2014-02-02 00:47 xiangfu has joined #qi-hardware 2014-02-02 00:52 wolfspraul has joined #qi-hardware 2014-02-02 00:55 wolfspra1l has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 2014-02-02 01:37 dos1 has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 2014-02-02 01:47 Markvilla has joined #qi-hardware 2014-02-02 03:10 xiangfu has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 2014-02-02 03:24 xiangfu has joined #qi-hardware 2014-02-02 05:07 rozzin has quit [Excess Flood] 2014-02-02 05:07 bartbes has quit [Excess Flood] 2014-02-02 05:07 bartbes has joined #qi-hardware 2014-02-02 05:08 rozzin has joined #qi-hardware 2014-02-02 05:39 [commit] Werner Almesberger: cameo/fped2d2z.pl: hack: maintain decimal point across flipping (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/cae-tools/453f64e 2014-02-02 05:47 viric has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 2014-02-02 05:48 viric has joined #qi-hardware 2014-02-02 06:18 Markvilla has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 2014-02-02 06:55 qi-bot has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 2014-02-02 07:37 xiangfu has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 2014-02-02 08:14 qi-bot has joined #qi-hardware 2014-02-02 09:01 pcercueiS2 has joined #qi-hardware 2014-02-02 09:21 pcercueiS2 has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 2014-02-02 09:21 pcercueiS2 has joined #qi-hardware 2014-02-02 09:25 lekernel has joined #qi-hardware 2014-02-02 09:27 Ornotermes has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 2014-02-02 09:33 pcercueiS2 has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 2014-02-02 09:53 Powermaniac has joined #qi-hardware 2014-02-02 09:54 Ornotermes has joined #qi-hardware 2014-02-02 10:18 * whitequark just made his first isolation milled board 2014-02-02 10:18 I'm starting to really like this process 2014-02-02 10:32 Powermaniac_ has joined #qi-hardware 2014-02-02 10:36 Ornoterm1s has joined #qi-hardware 2014-02-02 10:37 Powermaniac has quit [Disconnected by services] 2014-02-02 10:38 Powermaniac_ is now known as Powermaniac 2014-02-02 10:38 wow. the mill must be quite precise if you got it to work so quickly 2014-02-02 10:40 Ornotermes has quit [*.net *.split] 2014-02-02 11:04 wpwrak: oh? what problems did you expect to arise? 2014-02-02 11:04 it's not quite "works" yet, because my engraving bit is a tad too big for tqfp (0.5mm tip), but otherwise I'm satisfied with the result 2014-02-02 11:06 (problems) pcb not perfectly level, bad toolpaths, many tries needed to find a good speed 2014-02-02 11:06 xiangfu has joined #qi-hardware 2014-02-02 11:07 (pcb level) the pcb I've bought was pretty flat. so I just used a lot of two-sided duct tape and it laid out perfectly 2014-02-02 11:08 (toolpaths) eagle's pcb-gcode ULP generates very nice toolpaths 2014-02-02 11:08 not that generating toolpaths for pcb milling is rocket science 2014-02-02 11:09 (good speed) dunno, I just spun it to the maximum speed and went with the default feedrate. guess I got lucky :) 2014-02-02 11:09 I guess this will be more of an issue with the proper 0.2mm endmill. 2014-02-02 11:12 probably :) 2014-02-02 11:12 http://pcbgcode.org/ <- 2014-02-02 11:12 xiangfu has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 2014-02-02 11:16 xiangfu has joined #qi-hardware 2014-02-02 11:30 seems like there is a chinese company that is making Bitcoin chip https://109.201.133.195/index.php?topic=364236.0 2014-02-02 11:30 chip is called BM1380 2014-02-02 11:31 https://bitmaintech.com/product.htm 2014-02-02 11:34 there are probably a dozen chonise companies making bitcoin chips 2014-02-02 11:36 pcercueiS2 has joined #qi-hardware 2014-02-02 11:38 https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Mining_hardware_comparison 2014-02-02 11:39 really, mining is not interesting anymore 2014-02-02 11:48 nicksydney has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 2014-02-02 11:48 nicksydney has joined #qi-hardware 2014-02-02 12:00 just start your own $COIN 2014-02-02 12:07 xiangfu has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 2014-02-02 12:14 hey larsc 2014-02-02 12:23 dos1 has joined #qi-hardware 2014-02-02 12:32 lekernel has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 2014-02-02 12:34 larsc: in the last century you'd start your own religion / sect to get money and girls; these days, you start your own currency to get money; i guess in the next century you'll start your own own language and ... get nothing 2014-02-02 12:35 we're already here 2014-02-02 12:35 programming language :) 2014-02-02 12:40 pcercueiS2 has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 2014-02-02 12:43 interesting discussion of hacking and putting electronic in your body http://discuss.biohack.me/discussions 2014-02-02 12:44 wpwrak: in the next century you start selling cells :) 2014-02-02 12:46 lekernel has joined #qi-hardware 2014-02-02 13:09 cells? 2014-02-02 13:11 whitequark: human cells :) 2014-02-02 13:12 my blue sky prediction :) 2014-02-02 13:14 why do you need to sell them? 2014-02-02 13:14 I mean, it's (relatively) trivial to cultivate them however you want 2014-02-02 13:14 even today, the bigger problem is the ethics board, not the technicalities 2014-02-02 13:29 anyone knows http://www.openscad.org/ ? 2014-02-02 13:32 hm, pcercuei already gone again 2014-02-02 13:37 Powermaniac has quit [Quit: Leaving] 2014-02-02 13:46 pcercuei has joined #qi-hardware 2014-02-02 13:51 pcercuei has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 2014-02-02 13:57 pcercuei has joined #qi-hardware 2014-02-02 14:14 paul_boddie has joined #qi-hardware 2014-02-02 14:14 lekernel: The site (openscad.org) or the tool (OpenSCAD)? The latter I know a little bit. 2014-02-02 14:15 the tool 2014-02-02 14:16 how good is it? 2014-02-02 14:16 Well, that's a rather open question! 2014-02-02 14:16 You probably want to know if it produces usable results, right? 2014-02-02 14:17 And whether I don't hate it just by having to use it, perhaps. 2014-02-02 14:17 If you prefer working with code to trying to aim at pixels with the mouse, it's better than other things, certainly. 2014-02-02 14:17 pcercuei has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 2014-02-02 14:18 pcercuei has joined #qi-hardware 2014-02-02 14:18 I'd say it's not noticeably less usable than other CAD tools for Linux, though, at least for my simple applications. 2014-02-02 14:19 I published a design here: http://hgweb.boddie.org.uk/AcornElectron 2014-02-02 14:19 Maybe it can tell you more than I can manage to describe. 2014-02-02 14:20 wej_ has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 2014-02-02 14:20 It's very simple by most CAD people's standards, but given that I hadn't used OpenSCAD before, I think I figured it out. 2014-02-02 14:21 The task of making anything from that model has yet to be attempted, though. 2014-02-02 14:38 Markvilla has joined #qi-hardware 2014-02-02 14:46 a long time ago i did some experiments with it and had problems with coincident faces. basically had to add \epsilon to all the coordinates to make them overlap. not fun. 2014-02-02 14:51 systems based on opencascade don't have that problem 2014-02-02 14:54 Yes, that's a known problem and perhaps the only infuriating thing I can think of. 2014-02-02 14:56 You get told about bad 2-manifolds, or something, and it doesn't tell you where they are! 2014-02-02 14:56 But it's less of a problem than one might think. Maybe they did some fixes. 2014-02-02 14:57 http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/OpenSCAD_User_Manual/STL_Export 2014-02-02 15:10 wej has joined #qi-hardware 2014-02-02 15:20 pcercuei: hi 2014-02-02 15:21 hey 2014-02-02 15:21 I'm in Munich 2014-02-02 15:22 good 2014-02-02 15:22 want to grab a beer or something? 2014-02-02 15:25 sure, why not 2014-02-02 15:26 but we're sunday, is that a problem? 2014-02-02 15:28 kanzure has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 2014-02-02 15:28 kanzure has joined #qi-hardware 2014-02-02 15:28 then they'll serve the good sunday brew :) 2014-02-02 15:36 (( wpwrak: in the next century you start selling cells :))) nah, virus that modifies cell dna the way you want, in only the cells you want, and is easily stoppable and even revertable (your blue skin prediction) 2014-02-02 15:37 ;-P 2014-02-02 15:43 brought to you by Monsanto and TEPCO. Companies you can trust. 2014-02-02 15:48 side effects may include swelling, nausea and death 2014-02-02 15:57 life: side effects include death 2014-02-02 16:06 the final cure :) 2014-02-02 16:17 nice, even a test rig 2014-02-02 16:24 wpwrak: if you see it that way the fear of dying is kind of irrational, cause once you are dead you don't care anymore. One the other hand though if your genes didn't program you to avoid death you probably wouldn't be here in the first place 2014-02-02 16:29 wej has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 2014-02-02 16:32 wej has joined #qi-hardware 2014-02-02 16:36 Markvilla has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 2014-02-02 16:42 in shool the teacher once asked what we think the purpose of life is. What I wanted to say is that purpose of life is life itself, what I said in my attemnt to condense it down to one word was 'reproduction'. 2014-02-02 16:42 he didn't like that answer ;) 2014-02-02 16:51 http://ehsm.eu/ << just announced the first talks 2014-02-02 16:52 rexich has joined #qi-hardware 2014-02-02 16:55 Markvilla has joined #qi-hardware 2014-02-02 17:14 larsc: i can kinda see how all the girls in your class mentally moved some 10 m away from you :) 2014-02-02 17:15 larsc: and no, the fear of dying makes perfect sense. but it also means that you shouldn't be afraid of it. well, not more afraid than of any other end of a universe. 2014-02-02 17:30 qwebirc66674 has joined #qi-hardware 2014-02-02 17:30 qwebirc66674 is now known as rjeffries 2014-02-02 17:32 Is this similar to what wolfspraul was working on before he was abducted by aliens? 2014-02-02 17:32 Yosys is the first step towards a fully open FPGA/ASIC toolchain, and is currently used with vendor place-and-route tools. 2014-02-02 17:32 no 2014-02-02 17:33 it's one or two layers above what wolfgang did 2014-02-02 17:33 pcercuei has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 2014-02-02 17:34 this is synthesis, wolfgang was working on configuring the fpga 2014-02-02 17:35 in the middle of those two is par 2014-02-02 17:35 Do we know is wolspraul is still working in that area? 2014-02-02 17:35 the project is on ice for an undefined amount of time 2014-02-02 17:38 thanks larsc 2014-02-02 17:40 Unrelated: the new RADXA dev board [uses Rock SOC] by Tom Cubie is shipping in small quanties. Early reports are positive. Impressive what one gets for $100. 2014-02-02 17:45 Does it have more than 1GB or will we have to wait for that Opteron A-series thing? 2014-02-02 17:49 2 GB RAM, quad core. Not bad at all 2014-02-02 17:50 http://radxa.com/ 2014-02-02 17:53 a small grace note is it ships with a decent looking plastic case. Also, placment of i/o ports is more sane than a certain high-volume, low-cost ARM board. In other words, i/o is on front and back, NOT all four sides. 2014-02-02 17:59 Presumably still arm32 and not arm64, then. 2014-02-02 18:10 paul_boddie yes, correct. Not sure that matters a lot, but yeah, in another year or so that can be a valid next step. 2014-02-02 18:12 has RTC, that's a nice touch. http://wiki.radxa.com/Rock/FAQ 2014-02-02 18:28 rjeffries has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 2014-02-02 18:29 rexich has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 2014-02-02 18:30 rz2k has joined #qi-hardware 2014-02-02 19:06 Markvilla has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 2014-02-02 19:52 wpwrak has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 2014-02-02 19:58 wej has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 2014-02-02 20:05 wej has joined #qi-hardware 2014-02-02 20:16 wpwrak has joined #qi-hardware 2014-02-02 20:31 Ornoterm1s is now known as Ornotermes 2014-02-02 21:12 wpwrak: any pic of this http://downloads.qi-hardware.com/people/werner/anelok/tmp/ybpgm-0-rig.jpg without the casing ? 2014-02-02 21:12 wpwrak: what solder / station you use ? man your solder is 'clean' and smooth :) 2014-02-02 21:16 not much else to see on the pcb ;-) it's completely passive, just traces and pogo pins 2014-02-02 21:18 Markvilla has joined #qi-hardware 2014-02-02 21:18 well, and two spots where i over-etched and had to patch the traces :) the acid didn't want to work today. took forever to remove the large open spaces ... and attacked the traces while slooowly etching away at these areas 2014-02-02 21:21 rexich has joined #qi-hardware 2014-02-02 21:34 wolfspraul has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 2014-02-02 21:34 just used a lot of flux. now mainly the one from chipquik. 2014-02-02 21:35 (the ones i used before is no longer available so i have to transition soon to something else) 2014-02-02 21:36 wolfspraul has joined #qi-hardware 2014-02-02 21:36 nicksydney: pictures of just the pcb: http://downloads.qi-hardware.com/people/werner/anelok/tmp/ybpgm-0-pcb-angle.jpg and http://downloads.qi-hardware.com/people/werner/anelok/tmp/ybpgm-0-pcb-top.jpg 2014-02-02 21:36 the nasty-looking contaminations are non-conductive. i used a bit of solder paste for the pogo pins and that leaves such residues. 2014-02-02 21:37 the "vias" are in this case wires running at the bottom. didn't feel like doing the full two-sided process for just two traces 2014-02-02 21:39 the black "scorch marks" in the middle are toner residues. would probably need some very nasty solvent to remove these. (i use paint remover for the toner) 2014-02-02 21:40 wpwrak: acetone removes toner easily 2014-02-02 21:40 wpwrak: thanks ...the black smudge ( http://downloads.qi-hardware.com/people/werner/anelok/tmp/ybpgm-0-pcb-top.jpg ) is that because of the toner ? i have the same problem after applying acetone lots of black smudge 2014-02-02 21:40 paint remover sounds like acetone, or maybe a shitty version of acetone. get a non-shitty one ;) 2014-02-02 21:41 wpwrak: didn't read your reply :)...yes i have the same residue problem with my toner too 2014-02-02 21:41 interesting. so it seems to be dependent on the kind of toner. my toner was easily removed completely. 2014-02-02 21:42 your non-copper board colour is different than mine...mine is like orangy-brownish kind of colour 2014-02-02 21:42 yours like yellowish kind of colour 2014-02-02 21:42 wpwrak: by the way, why don't you mill your PCBs? 2014-02-02 21:42 whitequark: it does remove the toner. but it also seems to help it get a little into the FR4. i've enhanced the contrast in the images so it looks a little worse than in real life. 2014-02-02 21:43 (toner removal) I usually left most of the copper on the PCB to spare etchant, so maybe that's why I didn't notice the smudge 2014-02-02 21:43 whitequark: i have tried 3 different kind of acetone that i bought from pharmacy and none really helped to clean the toner smudge completely 2014-02-02 21:43 sounds quite likely 2014-02-02 21:43 nicksydney: from pharmacy? is it pure acetone? 2014-02-02 21:43 or something like nail polish remover? 2014-02-02 21:47 nail polish remover i should say 2014-02-02 21:50 (mill) insufficient Z precision: http://people.openmoko.org/werner/cnc/pcb-1st/ 2014-02-02 21:52 (pcb color) pcbs can have all kinds of colors. this one is quite yellowish. i also have some unclad pcb that's basically white. i used that for the front cover of http://downloads.qi-hardware.com/people/werner/labsw/web/ 2014-02-02 21:53 wpwrak: (mill) wow, your one sucks. 2014-02-02 21:53 ;-) 2014-02-02 21:53 0.2mm/s?! 2014-02-02 21:54 that's not for the mill but for the piece 2014-02-02 21:54 s/piece/bit/ 2014-02-02 21:54 wpwrak meant: "that's not for the mill but for the bit" 2014-02-02 21:54 hrm. I fed it at 250mm/min = 4mm/s 2014-02-02 21:54 ah, the bit 2014-02-02 21:55 0.3 mm, and for the last one i used 0.5 mm/s 2014-02-02 21:55 g-wizard's feed and speed calculation suggests about 200mm/min for the 0.2mm endmill. we'll figure out soon whether that will break it 2014-02-02 21:56 3 mm/s ? i see dead endmills ;-) 2014-02-02 21:56 I'm going to be using a TiAlN carbide endmill with 0.2mm dia and 0.4mm stickout 2014-02-02 21:56 perhaps the very low stickout contributes to the high feedrate calculated 2014-02-02 21:57 actually, wait, I think it's not the right term 2014-02-02 21:57 http://et-rus.ru/d/81169/d/534106803_6.jpg 2014-02-02 21:58 d=0.2 l=0.4 D=3 L=50 2014-02-02 21:58 rexich has left #qi-hardware ["Leaving"] 2014-02-02 21:58 so it really doesn't get a lot of opportunities for breakage 2014-02-02 21:59 famous last words :) 2014-02-02 22:00 hehe 2014-02-02 22:01 I've also been assuming I can take out just the copper, making a cut 0.04mm deep 2014-02-02 22:01 well, 0.05mm. it is theoretically within the machine's repeat positioning accuracy. 2014-02-02 22:04 the highest possible resolution based on stepper and ballscrew parameters seems to be 0.0025-0.00125mm, but I guess it's not very reliable 2014-02-02 22:06 paul_boddie has quit [] 2014-02-02 22:06 how deep (nominally) did you mill ? 2014-02-02 22:07 this time? 0.2mm deep 2014-02-02 22:07 lemme take a picture 2014-02-02 22:08 ah, that may explain why you succeeded. 0.2 mm gives you a lot of reserve. 2014-02-02 22:08 of course, with boards going as thin as 0.4 mm, hrmm ... 2014-02-02 22:12 http://i.imgur.com/k7oQbp9.jpg 2014-02-02 22:13 yeah, quite deep. soldering may get a little inconvenient with those "deep valleys" 2014-02-02 22:14 you also seem to have a fair amount of burr. maybe that's because of the speed. or maybe a 2nd pass would help. 2014-02-02 22:14 hm, burr? 2014-02-02 22:15 the copper that got folded up onto the trace 2014-02-02 22:15 there's none 2014-02-02 22:15 if you see anythong on the traces (as opposed to linuxcnc letters or sides of pcb), that's imaging artifacts 2014-02-02 22:17 hmm. those white edges then aren't copper that was moved upward ? 2014-02-02 22:18 e.g., the 3rd (center) large elliptical pad seems to have a lot of it 2014-02-02 22:18 and the trace right of it, too (on its left edge) 2014-02-02 22:20 oh, yes, I see. it looks like a bevel. but it's deception. the actual surface is perfectly flat. 2014-02-02 22:20 lemme try to take a better picture. 2014-02-02 22:23 http://imgur.com/a/DYKnK 2014-02-02 22:23 I really need to stop taking these on a webcam. 2014-02-02 22:24 ah yes, aggressive compression / contrast "enhancement" i guess 2014-02-02 22:26 it actually takes great pictures for a webcam, even HD and very nice colors 2014-02-02 22:26 but compared to a proper camera... just no 2014-02-02 22:30 yeah. you couldn't tell just from the picture that it's a webcam 2014-02-02 22:37 :) 2014-02-02 23:20 lekernel has quit [Quit: Leaving] 2014-02-02 23:34 freespace has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 2014-02-02 23:39 freespace has joined #qi-hardware