2014-02-11 00:01 <wpwrak> heh, there's also a clone from .ve. a bit easier than yours: http://jotase.github.io/FlappyFree/#2
2014-02-11 00:01 <wpwrak> note that they have some currency restrictions there the people really resent ;-)
2014-02-11 00:01 <wpwrak> here's a collection of clones: http://www.palmentieri.it/somepx/flappyjam/
2014-02-11 00:07 <dos1> wpwrak: haha, submited :D
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2014-02-11 00:51 <whitequark> DocScrutinizer05: I see, thanks
2014-02-11 00:51 <DocScrutinizer05> hm?
2014-02-11 00:51 <DocScrutinizer05> soory, stack cleared
2014-02-11 00:51 <whitequark> re grounding and wristband
2014-02-11 00:51 <DocScrutinizer05> aah, np
2014-02-11 00:52 <whitequark> wpwrak: (salt) I'd search pubmed to substantiate my claim but I'm too lazy right now :p
2014-02-11 00:52 <DocScrutinizer05> a very simple tip: use a wooden desk
2014-02-11 00:52 <whitequark> DocScrutinizer05: I already do
2014-02-11 00:52 <DocScrutinizer05> good
2014-02-11 00:52 <whitequark> well, it's some kind of wooden laminate
2014-02-11 00:52 <whitequark> but that should work just as well, wouldn't it?
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2014-02-11 00:53 <DocScrutinizer05> second tip: try to always first touch the desk's metal feet before you touch anything sitting on the desk
2014-02-11 00:53 * whitequark nods
2014-02-11 00:53 <DocScrutinizer05> even better would be a metal desk of course
2014-02-11 00:54 <DocScrutinizer05> 3rd tip: always touch electronics at the ground plane or some metal frame first
2014-02-11 00:55 <DocScrutinizer05> it's usually not the electronic device that's electrically charged, it's usually you
2014-02-11 00:57 <DocScrutinizer05> ESD concerns in lab are massively exaggerated nowadays, since 99.9% of components already have quite decent ESD protection integrated
2014-02-11 00:58 <whitequark> DocScrutinizer05: I'm quite bothered when I stand up and hear a loud bang from the discharge
2014-02-11 00:58 <whitequark> like, it's the kind of bang you hear when you plug something with 10000uF cap into mains
2014-02-11 00:59 <DocScrutinizer05> that's bad! you need to do something, change the situation, eliminate the van der Graaf
2014-02-11 00:59 <whitequark> hehe
2014-02-11 01:00 <DocScrutinizer05> laminate may have a very high part of resin resp epoxy or plastic in general
2014-02-11 01:00 <DocScrutinizer05> your chair shouldn't be plastic either
2014-02-11 01:02 <whitequark> wpwrak: (exif) imgur strips exif data. likely because it's the default image host for reddit, and unknowingly posted exif is a huge source of personal data leaks
2014-02-11 01:02 <DocScrutinizer05> a desk lamp with PE-grounded metal case that you touch to switch it on, each time you sit down at your desk, may help wonders
2014-02-11 01:04 <DocScrutinizer05> but when you hear static noise when you stand up, then you got the van der Graaf locally at your desk, and then you *really* need to fix that
2014-02-11 01:04 <DocScrutinizer05> I's blame your chair
2014-02-11 01:04 <whitequark> I'm pretty sure it is the chair
2014-02-11 01:04 <DocScrutinizer05> and your desk surface together with the clothes on your forearms
2014-02-11 01:04 <whitequark> nah, no clothes on forearms--using a tshirt
2014-02-11 01:05 <DocScrutinizer05> ok, very good
2014-02-11 01:05 <DocScrutinizer05> use a conductive "blanket"
2014-02-11 01:05 <DocScrutinizer05> on your desk
2014-02-11 01:05 <DocScrutinizer05> way better than wrist band
2014-02-11 01:07 <whitequark> http://www.amazon.com/Elenco-Electronics-WS-3-23-Inch-Anti-Static/dp/B0002KXCYE/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1392080841&sr=8-3&keywords=esd ?
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2014-02-11 01:43 <DocScrutinizer05> whitequark: yep
2014-02-11 01:43 <DocScrutinizer05> get one that's large enough to not annoy you
2014-02-11 01:44 <DocScrutinizer05> I.E. one that's so large that you don't even think of placing something _not_ on the mat
2014-02-11 01:45 <DocScrutinizer05> of course a metal plate works as well
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2014-02-11 10:50 <apelete> Hi larsc
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2014-02-11 10:51 <apelete> larsc: did you receive the email of my documentation patch ?
2014-02-11 10:53 <apelete> larsc: there seems to be encoding issues on the patch, so I was wondering what I did wrong :-(
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2014-02-11 11:48 <larsc> apelete: I got the mail. What kind of encoding issue?
2014-02-11 12:10 <apelete> larsc: some characters does not show up: http://marc.info/?l=linux-doc&m=139199386820719&w=2
2014-02-11 12:10 <apelete> lkml doesn't even show the email at all: https://lkml.org/lkml/2014/2/9/285
2014-02-11 12:11 <apelete> larsc: but it's ok if you got the mail, that means it's a client issue
2014-02-11 12:14 <larsc> it looks good in my mail client
2014-02-11 12:14 <apelete> ok, thanks for the feedback
2014-02-11 12:15 <apelete> larsc: with the documentation done, I can now get back at debugging the dma in the mmc driver
2014-02-11 12:16 <apelete> expecting a painful experience, does not even know where to start :-(
2014-02-11 12:23 <larsc> should be that bad
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2014-02-11 13:18 <CYB3R> Is it possible to boot something on Xburst from USB (without flashing to NAND)
2014-02-11 13:18 <CYB3R> ?
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2014-02-11 13:23 <larsc> yes
2014-02-11 13:24 <CYB3R> larsc: what commands should I pass to jzboot?
2014-02-11 13:25 <larsc> that I don't know
2014-02-11 13:25 <larsc> has been a long time that I used it
2014-02-11 13:25 <larsc> for anything else but flashing the nand
2014-02-11 13:30 <CYB3R> Is it possible to use UART or GPIO without RAM?
2014-02-11 13:31 <larsc> yes
2014-02-11 13:31 <larsc> if your program fits in the OCM
2014-02-11 13:31 <larsc> aka IRAM
2014-02-11 13:32 <CYB3R> I will be soldering a board in a day or two, so I want to test if everything works
2014-02-11 13:33 <CYB3R> Maybe I'll be doing tests before soldering NAND and SDRAM
2014-02-11 13:45 <nicksydney> wpwrak: ping ~
2014-02-11 14:10 <wpwrak> qi-hw emergency response team. please state the nature of your emergency.
2014-02-11 14:14 <apelete> XD
2014-02-11 14:28 <larsc> not very responsive though that response team
2014-02-11 15:06 <wpwrak> well, the caller hung up ...
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2014-02-11 15:45 <CYB3R> just got awesome TCA8424RHAR from TI
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2014-02-11 17:05 <larsc> yeay, systemd *celebrate*
2014-02-11 17:06 <whitequark> you mean *mourn*
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2014-02-11 17:11 <larsc> I celebrate
2014-02-11 17:11 <wpwrak> whitequark: he means this kind of celebration: http://www.clipartpal.com/clipart_pd/holiday/halloween/halloweendance_10145.html
2014-02-11 17:11 <larsc> switching to upstart would be switching from a bad design to a bad design
2014-02-11 17:11 <larsc> switching to systemd is switching from a bad design to a good design
2014-02-11 17:12 <whitequark> you can't seriously call systemd a good design
2014-02-11 17:12 <whitequark> I could kinda accept "we don't currently have resources for yet another better init replacement"
2014-02-11 17:12 <whitequark> which we, unfortunately, likely don't
2014-02-11 17:13 <larsc> I can ;)
2014-02-11 17:13 <whitequark> then you're a troll
2014-02-11 17:14 <larsc> no
2014-02-11 17:14 <whitequark> wpwrak: http://os.colta.ru/m/photo/2011/09/22/6_5.jpg
2014-02-11 17:17 <wpwrak> that's a good crowd. once they get to the vodka, the celebration will be fun
2014-02-11 17:17 <wpwrak> (troll) or maybe he's poettering ? :)
2014-02-11 17:17 <roh> larsc: debian decided?
2014-02-11 17:17 <roh> nice
2014-02-11 17:18 <roh> whitequark: good designs can be reimplemented properly and become better. bad designs stay shit regardless of the number of implementations.
2014-02-11 17:19 <whitequark> roh: exactly, systemd can't be fixed.
2014-02-11 17:20 <kyak> whitequark: why is systemd bad design?
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2014-02-11 17:21 <whitequark> kyak: it's a monolithic thing which tries to do everything at once. from running services to managing networks to udev to tracking console sessions to displaying qr codes
2014-02-11 17:24 <kyak> well.. is it bad?
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2014-02-11 17:29 <whitequark> you'd think so
2014-02-11 17:36 <larsc> whitequark: http://0pointer.de/blog/projects/the-biggest-myths.html
2014-02-11 17:38 <whitequark> larsc: okay, after looking at 20 and 22 I'll maybe reconsider it.
2014-02-11 17:39 <roh> whitequark: upstart can't be fixed
2014-02-11 17:39 <roh> and sysv is through.
2014-02-11 17:39 <roh> systemd can be fixed. atleast its a sane concept cleaning up all the sins of the stone-age a bit better
2014-02-11 17:40 <dos1> the biggest pain of systemd for me is that it's Linux only
2014-02-11 17:40 <roh> its not perfect for sure. but its a change, which i think can help us out more than upstart and sysv together.
2014-02-11 17:40 <dos1> but I guess that could be fixed
2014-02-11 17:41 <roh> also note.. for embedded you usually use something different.. like openwrt
2014-02-11 17:41 <whitequark> dos1: actually that one probably could not. lennart said this explicitly, even
2014-02-11 17:41 <larsc> it's very hard to fix
2014-02-11 17:41 <whitequark> "too much linux-specific interfaces"
2014-02-11 17:41 <roh> openwrt uses its own replacement: procd and its companions netifd and some more.
2014-02-11 17:41 <larsc> you'd have to port stuff like cgroups to $TARGET_OS
2014-02-11 17:41 <roh> whitequark: i could not care less. yes its linux specific so what.
2014-02-11 17:41 <dos1> I don't mean systemd implementation, but the design
2014-02-11 17:42 <whitequark> roh: tat was to dos1
2014-02-11 17:42 <roh> solaris has another, own implementation of all that, osx too.. so why care?
2014-02-11 17:42 <whitequark> *that
2014-02-11 17:42 <roh> whitequark: sorry
2014-02-11 17:42 <whitequark> dos1: implementing it is a huge deal though... since it's so complex
2014-02-11 17:42 <roh> yes.. dos1. doesnt matter.
2014-02-11 17:43 <dos1> I believe that good design should be at least somehow portable
2014-02-11 17:43 <roh> dos1: no.
2014-02-11 17:43 <dos1> if POSIX lacks some features, extend it and provide well-defined standard, so anyone else can implement it if they want
2014-02-11 17:44 <roh> good designs solve proplems. defined problems. when you define all problems into one, your design will be bad and never be implemented properly.
2014-02-11 17:44 <roh> and posix is part of the problem, not the solution.
2014-02-11 17:44 <whitequark> dos1: you forget though that POSIX is defined after the fact
2014-02-11 17:44 <roh> see gnu hurd. posix to the death doesnt dolve anything.
2014-02-11 17:44 <whitequark> look at POSIX AIO. no one implements or uses it.
2014-02-11 17:45 <roh> forget classic unix. thats whats holding us back. yeah there are some good parts on that concepts. those we keep. but the legacy mindfuck can go and stay away
2014-02-11 17:45 <whitequark> I'm not even sure how POSIX is useful for anything except extorting money for certifications
2014-02-11 17:45 <roh> in the future one will have linux with systemd and ipc via kdbus.
2014-02-11 17:45 <whitequark> because there's as much subtly incompatible implementations as there are kernels
2014-02-11 17:46 <dos1> from my point of view, if there's some well documented standard (call it even "the Linux standard") I can conform to when writing my own kernel and that will be enough to make systemd working on my kernel, then it's "portable enough"
2014-02-11 17:46 <whitequark> as many*
2014-02-11 17:46 <whitequark> dos1: you'd be basically rewriting implementation details of Linux. that's the problem.
2014-02-11 17:47 <dos1> I don't care if this standard is in fact POSIX, Win32 or anything else
2014-02-11 17:47 <whitequark> what is the point of implementing your own kernel just to badly emulate Linux with it?
2014-02-11 17:47 <dos1> whitequark: yes. that's why I want well defined and documented standard, not "Linux emulation"
2014-02-11 17:48 <whitequark> it's a chicken-and-egg problem. you need competing implementations for a sensible standard to emerge
2014-02-11 17:49 <dos1> you might be right
2014-02-11 17:49 <whitequark> and I honestly don't think that any kernel is going to compete with Linux in... a decade or something? at least. that's how long it takes to set things up
2014-02-11 17:49 <roh> dos1: there is nox _fixed_ standard
2014-02-11 17:49 <roh> you are always dependant on behaviour and features of the state of versions you code against.
2014-02-11 17:49 <dos1> but I fear that it will stop on "custom implementation" stage, exactly for that (I honestly don't think that any kernel is going to compete with Linux in... a decade or something?) reason
2014-02-11 17:49 <roh> so YES, compiling something against a glibc2.something makes one depending on that or later compat.
2014-02-11 17:50 <roh> but hey... you COULD just do opensource or recompile your crud from time to time. and be fine.
2014-02-11 17:50 <whitequark> you don't get standards by thinking "oh we need to make a standard for it"
2014-02-11 17:50 <roh> compatibility is something one can have cheap and easy.. on the source level.
2014-02-11 17:50 <whitequark> that's how you get "standards" like that shit microsoft creates. it solves only the use case of the person writing it
2014-02-11 17:50 <dos1> source level is enough for me
2014-02-11 17:50 <whitequark> you need actual competing implementations people would use
2014-02-11 17:50 <roh> the kernel will never be complete
2014-02-11 17:50 <whitequark> and collaboration
2014-02-11 17:50 <whitequark> a lot of it
2014-02-11 17:51 <whitequark> see: browsers
2014-02-11 17:51 <roh> linux is an iterative, evolving process of an os. nothing which will ever be done, complete or finished, i think
2014-02-11 17:51 <whitequark> is software ever complete? :)
2014-02-11 17:52 <dos1> whitequark: I understand, but I don't want Linux to became new Internet Explorer :P
2014-02-11 17:52 <dos1> s/became/become/
2014-02-11 17:52 <qi-bot> dos1 meant: "whitequark: I understand, but I don't want Linux to become new Internet Explorer :P"
2014-02-11 17:53 <dos1> I'm not against custom extentions, new features outside of standard etc.
2014-02-11 17:53 <dos1> I'm against IE mentality when doing so
2014-02-11 17:53 <whitequark> well, IE was deliberately made incompatible
2014-02-11 17:53 <dos1> and systemd story somehow triggers some warning light in my head
2014-02-11 17:54 <dos1> hopefully it's false alarm :P
2014-02-11 17:54 <larsc> well you can't run the BSD init system or the solaris init system or the MacOSX init system on Linux either, but I get your point
2014-02-11 17:56 <dos1> I don't know much about non-Linux init systems - so maybe if I did, then the same light would blink as crazy when thinking about them ;)
2014-02-11 17:56 <whitequark> sstemd looks quite a bit like launchd
2014-02-11 17:56 <whitequark> (osx init)
2014-02-11 17:57 <larsc> some features were inspired by launchd
2014-02-11 17:57 <dos1> maybe except OS X, as I simply don't care
2014-02-11 17:57 <dos1> I don't expect anything from Apple, as they can't expect me to be their customer ;]
2014-02-11 17:57 <CYB3R> Anyone knows if Jolla is using systemd or not?
2014-02-11 17:58 <whitequark> it makes no sense to be ignorant about design, even if you don't use the system just because of licensing terms
2014-02-11 17:59 <dos1> whitequark: maybe, but if I won't use it because of licensing terms, then I don't care about it being portable and for sure never will
2014-02-11 17:59 <larsc> it's a bit sad that the Unices and Unix-like OSs are drifting apart API wise. But systemd is not the problem
2014-02-11 18:00 <larsc> merly a symptom of the problem if you will so
2014-02-11 18:00 <whitequark> dos1: portability != design. I may never run OSX but I sure will look into how its kernel is done
2014-02-11 18:00 <whitequark> (well, except its kernel is a decade behind Linux so I actually won't. but I could.)
2014-02-11 18:00 <dos1> whitequark: :nod:
2014-02-11 18:01 <larsc> "good artists copy, great artists steal" ;)
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2014-02-11 23:31 <wpwrak> (posix) that discussion is bizarre. posix was one of the biggest steps forward in the whole history of unix. before, there was a gazillion of diverging unices. that's was the situation that got us things like autocrap.
2014-02-11 23:52 <nicksydney> wpwrak: was reading the mailing list about nano....when the project was started the ingenic chip was sourced from ingenic directly ?