2014-02-27 00:00 either it's false memory or something that's only accepted in RU 2014-02-27 00:00 not even info on amphetamine-caused degradation 2014-02-27 00:02 Dr House will feel a certain degree of relief about that ;-) 2014-02-27 00:04 well, there's this: http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0056438 2014-02-27 00:04 but it is far from accepted knowledge I'd say 2014-02-27 00:04 weird 2014-02-27 00:17 * whitequark giggles 2014-02-27 00:17 http://i.imgur.com/rJThx60.jpg ← a mouse 2014-02-27 00:18 wow, that looks dangerous 2014-02-27 00:18 dos11 has joined #qi-hardware 2014-02-27 00:20 we had similar incidents here, for our football stadium floodlight 2014-02-27 00:21 My dad was responsible for the technical aspects, and once the lights were out of order for >60min since a rabbit got between the contacts just like that mouse 2014-02-27 00:25 Luke-Jr has quit [Excess Flood] 2014-02-27 00:26 Luke-Jr has joined #qi-hardware 2014-02-27 00:26 I'm not sure though if that switches were already so called "low voltage" aka 4kV or 15kV 2014-02-27 00:28 ooh, "low voltage" is up to 1kV only, above it's already "middle voltage" 2014-02-27 00:32 dos11 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 2014-02-27 00:32 dos11 has joined #qi-hardware 2014-02-27 00:37 nice. you can still see the fur pattern :) 2014-02-27 00:39 that's indeed weird 2014-02-27 00:41 dos11 has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 2014-02-27 00:42 it would be even more impressive if you could also distinguish feet, tail, head, ... and of course the bulging eyes :) 2014-02-27 00:43 UPS are evil 2014-02-27 00:44 yeah, pulling the plug won't save you 2014-02-27 00:45 my personal statistics suggest that UPS cause 10 times more blackouts than they avoid. Thanks to mice, broken relays, defect batteries or electronc defects 2014-02-27 00:47 only had dead batteries so far. but yes, once the battery goes bad, the UPS makes small problems worse. 2014-02-27 00:48 why do UPS batteries tend to inexplicably and quetly die all the time? 2014-02-27 00:48 I thought Pb batteries really like being continuously recharged with tiny current 2014-02-27 00:48 because the UPS designers have no real clue about treating batteries nicely 2014-02-27 00:49 actually it seems to me they simply don't care 2014-02-27 00:49 or maybe they do care - about making money with replacement batteries 2014-02-27 00:49 but that's for tiny UPS only 2014-02-27 00:50 the size like that one with the mouse is usually fine with batteries for 10..20 years 2014-02-27 00:51 when a whole datacenter goes down, you can bet on "UPS defect" 2014-02-27 00:52 which doesn't mean much since when the UPS wasn't defect, the DC wouldn't go sown 2014-02-27 00:55 wolfspraul has joined #qi-hardware 2014-02-27 00:56 down even 2014-02-27 00:59 wolfspra1l has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 2014-02-27 02:04 panda|w530 has joined #qi-hardware 2014-02-27 02:17 kanzure has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 2014-02-27 02:35 xiangfu has joined #qi-hardware 2014-02-27 02:43 kanzure has joined #qi-hardware 2014-02-27 03:02 michael_lee has joined #qi-hardware 2014-02-27 03:21 FDCX has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 2014-02-27 03:44 arielenter has joined #qi-hardware 2014-02-27 04:30 nicksydney has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 2014-02-27 04:30 nicksydney has joined #qi-hardware 2014-02-27 04:46 xiangfu has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 2014-02-27 05:43 FDCX has joined #qi-hardware 2014-02-27 05:49 FDCX has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 2014-02-27 05:51 FDCX has joined #qi-hardware 2014-02-27 06:12 arielenter has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 2014-02-27 07:38 wej has joined #qi-hardware 2014-02-27 08:07 pcercuei has joined #qi-hardware 2014-02-27 09:32 root_empire has joined #qi-hardware 2014-02-27 09:34 michael_lee has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 2014-02-27 09:54 viric has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 2014-02-27 09:55 viric has joined #qi-hardware 2014-02-27 10:04 dos11 has joined #qi-hardware 2014-02-27 10:29 panda|w530 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 2014-02-27 10:40 dos11 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 2014-02-27 10:44 dos11 has joined #qi-hardware 2014-02-27 10:45 dos11 has quit [Client Quit] 2014-02-27 11:24 wpwrak: http://info.tek.com/sg_mdo3000oscilloscope-oneisthenewsix.html 2014-02-27 11:26 will cost a bundle :) 2014-02-27 11:27 ah, the spectrum analyzer is something new. i was wondering how long until they's add that 2014-02-27 11:27 DocScrutinizer05: http://www.projectara.com/#project-ara 2014-02-27 11:27 wpwrak: i think you can enter competition for the MDO3000 2014-02-27 11:28 who knows you can win :) 2014-02-27 11:29 you never win in this sort of things .... 2014-02-27 11:29 besides, it wouldn't pass customs 2014-02-27 11:31 it's about time someone makes a nice open hardware scope and put an end to the "option" mania. there's a clear trend towards marketing very nice devices but selling crippled junk that you have to "unlock" with option packages that cost you more than the original device 2014-02-27 11:33 open hardware scope...hmmm......using FPGA ? 2014-02-27 11:33 you can't build a non-toy scope without an fpga :) 2014-02-27 11:41 wpwrak: this http://www.osciprime.com/ 2014-02-27 11:44 still a toy. 6 Msps. that's ridiculous. that's not even enough for arduino projects ... 2014-02-27 11:45 and they want to sell that for 250 CHF ;-))) you almost get a real scope for that 2014-02-27 11:50 Russian jets patrol Ukraine border http://www.cnbc.com/id/101451132 2014-02-27 11:50 flexing muscle eh 2014-02-27 11:53 btw, if you want low-end but a bit above toy level, you could consider this: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/751733865/smartscope-reinventing-the-oscilloscope?ref=category 2014-02-27 11:54 100 MSa/s is still very low. (suitable for signals up to around 10 MHz, maybe a bit higher but not a lot). they also have an fpga, not a cpld. so they might even be able to do a bit of protocol decoding. 2014-02-27 11:55 wpwrak: I wonder, how do you determine which MSa/s value corresponds to which MHz? 2014-02-27 11:56 won't you need 2x MSa/s by Nyquist theorem/ 2014-02-27 11:56 *? 2014-02-27 11:57 depending on a pc for processing is a major bottleneck, though. you generally can't get the data through fast enough. that's why integrating the display in the scope makes sense - direct path between display and sample memory 2014-02-27 11:58 whitequark: correct. but that's a sine wave under ideal conditions. there must be another limitation in there, e.g., about phase and phase drift. 2014-02-27 11:59 e.g., if i give you a series of all the zero crossings, nyquist would be happy, but you'd still have a hard time reconstructing the signal :) 2014-02-27 12:00 so for reconstruction you need more. as a rule of thumb scope manufacturers recommend a sample rate that's 10-12x signal bandwidth 2014-02-27 12:00 (for real-time sampling. if you use equivalent time, then things change) 2014-02-27 12:02 a few hints are here; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nyquist%E2%80%93Shannon_sampling_theorem 2014-02-27 12:03 "In practice, infinite sequences," ... and " must be strictly less than ½ the sample rate" 2014-02-27 12:03 that was "B must ..." 2014-02-27 12:04 wpwrak: oooooh sine wave 2014-02-27 12:04 actually, i could imagine that it may work with any not too crazy waveform you agree on 2014-02-27 12:05 but don't forget that it has to be infinite 2014-02-27 12:05 so it's similar to equivalent-time sampling 2014-02-27 12:05 only that the latter has a trigger while nyquist doesn't need that 2014-02-27 12:06 of course, if you had to tell your scope what waveform you expect to see, that's kinda cheating ;-) 2014-02-27 12:06 haha 2014-02-27 12:11 wpwrak: though: any waveform is a bunch of sine waves ;) 2014-02-27 12:12 in fact, *you* are a bunch of sine waves 2014-02-27 12:16 rz2k has joined #qi-hardware 2014-02-27 12:19 qi-bot has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 2014-02-27 12:21 i prefer to think of myself as a bunch of particles with an occasional identity crisis 2014-02-27 12:21 :D 2014-02-27 12:21 I recently learned that in modern physics there's no more notion of particle/wave duality, which, in fact, was always an 'educational' construct 2014-02-27 12:22 all elementary, um, things are always treated as waves, period. 2014-02-27 12:22 obviously this isn't physics that changed, just the way it is taught. but still interesting. 2014-02-27 12:24 guess it's the same as meters/inch. eventually you get tired of carrying around the one you don't like anyway. so there goes the 0.0197" QFN pitch ... 2014-02-27 12:25 yep. it was more confusing to keep it around. 2014-02-27 12:50 qi-bot has joined #qi-hardware 2014-02-27 12:54 wolfspraul has quit [Quit: leaving] 2014-02-27 13:04 root_empire has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 2014-02-27 13:44 xiangfu has joined #qi-hardware 2014-02-27 13:47 rz2k has quit [] 2014-02-27 13:54 xiangfu has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 2014-02-27 13:58 nicksydney has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 2014-02-27 13:59 nicksydney has joined #qi-hardware 2014-02-27 14:21 wolfspraul has joined #qi-hardware 2014-02-27 15:13 apelete_ has joined #qi-hardware 2014-02-27 15:21 apelete has quit [*.net *.split] 2014-02-27 15:23 apelete_ has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 2014-02-27 15:39 rz2k has joined #qi-hardware 2014-02-27 16:21 wolfspraul has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 2014-02-27 16:25 DocScrutinizer05: you'll like this, I've just seen an ad for a smartphone with 3 sim cards 2014-02-27 16:25 explay someshit 2014-02-27 16:26 hmm, 3SIM isn't new 2014-02-27 16:26 ah 2014-02-27 16:26 even 4 SIM seen occasionally. But no particular use in that automated SIM swapper 2014-02-27 16:27 the world need smartphones with a mechanical sim card changer. like the cd changers of old 2014-02-27 16:27 exactly like that 2014-02-27 16:27 dual-standby is the thing we want 2014-02-27 16:27 and I haven't seen triple-standby yet 2014-02-27 16:27 porchaso0 has joined #qi-hardware 2014-02-27 16:28 ahh 2014-02-27 16:28 actually that concept pretty soonish runs into technical limits 2014-02-27 16:28 naw, you want "all out" and "insert by gps location / fake identity". also set the IMEI accordingly :) 2014-02-27 16:28 complete nonsesne 2014-02-27 16:29 give the nsa something to chew on :) 2014-02-27 16:29 authorities and carriers have no difficulties whatsoever to track that IMEI/SIM change 2014-02-27 16:30 porchao has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 2014-02-27 16:30 how ? if you change location and keep very low duty cycles ? 2014-02-27 16:30 yep, they even readily give that to my bank 2014-02-27 16:30 one IMEI vanishing and a new one appearing same time and same location? Dang, what the heck might THAT be??? 2014-02-27 16:30 each time I change SIM they get aroused and send me SMSs 2014-02-27 16:30 if I dare to get a new SIM for same number I'm locked out of account 2014-02-27 16:30 and I don't remember signing anything that gives them this privilege... 2014-02-27 16:30 ugh 2014-02-27 16:30 OR reading about that feature at all 2014-02-27 16:31 aroused bankers. now there's an ugly thought 2014-02-27 16:31 reminds me of that 80es (?) song "lawyers in love". that also had a certain creepiness to it. 2014-02-27 16:32 * DocScrutinizer05 feels nausea 2014-02-27 16:34 arielenter has joined #qi-hardware 2014-02-27 16:35 hmm, I guess they are running a SIM app to authenticate you against the bank account 2014-02-27 16:35 that SIM app may send IMSI, IMEI, phone number, whatnot else 2014-02-27 16:36 no, see, the only thing I did is I gave bank my number 2014-02-27 16:36 well, maybe they can remotely install something on SIM only given number. that makes it even worse 2014-02-27 16:36 you're doing no eTAN or mobile banking or whatever? 2014-02-27 16:37 nope 2014-02-27 16:37 never heard of 2014-02-27 16:37 eTAN? 2014-02-27 16:37 bank sends TAN per SMS 2014-02-27 16:38 or wasit iTAN? 2014-02-27 16:38 mTAN? 2014-02-27 16:38 no clue 2014-02-27 16:40 first there been TAN, like 100 one time passwords on a paper they sent to you. Then they added index numbers to that and asked for TAN #42 2014-02-27 16:40 then they came up with TAN via SMS 2014-02-27 16:40 well yes, they do send me confirmation code for transactions to that phone 2014-02-27 16:40 though never heard it called TAN 2014-02-27 16:40 TransActionNumber 2014-02-27 16:41 PIN/TAN method 2014-02-27 16:41 hmm 2014-02-27 16:42 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transaction_authentication_number 2014-02-27 16:43 iTAN is Indexed, mTAN is Mobile 2014-02-27 16:43 arielenter has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 2014-02-27 16:43 pcercuei has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 2014-02-27 16:43 arielenter has joined #qi-hardware 2014-02-27 16:45 see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transaction_authentication_number#Mobile_TAN_.28mTAN.29 second paragraph 2014-02-27 16:46 arielenter1 has joined #qi-hardware 2014-02-27 16:46 arielenter has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 2014-02-27 16:48 no surprise your bank is taking measures to make sure you are the legal owner of that SIM 2014-02-27 16:48 however they do it. Prolly by cooperation with your carrier 2014-02-27 16:49 I don't think bank can send SIM applications right away 2014-02-27 16:49 but SIMs *can* get updated OTA, no news in that 2014-02-27 16:49 arielenter1 has quit [Client Quit] 2014-02-27 16:50 and your carrier might even diclose more than the usual phonenumber to banks that send mTAN 2014-02-27 16:50 arielenter has joined #qi-hardware 2014-02-27 16:51 the carrier knows your IMEI and IMSI 2014-02-27 16:51 it's just usually not forwarded with SMS or ACK-SMS-replies 2014-02-27 16:52 banks may negotiate to receive such details, since they have an obvious interest in it 2014-02-27 16:52 however only after first mTAN sent to you 2014-02-27 16:53 bank receives a reception-confirmation feedback, and that may contain rich info 2014-02-27 16:54 SIGH! >>** PROBLEM Service Alert: firewall-b.maemo.org/SSH is CRITICAL **<< 2014-02-27 16:55 o.O web interface has no alarms 2014-02-27 16:58 meh, prolly backup 2014-02-27 16:58 o/ 2014-02-27 16:58 finally fission can begin :) 2014-02-27 17:02 arielenter has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 2014-02-27 17:02 arielenter has joined #qi-hardware 2014-02-27 17:32 wej_ has joined #qi-hardware 2014-02-27 17:34 wej has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 2014-02-27 17:35 pcercuei has joined #qi-hardware 2014-02-27 17:59 arielenter has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 2014-02-27 18:00 arielenter has joined #qi-hardware 2014-02-27 18:07 grmbl. lost all day to figuring out how to get to the warehouse with the reagents sent to me 2014-02-27 18:08 *no* public transport whatsoever stops within 1km of that area 2014-02-27 18:08 however that didn't stop Google from trying to tell me to board a bus that doesn't even exist 2014-02-27 18:08 wtf 2014-02-27 18:40 on the good side I got aerosol spray paint (not water based, judging by how hard it is to get it off my hands), and bought a *new* thermoregulated oven for $30 from some guy 2014-02-27 18:41 it even has a °C scale (instead of parrots, as it usually is) and the thermoregulation is surpsiginly good, according to my IR thermometer 2014-02-27 18:41 so, I don't even have to mod it. 2014-02-27 18:42 * whitequark ponders cooking something in it before condemning it to an industrial purpose 2014-02-27 18:49 dos11 has joined #qi-hardware 2014-02-27 18:49 dos11 is now known as dos1 2014-02-27 19:00 naw, that'll make it dirty with grease. and I could always repurpose it back to food later... 2014-02-27 19:01 ... with all the health benefits of the added nutrients, namely lead, flux vapours, ... 2014-02-27 19:01 degC vs. ... parrots ? 2014-02-27 19:01 oooooh you don't know 2014-02-27 19:01 hang on 2014-02-27 19:02 (warehouse) the 1 km blast radius may mean something. also, the disappearance of the bus may have a perfectly logical if tragic explanation 2014-02-27 19:03 parrot seems a useful unit for heat 2014-02-27 19:03 ROTFL @ wpwrak 2014-02-27 19:03 :D 2014-02-27 19:04 wpwrak: DocScrutinizer05: parrots: watch this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Lj30QBLDh4 2014-02-27 19:04 (parrots) i'm sure there are places where there are a common food source. but russia ? 2014-02-27 19:04 it's 8 minutes but it's totally worth it 2014-02-27 19:07 wth? what were those authors smoking? 2014-02-27 19:08 hang on, it's not just some drug-fueled children's cartoon. it's a drug-fueled children's cartoon tackling a deep philosophical problem! 2014-02-27 19:09 for some reason pretty much all USSR cartoons have this, erm, "smokey" feel to them. "what was the author smoking" is a rather commonly used idiom... 2014-02-27 19:13 hmm, i learned a lot about the rational number pi there :) 2014-02-27 19:14 hehe 2014-02-27 19:14 I especially like python's catharsis upon successful measurement 2014-02-27 19:14 i was waiting until he got to have lunch. alas, they skipped that. 2014-02-27 19:15 nah, they're for preschoolers. strictly no violence 2014-02-27 19:15 to be honest, they're also much better than the pointless mundane crap people usually try to show preschoolers 2014-02-27 19:17 hmm, considering what - thanks to youtube - russians are known to do for weekend entertainment, i'd expect a rather flexible definition of "no violence" :) 2014-02-27 19:18 well... keep in mind it's from USSR days. state controlled media rather tight, *especially* whatever could have an effect on children. 2014-02-27 19:20 ah, only vegetarian pythons and peaceful military parades :) 2014-02-27 19:22 talking about weird animation: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xpuWhpV-6-0#t=66 2014-02-27 19:24 or from this point: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xpuWhpV-6-0#t=275 2014-02-27 19:25 wolfspraul has joined #qi-hardware 2014-02-27 19:26 LSD and vodka don't mix 2014-02-27 19:28 hmmm 2014-02-27 19:28 * DocScrutinizer05 is short of proper reply 2014-02-27 19:30 there also was a certain fragment which is I'm absolutely certain was produced by an LSD-fueled binge and nothing more, it didn't even make sense in context 2014-02-27 19:31 (the stuff above kinda does, it's from fairy tales... the author definitely did add an unique touch though) 2014-02-27 19:36 what's the philosophical problem tackled now? the number of dimensions in a parrot? 2014-02-27 19:38 in the parrot cartoon? well, "what is measurement?" and the fact that you need an ethalon 2014-02-27 19:38 or how much are 38 parrots in Liters Vodka 2014-02-27 19:39 I mean, that's not obvious to 5-year-old children unless they're DocScrutinizers. I've met 30-year-olds to whom this wasn't obvious :p 2014-02-27 19:39 ooh, such questions probably never occured to me 2014-02-27 19:39 oh? 2014-02-27 19:40 probably I always seen measurement as an arbitrary relation between two entities 2014-02-27 19:41 and it's never meaningful without the proper contect/definition 2014-02-27 19:41 context* 2014-02-27 19:41 i feel some relief that "dict" doesn't know "ethalon" either. google does, of course, but it's a bunch of names 2014-02-27 19:42 hm 2014-02-27 19:42 "standard" 2014-02-27 19:42 always thought it was a loaned word 2014-02-27 19:42 maybe it moved straight up north, without stopping in the west 2014-02-27 19:55 http://lwn.net/Articles/588637/rss 2014-02-27 19:56 \o/ 2014-02-27 20:10 lilvinz has joined #qi-hardware 2014-02-27 20:39 rz2k has quit [] 2014-02-27 22:05 oh, fuck. 2014-02-27 22:06 I've realized a rather huge problem with my stencil milling ide 2014-02-27 22:06 *idea 2014-02-27 22:07 namely if I mill out, say, an outline of a chip... guess what it'll fall out. 2014-02-27 22:07 closed polygons ? :) 2014-02-27 22:07 exactly 2014-02-27 22:08 two options: 1) not mill it out but engrave rather, then do as DocScrutinizer05 suggested: copper plate printing 2014-02-27 22:08 so you have to leave little bridges 2014-02-27 22:08 2) bridges, yes 2014-02-27 22:08 I wanna try both options 2014-02-27 22:09 else, you can always try the cnc mill + brush + pot of paint idea ;-) 2014-02-27 22:10 nah, too unstable 2014-02-27 22:10 or, use an airbrush. but that limits you to about 1 mm minimum width 2014-02-27 22:10 airbrush? 2014-02-27 22:10 how'd I? 2014-02-27 22:10 mount on cnc mill, add computer-controlled air valve 2014-02-27 22:11 lock the airbrush's own control knob into a suitable position 2014-02-27 22:11 meh 2014-02-27 22:11 would probably take about a week to get it right. but hey, the views on youtube ! :) 2014-02-27 22:13 add some fancy music and dance around the mill (while painting) like a wild dervish and yours is gangnam style 2014 :) 2014-02-27 22:15 you have to add girls, though. else, it's just some sad geek. but having girls in the picture means, whatever it is you're doing, it's not an evolutionary dead-end. 2014-02-27 22:16 * whitequark sighs 2014-02-27 22:16 now I can segfault eagle 2014-02-27 22:21 that's an unusual request 2014-02-27 22:21 it's not request, it's a bug in this damn CAD 2014-02-27 22:22 ah :) right ... "now", not "how". need stronger glasses 2014-02-27 22:22 why use eagle when there's open and free kicad ? 2014-02-27 22:23 I'm used to eagle and practically everyone (sparkfun, dangerousprototypes, etc) use it 2014-02-27 22:23 also, pcb-gcode CAM 2014-02-27 22:24 ROTFL 2014-02-27 22:24 GANGAM STYLE! 2014-02-27 22:25 segfault eagle? :-o 2014-02-27 22:26 FFS! 2014-02-27 22:26 Send the file to me, I might turn it into something useful! ;-) 2014-02-27 22:28 DocScrutinizer05: it's an ULP. repro: UL_WIRE w[]; int n; B.elements(E) E.texts(T) T.wires(W) { w[n++] = W; }; UL_WIRE W = w[0]; W.layer; 2014-02-27 22:29 even: board(B) { UL_WIRE w[]; int n; B.elements(E) E.texts(T) T.wires(W) { w[n++] = W; }; UL_WIRE W = w[0]; W.layer; 2014-02-27 22:29 put any package on board and smash it 2014-02-27 22:29 ow that's true gibberish to me ;-P 2014-02-27 22:31 do you think upper and lowercase W/w is a smart idea? 2014-02-27 22:32 well, that's just the abridged version I posted here 2014-02-27 22:32 I'd not be surprised when that does havoc to the interpreter, when at one occasion those two vars are considered entities and other occasion does a toupper() or whatever 2014-02-27 22:33 nah, it's irrelevant 2014-02-27 22:33 the interpreters which are that shitty died out at about 2000 :p 2014-02-27 22:33 (I've checked) 2014-02-27 22:33 eagle is older 2014-02-27 22:33 ;-P 2014-02-27 22:33 its ULP language is surprisingly good 2014-02-27 22:34 still looks like dark voodoo to me 2014-02-27 22:34 I mean, it's not painful to use, that's already something 2014-02-27 22:34 B.elements(E) E.texts(T) T.wires(W) 2014-02-27 22:34 usually when CAD people go and design a language it's torture 2014-02-27 22:34 W*T*F? 2014-02-27 22:34 well 2014-02-27 22:34 that's how you enumerate parts 2014-02-27 22:34 B.elements(E) basically means 2014-02-27 22:35 create a obj/var "E" 2014-02-27 22:35 in pseudocode: for(UL_ELEMENT E in B.elements) { 2014-02-27 22:35 yes 2014-02-27 22:35 that looks decent 2014-02-27 22:36 hm, I should try their beta 2014-02-27 22:37 ohwell, I wrote COBOL and even SEVAG programs 2014-02-27 22:37 nope. still crashes. 2014-02-27 22:37 SEVAG? short for "SEWAGE" ? :D 2014-02-27 22:37 Siemens Eingabe Verarbeitung Ausgabe Generator 2014-02-27 22:38 ooh, no wonder can't google thta 2014-02-27 22:38 some weird shit almost similar to d-base mask generator 2014-02-27 22:38 d-base mask generator? 2014-02-27 22:38 each program step was a record in a ISAM DB 2014-02-27 22:38 some relative of subatomic photon torpedoes? 2014-02-27 22:39 dang, you're too young to even know d-base 2014-02-27 22:39 dbase? 2014-02-27 22:39 dbase mask generator was cool 2014-02-27 22:39 SEVAG was da shite 2014-02-27 22:40 ooooh dBase? 2014-02-27 22:40 I know that thing 2014-02-27 22:40 printing sttrings to screen was a "statement" that had X, Y, and 17chars text 2014-02-27 22:41 arielenter has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 2014-02-27 22:41 when I was completely fed up, I wrote a SEVAG editor tool that could do grep and sed commands across the ISAM db 2014-02-27 22:42 arielenter has joined #qi-hardware 2014-02-27 22:42 impressed the living shit out of Siemens-dudes who also worked with that crap since decades 2014-02-27 22:42 hehe 2014-02-27 22:43 nevermind, that was IT pleozaen in 1985+- 2014-02-27 22:44 we called that stuff http://www.tentacle.franken.de/m80/index.html computers back when 2014-02-27 22:44 >tentacle.franken.de 2014-02-27 22:44 not sure if I should look ... 2014-02-27 22:50 haha, nice bug. that ULP blows through eagle stack 2014-02-27 22:53 now the problem is, how do I make it work? -_- 2014-02-27 22:55 pcercuei has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 2014-02-27 22:57 ("everybody" uses eagle) billions of flies can't be all wrong about the taste of feces ... ;-) 2014-02-27 22:58 wpwrak: everybody uses eagle means there are designs and libraries available 2014-02-27 22:58 last time I checked you had to do practically all cases AND symbols yourself for kicad 2014-02-27 22:58 did you ever machine-copy from a design ? 2014-02-27 22:59 hm? 2014-02-27 22:59 well, yes, but i made sure i spend very little time on such things :) 2014-02-27 23:02 okay... hm. stencils. I wonder if I can position this shit well enough to engrave on film. 2014-02-27 23:13 surprisingly, yes, but the engraving is crap 2014-02-27 23:24 um... it worked, in a weird way 2014-02-27 23:24 I pushed the ink into grooves on stencil *and it stayed there8 2014-02-27 23:25 absolutely no ink transferred to board 2014-02-27 23:25 guess when I spread it in a thin layer, it dries so much quicker that there is no way I can transfer it quickly enough 2014-02-27 23:30 okay... tomorrow I'll try to figure something out 2014-02-27 23:33 arielenter has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 2014-02-27 23:34 arielenter1 has joined #qi-hardware 2014-02-27 23:34 apply solvent ;-) 2014-02-27 23:36 porchaso0 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 2014-02-27 23:37 porchao has joined #qi-hardware 2014-02-27 23:38 valhalla has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 2014-02-27 23:38 valhalla has joined #qi-hardware 2014-02-27 23:40 meh 2014-02-27 23:40 not reproducible well enough 2014-02-27 23:40 I think I devised a way to make CAM output bridges 2014-02-27 23:42 kanzure_ has joined #qi-hardware 2014-02-27 23:43 apelete has joined #qi-hardware 2014-02-27 23:45 lilvinz has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 2014-02-27 23:45 lilvinz has joined #qi-hardware 2014-02-27 23:45 kanzure has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 2014-02-27 23:45 viric has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 2014-02-27 23:45 lilvinz has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 2014-02-27 23:45 maybe like this: order corners by angle. place bridge on the ones with sharpest angles unless there's another sharp-angled close enough that making a bridge there will do. when done with corners, consider all straight lines that are too long. divide by two until you have the right distance. then add bridges. 2014-02-27 23:45 lilvinz- has joined #qi-hardware 2014-02-27 23:45 nah, I'll do simpler 2014-02-27 23:45 i think that should look reasonably well for most patterns 2014-02-27 23:45 for text, you may want manual rules 2014-02-27 23:46 the CAM is really simple: it just asks eagle for list of wires and then outputs those as gcode 2014-02-27 23:46 so what I'll do: I'll make it record the length of the toolpath it wrote since last plunge into material 2014-02-27 23:47 when that length exceeds X mm, it takes cutter out of material for Y mm while following same toolpath 2014-02-27 23:47 eg X=5mm Y=0.4mm 2014-02-27 23:47 text to me is just wires. I don't render it 2014-02-27 23:47 well, "wires", it's really lines when talking about silkscreen. 2014-02-27 23:47 okay. you'll get some funny results that way, but at least it will let you explore the process 2014-02-27 23:48 funny? I'd think the result would be rather good 2014-02-27 23:48 sure, lines would be interrupted in random places, but who the hell cares. it's an inherent defect of this proces 2014-02-27 23:48 rearranging bridges to make it more regular changes absolutely zilch 2014-02-27 23:49 X= 4 mm, line of 10 mm. bridge from 4.0-4.5 and 8.5-9.0, meaning slot 0.0-4.0, 4.5-8.5, 9.0-10.0 :) 2014-02-27 23:49 so? 2014-02-27 23:50 it'll look odd. don't forget that your patterns aren't necessarily closed polygons 2014-02-27 23:50 took that into account 2014-02-27 23:50 i mean for the visual effect 2014-02-27 23:50 distributing brides evenly is a rather inordinate amount of work I'd rather not do 2014-02-27 23:51 well, it's the same for a closed polygon. two bridges very close to each other will look odd. but then, you can always optimize later. 2014-02-27 23:51 why would they be close in a closed polygon? if lines are arranged in just the right way, the entire polygon would be considered "one line" 2014-02-27 23:51 in CAM 2014-02-27 23:51 not always the case, e.g. whoever drawn the symbol for pinhead arranged wires in a *weird* way 2014-02-27 23:52 almost random 2014-02-27 23:52 i mean like in the 10 mm example, well, actually no. it's the opposite - you'll get larger gaps 2014-02-27 23:53 eh? 2014-02-27 23:53 well whatever, you'll see it soon enough 2014-02-27 23:53 e.g., 0 to 10 mm, closed path. X=3, Y = 1. the slots you get: 0-3 4-7 8-0 -> 8-3 2014-02-27 23:53 ah yes, at the closing point of path there'll be an irregularity 2014-02-27 23:53 can't do anything with that 2014-02-27 23:54 not without treating path as proper polygon and not just a bunch of lines 2014-02-27 23:54 the paint won't magically flow out of trenches and onto your PCB. You need to apply some arguments that convince paint to move 2014-02-27 23:54 a) wet the copper plate with e.g water with a drop of detergent 2014-02-27 23:55 b) use very thin paint 2014-02-27 23:55 c) use any form of knocking. Like maybe ultrasonic 2014-02-27 23:55 eugh 2014-02-27 23:56 well... let's first look how the bridges idea fares 2014-02-27 23:56 if you can "collect" paths from tool down to tool up, you could just adjust your initial distance value to distribute it evenly. and, to make closed polygons nice, make the initial slot not much larger than X/2 2014-02-27 23:57 I know, I just don't really want to implement that in ULP 2014-02-27 23:58 when you cut V shaped trneches into copper plate, you can count on some water stciking in tip of that V. When paint sits above that minimal amount of water, then laminator heating up the copperplate to >100°C will probably work