2014-03-19 00:00 whereas FeCl3, CuCl2 and others apparently do not 2014-03-19 00:00 that'll explain a few things 2014-03-19 00:09 arielenter has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 2014-03-19 00:17 arielenter has joined #qi-hardware 2014-03-19 00:32 wolfspra1l has joined #qi-hardware 2014-03-19 00:35 wolfspraul has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 2014-03-19 00:36 DocScrutinizer05: hm, wild idea 2014-03-19 00:37 retrofit an used inkjet to print silkscreen right on pcb 2014-03-19 00:39 wow, russian forums seem to be chock full of people making amazing PCBs 2014-03-19 00:39 http://electronix.ru/forum/index.php?act=attach&type=post&id=60175 2014-03-19 00:39 arielenter has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 2014-03-19 00:39 arielenter has joined #qi-hardware 2014-03-19 00:41 ((retrofit an used inkjet)) seems I already suggested that? 2014-03-19 00:42 actually mounting the inkjet print head to your CNC will be way more convenient 2014-03-19 00:43 hmm 2014-03-19 00:44 well I still have no idea for sanely attaching *anything* to my CNC 2014-03-19 00:47 (more acid research) i heard HF is fun, too. and it's not HCl, so you don't have to be afraid of it ;-) 2014-03-19 00:48 arielenter has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 2014-03-19 00:51 * whitequark slaps wpwrak around a bit with a large trout 2014-03-19 00:51 also I didn't mention acid even once 2014-03-19 00:51 I actually found a fascinating basic method of etching, using copper ammonia complexes 2014-03-19 00:52 but I'm reluctant to check it out because 1) basic solutions degrade resist 2) it involves using about 0.5L of ammonia water 2014-03-19 00:52 speaking of FUN, did you know that UF4 + 3 UN + 1/2 N2 -> 4 UNF aka FUN ? :) 2014-03-19 00:52 I can't even imagine that horrendous stench 2014-03-19 00:53 no 2014-03-19 00:53 and I don't really want to enrich uranium 2014-03-19 00:54 hmm, i didn't find NH3 too repulsive. but maybe that was just because there weren't a lot of cats around to serve as reference 2014-03-19 00:54 (uranium) c'mon. if you keep on talking like this, they'll revoke your russian citizenship 2014-03-19 00:56 wpwrak: well, seems like you haven't worked with 30% NH3 then 2014-03-19 00:56 when I got it I wondered how it smells. despite doing everything properly I got some experience I will likely never forget 2014-03-19 00:57 not entirely unlike being punched in head 2014-03-19 00:58 dunno how strong it was. this kind of critter: http://wunderbare80er.blogspot.com.ar/2011/10/kosmos-chemiebaukasten.html 2014-03-19 00:58 but you had to get the liquids from a pharmacy 2014-03-19 00:59 not sure. my one is from a chemical supplier. pharmacies most likely don't sell such concentrated solutions 2014-03-19 01:00 diluted 5-10x (and with concentration further reduced by complex forming) the stench is entirely reasonable 2014-03-19 01:02 hah, found it. NH3, 25% 2014-03-19 01:05 sounds about right 2014-03-19 01:06 H2SO4 30%, HNO3 30%, HCl 20% (sissies !), NaOH 25%, and NH3 25% 2014-03-19 01:06 so... you can smell that and not wish you'd rather be dead? 2014-03-19 01:06 hah, concentrated HNO3. what for? 2014-03-19 01:06 everything from the pharmacy, almost next door, in switzerland 2014-03-19 01:06 hmmm 2014-03-19 01:06 wow 2014-03-19 01:06 I thought europe regulated the shit out of chemical supplies 2014-03-19 01:06 okay, I'm now definitely more happy about possible relocation to EU :D 2014-03-19 01:08 yummy goodies like AgNO3, BaCl2, and K2Cr2O7 came already with the box :) 2014-03-19 01:09 K2Cr2O7!! 2014-03-19 01:09 I certainly hope you read the MSDS for that :p 2014-03-19 01:10 btw, I just had an idea 2014-03-19 01:10 EU and US regulate the crap out of hypophosphite 2014-03-19 01:10 well, it had a warning label "Attention, toxic !" :) 2014-03-19 01:10 but it is likely that they don't care about dilute solutions of hypophosphite 2014-03-19 01:10 so maybe it's possible to mail that 2014-03-19 01:11 wpwrak: (toxic) nah. well, it is, but worse, it's a very potent carcinogen 2014-03-19 01:11 would be sad to lose you so quickly 2014-03-19 01:13 * wpwrak - upon realizing what he has done decades ago - croaks instantly 2014-03-19 01:14 HNO3 ... dunno. can't find a complete manual online :( 2014-03-19 01:24 wpwrak: what have you done? 2014-03-19 01:24 lemme guess, bichromate volcano? 2014-03-19 01:25 heh, that would have been fun :) 2014-03-19 01:25 FSVO fun... *shrug* 2014-03-19 01:25 * whitequark tries to thermally decompose hypophosphite now 2014-03-19 01:26 i actually did experiment with a bit of volcanoes but i think i stayed with relatively safe chemicals 2014-03-19 01:27 wow, appears to have worked 2014-03-19 01:28 ((30% NH3)) I did. Iodine Ammonia 2014-03-19 01:28 well no doubts here 2014-03-19 01:28 :D 2014-03-19 01:29 fun when eyes start burning and tears flow 2014-03-19 01:29 we tried to do this in HS, but it didn't get quite dry enough or something 2014-03-19 01:29 so it failed 2014-03-19 01:29 and that stuff can really make you feel like suffocating 2014-03-19 01:30 backside of usual bathroom tiles is *great* fro drying Iodine Ammonia 2014-03-19 01:30 but you really should open all windows ;-) 2014-03-19 01:30 for several very good reasons 2014-03-19 01:30 well, in HS we had a proper hume food 2014-03-19 01:30 er 2014-03-19 01:30 fume ohod 2014-03-19 01:30 hood 2014-03-19 01:30 guess I really need to chew something 2014-03-19 01:31 weirdest experience been when that stuff started smoking while drying 2014-03-19 01:31 unreacted iodine? 2014-03-19 01:31 possibly 2014-03-19 01:31 arielenter has joined #qi-hardware 2014-03-19 01:32 I created saturated KaJ + J solution 2014-03-19 01:32 maybe it tripped the saturation point when KaJ got diluted in Ammonia 2014-03-19 01:32 ah, and i produced a bit of air freshener at school. H2S. now i know that i got off very lightly ;-) 2014-03-19 01:34 arielenter has quit [Client Quit] 2014-03-19 01:34 arielenter has joined #qi-hardware 2014-03-19 01:35 arielenter has quit [Client Quit] 2014-03-19 01:35 mhmm 2014-03-19 01:35 possible 2014-03-19 01:37 http://imgur.com/MLpvFNE,dgR3UFy,BDLgINm 2014-03-19 01:37 arielenter has joined #qi-hardware 2014-03-19 01:40 arielenter has quit [Client Quit] 2014-03-19 01:54 atommann has joined #qi-hardware 2014-03-19 01:54 fun OT factoid (that maybe shows a bit about my life): 12 months ago my energy supplier calculated monthly downpay for me, based on previous 12 months, now they recalculated based on last 12 months. Difference: 1,3% 2014-03-19 01:55 not sure what it menas 2014-03-19 01:55 *means 2014-03-19 01:56 seems always-on of a few IT and LED lamps results in an amazingly constant over-all consumption. I only wonder how my 28kW waterheater comes in there 2014-03-19 01:57 LED lamps, didn't you rant here about incandescent quite a bit? 2014-03-19 01:58 yes, I said it's a pity they are not available anymore 2014-03-19 01:59 ah 2014-03-19 01:59 * whitequark uses fluorescent... couldn't quite find good LED lamps for my socket 2014-03-19 01:59 when I really started ranting then about Hg-filled "energy saver" FL lamps 2014-03-19 02:00 which go dark after a year at most, when they don't break completely before that timespan 2014-03-19 02:01 last time my fuse tripped been from a energysaver CFL-lamp 2014-03-19 02:01 :-/ 2014-03-19 02:01 mhm, maybe I'm less sensitive, but these CFL lamps don't burn out in a year 2014-03-19 02:01 in a five maybe 2014-03-19 02:01 maybe yours are better quality. Russian quality? ;-) 2014-03-19 02:02 chinese ofcourse 2014-03-19 02:02 well, I used up three of those critters during last 5 years 2014-03-19 02:02 russia maybe does only those huge lamps used in street lights, or maybe those long rods you see in industrial/government buildings 2014-03-19 02:02 I think two failed after maybe 1000h 2014-03-19 02:02 they seem pretty simple to fuck up 2014-03-19 02:03 xiangfu has joined #qi-hardware 2014-03-19 02:03 umm, s/CFL/CCFL/ ? 2014-03-19 02:03 Cold Cathode 2014-03-19 02:03 ccfl 2014-03-19 02:04 though *some* of those energywaster have even heated cathodes 2014-03-19 02:05 I know a guy who was anal enough about lighting that he bought a quartz lamp somewhere overseas, rated for I don't even know how much kW 2014-03-19 02:05 when asked, he told me "I like my workplace brightly lit" 2014-03-19 02:06 well a week after he bought it, he got a visit from law enforcement. door torn from his hands or even broken (can't remember), him lying face down on the floor 2014-03-19 02:07 turns out similar lamps (with different spectrum) are used to grow cannabis, and his package tripped something at customs 2014-03-19 02:10 LOL 2014-03-19 02:11 yeah, those HQL are fine for growing plants 2014-03-19 02:11 but, honestly, way too bright for working 2014-03-19 02:12 well, mine was an insane 400W 2014-03-19 02:12 http://www.mueller-licht.de/en/lamps/energy-saving-lamps/spiral-shape-e27 comes with pre-heating, so no CC 2014-03-19 02:13 they need to do this since they use amalgam instead of liquid pure Hg 2014-03-19 02:13 aiui 2014-03-19 02:14 kinda works 2014-03-19 02:14 IOW that one shines since 2 years 24/7 almost 2014-03-19 02:14 with ~5 on/off sycles per day 2014-03-19 02:16 2 Phillips, 2 Osram, and one Pleomax are waiting for getting discarded 2014-03-19 02:16 3 orsram 2014-03-19 02:17 :-S 2014-03-19 02:17 makes more than one per year 2014-03-19 02:31 dos1 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 2014-03-19 02:34 xiangfu has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 2014-03-19 02:46 anyway, any detals about that etching magics? 2014-03-19 02:46 details 2014-03-19 03:00 kristianpaul has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 2014-03-19 03:28 kristianpaul has joined #qi-hardware 2014-03-19 03:28 kristianpaul has joined #qi-hardware 2014-03-19 03:38 Luke-Jr has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 2014-03-19 03:59 arielenter has joined #qi-hardware 2014-03-19 04:36 michael_lee has joined #qi-hardware 2014-03-19 04:36 Luke-Jr has joined #qi-hardware 2014-03-19 04:38 michael_lee has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 2014-03-19 04:40 michael_lee has joined #qi-hardware 2014-03-19 04:40 xiangfu has joined #qi-hardware 2014-03-19 04:41 arielenter has quit [Read error: Connection timed out] 2014-03-19 04:47 michael_lee has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 2014-03-19 04:47 DocScrutinizer05: working on it right now 2014-03-19 04:48 michael_lee has joined #qi-hardware 2014-03-19 04:50 DocScrutinizer05: in some 40 mins I'll take pcb out of plating bath 2014-03-19 04:50 we'll see then 2014-03-19 04:54 DocScrutinizer05: you know what is most impressive 2014-03-19 04:54 I didn't use any copper brightener whatsoever, neither I added acid or NaCl to the bath 2014-03-19 04:54 yet the copper layer seems to be pretty smooth so far 2014-03-19 04:54 luck? 2014-03-19 04:54 I mean, I basically go against any established principles of copper plating 2014-03-19 04:55 (because I'm lazy and I don't have any acid right now) 2014-03-19 04:55 michael_lee has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 2014-03-19 05:07 I wonder why current has grown from .15mA to .25mA over last 30 mins 2014-03-19 05:15 michael_lee has joined #qi-hardware 2014-03-19 05:18 michael_lee has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 2014-03-19 05:19 michael_lee has joined #qi-hardware 2014-03-19 05:28 michael_lee has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 2014-03-19 05:28 michael_lee has joined #qi-hardware 2014-03-19 05:54 ok, should be done 2014-03-19 05:56 ... 2014-03-19 05:56 seems like it worked \o/ 2014-03-19 05:56 wow, I didn't even expect this 2014-03-19 05:58 how the fuck do I take a photo of an 1mm hole?! 2014-03-19 06:02 http://imgur.com/bBW2Cd2,FfsoIT5 2014-03-19 06:03 that is, um, a rather odd result 2014-03-19 06:03 actually there was so much copper plated that holes became too small! 2014-03-19 06:06 seems like I need a more even layer of activation solution on board 2014-03-19 07:20 wpwrak: DocScrutinizer05: https://code.google.com/p/rtstepperemc/ 2014-03-19 07:20 basically exactly what I wanted to do with EMC2 2014-03-19 07:20 though I wonder if it even works 2014-03-19 07:40 jekhor has joined #qi-hardware 2014-03-19 08:02 pcercuei has joined #qi-hardware 2014-03-19 08:19 sounds sweet :) 2014-03-19 09:03 nicksydney has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 2014-03-19 09:04 nicksydney has joined #qi-hardware 2014-03-19 09:22 wpwrak: how do you deal with burr around drilled holes in pcbs? 2014-03-19 09:22 I have a rather extreme problem with it 2014-03-19 09:22 in fact some of the raised edges I have are almost 1mm in height 2014-03-19 09:24 jekhor has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 2014-03-19 09:44 xiangfu has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 2014-03-19 09:45 rz2k has joined #qi-hardware 2014-03-19 09:46 xiangfu has joined #qi-hardware 2014-03-19 09:56 xiangfu has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 2014-03-19 10:26 atommann has quit [Quit: Leaving] 2014-03-19 10:29 jekhor has joined #qi-hardware 2014-03-19 10:55 FDCX has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 2014-03-19 11:03 whitequark: burr ? in holes ? never heard of it :) 2014-03-19 11:04 at least not for the small ones, for vias. may be different if i made huge holes 2014-03-19 11:06 burr is usually favoured by dull cutting edges. maybe weak fixtures may also be a factor (though mine aren't exactly fortresses) 2014-03-19 11:15 jekhor has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 2014-03-19 11:31 no, around holes 2014-03-19 11:31 lifted copper around them on both sides 2014-03-19 11:36 hrmm... I may have had some limited success with plating 2014-03-19 11:36 but solder sure as hell isn't pulled by capillary effect into those holes 2014-03-19 11:36 meaning they're unsuitable for actual work. 2014-03-19 11:36 guess I need to figure out the proper bath finally. 2014-03-19 11:37 interesting though; while the plated layer does come off in flakes, it requires quite some muscular effort to do so 2014-03-19 11:37 e.g. I would say the force is comparable with force required to tear off factory laminated copper, if you have a lifted corner 2014-03-19 11:38 (in flakes) i.e. it nevertheless bonds to itself much stronger than to underlying copper or dielectric 2014-03-19 11:40 (drill) what Z speed do you use ? 2014-03-19 12:19 wpwrak: yes, but in libswd/ we have cc25*.c which is built by Makefile and used by ben.c . So I needed to comment those parts of ben.c so I can build the swd software to try with our mcu 2014-03-19 12:20 without CC* stuff 2014-03-19 12:29 well, you could just leave it in and ignore it. it doesn't get in the way. 2014-03-19 13:00 atommann has joined #qi-hardware 2014-03-19 13:12 rz2k has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 2014-03-19 13:43 pcercuei_ has joined #qi-hardware 2014-03-19 13:47 pcercuei has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 2014-03-19 15:34 atommann has quit [Quit: Leaving] 2014-03-19 15:40 FDCX has joined #qi-hardware 2014-03-19 15:51 pcercuei_ has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 2014-03-19 15:51 jekhor has joined #qi-hardware 2014-03-19 16:00 jekhor has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 2014-03-19 16:08 jekhor has joined #qi-hardware 2014-03-19 16:12 jekhor has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 2014-03-19 16:13 arielenter has joined #qi-hardware 2014-03-19 16:13 jekhor has joined #qi-hardware 2014-03-19 16:17 jekhor_ has joined #qi-hardware 2014-03-19 16:19 jekhor has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 2014-03-19 16:57 wpwrak: What waveform generator do you have? 2014-03-19 17:02 arielenter has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 2014-03-19 17:07 arielenter has joined #qi-hardware 2014-03-19 17:29 picotest g5100a 2014-03-19 17:36 dos1 has joined #qi-hardware 2014-03-19 17:51 snufkin has joined #qi-hardware 2014-03-19 17:58 jekhor_ has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 2014-03-19 18:33 snufkintardis has joined #qi-hardware 2014-03-19 18:36 snufkin has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 2014-03-19 18:36 snufkintardis has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 2014-03-19 18:37 snufkintardis has joined #qi-hardware 2014-03-19 19:12 wej has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 2014-03-19 19:15 idundidit has joined #qi-hardware 2014-03-19 19:25 jekhor_ has joined #qi-hardware 2014-03-19 19:25 wej has joined #qi-hardware 2014-03-19 20:05 dos1 has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 2014-03-19 20:09 dos1 has joined #qi-hardware 2014-03-19 20:25 snufkintardis has quit [Quit: Leaving] 2014-03-19 20:47 pcercueiS2 has joined #qi-hardware 2014-03-19 21:15 arielenter has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 2014-03-19 21:18 wej has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 2014-03-19 21:31 arielenter has joined #qi-hardware 2014-03-19 21:34 qi-bot has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 2014-03-19 21:50 nicksydney has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 2014-03-19 21:50 nicksydney_ has joined #qi-hardware 2014-03-19 22:08 nicksydney has joined #qi-hardware 2014-03-19 22:08 nicksydney_ has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 2014-03-19 22:17 nicksydney_ has joined #qi-hardware 2014-03-19 22:18 nicksydney has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 2014-03-19 22:27 qi-bot has joined #qi-hardware 2014-03-19 22:27 wolfspra1l has quit [Quit: leaving] 2014-03-19 22:28 pcercueiS2 has quit [Quit: Yaaic - Yet another Android IRC client - http://www.yaaic.org] 2014-03-19 22:38 arielenter has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 2014-03-19 22:48 root_empire has joined #qi-hardware 2014-03-19 22:49 FDCX has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 2014-03-19 22:52 michael_lee has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 2014-03-19 23:04 FDCX has joined #qi-hardware 2014-03-19 23:34 jekhor_ has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]