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2014-03-15 00:10 <zrafa> wpwrak: my WWII scope which rodo gave me
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2014-03-15 00:19 <wpwrak> zrafa: hmm, better than nothing ... though not much :(
2014-03-15 00:20 <wpwrak> zrafa: as a first test, you could look at VDD and nRESET. trigger on nRESET falling. then see if VDD is stable. pick a slow time basis, something like 10 ms/div or slower.
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2014-03-15 00:21 <wpwrak> zrafa: if that looks okay, proceed with SWD_CLK vs. nRESET. see if the clock pulses appear and whether they have a good shape.
2014-03-15 00:22 <wpwrak> zrafa: finally, you'd go to SWD_DIO vs. SWD_CLK, triggering on SWD_CLK. that will show you a lot of things ... if they stay on the screen long enough
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2014-03-15 00:22 <wpwrak> you really need to get a DSO for such things :)
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2014-03-15 00:41 <zrafa> wpwrak: I will try and let you know how our experiments go ;)
2014-03-15 00:44 <zrafa> thanks a lot btw
2014-03-15 00:52 <wpwrak> no problem :)
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2014-03-15 01:14 <whitequa1k> DocScrutinizer05: (putin) true
2014-03-15 01:14 <whitequa1k> (mass media) no, they did better. they just destroyed whatever they could (all lenta.ru staff basically resigned) and then blocked everything else
2014-03-15 01:14 <whitequa1k> there's a huge (government-known) protest scheduled tomorrow
2014-03-15 01:14 <whitequa1k> today actually
2014-03-15 01:15 <whitequa1k> I'm pondering going there but not quite sure. people were beaten and imprisoned for months before...
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2014-03-15 01:23 <nicksydney> DocScrutinizer05: might find this interesting http://gigaom.com/2014/03/14/holland-says-yes-to-the-network-agnostic-sim-card/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed:+jkOnTheRun+%28GigaOM:+Mobile%29
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2014-03-15 03:16 <kyak> DocScrutinizer05: so you have your own opinion on Ukraine subject? That's great!
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2014-03-15 07:21 * whitequark tries not to cry while watching http://thedailyshow.cc.com/videos/gtb1g6/csi--crimea-scene-investigation
2014-03-15 07:22 <whitequark> before you ask: I've checked and all the news fragments they're using are genuine
2014-03-15 07:33 <whitequark> wpwrak: http://imgur.com/Cp2rUu6 any idea wtf is this?
2014-03-15 07:47 <whitequark> also: http://imgur.com/hUoqSnb,sU97KK4#1
2014-03-15 08:46 <whitequark> wpwrak: also, those cheap .2mm endmills are worthless
2014-03-15 08:47 <whitequark> the deflection is up to a millimeter. the head travels in a straight line at 10 or 20 mm/min, the end of the endmill travels in huge circles almost up to 1mm in dia
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2014-03-15 09:07 * kyak doesn't cry at all while watching https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iej-kuaN1Mg
2014-03-15 09:39 <whitequark> DocScrutinizer05: you'll like http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e4mXLcQUixs&feature=youtu.be
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2014-03-15 09:52 <wpwrak> (bonus pack) luxury toothpicks ?
2014-03-15 09:53 <wpwrak> try going MUCH slower ?
2014-03-15 09:53 <wpwrak> i'm amazed that they survive 1 mm deflection. are they made of rubber ?
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2014-03-15 10:06 <whitequark> wpwrak: well, they were sold as HSS
2014-03-15 10:06 <whitequark> keep in mind they're 4mm long and 0.2mm thick
2014-03-15 10:06 <whitequark> 5mm long even
2014-03-15 10:06 <whitequark> I'm a bit at a loss to who thought this is a good idea
2014-03-15 10:07 <whitequark> or perhaps, I now understand much better why are they so cheap
2014-03-15 10:08 <wpwrak> these are drills, not endmills :)
2014-03-15 10:08 <whitequark> well, they were sold as endmills!
2014-03-15 10:08 <wpwrak> at 0.2 mm, plan on a length of 0.5 mm +/- 0.1 mm
2014-03-15 10:08 <wpwrak> (for an endmill)
2014-03-15 10:09 <whitequark> actually
2014-03-15 10:09 <whitequark> it is possible that you are right
2014-03-15 10:09 <whitequark> endmill should have a flat end, right?
2014-03-15 10:09 <wpwrak> depends. most do, but it can have almost any shape
2014-03-15 10:09 <whitequark> well I mean, if it's conical, then it is certainly not an endmill, right?
2014-03-15 10:10 <wpwrak> it could still be an endmill. a conical one :)
2014-03-15 10:10 <whitequark> hm
2014-03-15 10:10 <whitequark> what is a difference between a conical endmill and a drill then?
2014-03-15 10:10 <wpwrak> but you probably know for sure that any drill will be conical :)
2014-03-15 10:11 <wpwrak> not sure how exactly they differ if they have similar shapes. the endmill cuts anywhere along the thread but maybe drills do, too
2014-03-15 10:11 <whitequark> I'm faaaairly certain that it does have a conical end
2014-03-15 10:12 <wpwrak> endmills are designed for lateral loads while drills aren't. so they're shorter and usually harder
2014-03-15 10:12 <whitequark> my eyes don't quite have enough resolution to figure this out, even with a loupe
2014-03-15 10:12 <whitequark> lemme take a picture
2014-03-15 10:13 <wpwrak> at some size it gets hard to see the difference
2014-03-15 10:13 <wpwrak> but anyway, they'e far too long to be normal endmills
2014-03-15 10:13 <wpwrak> typical diameter to height ratio at small sizes is in the order of 1:2
2014-03-15 10:16 <wpwrak> well, maybe a bit more. 1:4 seems more typical
2014-03-15 10:16 <wpwrak> though some make them shorter
2014-03-15 10:17 <wpwrak> below 1 mm, it gets closer to 1:3
2014-03-15 10:17 <wpwrak> e.g., i see in a shop one for 0.3 mm -> 1 mm
2014-03-15 10:18 <whitequark> http://i.imgur.com/NLqHPiP.jpg
2014-03-15 10:19 <whitequark> grr, not good enough
2014-03-15 10:19 <whitequark> I'm at rigidity limit of my tripod...
2014-03-15 10:19 <wpwrak> above diameters of about 2-3 mm, the length can considerably increase. seems that you're at a point there where the softer materials are hardly a burden anymore
2014-03-15 10:19 <wpwrak> e.g., that same shop has one with 3 mm -> 52 mm
2014-03-15 10:20 <wpwrak> looks like a drill :)
2014-03-15 10:21 <wpwrak> try moving it sideways at 0.5 mm/s or slower, see if it still dances around
2014-03-15 10:21 <wpwrak> btw, you're lucky that it's HSS. if it was tungsten, you'd have chopped it right off at 10 mm/s
2014-03-15 10:28 <whitequark> http://i.imgur.com/j2Fx3oK.jpg
2014-03-15 10:29 <whitequark> can't get a better pic
2014-03-15 10:29 <whitequark> tbh I'm not sure I even understand what is it at the end
2014-03-15 10:31 <whitequark> or in fact I can
2014-03-15 10:32 <whitequark> wpwrak: http://i.imgur.com/dHJPuPO.jpg
2014-03-15 10:32 <whitequark> another endmill/drill(?) though
2014-03-15 10:34 <wpwrak> looks like a drill
2014-03-15 10:36 <wpwrak> maybe the cn->en dictionary has drill -> bit (they're synonymous after all) and the cn->en dictionary has bit -> endmill
2014-03-15 10:36 <whitequark> with less chromatic aberration: http://i.imgur.com/d2Rqemx.jpg
2014-03-15 10:36 <whitequark> definitely does look like a drill
2014-03-15 10:37 <whitequark> okay, time for more angry amazon reviews
2014-03-15 10:37 <wpwrak> good picture. and yes, it's till a drill :)
2014-03-15 10:37 <wpwrak> #s/till/still/
2014-03-15 10:38 <whitequark> (picture) yeah, this camera's pretty amazing. quite a good microscope in fact!
2014-03-15 10:39 <whitequark> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B008RE2VJ4/ref=oh_details_o07_s00_i02?ie=UTF8&psc=1
2014-03-15 10:40 <whitequark> hahaha lolwhat, it says "carbide" in description but "tungsten steel" below
2014-03-15 10:41 <wpwrak> dilithium-plastic :)
2014-03-15 10:43 <DocScrutinizer05> usual, tungsten steel with tungsten carbide finish or cutting stones
2014-03-15 10:43 <wpwrak> but according to the amazon reviews, someone got it to work for pcbs. of course, running very slowly, but that's already clear from the shape
2014-03-15 10:46 <DocScrutinizer05> oops nope, they say tungsten steel BLADE
2014-03-15 10:57 <whitequark> hahaha
2014-03-15 10:58 <whitequark> I bought two sets of endmills from different amazon vendors
2014-03-15 10:58 <whitequark> now I look at them and there's exactly same handwriting on labels
2014-03-15 11:09 <whitequark> ccccccdcecigibilitjigvbthegidhvdlflfhfubnuvf
2014-03-15 11:09 <whitequark> er
2014-03-15 11:21 <larsc> bless you!
2014-03-15 11:22 * whitequark giggles
2014-03-15 11:25 <whitequark> I accidentally triggered yubikey, if you're curious
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2014-03-15 11:33 <whitequark> wpwrak: so I finally got some plywood for victim material
2014-03-15 11:33 <whitequark> idea: mill out a grid of depressions on the bottom side. place nuts inside. wait for squirrels to appear
2014-03-15 11:34 <whitequark> er, I meant: use bolts to quickly move fixture on the top side without unscrewing the sheet completely
2014-03-15 11:34 <whitequark> 6mm plywood... not very much headroom but should work
2014-03-15 11:39 <whitequark> say, an M3 nut is 2.4mm thick. mill out a 3mm deep depression. use a 12mm screw. then actually use the remains of my 6mm sheet in this way:
2014-03-15 11:40 <whitequark> cut out a small rectangular piece. drill hole for screw. mill off material off half the piece where the workpiece will be
2014-03-15 11:40 <whitequark> what do you think?
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2014-03-15 12:56 <wpwrak> whitequark: for comparison, here's a 12 mil endmill, usable length 18 mil: http://downloads.qi-hardware.com/people/werner/tmp/6mil-9mil.jpg
2014-03-15 12:57 <wpwrak> and here 12 mil, usable length 18 mil: http://downloads.qi-hardware.com/people/werner/tmp/12mil-18mil.jpg
2014-03-15 12:59 <wpwrak> (wood) why not just: 1) put wood on mill, 2) put workpiece on top, 3) fix workpiece with clamps, making it push down on wood. i.e., keep things simple :)
2014-03-15 12:59 <wpwrak> i also made some fancy fixtures (of aluminium, no less) at first but then never used them ...
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2014-03-15 13:37 <CYB3R> Hi all!
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2014-03-15 16:19 <DocScrutinizer05> dang, Ukraina goes hot
2014-03-15 16:21 <DocScrutinizer05> and of course Russia is going "Oh, they gather tanks and weapons behind the frontier. This looks like a serious threat agianst our own troops' ability to move in there. So let's move in there before it is too late"
2014-03-15 16:22 <DocScrutinizer05> the Georgia model
2014-03-15 16:23 <DocScrutinizer05> :-(
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2014-03-15 17:28 <whitequark> wpwrak: well yes, that is exactly what I want to do
2014-03-15 17:28 <whitequark> how are you going to attach clamps to wood?
2014-03-15 17:38 <wpwrak> not to the wood but to the thing on top
2014-03-15 17:38 <wpwrak> well, unless you have to glue it to the wood. depends on the use
2014-03-15 17:40 <wpwrak> if you have to glue, maybe take plastic-laminated wood. that would have a smooth surface. and then clamp the wood
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2014-03-15 17:46 <DocScrutinizer05> glueing the PCB is probably never a really nice idea, unless it's only about drilling holes all way through
2014-03-15 17:46 <DocScrutinizer05> Z axis undefined when glueing
2014-03-15 17:47 <DocScrutinizer05> not that it would drift, once you glued it, but for sure you can't define beforehand where the PCB will be on Z-axis
2014-03-15 17:48 <DocScrutinizer05> which is particularly nasty since generally you want to make sure that PCB is parallel plane to your CNC table and thus the X/Y-plane
2014-03-15 17:51 <DocScrutinizer05> maybe your controller sw can cope with non-level non-"horizontal" surface of PCB, then all you need to do is taking values for 3 precise level measurepoints
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2014-03-15 18:02 <wpwrak> glue, raise bit a little, then position the head in the "on pcb" position, release the bit, drop it on the pcb, then tighten again
2014-03-15 18:11 <wpwrak> (where "glue" = double-sided adhesive tape)
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2014-03-15 18:44 <DocScrutinizer05> doesn't help *at all* to make your PCB in level with your X/Y-axis plane
2014-03-15 18:45 <DocScrutinizer05> it will most likely on level just in one line that runs through the point where you did your calibration procedure
2014-03-15 18:51 <DocScrutinizer05> worst case you even got two layers (or 3 :-o )of your DS-stickytape on one location of PCB. But even when you don't mess stuff up like that, and you avoid to have bubbles between PCB and sticky, you still don't know how hard you pressed the PCB to the stickytape and how much the stickytape flattened by that pressure
2014-03-15 18:56 <DocScrutinizer05> well, scientific approach would be to probe level/height of your (PCB) surface every maybe 2 or 5mm, in a grid. Then from that set of coords create a 3D-model of your (PCB) object in your CNC controller software. Then the CNC controller sw can decide how far down the mill tool has to get moved on a particular X/Y position to make a hole/trench of excatl n.nnn mm depth at that location
2014-03-15 18:57 <DocScrutinizer05> when you use your tool head for this, you can even calibrate out any X/X-dependant Z-errors of your CNC
2014-03-15 18:57 <DocScrutinizer05> s,X/X,X/Y,
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2014-03-15 18:59 <DocScrutinizer05> s,X/X,X/Y,
2014-03-15 18:59 <DocScrutinizer05> doesn't help
2014-03-15 19:00 <DocScrutinizer05> s,p,B,
2014-03-15 19:00 <DocScrutinizer05> s/B/p/
2014-03-15 19:01 <DocScrutinizer05> o.O
2014-03-15 19:01 <qi-bot> DocScrutinizer05 meant: "s,p,p,"
2014-03-15 19:01 <DocScrutinizer05> LOL
2014-03-15 19:37 <DocScrutinizer05> long live unicode:  ^͜^
2014-03-15 19:38 <DocScrutinizer05> incredible
2014-03-15 19:38 <DocScrutinizer05> almost as weird as %coffee
2014-03-15 19:38 <DocScrutinizer05> oops
2014-03-15 19:39 <DocScrutinizer05> meh! I thought I had %coffee like ♪♫
2014-03-15 19:43 <DocScrutinizer05> ☕
2014-03-15 19:57 <CYB3R> http://babelstone.blogspot.fi/2013/10/whats-new-in-unicode-70.html
2014-03-15 19:58 <CYB3R> http://☃.net
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2014-03-15 21:57 <DocScrutinizer05> WTF!?
2014-03-15 21:59 <DocScrutinizer05> W T 1F595 ?
2014-03-15 22:01 arielenter has joined #qi-hardware
2014-03-15 22:11 <DocScrutinizer05> dang, my system not even knows ��
2014-03-15 22:12 <DocScrutinizer05> U+1F4A9
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2014-03-15 22:26 <wpwrak> for a bit of weekend relaxation, i found this nice rogue-like: http://www.zincland.com/7drl/kobold/
2014-03-15 22:43 <DocScrutinizer05> Oh my. what were those called? text adventures?
2014-03-15 22:48 <wpwrak> rogue-like :)
2014-03-15 22:48 <wpwrak> it's a pretty funny one. very tongue-in-cheek
2014-03-15 22:48 <wpwrak> to run it, if the binary doesn't work, you need ...
2014-03-15 22:50 <wpwrak> http://www.uploadable.ch/file/jDTx4mw39svY/kobold002.patch
2014-03-15 22:51 <DocScrutinizer05> I wonder what happened to Elite (recent sequel). I think Braben(?) should have finally finished it.
2014-03-15 22:51 <wpwrak> and then these instructions: http://pastebin.com/Remq9bei (apply patch after unzipping)
2014-03-15 22:52 <wpwrak> elite ... that's from before the war, right ?
2014-03-15 22:52 <wpwrak> i mean the one with napoleon
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2014-03-15 22:52 <DocScrutinizer05> http://www.theskinny.co.uk/latest/307156-a_new_frontier_behind_scenes_elite_dangerous
2014-03-15 22:57 <DocScrutinizer05> http://elite.frontier.co.uk/
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2014-03-15 23:15 <DocScrutinizer05> yes, that's from before the KT-impact
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2014-03-15 23:26 <DocScrutinizer05> I wonder if they eventually will offer "Elite: Dangerous" for linux too
2014-03-15 23:26 <DocScrutinizer05> I mean, when they can offer for osx
2014-03-15 23:32 <DocScrutinizer05> ((age)) this should answer it ;-) >>Elite © 1984 David Braben & Ian Bell. Frontier © 1993 David Braben, Frontier: First Encounters © 1995 David Braben and Elite: Dangerous © 2012, 2013 Frontier Developments plc.<<
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2014-03-15 23:35 <DocScrutinizer05> I first played Elite on a Schneider CPC64
2014-03-15 23:36 <DocScrutinizer05> 464
2014-03-15 23:41 <DocScrutinizer05> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zoH1gwV8xIc
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2014-03-15 23:54 <DocScrutinizer05> I admit it was much more fun on Amiga1000 with color monitor