mA), and also added Cl¯ ions to bath and made it slightly more acidic 2014-03-20 12:37 seems a nice smooth layer of copper is growing inside holes 2014-03-20 12:37 i think the drug designers need to work a little harder and always point out when they involve water in their process. that should get that pesky liquid banned, too :) 2014-03-20 12:37 next try I'll need to dry the activator more carefully. it boiled on PCB, and as a result I have a very flakey layer of copper deposited 2014-03-20 12:37 so what I really need is to first dry it under 100°C and *then* decompose at 150° 2014-03-20 12:38 * whitequark ponders refitting the oven he has with a thermo-profile-able PID controller 2014-03-20 12:41 that often seems to be necessary 2014-03-20 12:42 hmm. I just realized what the black residue after pyrolysis is 2014-03-20 12:42 that's CuO 2014-03-20 12:42 seems there's a race between decomposition to CuO and to Cu 2014-03-20 12:43 hmm, mateallic, heck. yellowish, check. alas, still not gold. back to the alchemy books ... 2014-03-20 12:43 hehe 2014-03-20 12:55 rz2k has quit [] 2014-03-20 13:00 atommann has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 2014-03-20 13:11 atommann has joined #qi-hardware 2014-03-20 13:26 inert gas ? 2014-03-20 13:27 or is the oxygen from one of the chemicals involved? 2014-03-20 13:28 seems quite natural to me when elementary copper that just pops into existence from a decomposition, at a high temperature, thends to grab some O2 when some is around 2014-03-20 13:28 tends* 2014-03-20 13:32 FDCX has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 2014-03-20 13:35 DocScrutinizer05: well yeah 2014-03-20 13:35 inert gas is too hard 2014-03-20 13:35 probably. hm. maybe not, if it's N2 2014-03-20 13:35 still a lot of hassle 2014-03-20 13:35 anyway take a look? http://i.imgur.com/FxDXLnR.jpg 2014-03-20 13:44 pcercuei_ has joined #qi-hardware 2014-03-20 13:47 pcercuei has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 2014-03-20 13:47 FDCX has joined #qi-hardware 2014-03-20 13:49 ok, I confirmed: there's both electrical conductivity and capillary effect for solver 2014-03-20 13:49 *solder 2014-03-20 13:49 so... I did basic plated throughhole board? this was really much easier than I thought 2014-03-20 13:53 jekhor has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 2014-03-20 14:20 michael_lee has joined #qi-hardware 2014-03-20 14:30 dandon has quit [Quit: .] 2014-03-20 14:45 arielenter has joined #qi-hardware 2014-03-20 14:55 hmm, something seems to move around a lot. maybe it's not the board but the head ? 2014-03-20 14:55 e.g., look at the "exit holes" where the mill was inserted or retracted 2014-03-20 14:55 that would also explain all the burr 2014-03-20 14:59 atommann has quit [Quit: Leaving] 2014-03-20 15:01 hm, yes, exit holes 2014-03-20 15:01 it's a bit weird 2014-03-20 15:05 arielenter has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 2014-03-20 15:08 dandon has joined #qi-hardware 2014-03-20 16:31 jluis has quit [Quit: Me'n vaig] 2014-03-20 16:33 arielenter has joined #qi-hardware 2014-03-20 16:38 wej has joined #qi-hardware 2014-03-20 16:49 pcercuei_ has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 2014-03-20 17:10 arielenter has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 2014-03-20 17:12 dos1 has joined #qi-hardware 2014-03-20 17:15 arielenter has joined #qi-hardware 2014-03-20 17:51 rz2k has joined #qi-hardware 2014-03-20 18:23 rz2k has quit [] 2014-03-20 18:55 jekhor has joined #qi-hardware 2014-03-20 19:58 jekhor has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 2014-03-20 19:59 jekhor has joined #qi-hardware 2014-03-20 20:02 whitequark: nice! 2014-03-20 20:05 but those ends on the long holes are really weird. Like if Z axis movement causes whole spindle motor to tilt 2014-03-20 20:12 michael_lee has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 2014-03-20 20:13 maybe some of your bearings have some play/gap? 2014-03-20 20:32 (( inert gas is too hard)) heard you own some magic soup called Galden? 2014-03-20 20:33 or is that Cu-oxyde forming in a liquid phase of the process? 2014-03-20 21:10 dandon has quit [Quit: reboot beboot] 2014-03-20 21:30 dandon has joined #qi-hardware 2014-03-20 21:49 FDCX has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 2014-03-20 21:50 FDCX has joined #qi-hardware 2014-03-20 22:23 ((http://i.imgur.com/FxDXLnR.jpg)) I still don't grok it. I just thought it might be tangential force created by spinning mill vs PCB which in turn bends the mill itself. But that would mean that some of those and serifs should be other way round than they actually are 2014-03-20 22:25 whitequark: how about starting and ending toolpath in the middle of a linear cut instead of at the end? 2014-03-20 22:27 you should mill 8 squares, with their particular toolpath starting at 12o'clock 3, 6, 9, and in the 4 corners at 1:30 4:30 7:30 10:30 2014-03-20 22:31 wait, how did you fix your PCB? thick doublesided (white) sticky tape? Then this might have some elastic/plastic properties, causing the PCB to slowly move away from the mill due to pressure the mill applies to PCB laterally 2014-03-20 22:33 so when you start toolpath, you mill into "upper" direction (in http://i.imgur.com/FxDXLnR.jpg, above the 5 holes) further than when you end at that point after cutting the upper line which moved PCB upward slowly in the elastic sticky 2014-03-20 22:36 this would mean your toolpath started exactly left upper right of http://wstaw.org/m/2014/03/20/plasma-desktopOx3389.png and went counter-clockwise until it came to same point from right and ended there 2014-03-20 22:37 ...while the other long hole left of this would have clockwise toolpath 2014-03-20 22:39 you should check if width of the trench is exactly what you specified and expected, or if only the serif has the correct height resp "width" in reference to the "lower" wall of trench 2014-03-20 23:28 jekhor has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]