2014-02-06 00:01 dos1 has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 2014-02-06 00:08 arielenter1 has joined #qi-hardware 2014-02-06 00:09 arielenter has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 2014-02-06 00:10 arielenter1 has quit [Client Quit] 2014-02-06 00:14 rzk has quit [] 2014-02-06 00:48 wolfspra1l has joined #qi-hardware 2014-02-06 00:51 wolfspraul has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 2014-02-06 00:56 Markvilla has quit [Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"]] 2014-02-06 01:02 wpwrak: any suggestion what is a good pH, Temp sensor for aquarium ? 2014-02-06 01:37 kristianpaul has quit [Quit: leaving] 2014-02-06 01:42 kristianpaul has joined #qi-hardware 2014-02-06 02:06 fish ? the direction of their bellies indicates whether the parameters would be agreeable to ... fish 2014-02-06 02:12 (or, in other words: no idea :) 2014-02-06 02:32 wej has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 2014-02-06 02:46 wej has joined #qi-hardware 2014-02-06 02:55 wej has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 2014-02-06 02:55 arielenter has joined #qi-hardware 2014-02-06 03:10 wej has joined #qi-hardware 2014-02-06 03:13 wpwrak: direction of their bellies :)....sounds like a belly dance coming up :) 2014-02-06 04:59 apelete_ has joined #qi-hardware 2014-02-06 05:00 apelete has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 2014-02-06 05:00 Guest44084 has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 2014-02-06 05:08 Luke-Jr has quit [Excess Flood] 2014-02-06 05:08 Luke-Jr has joined #qi-hardware 2014-02-06 05:20 was dreaming about t-shirt with #qi-hardware on it ;) 2014-02-06 05:27 arielenter has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 2014-02-06 05:43 arielenter has joined #qi-hardware 2014-02-06 05:47 arielenter has quit [Client Quit] 2014-02-06 06:20 arielenter has joined #qi-hardware 2014-02-06 06:36 arielenter has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 2014-02-06 06:44 arielenter has joined #qi-hardware 2014-02-06 06:47 arielenter has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 2014-02-06 06:47 arielenter has joined #qi-hardware 2014-02-06 06:51 arielenter has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 2014-02-06 06:56 arielenter has joined #qi-hardware 2014-02-06 07:03 DocScrutinizer05 has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 2014-02-06 07:05 DocScrutinizer05 has joined #qi-hardware 2014-02-06 07:16 arielenter has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 2014-02-06 07:51 * DocScrutinizer05 slaps wpwrak with a K&R for not having #ifdef build-for-wpwrak in his makefiles 2014-02-06 07:59 nicksydney: I guess any electronic pH sensor that's fish-safe is not exactly a simple and easy piece of technology 2014-02-06 08:00 you generally don't want any physical-chemical reactions that possibly create toxin to go to the water of your aquarium 2014-02-06 08:01 so any consuming or active process is basically ruled out 2014-02-06 08:01 apelete_ is now known as apelete 2014-02-06 08:04 I could figure to use something like a chemical reversible pH indicator embedded into some substrate (think litmus) plus an opto-electronics to read that out 2014-02-06 08:08 well, OR you find a set of reagents that definitely don't create any toxic products. Like CO2 and Ca for the two electrodes. I bet whitequark has a much better idea about what's possible regarding that 2014-02-06 08:11 DocScrutinizer05: it's $7 on ebay 2014-02-06 08:11 I dunno if some electrode materials like stainless steel plus platinium or whatever maybe create a sort of "diode" in watery acids and alkaline, just by effects of ion-to-surface adhesion or whatever 2014-02-06 08:11 ph sensor for fish 2014-02-06 08:11 and it works by using a porous glass as a semi-permeable membrane for an electrode 2014-02-06 08:12 whitequark: yeah, I'm sure once you found sth that works and doesn't kill your fish, it's cheap and simple to build 2014-02-06 08:12 so, charge carriers (H+) can pass, but all other crap can not 2014-02-06 08:12 no, I don't think you can cheaply duplicate that design, it needs glasswork 2014-02-06 08:12 nifty 2014-02-06 08:12 well, that's what ph meter in our anal. chem classes was made of 2014-02-06 08:13 and from the looks of it, the fish one is the same 2014-02-06 08:13 http://www.ebay.com/itm/QZO-PH-Electrode-Probe-BNC-Connector-for-Aquarium-PH-Controller-Meter-Sensor-/141120757090?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item20db73dd62 2014-02-06 08:14 I don't exactly remember how one drives a probe... I think you just pour an electrolyte inside and measure the potential 2014-02-06 08:14 ooh - calib solution. i thought that's some consumable gue 2014-02-06 08:14 yeah, it comes with the electrolyte even 2014-02-06 08:15 I wouldn't like the idea to refill such probe with some obscure liquid 2014-02-06 08:15 it's not really permeable to anything bigger than water molecules 2014-02-06 08:15 maybe even bigger than H+ 2014-02-06 08:15 the latter 2014-02-06 08:15 it wouldn't work otherwise 2014-02-06 08:16 well, see, there's no such thing as H+ 2014-02-06 08:16 yeah 2014-02-06 08:16 you have a protonated H2O surrounded by a gigantic shell of like eighty more H2Os 2014-02-06 08:17 http://www.sensorland.com/HowPage037.html 2014-02-06 08:17 nice 2014-02-06 08:18 by the way, your ideas for a ph meter were truly horrible :D 2014-02-06 08:18 damn, I knew it: > >A solution in the reference electrode also makes contact with th esample solution and the measuring electrode through a junction,...<< 2014-02-06 08:18 well, first two. the third is actually pretty close 2014-02-06 08:19 first TWO? 2014-02-06 08:19 litmus and Ca/CO2 ones 2014-02-06 08:19 ooh yep 2014-02-06 08:20 (makes contact) it's still through a semi-permeable membrane. the electrolyte doesn't escape that electrode as well 2014-02-06 08:20 the second one is obvious nonsense 2014-02-06 08:20 the first one might actually work in one way or another 2014-02-06 08:20 well, it's just a pain to calibrate 2014-02-06 08:20 and reproducibly measure 2014-02-06 08:21 I think that depends on particular build 2014-02-06 08:22 I'd be more worried about contamination/oxidation/deterioration of the indicator 2014-02-06 08:22 in short: long term stability 2014-02-06 08:22 there's also the fact that they never cover a big range 2014-02-06 08:22 and where they do produce measurable differences (or just work at all), it's quite nonlinear 2014-02-06 08:23 really, no one uses ph indicators to *measure* ph. you use an indicator with a "trip point" you need, and then watch for that trip point 2014-02-06 08:23 it's binary, not continuous 2014-02-06 08:24 which probably is just fine for fish ;-) 2014-02-06 08:24 there's technically an "universal" indicator which is a mix of a lot of other indicators with different trip points 2014-02-06 08:24 but it kinda sucks 2014-02-06 08:24 I dunno what fish need 2014-02-06 08:24 completely no clue 2014-02-06 08:25 know red cabbage? 2014-02-06 08:25 which could also eb called blue cabbage 2014-02-06 08:25 and eveb greenish, when in pH-7 range 2014-02-06 08:26 or was it blue in pH-7 range, and green in alkaline environment? 2014-02-06 08:26 yeah I do 2014-02-06 08:27 it's really crude compared to modern synthetic indicators :) 2014-02-06 08:27 seems at least trinary 2014-02-06 08:27 well. it really depends on what fish needs 2014-02-06 08:27 with a rather fuzzy transition zone 2014-02-06 08:28 if you do get into that "sweet spot" where the indicator has high delta-freq per delta-ph, good for you 2014-02-06 08:28 yeah sure 2014-02-06 08:28 I really was more thinking about ranges like 1-13... which is definitely not what fish needs 2014-02-06 08:28 I'm not really good at chemical stuff 2014-02-06 08:29 in fact it will dissolve at both ends of that range, much less breathe 2014-02-06 08:30 dang. seems my N950 sat 2 weeks on my desk in standby, and now it started complaining than I accidentally unplugged the charger ;-) 2014-02-06 08:30 .s/than/that/ 2014-02-06 08:30 charging uptime counter overflow? 2014-02-06 08:30 nah, w2 weeks of standby on one battery charge 2014-02-06 08:30 I think win98 bsoded after at most 49 days, because a 32-bit ms count overflowed 2014-02-06 08:31 now it started making noises due to low battery 2014-02-06 08:31 might have been 3 weeks, I can't recall for sure when I last messed with the 7 chargers on my desk 2014-02-06 08:33 (chemical stuff) my point been that - to test pH - you most probably need to engage into a *chemical* interaction with the substance under test. And that's *always* nasty 2014-02-06 08:34 my 3rd suggestion been around some maybe clean physical method to probe, that doesn't involve any chemical reactions 2014-02-06 08:34 that ph meter from ebay isn't chemical in the sense you mean 2014-02-06 08:35 neither electrodes nor solution inside changes during the life of electrode 2014-02-06 08:35 not even a tiny bit 2014-02-06 08:35 it obviously is when you need to fill it with some liquid 2014-02-06 08:35 you don't need to *re*fill it 2014-02-06 08:35 it's the physical analog of the potentiometer on your DMM, a reference potential 2014-02-06 08:35 it literally provides a reference potential 2014-02-06 08:36 I wonder how it works then 2014-02-06 08:36 well. http://www.sensorland.com/Images/pH002.gif 2014-02-06 08:36 when some substance diffuses thru the semipermeable membrane there will be some sort of "chemical" activity 2014-02-06 08:37 from what I understand 2014-02-06 08:39 actually I'm wrong here 2014-02-06 08:39 they do have a finite life 2014-02-06 08:40 yeah, thought as much 2014-02-06 08:40 ok I need to sleep so badly right now 2014-02-06 08:40 every pH probe has to work like a chemical battery basically 2014-02-06 08:40 I'll figure it out when I'm not dropping on spot 2014-02-06 08:40 yeah roughly 2014-02-06 08:40 unless you make it work like a rechargable battery 2014-02-06 08:40 I wonder what the details are 2014-02-06 08:41 hey, your sleep periods are almost as skewed as mine 2014-02-06 08:42 word 2014-02-06 08:42 I think you could create a "rechargeable" pH probe that 100% chemically regenerates during "charging" period 2014-02-06 08:43 charge to 10C, the probe for 1 second, then again charge to 10C 2014-02-06 08:43 then* 2014-02-06 08:44 the voltage during "discharging" should be proportional to pH 2014-02-06 08:46 just like you can't charge a LiIon (of common chemistry) to more than 4.3V, due to the chemical system 2014-02-06 08:46 no matter how much you overcharge it 2014-02-06 08:48 sth like Pt-Fe or the like might actually work for that 2014-02-06 08:48 Pt-C maybe 2014-02-06 08:48 maybe even Au-C 2014-02-06 08:50 H+ may get "adsorbed" by one of the material surfaces, the more pH the more voltage 2014-02-06 08:50 "charging" should "clean" both electrodes again 2014-02-06 08:52 as long as your charging voltage is < electrolytic voltage of H2O, nothing bad shall happen. Of course this voltage has to suffice to completely "charge" the system 2014-02-06 08:53 so the electrochemical distance between the two electrode materials shall be < H2O electrolytic voltage 2014-02-06 08:53 I shpould shut up, chemistry is my weak spot 2014-02-06 08:55 just suffices for a thorough fascination for violent redox reactions and spontaneous decay of unstable molecules 2014-02-06 08:56 the latter ones particularly funny, I always tend to think of house made of cards 2014-02-06 09:28 reading http://www.sensorland.com/HowPage037.html I recall the awesome electron tube powered voltmeter I had in the 70s. IIRC it had an input impedance of 100G-Ohm/V 2014-02-06 09:28 you're literally entering a whole new world of physical effects with such a device 2014-02-06 09:29 probe the electrostatic charge of plastic objects, discover photovoltaic effects where you never expected them, etc 2014-02-06 10:59 lekernel has joined #qi-hardware 2014-02-06 11:01 dandon has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 2014-02-06 11:02 dandon has joined #qi-hardware 2014-02-06 11:13 xiangfu has joined #qi-hardware 2014-02-06 11:41 wej has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 2014-02-06 11:43 wej has joined #qi-hardware 2014-02-06 12:04 wej has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 2014-02-06 12:07 wej has joined #qi-hardware 2014-02-06 12:32 lekernel has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 2014-02-06 12:45 lekernel has joined #qi-hardware 2014-02-06 12:49 wej has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 2014-02-06 12:52 wej has joined #qi-hardware 2014-02-06 13:37 ENDMILLS 2014-02-06 13:40 whitequark + endmills = joy ;-) 2014-02-06 13:50 rz2k has joined #qi-hardware 2014-02-06 13:59 pcercuei has joined #qi-hardware 2014-02-06 14:33 xiangfu has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 2014-02-06 14:36 pcercuei has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 2014-02-06 14:37 pcercuei has joined #qi-hardware 2014-02-06 15:29 pcercuei has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 2014-02-06 15:30 pcercuei has joined #qi-hardware 2014-02-06 16:04 arielenter has joined #qi-hardware 2014-02-06 16:17 pcercuei has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 2014-02-06 16:19 pcercuei has joined #qi-hardware 2014-02-06 16:24 pcercuei has quit [Client Quit] 2014-02-06 16:31 xiangfu has joined #qi-hardware 2014-02-06 16:35 arielenter has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 2014-02-06 16:36 arielenter has joined #qi-hardware 2014-02-06 16:58 pcercuei has joined #qi-hardware 2014-02-06 17:10 viric has joined #qi-hardware 2014-02-06 17:16 wej has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 2014-02-06 17:25 pcercuei has quit [Quit: leaving] 2014-02-06 17:28 xiangfu has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 2014-02-06 17:36 wej has joined #qi-hardware 2014-02-06 17:39 dos1 has joined #qi-hardware 2014-02-06 17:46 uwe__ is now known as uwe_ 2014-02-06 17:58 Coyo has joined #qi-hardware 2014-02-06 17:59 Coyo is now known as Guest5506 2014-02-06 18:40 arielenter has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 2014-02-06 18:46 lekernel has quit [Quit: Leaving] 2014-02-06 19:02 arielenter has joined #qi-hardware 2014-02-06 19:28 Luke-Jr has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 2014-02-06 19:28 Luke-Jr has joined #qi-hardware 2014-02-06 19:28 arielenter has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 2014-02-06 20:12 arielenter has joined #qi-hardware 2014-02-06 21:01 arielenter has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 2014-02-06 21:21 arielenter has joined #qi-hardware 2014-02-06 22:01 okay, it broke in about 20 seconds. 2014-02-06 22:01 always happens the first time 2014-02-06 22:15 wpwrak: http://www.ebay.com/itm/281237663711 2014-02-06 22:27 DocScrutinizer05: thanks for the explanation 2014-02-06 22:37 arielenter has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 2014-02-06 22:38 https://makeplaylive.com/#/home seems like the arm-netbook community has launch it 2014-02-06 22:41 arielenter has joined #qi-hardware 2014-02-06 22:48 arielenter1 has joined #qi-hardware 2014-02-06 22:48 arielenter has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 2014-02-06 22:51 rz2k has quit [] 2014-02-06 22:54 arielenter1 has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 2014-02-06 22:56 paul_boddie has joined #qi-hardware 2014-02-06 22:58 nicksydney: Did you link to the DragonBox Pyra or was that someone else? http://www.pyra-handheld.com/ 2014-02-06 22:58 someone else 2014-02-06 22:58 never seen that one before ..thanks 2014-02-06 22:59 It's the OpenPandora successor, although the open doesn't refer to the hardware. 2014-02-06 22:59 yeah ... noticed in the team Dr. Nikolaus Schaller...very nice ! 2014-02-06 22:59 I hope that on this one Nikolaus will get them to open the designs or something. 2014-02-06 23:00 Maybe I heard about it via the GTA04/Neo900 channels. 2014-02-06 23:00 maybe DocScrutinizer05 know something about this ? 2014-02-06 23:01 yikes! the tech specs is mad ! 2x ARM Cortex-A15 @ 1.7Ghz with NEON SIMD....YUMMY ! 2014-02-06 23:01 using Texas Instruments OMAP 5 SoC 2014-02-06 23:06 The blog post about shopping around for SoCs is informative: http://boards.openpandora.org/topic/15560-soc-back-and-forth/ 2014-02-06 23:06 A good reminder of why the open hardware movement needs to reach the SoC level. 2014-02-06 23:16 paul_boddie: thanks...a very good read indeed..especially for someone like me who are new and still learning :) 2014-02-06 23:19 I think you're more of an expert than you think now. Way beyond my level, at least in terms of willingness to get your hands dirty. :-) 2014-02-06 23:20 And as for all this ARM stuff, my ARM activities largely fell away long before it became popular and cool. 2014-02-06 23:21 But I think I'll go retro for a bit just for the fun of it. Maybe even fire up the emulators again. :-) 2014-02-06 23:22 paul_boddie: never too late to learn anything...just trying as much as possible to absorb so much information that i can read ...boy i think if my brain can talk it will say "STOP! you are hurting me :) " .. heheh 2014-02-06 23:23 It really is a golden age for tinkering, that's for sure. 2014-02-06 23:25 yeah it is...never expect the day will come for us engineers :) 2014-02-06 23:25 or artists for that matter :) 2014-02-06 23:27 this is another cool thing happening now https://devart.withgoogle.com/ 2014-02-06 23:42 I have no idea about openpandora / pyra 2014-02-06 23:43 and nikolaus is not that much a fan of open hardware actually, to push the pandora team towards anything like that. My notion at least 2014-02-06 23:59 paul_boddie has quit []