2014-01-28 00:00 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X10_(industry_standard)#Radio_protocol 2014-01-28 00:00 that's pretty much what i have, too. and 250 g will last you one or two lifetimes ;-) 2014-01-28 00:00 wpwrak: really ? was expecting you'd say no :) 2014-01-28 00:00 great 2014-01-28 00:01 I'd use stannol 2014-01-28 00:01 DocScrutinizer05: only found 60/40 at stannol :-( 2014-01-28 00:01 no compromises with solder wire 2014-01-28 00:02 diameter is 0.7 mm, which is the biggest you'll want. it seems to include flux. it seems to be designed for electronics. (not all kind of soldering is for that, and you don't want some of the more aggressive kinds of flux.) and it's 63/37. 2014-01-28 00:02 wpwrak: let's see if I can find flux now. powder or paste ? 2014-01-28 00:03 wpwrak: for flux then, better choose powder or paste ? 2014-01-28 00:03 "marker pen" is convenient. else "ballpoint pen". else syringe. 2014-01-28 00:03 http://www.stannol.de/en/products/solder-wires/ 2014-01-28 00:04 http://wstaw.org/m/2014/01/28/plasma-desktopuM3389.png 2014-01-28 00:04 DocScrutinizer05 only trusts "made in germany" ;-) 2014-01-28 00:05 it's weird that they wouldn't have 63/37 2014-01-28 00:05 hmm 2014-01-28 00:06 maybe Sn62Pb35Ag2 is supposed to be a substitute 2014-01-28 00:07 yes 2014-01-28 00:07 pretty nice stuff 2014-01-28 00:07 http://www.stannol.de/en/products/solder-wires/?tx_produktselektor_filter%5Baa_prod%5D=HF32-SMD&tx_produktselektor_filter%5Baction%5D=show&tx_produktselektor_filter%5Bcontroller%5D=Product&cHash=24a7ee35aa8c79ab5af204dbd257cf8d 2014-01-28 00:07 just searched for it 2014-01-28 00:08 yeah, wikipedia says it's equivalent, and better for anything containing silver 2014-01-28 00:08 and halogen free no-clean flux 2014-01-28 00:09 and works great 2014-01-28 00:09 and the wire is nicely thin 2014-01-28 00:10 apelete: do this one would be an option, too. even a little better than the basic 63/37 2014-01-28 00:12 downside: only 250g available 2014-01-28 00:14 sidenote: seems all stannol pb solders have red plastic spindle, all RoHS solder wires have green spindle 2014-01-28 00:14 you usually don't want to go for RoHS 2014-01-28 00:14 unless industrial 2014-01-28 00:15 though, rework on RoHS pb-free PCBs may get a tad nasty with SnPb 2014-01-28 00:16 not relevant for apelete though 2014-01-28 00:16 wpwrak: which one are you speaking of ? 2014-01-28 00:16 apelete: the one joerg pointed out, http://www.stannol.de/en/products/solder-wires/?tx_produktselektor_filter%5Baa_prod%5D=HF32-SMD&tx_produktselektor_filter%5Baction%5D=show&tx_produktselektor_filter%5Bcontroller%5D=Product&cHash=24a7ee35aa8c79ab5af204dbd257cf8d 2014-01-28 00:16 the Sn62Pb35ag2 has a melting temperature of only 179°C 2014-01-28 00:17 Sn62Pb36Ag2 2014-01-28 00:17 okay, thanks 2014-01-28 00:17 DocScrutinizer05: 250 g is plenty :) 2014-01-28 00:17 yeah, WAAAY too much 2014-01-28 00:17 indeed ;-) 2014-01-28 00:17 and, prolly thanks to Ag, not exactly cheap 2014-01-28 00:18 21.30 EUR. not too bad. http://www.pkelektronik.com/stannol-loetdraht-hf32-smd-sn62pb36ag2-0-5-mm-1-0-250-g.html 2014-01-28 00:19 :nod: 2014-01-28 00:20 * DocScrutinizer05 idly wonders how many solder (in gramm) I used for the 1600 thruhole PCB of my Nascom-I computer 2014-01-28 00:20 I'm rather sure, no 50g 2014-01-28 00:22 much less i'd say. i have maybe 150-200 g on my 250 g roll of 64/37 and i've been using that for everything i've done in the last 10 years 2014-01-28 00:23 of course, TH uses more than SMT and i had only relatively few TH parts, but still 2014-01-28 00:25 http://www.ersa.com/media/pdf/fachartikel/fachartikel_englisch/improving_hand_soldering_operational_costs_and_process_control_2.pdf 2014-01-28 00:25 doesn't answer my question, but a relatively nice read nevertheless 2014-01-28 00:40 it's amazingly hard to find *any* info on that in aunt google 2014-01-28 00:40 only about copper tubbing 2014-01-28 00:41 anyway RoHS is a joke, for DIY 2014-01-28 00:42 a hunter spreads more Pb to the environment in one night than an electronics nerd in his whole life 2014-01-28 00:43 but heh, EU is crazy, we know for sure since Energy Saving CF Lamps 2014-01-28 00:43 eventually they will come up with a procedure how to bend banana to the correct diameter 2014-01-28 00:45 arielenter has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 2014-01-28 00:45 I doubt environmental advantage of even LED lamps, over incendescant 2014-01-28 00:46 it's already known they spread toxic gas in your home 2014-01-28 00:46 not Hg, but all other sorts of shit used in plastic and dunno what 2014-01-28 00:47 and they have EMI field thet often even exceeds what EU allows for workplace 2014-01-28 00:47 X-P 2014-01-28 00:48 while total electric energy savings are zilch. when you heat with electricity anyway 2014-01-28 00:49 what you save in summer when your own heating doesn't have to burn the amount yiu save on the lamp, you find wasted in fab during production of those lamps 2014-01-28 00:52 reminds me to finally calculate and get the needed stash of incandescant lamps for next 40 years 2014-01-28 00:53 (banana bending) this will be the ultimate success :) 2014-01-28 00:54 (solder) I *seem* to recall I once used Weller solder wire that also been quite good 2014-01-28 00:55 or at least the plastic looked as blue as Weller does 2014-01-28 00:55 (CF rant) yeah, we have the same madness here. well, so far none of them has failed. but then, since i know that they don't like cycling, i keep the important ones on all night. it may still save energy ;-) 2014-01-28 00:55 hardly 2014-01-28 00:56 i don't think you need to get too picky with the solder wire. if the alloy is the right formula and they put a halfway decent flux, there's not much else that can go wrong. 2014-01-28 00:56 recent test shown the 8W use 15W actually, and are not as bright as they are supposed to. So it's more than questionable how much saving they actually earn you 2014-01-28 00:56 heh :) more lies then 2014-01-28 00:57 the flux is muy importante 2014-01-28 00:57 wolfspraul has joined #qi-hardware 2014-01-28 00:57 and I found the 2% Ag do wonders 2014-01-28 00:57 i think most of the flux in the solder evaporates when doing SMT 2014-01-28 00:57 sure, for SMT the flux in solder wire is basically irrelevant 2014-01-28 00:58 you're supposed to use decent no-clean flux pen anyway 2014-01-28 00:58 wolfspra1l has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 2014-01-28 00:58 i solder like this: put flux on the target area, place component, put a drop of solder on the iron, hold down the component, then solder. so the solder stays on the iron for a bit of time, giving the flux time to disappear 2014-01-28 00:58 yup 2014-01-28 00:59 btw only "poor" flux evaporates that fast 2014-01-28 00:59 leaving nasty brown blobs 2014-01-28 01:00 you can tell about quality of your solder from looking at your iron tip 2014-01-28 01:02 yeah, mine's so-so. not super clean but not too evil either. 2014-01-28 01:02 I hardly ever need to clean the tip (you know, the wet sponge touchdown procedure) 2014-01-28 01:03 usual resin flux solder wire is a mess 2014-01-28 01:03 DocScrutinizer05 wpwrak: does this look like a good flux pen to you ? 2014-01-28 01:03 http://www.pkelektronik.com/circuitworks-kolophonium-flussmittelstift-cw-8200-9-g.html 2014-01-28 01:04 and some suspicious noname stuff is mere sabotage 2014-01-28 01:04 i use a copper "sponge". no need to water the beast :) 2014-01-28 01:04 kolophonium, nope 2014-01-28 01:04 Kolo is exactly the resin I just ranted about 2014-01-28 01:05 "Er trägt ein patentiertes korrosionsfreies, halogenfreies organisches No-Clean Flußmittel der Sorte R auf. Das Flussmittel enspricht der Norm MIL-F-14256 E+F Sorte R und RMA." eh ? 2014-01-28 01:05 haha :) 2014-01-28 01:05 "no clean" and RMA don't quite resonate :) 2014-01-28 01:09 get F-SW33 or F-Sw34, better the latter 2014-01-28 01:09 http://www.conrad.de/ce/de/product/828718/Edsyn-No-clean-Flussmittelstift-FL-88-Flussmittel-Typ-F-SW-34-Inhalt-10-ml?queryFromSuggest=true 2014-01-28 01:10 stay away from all F-SW1x and F-SW2x. Avoid F-SW31/32 Rosin flux if possible 2014-01-28 01:11 was looking at some stannol flux pen, but I'll go with F-Sw34 since you advise so 2014-01-28 01:11 thanks :) 2014-01-28 01:12 stannol also has same type of flux pens 2014-01-28 01:13 http://www.conrad.de/ce/de/product/812062/Stannol-No-clean-Flussmittelstift-830322-Flussmittel-Typ-F-SW-33-Inhalt-10-ml/?ref=detview1&rt=detview1&rb=2 2014-01-28 01:14 you need to test if SW33 or SW34 works better for you 2014-01-28 01:14 wej has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 2014-01-28 01:16 basically all that still doesn't really tell all the truth about Flux. You should get a non-activated no-clean no-rosin flux. but it still needs explicit classification "for SMT2 by manufaturer 2014-01-28 01:17 s/2/"/ 2014-01-28 01:17 DocScrutinizer05 meant: "basically all that still doesn't really tell all the truth about Flux. You should get a non-activated no-clean no-rosin flux. but it still needs explicit classification "for SMT" by manufaturer" 2014-01-28 01:18 you even might find mildly activated flux that still is suited for SMT 2014-01-28 01:19 but that's usually no no-clean then, since any activation is generally corrosive 2014-01-28 01:24 dos1 has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 2014-01-28 01:25 wej has joined #qi-hardware 2014-01-28 01:30 arielenter has joined #qi-hardware 2014-01-28 01:32 arielenter has quit [Client Quit] 2014-01-28 01:32 arielenter has joined #qi-hardware 2014-01-28 01:32 buying/finding the right flux is an art. See http://www.conrad.de/ce/de/product/588431/Stannol-Flussmittelstift-Fine-Fluxer-3000-830335-Inhalt-8-ml/?ref=detview1&rt=detview1&rb=1 vs http://www.conrad.de/ce/de/product/588408/Stannol-Flussmittelstift-Fine-Fluxer-350-830333-Inhalt-8-ml/?ref=detview1&rt=detview1&rb=1 2014-01-28 01:33 nfc what's the difference, except for the price 2014-01-28 01:34 arielenter has quit [Client Quit] 2014-01-28 01:34 arielenter1 has joined #qi-hardware 2014-01-28 01:38 haha :) 2014-01-28 01:38 and while finding a particular solder is like finding a certain kind of flour, you just need to specify the type and grinding and no much other differences between flours, finding a good flux is like finding a tasty cheese since you simply can't go by the composition or other descriptions of physical properties 2014-01-28 01:40 I see. for now I went with the Stannol Sn62Pb36Ag2 HF32 SMD solder and Stannol F-SW33 flux pen 2014-01-28 01:40 will work 2014-01-28 01:40 :-) 2014-01-28 01:41 will see how the flux pen turns out, and try F-SW34 another time 2014-01-28 01:41 thanks for everything :-) 2014-01-28 01:41 yw :-) 2014-01-28 01:41 arielenter1 has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 2014-01-28 01:43 actually it feels good to help somebody 2014-01-28 01:43 arielenter has joined #qi-hardware 2014-01-28 01:54 wpwrak: when you want to make sure "the internet" works while I'm away, would you please keep an eye on ht-tp://monitor.maemo.org/ganglia and may I forward mails like "** PROBLEM Service Alert: firewall-b.maemo.org/SSH is CRITICAL **" to you? 2014-01-28 01:55 nevermind - "** RECOVERY Service Alert: firewall-b.maemo.org/SSH is OK **" 2014-01-28 02:01 pcercuei has quit [Quit: bye bye] 2014-01-28 02:14 arielenter has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 2014-01-28 02:14 arielenter1 has joined #qi-hardware 2014-01-28 02:18 arielenter has joined #qi-hardware 2014-01-28 02:19 arielenter1 has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 2014-01-28 02:21 arielenter2 has joined #qi-hardware 2014-01-28 02:21 arielenter has quit [Read error: No route to host] 2014-01-28 02:24 arielenter2 has quit [Client Quit] 2014-01-28 02:25 arielenter has joined #qi-hardware 2014-01-28 02:38 arielenter has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 2014-01-28 02:38 arielenter1 has joined #qi-hardware 2014-01-28 02:43 arielenter1 has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 2014-01-28 02:45 ;-) 2014-01-28 02:48 apelete: you could try to get a range of flux pens, e.g., one "no clean", one RMA, one "water-soluble" or (if you can't find one) maybe another "no clean" with a different formula 2014-01-28 02:48 chances are that you'll not use the RMA much. but it'll give you a feeling for how a "strong" flux works. 2014-01-28 02:50 arielenter has joined #qi-hardware 2014-01-28 02:50 oh, and if you're not over budget yet, consider getting a cheap ultrasonic cleaner. try to minimize power / volume, i.e., lowest power you can get. 2014-01-28 02:51 ultrasonic cleaning is great for getting rid of flux. you can just use demineralized water for that, the sort you can find in car supplies. low power reduces the risk of damaging components. 2014-01-28 02:55 arielenter has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 2014-01-28 03:04 Luke-Jr has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 2014-01-28 03:04 Luke-Jr has joined #qi-hardware 2014-01-28 03:08 michael_lee has joined #qi-hardware 2014-01-28 03:49 only for water soluble flux 2014-01-28 03:50 i think it works for all kinds of flux 2014-01-28 03:51 the "water soluble" isn't all the much about regular water anyway 2014-01-28 03:51 #s/the/that/ 2014-01-28 03:52 if you want, you can of course also use other solvents. e.g., alcohol. would be a shame to waste it for that, though ;) 2014-01-28 03:53 the orthodox way is to use Kontact-WL or similar stuff 2014-01-28 03:54 Kontakt actually 2014-01-28 03:54 alcohol may work too 2014-01-28 04:00 michael_lee has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 2014-01-28 04:03 oh sure, there are more efficient solvents. but you don't really need them with an ultrasonic cleaner. it's the ultrasound that does most of the work, not the solvent. 2014-01-28 04:04 and things like demineralized water have the additional benefit that you can get them anywhere ;-) 2014-01-28 04:05 when you get a chance to set up a proper lab, you may also want to get an ultrasonic cleaner. it's also very useful when you get something and find that its pcb is full of ugly flux residues :) 2014-01-28 04:05 michael_lee has joined #qi-hardware 2014-01-28 04:19 michael_lee has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 2014-01-28 04:20 michael_lee has joined #qi-hardware 2014-01-28 06:13 wej has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 2014-01-28 06:24 nicksydney has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 2014-01-28 06:25 nicksydney has joined #qi-hardware 2014-01-28 07:27 wpwrak: ping 2014-01-28 07:45 jekhor has joined #qi-hardware 2014-01-28 07:48 wej has joined #qi-hardware 2014-01-28 08:15 qi-bot has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 2014-01-28 08:16 kyak has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 2014-01-28 08:20 qi-bot has joined #qi-hardware 2014-01-28 08:48 lekernel has joined #qi-hardware 2014-01-28 09:02 xiangfu has joined #qi-hardware 2014-01-28 09:04 qi-bot has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 2014-01-28 09:05 qi-bot has joined #qi-hardware 2014-01-28 09:14 FDCX has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 2014-01-28 09:29 FDCX has joined #qi-hardware 2014-01-28 09:32 roh: which cam do you use? 2014-01-28 09:32 I've tried pycam and not only it wants to work for hours (who the fuck writes a cam in python), but it also generates horrendous toolpaths 2014-01-28 09:33 opencam is a joke, heekscam is what I'm currently building, and... that's all we've got? 2014-01-28 09:33 foss for 3d 2014-01-28 09:35 kyak has joined #qi-hardware 2014-01-28 09:35 kyak has quit [Changing host] 2014-01-28 09:35 kyak has joined #qi-hardware 2014-01-28 09:37 heekscam may be a scam 2014-01-28 09:37 he he he 2014-01-28 09:41 valhalla_ has joined #qi-hardware 2014-01-28 09:43 valhalla has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 2014-01-28 09:43 valhalla_ is now known as valhalla 2014-01-28 10:03 jekhor has quit [Quit: Leaving] 2014-01-28 10:06 okay, heekscnc generates quite decent toolpaths 2014-01-28 10:06 but it is beyond painful to use 2014-01-28 10:07 jekhor has joined #qi-hardware 2014-01-28 10:08 fortunately the design of heekscnc (heekscad generates a python script with geometry and tools, python script calls a C lib which generates toolpaths, then outputs customized gcode) makes it vary easy to decouple it from heekscnc 2014-01-28 10:27 whitequark: pong 2014-01-28 10:28 wpwrak: so I was looking for endmills and somesuch 2014-01-28 10:29 first I think I'll get this collet set: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00G9X6TWA/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=A388EF2JRGUUQ3 2014-01-28 10:29 my current one only accepts 3mm aka 1/8" shanks 2014-01-28 10:30 3 mm isn't 1/8 in. you'd be off-center almost 0.1 mm. that can't be good 2014-01-28 10:31 1/8" is 3.175mm precisely 2014-01-28 10:31 yes. so 0.175 / 2 mm off-center if yours is 3.000 mm 2014-01-28 10:32 and if I'm reading it right, the bits I currently have are ~3.2mm in diameter 2014-01-28 10:32 (probably just 3.175) 2014-01-28 10:32 i can't make sense of the "spring collet set". how would you mount it ? how do they grip the bit ? 2014-01-28 10:32 oh, such a collet is inserted inside a collet nut (er11) 2014-01-28 10:32 then it's screwed on the motor shaft 2014-01-28 10:32 ah, so your 3 mm are really 1/8 in. okay ;-) 2014-01-28 10:33 and the collet grips the bit as the result 2014-01-28 10:33 okay. so. I think I'll get these endmills for pcb milling: http://www.amazon.com/Carbide-Endmill-0-2mm-Ideal-Engineering-Electronics/dp/B008RE2VJ4/ref=pd_cp_hi_1 2014-01-28 10:33 0.2mm is about 8 mil, should be good enough 2014-01-28 10:34 and I doubt thinner ones will survive 2014-01-28 10:34 (collet nut) okay. and how do you mount that one on the mill ? 2014-01-28 10:35 well, the collet nut with a collet inside is screwed on a threaded cylinder, thus gripping the collet and bit 2014-01-28 10:35 10 pieces for only USD 14.99 ? wow 2014-01-28 10:35 and that cylinder has a hole on the other side via which it is affixed to the shaft 2014-01-28 10:36 does that make sense? 2014-01-28 10:36 (threaded cylinder) okay, so you need one that matches. doesn't seem to be part of the set, isn't it ? 2014-01-28 10:36 it's already on my CNC 2014-01-28 10:36 that set of collets looks exactly like the collet I already have, except the CNC only came with one 2014-01-28 10:36 and the collet nut too 2014-01-28 10:36 http://www.jinlantrade.com/ebay/3020t/img13.jpg 2014-01-28 10:37 ah, i see. pity they don't specify the inner diameter then 2014-01-28 10:37 but maybe it's a standard 2014-01-28 10:37 wej_ has joined #qi-hardware 2014-01-28 10:37 okay, sounds good 2014-01-28 10:37 wej has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 2014-01-28 10:37 well, the fact that the collet grips the bit allows for some leeway 2014-01-28 10:37 I'm pretty sure it would grip 3.00mm bits just file 2014-01-28 10:37 *fine 2014-01-28 10:38 the collet is rather flexible 2014-01-28 10:38 no, i mean the other side, where the threaded cylinder enters. not sure if there's one nice standard for that 2014-01-28 10:38 ah 2014-01-28 10:38 http://ugracnc.com/ER-COLLETS/ER11-Clamping-Nut.html 2014-01-28 10:38 it's apparently a kind of M14 nut 2014-01-28 10:39 (0.2 mm endmill) they'll break very easily. but if you want to experiment with direct pcb milling, then that looks like a great set 2014-01-28 10:39 for actually cutting a pcb and other excavation work, you'd want larger endmills. about 0.8-1 2014-01-28 10:40 yes, that's for milling of copper 2014-01-28 10:40 .0 mm is a good size range. they can go reasonably deep (some 3 mm), don't break easily, and still give you a lot of detail 2014-01-28 10:40 was thinking about these ones: http://www.amazon.com/Carbide-PCB-Mill-Endmill-1-0mm/dp/B008JPCG28/ref=pd_sim_hg_1 2014-01-28 10:41 you'll also want larger sizes, at least one full-size 1/8 in. it's unbreakable and very suitable for bigger objects 2014-01-28 10:42 oh, there's one with the CNC: http://www.amazon.com/Steelex-D2699-8-Inch-2-Flute-Carbide/dp/B001UE7IVO/ref=sr_1_8?s=hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1390905713&sr=1-8&keywords=endmill 2014-01-28 10:43 interesting, the 1.0 mm are USD 13.88 each. i bet the 0.2 mm have the unit price, too. i've never seen endmills at USD 1.4 2014-01-28 10:44 appears to be @10pcs 2014-01-28 10:44 okay, that also solves the mystery what you used for your engraving experiment :) 2014-01-28 10:44 you think I should buy 20? :) 2014-01-28 10:44 (engraving experiment) no, the CNC also had 5 engraving bits with it 2014-01-28 10:44 at that price ? certainly. but i doubt it's for 10 units :) 2014-01-28 10:45 oh wow. the bits must be worth more than what you paid. no surprise they had nothing left for a decent transformer ;-) 2014-01-28 10:46 ok. so, then drill bits: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00569X3JU/ref=ox_sc_act_title_2?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=A3CXZ32ML2H79F 2014-01-28 10:47 again at a ridiculously low price 2014-01-28 10:47 you may also want to get an endmill in the 0.8 mm range. there are a lot of small mounting holes or slots of about that size. 1.0 mm would already be quite large for such things 2014-01-28 10:47 hm 2014-01-28 10:47 HSS, that explains the price 2014-01-28 10:48 HSS is bad? 2014-01-28 10:48 huh, this carbide one: http://www.amazon.com/Carbide-End-Mill-0-8-Cut/dp/B007SUEI1C is at $41 2014-01-28 10:49 the endmill is expensive because it has a weird head ;-) 2014-01-28 10:49 oh 2014-01-28 10:49 HSS is okay for drills. they don't suffer nearly as much wear and endmills. 2014-01-28 10:49 #s/and/as/ 2014-01-28 10:51 does all that stuff ship from amazon ? or from 3rd parties ? 2014-01-28 10:51 i didn't realize amazon had this sort of things. it's an amazing collection 2014-01-28 10:51 3rd parties, but some from amazon warehouses 2014-01-28 10:51 amazon has a lot of surprising items at surprising price 2014-01-28 10:52 it's espeically good if you use a remailer in USA. free shipping in 1-2 days 2014-01-28 10:52 jow_lapt1p is now known as jow_laptop 2014-01-28 10:53 ok, amazon doesn't have any endmills under 1.0mm cheap 2014-01-28 10:53 starts at $20/1pcs 2014-01-28 10:54 amazon warehouses sounds great. that way it's just one shipment. 2014-01-28 10:54 yep! 2014-01-28 10:54 ok, there's a set: http://www.amazon.com/0-6-1-5mm-Tungsten-Carbide-Milling-Machine/dp/B00GEC9X10/ref=sr_1_9?s=hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1390905827&sr=1-9&keywords=1mm+endmill 2014-01-28 10:56 aaah, THAT explains it ! "Please note,These bits are Very Sharp and lightly used and Each Piece has Been Cleaned ." 2014-01-28 10:57 hm? 2014-01-28 10:57 they're refurbished, not new 2014-01-28 10:57 oh 2014-01-28 10:58 how bad is that? 2014-01-28 10:58 dunno. try it. at that price, you can't go wrong ;-) 2014-01-28 10:59 * whitequark looks at the cart containing $150 of bits 2014-01-28 10:59 well, I guess it's ok, considering the amount I get 2014-01-28 10:59 80 bits by the cost of 12 or something 2014-01-28 11:00 the more worn a bit is, the more burr you get and the more unwanted forces it applies to the piece. before i broke my 0.8 mm endmill, it had produced considerable burr (it's been in use for a good while, mainly cutting pcbs, which are nasty) 2014-01-28 11:00 then the new one cut a pcb without any burr. perfectly clean. that's when you notice just how long overdue the previous one way ;-) 2014-01-28 11:01 ah 2014-01-28 11:01 btw, the 1.0mm endmill description mentioned it can be used for _drilling_ pcbs 2014-01-28 11:01 does that make any sense? 2014-01-28 11:02 the endmill set may be a bit fragile. normally, the length of the cutting part is a function of the diameter. if it gets very long and thin, it'll break more easily. but okay, you can always compensate by going very slowly 2014-01-28 11:02 endmills work great as drills, too 2014-01-28 11:03 0.2mm holes... vias! 2014-01-28 11:03 that's very thin even for that :) 2014-01-28 11:03 well, a bit 2014-01-28 11:03 while we're at it, how do you fix the pcb onto the table? 2014-01-28 11:03 i use 13.5 mil holes, 0.35 mm. 2014-01-28 11:04 i don't 2014-01-28 11:04 oh? 2014-01-28 11:04 ah, you mean when milling, sorry :) 2014-01-28 11:04 my mind had wandered to soldering ;-) 2014-01-28 11:05 wait, i'll get me some coke. this is no condition to be in ... 2014-01-28 11:08 okay, that's where our ways part. i use double-sided tape. you can do that too, but you have better ways since you can use screw-down fixtures 2014-01-28 11:08 i don't know too much about them but roh probably does 2014-01-28 11:08 double-sided tape I have, yes 2014-01-28 11:08 the cnc machine has some parts with it which *seem* to be kind of a screw-down fixture 2014-01-28 11:09 excellent 2014-01-28 11:09 but the nuts are slightly, about 0.2mm bigger, than the slits on the table 2014-01-28 11:09 the slits should be tiangular. maybe they only fit if inserted from the side ? 2014-01-28 11:09 triangular? 2014-01-28 11:10 well, I thought you slide in the nut from the side to the position you need, and then screw the plate with a bolt or something 2014-01-28 11:10 or maybe even rectangular. wider inside than at the top 2014-01-28 11:10 yes 2014-01-28 11:11 ah, and you want some reasonably level wood. or maybe some FR2 board you don't like. they make great victim material. 2014-01-28 11:11 http://www.jinlantrade.com/ebay/3020t/img14.jpg 2014-01-28 11:11 ah yes, perfect 2014-01-28 11:11 and http://www.jinlantrade.com/ebay/3020t/img21.jpg 2014-01-28 11:12 the nuts are slightly bigger horizontally than the slits 2014-01-28 11:12 the bolt heads are slightly bigger vertically than the slits 2014-01-28 11:12 so, yeah, there's nothing I can insert there :D 2014-01-28 11:12 and there is no manual, of course 2014-01-28 11:12 ah well, find smaller nuts then :) 2014-01-28 11:12 rz2k has joined #qi-hardware 2014-01-28 11:13 smaller bolts maybe? the bolt would be too long to completely go into the nut 2014-01-28 11:13 compare bolt length and slit depth 2014-01-28 11:14 kyak has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 2014-01-28 11:16 they have to go through the rectangular piece as well 2014-01-28 11:16 yeah, but they're still 2x longer than needed 2014-01-28 11:17 the stack should be: nut, table, workpiece, rectangular piece, head of screw 2014-01-28 11:17 oh, or maybe it the other way around 2014-01-28 11:17 does the head of the screw fit into the grooves ? 2014-01-28 11:17 nope! 2014-01-28 11:17 damn :) 2014-01-28 11:18 about 0.2mm higher than the groove 2014-01-28 11:18 it really looks like they've simply screwed up with tolerances 2014-01-28 11:18 what do people in the fora say ? same problem ? 2014-01-28 11:18 or maybe just bought the wrong parts ;-) 2014-01-28 11:19 can't google anything useful 2014-01-28 11:20 maybe ask in the forum where you found that other guy's report about the flaming transformer ? 2014-01-28 11:21 mmm, easier to find the right screws :) 2014-01-28 11:21 it's not like there is a shortage 2014-01-28 11:21 bolts* 2014-01-28 11:28 rz2k has quit [] 2014-01-28 11:28 wpwrak: to clean flux on a pcb you actually put the pcb in the ultrasonic cleaner *with* demineralized water in it ? 2014-01-28 11:32 yup 2014-01-28 11:33 the water carries the sound waves. and works a little bit as solvent, too 2014-01-28 11:36 wpwrak: http://dmitry.gr/index.php?r=05.Projects&proj=11.%20Bluetooth%20LE%20fakery 2014-01-28 11:43 nicksydney: very very old news ;-) 2014-01-28 11:43 wpwrak: ahhh...ok :) 2014-01-28 11:43 nicksydney: i even mentioned it in one of my posts. twice, i think ;-) 2014-01-28 11:53 viric has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 2014-01-28 11:54 viric has joined #qi-hardware 2014-01-28 12:21 kyak has joined #qi-hardware 2014-01-28 12:21 kyak has joined #qi-hardware 2014-01-28 12:21 kyak has quit [Changing host] 2014-01-28 12:28 nicksydney has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 2014-01-28 12:29 nicksydney has joined #qi-hardware 2014-01-28 12:32 lekernel has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 2014-01-28 12:36 ha, the second version of 3020 uses a SMPS: http://img02.taobaocdn.com/imgextra/i2/900208505/T2Shq3Xj8bXXXXXXXX_!!900208505.jpg 2014-01-28 12:37 but it would also set me back $1300 so... not economical either way 2014-01-28 12:40 jekhor has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 2014-01-28 12:46 lekernel has joined #qi-hardware 2014-01-28 12:51 porchaso0 has joined #qi-hardware 2014-01-28 12:53 porchao has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 2014-01-28 13:04 CYB3R has joined #qi-hardware 2014-01-28 13:06 Hi all! Anyone here uses UBIBoot or nandboot? 2014-01-28 13:25 wpwrak: I think I found the catch with those cheap bits... Shipping: Standard (17-28 business days) 2014-01-28 13:26 wpwrak: where do you buy your endmills? 2014-01-28 13:28 i got mine from www.pmtnow.com 2014-01-28 13:28 of course, those are in the USD 15 / each price range. all new, though. and they come in nice boxes :) 2014-01-28 13:29 see, I can't find 0.8mm, much less 0.2mm endmills here at all 2014-01-28 13:29 have you fixed the power supply yet ? if not, consider that you'll spend some time waiting for that as well 2014-01-28 13:30 "here" being locally ? 2014-01-28 13:30 yes 2014-01-28 13:30 oh, actually found them, yeah, about $15 each 2014-01-28 13:31 yeah, same here. there's virtually nothing. there's a bunch of jeweler's tools shops so i tried these. all i had at the end of the day was another 1/8 in endmill. a weird piece, something like 4-flute. but works :) i keep it as a backup 2014-01-28 13:32 well yes, USD 15 is the usual price for such things ... 2014-01-28 13:32 bigger ones up to $60 !() 2014-01-28 13:33 the really cheap ones probably work like this: a factory uses new endmills. they have high standards, so as soon as the mills begin to perform less than perfectly, they replace them. but the mills are still good for a lot more use, you just wouldn't get perfect cuts. for PCBs and such, you can tolerate quite a lot of imperfection. e.g., you just scrape off the burr without even thinking much of it. 2014-01-28 13:34 I can see how that would work, yes 2014-01-28 13:34 so they sell their "spent" endmills to a company that cleans and resells them. thus those companies depend on the inflow from factories, which may not be continuous. 2014-01-28 13:35 thus the long lead times. maybe they also don't stock but just build up a big order, then go asking around. 2014-01-28 13:35 another guess: they only ship from HK via ePacket and amazon lists the longest epacket delivery time, that's 17-28 BD 2014-01-28 13:35 in reality ePacket arrives to US for 5-7 days 2014-01-28 13:36 sometimes less 2014-01-28 13:36 ok, we'll see soon enough 2014-01-28 13:36 yeah, just get the stuff. it's so cheap, even if it's an almost total writeoff, you still win ;-) 2014-01-28 13:36 FDCX has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 2014-01-28 13:42 rz2k has joined #qi-hardware 2014-01-28 13:50 wej_ is now known as wej 2014-01-28 13:53 kristian1aul has quit [Quit: Reconnecting] 2014-01-28 13:54 kristianpaul has joined #qi-hardware 2014-01-28 14:16 jekhor has joined #qi-hardware 2014-01-28 14:27 whitequark: seen this kinda sci-fi story yet ? http://www.tor.com/stories/2012/07/a-tall-tail 2014-01-28 14:31 michael_lee has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 2014-01-28 14:38 JCxMLnblFl has joined #qi-hardware 2014-01-28 14:38 JCxMLnblFl has left #qi-hardware [#qi-hardware] 2014-01-28 14:38 hahahaha, hot HF exhaust plume 2014-01-28 14:39 it gets better :) 2014-01-28 14:59 hehe, ClF3 2014-01-28 14:59 didn't we discuss it here already? together with F2O2 2014-01-28 14:59 possibly :) 2014-01-28 15:00 http://pipeline.corante.com/archives/2010/02/23/things_i_wont_work_with_dioxygen_difluoride.php 2014-01-28 15:01 yes yes FOOF spells fun :) 2014-01-28 15:05 (( the stack should be: nut, table, workpiece, rectangular piece, head of screw)) maybe ... no... nevermind, it's strange. anyway the square nuts go to the grooves in table 2014-01-28 15:06 get a decent file, file the nuts to fit 2014-01-28 15:06 says the pragmatist ;-) 2014-01-28 15:06 what about bolts? still too long 2014-01-28 15:07 i guess it's file + long bolt = short bolt 2014-01-28 15:08 I'd consider using washers or similar stuff 2014-01-28 15:08 eventually you'll want long bolts 2014-01-28 15:09 even better. non-destructive :) 2014-01-28 15:09 * wpwrak nods 2014-01-28 15:09 make sure mill head doesn't run into bolts! 2014-01-28 15:10 alternatively use a piece of wood cut to shape and thick enough to lift PCB to the level you need for the bolts to fit 2014-01-28 15:10 also fine for drilling 2014-01-28 15:10 bolt and head will generally survive. the bit was cheap :) 2014-01-28 15:11 with bolts that long and high above table level, you can possibly run the motor into them 2014-01-28 15:12 yep, they surely didn't think the bolts thorough 2014-01-28 15:12 alternatively, get a collection of bolts of different length, 5mm stepping 2014-01-28 15:13 I wondered if each fixture consists of one flat rectangular bit and TWO bolts, but it doesn't make much sense in the end 2014-01-28 15:13 DocScrutinizer05: apparently it does somehow 2014-01-28 15:14 there's nothing else to put bolts into 2014-01-28 15:14 DocScrutinizer05: it does if you cross a corner 2014-01-28 15:14 OOOH! 2014-01-28 15:14 :-) 2014-01-28 15:14 now that makes some sense, indeed 2014-01-28 15:26 DocScrutinizer05: you should perform a reaction of O2F2 with H2S 2014-01-28 15:26 with 1 mole of H2S, the thermodynamic output is equivalent to about 1.5 sticks of TNT 2014-01-28 15:26 ... at 160K 2014-01-28 15:27 ... and the result includes hot HF and SF6 at several Mach 2014-01-28 15:29 wpwrak: oh, that story actually mentions FOOF 2014-01-28 15:36 wait 2014-01-28 15:37 someone *actually* thought dimethylmercury would make a rocket propellant?!! 2014-01-28 15:37 http://pipeline.corante.com/archives/2009/10/23/things_i_wont_work_with_straight_dimethyl_zinc.php#441578 2014-01-28 16:03 pcercuei has joined #qi-hardware 2014-01-28 16:14 wow, nice story 2014-01-28 16:15 yeah 2014-01-28 16:18 as long as you are in the rocket everything is fine ;) 2014-01-28 16:26 nah, one of the nonsense bits, any gamma radiation from the propulsion motor wouldn't be directed like the yet but omnidirectional and this fusing the remaining red mercury in the fuel tanks 2014-01-28 16:27 s/yet/jet/ 2014-01-28 16:27 DocScrutinizer05 meant: "nah, one of the nonsense bits, any gamma radiation from the propulsion motor wouldn't be directed like the jet but omnidirectional and this fusing the remaining red mercury in the fuel tanks" 2014-01-28 16:27 arielenter has joined #qi-hardware 2014-01-28 16:27 s/this/thus/ 2014-01-28 16:27 DocScrutinizer05 meant: "nah, one of the nonsense bits, any gamma radiation from the propulsion motor wouldn't be directed like the jet but omnidirectional and thus fusing the remaining red mercury in the fuel tanks" 2014-01-28 16:28 i wonder if it's theoretically possible to make a jet of gamma radiation 2014-01-28 16:28 say some nuclei have magnetic moments, maybe that can be used to orient them or somesuch 2014-01-28 16:28 just like it's theoretically possible to create a jet/beam of hard x-ray 2014-01-28 16:29 you know how x-ray laser works? 2014-01-28 16:29 lead rod, nukler explosion to pump 2014-01-28 16:34 good I googled before ranting, I thought dimethyl-mercury was used in flu vaccine, but that actually been http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thiomersal 2014-01-28 16:35 which metabolizes to ethyl-mercury, not methyl-mercury 2014-01-28 16:39 x-ray yes 2014-01-28 16:39 but gamma? 2014-01-28 16:39 generally gamma is not in the energy range of electron orbitals but nuclear stuff 2014-01-28 16:39 gammy is hard hard x-ray, no? 2014-01-28 16:39 jekhor has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 2014-01-28 16:39 there is no way a gamma laser is possible, pretty much by definition 2014-01-28 16:40 actually 2014-01-28 16:40 yep, quite possibly correct 2014-01-28 16:40 there is no way a gamma laser would work if you use electron shells 2014-01-28 16:40 but! 2014-01-28 16:40 atomic nuclei can get excited too. 2014-01-28 16:40 is it possible to make a laser out of atomic nuclei? 2014-01-28 16:40 interesting question 2014-01-28 16:41 wow 2014-01-28 16:41 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Induced_gamma_emission 2014-01-28 16:41 apparently this was investigated closely 2014-01-28 16:41 could a gamma photon interact with an atomic nucleus on a quantum level 2014-01-28 16:41 yes 2014-01-28 16:42 "Aircraft power[edit] 2014-01-28 16:42 In February 2003, the non-peer reviewed New Scientist wrote about the possibility of an IGE-powered airplane, a variant on nuclear propulsion.[8] The idea was to utilize 178m2Hf (presumably due to its high energy to weight ratio) which would be triggered to release gamma rays that would heat air in a chamber for jet propulsion." 2014-01-28 16:43 by the way, DocScrutinizer05, directly answering your question: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hafnium_controversy 2014-01-28 16:43 that Hafnium thing (and presumably mercury thing too) is an example of IGE, therefore it will exactly make a jet 2014-01-28 16:44 xiangfu has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 2014-01-28 16:47 IGE alone doesn't create sufficient preconditions for a laser type directed beam of photons 2014-01-28 16:47 actually, if it did, the whole chain rwaction idea was a dream 2014-01-28 16:48 why? 2014-01-28 16:48 since you would need to provide infinite amount of triggering photons due to the secondary photons not seeing any diversity in vector 2014-01-28 16:50 a laser always relies on spontaneous emission of primary photons in random directions, while a set of reflectors makes a certain vector go thru the medium multiple times to amplify 2014-01-28 16:51 except laser boosters 2014-01-28 16:51 right 2014-01-28 16:51 no gamma reflectors 2014-01-28 16:51 that's the point 2014-01-28 16:52 particularly not direction of jet 2014-01-28 16:53 okay, there are gamma ray collimators 2014-01-28 16:53 filtering 2014-01-28 16:53 the whole story is quite nicely featured with real background, but has a few elementary deficiencies 2014-01-28 16:53 perhaps you could provide enough triggering gamma rays created with usual means, and then amplify 2014-01-28 16:54