2014-02-07 00:04 <nicksydney> DocScrutinizer05: so he is more in the camp of 'closed hardware' ?
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2014-02-07 00:51 <DocScrutinizer05> I dunno which "camp" he is. I just know that the iniative to maybe eventually disclose the Neo900 eagle project files came from my side and Nikolaus is very reluctant and the topic not finalized yet
2014-02-07 00:52 <DocScrutinizer05> initiative*
2014-02-07 00:54 <DocScrutinizer05> Nikolaus says that the public schematics should suffice
2014-02-07 00:56 <DocScrutinizer05> this however isn't what some guys understand by "open hardware". And I'm pretty sure Nikolaus will not push in pandora in any such direction
2014-02-07 00:58 <DocScrutinizer05> he's not one of the radical "FOSS hardware" fans, he has a more pragmatic approach towards "hardware with open documentation"
2014-02-07 01:00 <DocScrutinizer05> btw he's on same page like me regarding that
2014-02-07 01:02 <DocScrutinizer05> I also don't see why community would need a professional eagle project file that nobody could use for anything, unless they have a license of Eagle Professional and would want to start their own competing business building the Neo900 in nnn batches
2014-02-07 01:02 <DocScrutinizer05> btw Openmoko never published those data
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2014-02-07 01:10 <nicksydney> interesting to head this
2014-02-07 01:10 <nicksydney> not sure about competitor...but having the schematics it will helped maker like myself and also future students in uni to learn on how this devices actually work  and try to make it (if ever they want to go to that path)
2014-02-07 01:11 <nicksydney> i've learned a *LOT* more about hardware after reading lot of schematics and see the pattern and resemblence in each design
2014-02-07 01:11 <nicksydney> myoelectric sensors - https://www.google.com.au/search?q=myoelectric+sensors&client=ubuntu&hs=Vab&channel=fs&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=KzL0UoDRIYmYlQWwwIGQAQ&ved=0CCoQsAQ&biw=1615&bih=960 ... interesting
2014-02-07 01:13 <nicksydney> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z1npwCTQ7-w
2014-02-07 01:13 <DocScrutinizer05> sure, and schematics is what open hardware will ship with. NOT the gerbers for PCB manufacturing though
2014-02-07 01:14 <nicksydney> yeah that should be more than enough
2014-02-07 01:15 <DocScrutinizer05> the purpose of such a project usually is NOT to allow others to build it themselves, it's to empower the user to OWN the device completely, and understand every single (relevant) detail of how it works
2014-02-07 01:16 <DocScrutinizer05> layout is not a relevant detail in this scenario
2014-02-07 01:16 <DocScrutinizer05> component placement plus schematics is sufficient even to do most sophisticated repair jobs
2014-02-07 01:18 <nicksydney> there will always different thoughts and ideas from different party
2014-02-07 01:18 <DocScrutinizer05> eh?
2014-02-07 01:20 <DocScrutinizer05> I create a product. I define the product. the definition says: user gets full documentation needed to understand and even repair everything in the device. Why should I bother about any different thoughts and ideas?
2014-02-07 01:21 <DocScrutinizer05> if you like my product as defined, you may consider buying it. Otherwise, not.
2014-02-07 01:21 <nicksydney> what i'm trying to point out is people look at a project will think different than people who are in the project....and it will not be possible to please people who are outside the project and fulfill what they want
2014-02-07 01:22 <DocScrutinizer05> when I label this product "open hardware" then your definition of the term might differ, but that's still not my problem
2014-02-07 01:22 <nicksydney> exactly !
2014-02-07 01:23 <nicksydney> so it depends on the people who are running the project to do what they think is best for the project as people outside will always complain and whine all the time and there is no point spending time catering for their whining...better start their own project if they want to
2014-02-07 01:23 <DocScrutinizer05> yes
2014-02-07 01:23 <DocScrutinizer05> :-)
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2014-02-07 01:24 <nicksydney> this always apply for any project I see either it's hardware or software
2014-02-07 01:24 <DocScrutinizer05> sure
2014-02-07 01:25 <nicksydney> if people want to demand something than better contribute otherwise just be a spectator
2014-02-07 01:26 <DocScrutinizer05> well, depends. When the product is closed and doesn't comply the specs and/or implicit promises it came with, then of course I may complain at those in charge to fix the problem
2014-02-07 01:28 <DocScrutinizer05> when however the product is 100% open, then I hardly can argue that anything in the product needs to get changed or done in a different way, since I bought it the way it is and it's been known at that time.
2014-02-07 01:28 <nicksydney> that is consumer's right of course
2014-02-07 01:28 <nicksydney> if you buy something regarless of the nature of the license and you are not delivered the promised product you have the absolute right to complain
2014-02-07 01:29 <nicksydney> but if from the beginning it is stated that the spec may be different after production than there is nothing can be done
2014-02-07 01:29 <nicksydney> that's why a lot of complain about kickstarter
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2014-02-07 01:29 <DocScrutinizer05> hmm yeah
2014-02-07 01:30 <DocScrutinizer05> that's why Neo900 only specifies targets, but no warranted specs
2014-02-07 01:30 <DocScrutinizer05> we however will publish specs and even schematics before we accept first real order for a product
2014-02-07 01:31 <DocScrutinizer05> until then, everything subject to change
2014-02-07 01:32 <DocScrutinizer05> even up to the point where the project gets cancelled (since maybe the two guys who lead it can't agree on stupid organizational stuff, and silly requirements are put up)
2014-02-07 01:44 <nicksydney> i'm always intrigued on how project like openmoko for example start ... neo900 is like part 2 of openmoko....maybe you can point me to any reading ?
2014-02-07 01:49 <DocScrutinizer05> http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=91142
2014-02-07 01:50 <DocScrutinizer05> the third word is a URL link to history
2014-02-07 01:50 <nicksydney> damn! 174 pages to read through :) ... this is going to take my weekend project away :)
2014-02-07 01:50 <nicksydney> "the third word is a URL link to history" ??
2014-02-07 01:54 <DocScrutinizer05> http://markmail.org/message/4mawtyyeizlcejss?q=android, and  http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.comp.handhelds.maemo.community/5428 been even yet another month earlier
2014-02-07 01:55 <DocScrutinizer05> >>so it begun:<< 3rd word is a link
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2014-02-07 08:03 <whitequark> wpwrak: actually, I have some doubts whether *endmill* is the right thing to use on *PCBs*
2014-02-07 08:03 <whitequark> I think I would have much more success (and less breakage) with engraving bits simply due to the fact that they're more mechanically durable
2014-02-07 08:04 <whitequark> sure, it is a problem that they're conical and not cylindrical, but it doesn't matter with the Z precision of my mill
2014-02-07 08:08 <whitequark> it really pisses me off that Amazon doesn't have filtering by delivery speed... 17-28 business days is not acceptable
2014-02-07 08:16 <whitequark> oh, the same vendor on ebay offers expedited shipping, good.
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2014-02-07 12:44 <qi-bot> [commit] Paul Cercueil: Show disk usage of the home partition, not the one mounted on /boot (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/gmenu2x/b084681
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2014-02-07 16:10 <kyak> out of interest. anybody watching the olympics opening right now?
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2014-02-07 16:15 <viric> kyak: in the city free of gays? :)
2014-02-07 16:16 <viric> The Mer was very proud of "that"
2014-02-07 16:17 <kyak> ok
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2014-02-07 18:21 <CYB3R> Hi all!
2014-02-07 18:23 <CYB3R> Could anyone please explain me where to find Tref value for SDRAM?
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