2014-01-26 00:03 wpwrak: 3mm metric 2014-01-26 00:04 I've measured it with a caliper 2014-01-26 00:04 bbiab 2014-01-26 00:12 kristianpaul has quit [Quit: leaving] 2014-01-26 00:12 kristianpaul has joined #qi-hardware 2014-01-26 00:15 ((USB is not realtime, hence, in order to make an USB CNC, you need...)) still doubting that quite a lot 2014-01-26 00:15 DocScrutinizer05: well, there's some isochronous shit 2014-01-26 00:15 but it's not easy 2014-01-26 00:16 wpwrak: okay, read the stuff you wrote 2014-01-26 00:16 you don't want to send real-time commands. just load a set of instructions and process them. if the pc stops unexpectedly, just bring the mill to a halt 2014-01-26 00:16 I think I want an adjustable collet 2014-01-26 00:16 I think wpwrak and me discussed it and I evaluated the maximum speed you can drive it 2014-01-26 00:17 viric has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 2014-01-26 00:17 and the maximum precision you can achieve (due to 'jitter' of USB) which you anyway only want to use in low speed mode 2014-01-26 00:17 it's always oust one max one step error 2014-01-26 00:17 just* 2014-01-26 00:18 viric has joined #qi-hardware 2014-01-26 00:18 you could get away with it but why take chances ? much easier to cat stuff.gcode >/dev/ttyUSB0 and be done with it 2014-01-26 00:18 and one (micro)step of steper should always be quite below what's max precision of your CNC 2014-01-26 00:19 else you also have to worry about other usb peripherals getting in the way, your process not getting scheduled in time, and all that 2014-01-26 00:19 errr, doesn't exactly same problem apply for realtime LPT? 2014-01-26 00:20 of course. that's why you need a dedicated pc for it :) 2014-01-26 00:20 if you put it all into the usb critter you can use your laptop 2014-01-26 00:20 and I still say that's nonsense 2014-01-26 00:21 well, what happens if you miss a deadline ? 2014-01-26 00:21 a general-purpose pc will sometimes do that, especially if your application involves usb. 2014-01-26 00:22 the max jitter mustn't exceed 50% of step time. IOW you mustn't have >+/-180° phase jitter 2014-01-26 00:22 (without usb you can have a separate real-time subsystem that will be relatively safe. but it can only talk "best effort" to the rest of the system) 2014-01-26 00:23 max step freq of any such stepper is well below say 5kHz 2014-01-26 00:23 what happens if you get the timing wrong ? 2014-01-26 00:23 how wrong? 2014-01-26 00:23 let's assume you can detect it and take corrective actions 2014-01-26 00:23 completely missing a step? 2014-01-26 00:23 wrong = let's say something prevents you from running for 10 ms 2014-01-26 00:24 or 100 ms. or whatever 2014-01-26 00:24 think of a usb bus reset 2014-01-26 00:24 wpwrak: DocScrutinizer05: EMC2 uses linux-rt kernel 2014-01-26 00:24 you'd need a linux-rt kernel even for usb one 2014-01-26 00:24 as long as you sync in with next or 2nd next step to a hard pace raster, nothing will happen. Motor is too slow (aka inert) to do anything bad with one or two wrong steps 2014-01-26 00:24 wolfspraul has joined #qi-hardware 2014-01-26 00:25 unless you offload the movement completely to the controller 2014-01-26 00:25 and then it basically needs a gcode interpreter 2014-01-26 00:25 sorry, that's nonsense 2014-01-26 00:25 you can run rt processes in any arbitrary standard linux 2014-01-26 00:25 whitequark: i think the gcode interpreter sounds like the way to go. find the subset you actually need. 2014-01-26 00:25 why does linux-rt kernel exist then? 2014-01-26 00:25 DocScrutinizer05: but they're not really RT ;-) 2014-01-26 00:26 wpwrak: simple subset of gcode can be implemented very quickly 2014-01-26 00:26 they are sufficiently RT for a low number of processes or even just one process 2014-01-26 00:26 a more interesting one which would be compatible with EMC2 is a tad more work, you'd need shit like expressions 2014-01-26 00:26 but it is not really hard 2014-01-26 00:26 whitequark: two different things. regular linux "rt" is high scheduling priority. but disabling interrupts or anything that doens't want to give up its time slice will still delay you 2014-01-26 00:26 DocScrutinizer05: ^ 2014-01-26 00:26 when you take care to have a driver in kernel to watch for the timing 2014-01-26 00:26 whitequark: the special rt kernels have a special subsystem that has complete priority over the regular kernel 2014-01-26 00:27 and EMC2 really runs on the border of possible jitter for my mill 2014-01-26 00:27 says who? 2014-01-26 00:27 EMC2? 2014-01-26 00:28 whitequark: you probably don't need all the bells and whistles from the beginning. and since you have the code, you can just compile it as a checker with which you can dry-run the jobs, see if there's anything you couldn't handle. 2014-01-26 00:28 wpwrak: of course 2014-01-26 00:28 wolfspra1l has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 2014-01-26 00:28 or just upload it to device and let it verify 2014-01-26 00:28 I'd want a higher-end F4 anyway for floating point 2014-01-26 00:28 that'll make NURBS splines and so very easy 2014-01-26 00:29 whitequark: yup. once you're confident, that's the way to go. have a nice big led to tell you when something it missing. or add a little OLED ;-) 2014-01-26 00:29 yeah 2014-01-26 00:29 if you get an F4 then an OLED would be fitting :) 2014-01-26 00:29 honestly guys, you sound like you know something about software but pretty much zilch about stepper motors 2014-01-26 00:30 rz2k has quit [] 2014-01-26 00:31 DocScrutinizer05: yes, but we know the sw rather well ;-) if a complex io subsystem linux usb is involved, things get messy. now i didn't try to do rt with usb but i did with ide. and while you can get very good results, you won't always win. 2014-01-26 00:31 ehehe 2014-01-26 00:32 of course when you think you can create a 1second metronome like "while true; do beep; sleep 1; done" then you get into trouble with stepper motors and persumed non RT properties of linux 2014-01-26 00:32 it's not a problem to run linux-rt today anyway 2014-01-26 00:32 debian has it 2014-01-26 00:33 look, amiga1000 did "realtime stepper motor" all the time, for floppy head positioning 2014-01-26 00:33 DocScrutinizer05: well, it essentially had an RTOS then 2014-01-26 00:33 linux is way more complex 2014-01-26 00:33 haha 2014-01-26 00:34 yeah, you for sure will fail when you think you can control your LPT or USB from a norma userland process directly 2014-01-26 00:34 no matter what scheduling you use 2014-01-26 00:35 toldya you need a kernel land module that runs with kernel prio to do the realtime stuff 2014-01-26 00:36 in fact user space is just fine as long as you request a real-time priority 2014-01-26 00:36 for example, this is in user space: http://downloads.qi-hardware.com/people/werner/ubb/vga/web/ 2014-01-26 00:37 GTA02 OS did FIQ for HDQ and for vibra PWM iirc. And each one worked fine as long as not both happened same time 2014-01-26 00:37 sure, but is the USB stack itself realtime? I betcha it's not 2014-01-26 00:37 (of course, ubb-vga does a great many ugly things ... ;-) 2014-01-26 00:38 of course it isn't 2014-01-26 00:38 now tell me that a 1GHz x86 ca't do what a S3C2442 with err 200MHz(?) been able to accomplish? 2014-01-26 00:38 and usb is easily upset 2014-01-26 00:38 it can, with linux-rt 2014-01-26 00:38 just plug in a usb device that has problems and boom 2014-01-26 00:38 heck, "the USB stack" is not even working for flashing 2014-01-26 00:40 I guess what you cal "the USB stack" does a lot in userland 2014-01-26 00:40 not in userland but in kernel threadlets 2014-01-26 00:40 tasklets 2014-01-26 00:40 besides, whitequark will need something to fill that monstrous f4 with. so there's every reason to have the gcode interpreter in there ;-) 2014-01-26 00:41 does USB use tasklets ? i never looked 2014-01-26 00:42 I remember it had 2014-01-26 00:42 err yep, worker thread or whatever, I seem to recall from musb_hdrc 2014-01-26 00:42 [khubd] ? 2014-01-26 00:42 worker thread is "user land" for me, though really it probably isn't 2014-01-26 00:43 yeah, worker threads in the kernel are pretty much like user space, as far a scheduling is concerned 2014-01-26 00:43 :nod: 2014-01-26 00:43 that's what I thought, though i never looked into it 2014-01-26 00:43 it's their purpose 2014-01-26 00:43 note that they can therefore also get "real-time" priority. but just be careful with that ... 2014-01-26 00:44 (waits for larsc to chime to in ;-) 2014-01-26 00:47 arielenter has joined #qi-hardware 2014-01-26 00:47 oh SHITE. Looked out the window and noticed the world got mouldy since I last did 2014-01-26 00:48 I like mildew only on cheese 2014-01-26 00:48 and some special sorts of salami 2014-01-26 00:49 your disconnected fridge has windows ? 2014-01-26 00:49 yeah 2014-01-26 00:49 and it's laaaarge 2014-01-26 00:49 they actually built my apartment inside that fridge 2014-01-26 00:51 (I think acid's kicking in) 2014-01-26 00:51 DocScrutinizer05 --> http://25.media.tumblr.com/vVmbDWseNi0vony2V6inpGjoo1_400.jpg 2014-01-26 00:52 lol, check out Kafka, do you think he needed any chemicals? 2014-01-26 00:53 actually, I dunno. Did he? 2014-01-26 00:54 did anyone in that era not ? 2014-01-26 00:54 I think he was legitimately crazy 2014-01-26 00:54 which is the same thing 2014-01-26 00:54 * whitequark <3 Kafka 2014-01-26 00:55 i don't. way too close to reality. 2014-01-26 00:56 http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Die_Verwandlung hmmmm 2014-01-26 00:57 http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Der_Bau 2014-01-26 00:57 well, my mildew is pretty close to reality then 2014-01-26 00:58 The Castle is amazing 2014-01-26 00:58 I've read it while doing a certain paperwork-intensive process 2014-01-26 00:58 and I think pondering about what's "home2 and "freedom" for a bird that never lands is not any weirder than http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Der_Bau 2014-01-26 00:58 it's like wanting to kill yourself, but now also in your fantasies 2014-01-26 01:01 arielenter has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 2014-01-26 01:26 dandon has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 2014-01-26 01:27 dandon_ has joined #qi-hardware 2014-01-26 01:27 dandon_ is now known as dandon 2014-01-26 02:11 okay 2014-01-26 02:11 magic smoke HAS escaped from the spindle board. 2014-01-26 02:15 some guy from forums reported the same thing 2014-01-26 02:15 so it's likely not me 2014-01-26 02:17 the transformer is HOT 2014-01-26 02:17 I can't touch it, it's that hot 2014-01-26 02:21 aha, I'm inclined to think that the transformer was breakdown 2014-01-26 02:21 the spindle started to spin very quickly on a minimal setting, then there was some cracking noise and a funny smell 2014-01-26 02:22 except it's not the smell of exploded semiconductors, it's more the smell of fresh epoxy 2014-01-26 02:22 and a fuse is burned 2014-01-26 02:22 I'd say electrical breakdown of insulation in the transformer. guess it wasn't rated for 136V after all. 2014-01-26 02:23 oh, and there's nothing visibly burned or exploded or just hot on the spindle board. 2014-01-26 02:27 ah, no, there's a dead 7812 2014-01-26 02:29 INPUT shorted to GND... a very lucky mode of failure. burned the fuse and probably saved the rest of circuits 2014-01-26 02:37 yes. but it's hard to believe this been caused by a mere 20% "over"voltage 2014-01-26 02:38 sure. as I've said, some guy on the forums reported this board exploding, too, I've googled it by the board markings 2014-01-26 02:38 although in my case, if the 7812 exploded, it's certainly a big overvoltage 2014-01-26 02:38 I guess I can try to turn it on without load and measure the actual AC output of the transformer 2014-01-26 02:38 7812 is hardened for for input voltages up to 30V iirc, and should shut down on overtemp. And a transformer hardly ever breaks from overvoltage 2014-01-26 02:38 let's hope it doesn't burn my house down or something... reminds me I need to get a fire extinguisher 2014-01-26 02:39 there's a smoke alarm, but afaik it's not even plugged in, much less working 2014-01-26 02:39 russia, duh. 2014-01-26 02:41 when transformer is of abysmal quality, it might short a turn in primary coil (out of no particular reason), which in turn causes a short and massive temperature increase due to that, which shorts further turns in primary, reducing the number of active turns on primary, thus turning a e.g. 20:1 transformer into a 1:1 transformer 2014-01-26 02:42 in this case, will the transformer itself tend to burn down when I use it? 2014-01-26 02:43 I'd claim warranty repair at seller/manuf, clearly stating that you probed the input voltage with DVM and it been in allowable range for a 110V device 2014-01-26 02:43 transformers have nothing that burns 2014-01-26 02:43 I mean literally, in a fire 2014-01-26 02:43 they can get pretty hot 2014-01-26 02:43 insulation? 2014-01-26 02:43 but can't burn 2014-01-26 02:43 (except the very huge ones) 2014-01-26 02:44 oh okay. guess I'll just be quick then 2014-01-26 02:44 well, eventually isolation will evaporate and maybe create flamable fumes 2014-01-26 02:44 at maybe 300°C 2014-01-26 02:45 usually *every* transfomer is built in a way so it "fuses" out before anything like this ever happens 2014-01-26 02:46 also all transformer devices madatory have a real fuse in primary circuit 2014-01-26 02:46 it's connected directly to the mains 2014-01-26 02:46 which should blow as soon as a single turn in transformer shorts 2014-01-26 02:47 well, through a switch 2014-01-26 02:47 sometimes swirch has builtin fuse 2014-01-26 02:47 doesn't seem like such a switch 2014-01-26 02:47 often transformer has builtin fuse 2014-01-26 02:47 well, maybe 2014-01-26 02:47 pcercuei has quit [Quit: dodo] 2014-01-26 02:47 actually, hm, zero voltage on output 2014-01-26 02:47 often chinese build incredibly dangerous crap and still aren't shy to print "CE" on it 2014-01-26 02:48 either a fuse or just some of my plugs are shitty (they are) 2014-01-26 02:49 well, the *rest* of the device is built very well. good looking PCBs, nonshitty components, good soldering, all wires are accurately wrapped in cambric with the name of circuit printed 2014-01-26 02:49 like this: http://maemo.cloud-7.de/share-service/20121122_001.jpg 2014-01-26 02:49 components are from the official vendors (ir, nec, toshiba japan, etc) and not chinese generics 2014-01-26 02:49 hrm 2014-01-26 02:49 yeah, that's sad 2014-01-26 02:50 the above is prone to kill you with 220V when the 0.05mm plastc fail to isolate the PCB thruhole solderpoints from the Alu heatsink 2014-01-26 02:51 okay, I'm pretty positive the transformer is dead 2014-01-26 02:51 the autotransformer is buzzing like crazy when I plug the device in 2014-01-26 02:51 it never did before and looking as the load is disconnected entirely... yeah 2014-01-26 02:52 then you better don't 2014-01-26 02:52 yeah, DOA. 2014-01-26 02:52 :nod: 2014-01-26 02:52 a pity. ask for 50% refund 2014-01-26 02:52 get good transformer and new 7812 2014-01-26 02:53 I wonder if I need a good transformer, I've R/Ed the circuit mostly 2014-01-26 02:53 hehe 2014-01-26 02:53 it's absurdly simple. has 18V~ and 36V~ inputs 2014-01-26 02:53 sure you can go for any arbitrary 12V PSU given it's strong enough 2014-01-26 02:54 feeds 18V~ to 7812 and then there's a PWM made with a single 555 timer (no joke) 2014-01-26 02:54 ooh, what for are the 36V~? 2014-01-26 02:54 er, 18V rectified 2014-01-26 02:54 sure, told ya 2014-01-26 02:54 that's usualy meant to be 16V~ 2014-01-26 02:54 the 555 output is fed directly to an IRF740 power transistor gating the 36V rectified to the spindle 2014-01-26 02:55 for you it been 20 2014-01-26 02:55 7812 should cope with that 2014-01-26 02:55 aaah spindle 2014-01-26 02:55 yeah, ok. No problem to replace that shit with something homemade 2014-01-26 02:56 okay, tell me... 36V~ is what Vrms or Vp-p? 2014-01-26 02:56 and what does my DVM measure? 2014-01-26 02:56 what did you use to meter it? 2014-01-26 02:56 it's written on the transformer labe 2014-01-26 02:56 *label 2014-01-26 02:56 aaah, it's written "36V" there? 2014-01-26 02:56 :nod: 2014-01-26 02:56 yes, and on the PCB too 2014-01-26 02:56 then it's effective 2014-01-26 02:56 so Vrms right? 2014-01-26 02:57 err, basically 2014-01-26 02:57 and when I rectify and filter 18V~rms, I get what, 18V= ? 2014-01-26 02:57 well, what your DVM shows 2014-01-26 02:57 well, slightly less. assume an ideal rectifier 2014-01-26 02:57 nah, you get 18V*sqrt(2) iirc 2014-01-26 02:58 but Vrms is what power I'd get if I plug that into a resistor 2014-01-26 02:58 unless you have sufficient load 2014-01-26 02:58 so if I rectify it and plug it to the same resistor, I should get same power 2014-01-26 02:58 no? 2014-01-26 02:58 ah, that's what you mean by sufficient load 2014-01-26 02:58 yes, unless you have a buffer C 2014-01-26 02:58 there's a huge-ass cap, of course 2014-01-26 02:58 :nod: 2014-01-26 02:59 2200µF 50V 2014-01-26 02:59 then it's more like 22V= 2014-01-26 02:59 ah I see 2014-01-26 03:00 that explains why the input on the spindle board is marked 24V 2014-01-26 03:00 maybe even 25 2014-01-26 03:00 connected to rectifier output 2014-01-26 03:00 :nod: 2014-01-26 03:00 ok, so I need a 24V/50V power source 2014-01-26 03:00 err, the 36V are rectified and buffered? 2014-01-26 03:01 yep, the spindle is a DC motor 2014-01-26 03:01 the latter particularly 2014-01-26 03:01 yep, there are two smaller caps 2014-01-26 03:01 mhm 2014-01-26 03:01 22µF 2014-01-26 03:01 x2 2014-01-26 03:01 you said that's what type of 3-pin transistor? 2014-01-26 03:01 is it a transistor? 2014-01-26 03:01 power mosfet 2014-01-26 03:01 mhm 2014-01-26 03:02 yeah, makes sense 2014-01-26 03:02 honestly, i'd probably buold it in a similar way 2014-01-26 03:02 build 2014-01-26 03:02 ne555 is just fine for a PWM 2014-01-26 03:02 yeah, it's not a terribly designed board. just the fucking transformer *shakes fist* 2014-01-26 03:03 do you have a good 24V power source 2014-01-26 03:03 my adjustable source can give 24V 3A 2014-01-26 03:04 should be more than enough for steppers... but not spindle 2014-01-26 03:04 you could try the rest of board and spindle motor with any arbitrary ooops 12V source 2014-01-26 03:04 spindle is 200W so 4A 2014-01-26 03:04 DocScrutinizer05: (transformers have nothing that burns) rememeber that ICE fire ? ;-) 2014-01-26 03:04 wpwrak: that been alu 2014-01-26 03:04 wpwrak: he said "except really big ones" 2014-01-26 03:04 that too 2014-01-26 03:04 and those are likely quite big. well, surely bigger than mine 2014-01-26 03:04 ah, then you said "(except the very huge ones)". good :) 2014-01-26 03:05 big ones are oil cooled 2014-01-26 03:05 big ones are notorious to catch fire 2014-01-26 03:05 nasty 2014-01-26 03:06 whitequark: (official vendors) how can you tell ? ;-) 2014-01-26 03:06 wpwrak: properly looking laser engraving 2014-01-26 03:06 whitequark: you can operate spindle with 12V, just to see if it all still works 2014-01-26 03:06 plus usually if they're going to install counterfeit components, the rest of it is going to look like shit 2014-01-26 03:07 don't turn it up to full power 2014-01-26 03:07 DocScrutinizer05: or 24V 2014-01-26 03:07 err the 7812 is meant to provide 12V}, no? 2014-01-26 03:08 7812 is just for the 555+irf720 2014-01-26 03:08 sure you can attach 24V to the 36V~ branch 2014-01-26 03:08 so yeah... actually I think I even have a spare 7812 2014-01-26 03:08 so could fix it right now 2014-01-26 03:08 :nod: even better 2014-01-26 03:08 how's the steppers operated? 2014-01-26 03:09 separate board. didn't look at it close yet, lemme unscrew it 2014-01-26 03:10 I'm worried about your report of "sppindle shortly running at full speed on lowspeed setting" 2014-01-26 03:10 yeah, same 2014-01-26 03:10 DocScrutinizer05: (alu) the reports sounds as if before that came the oil from the transformers. but i guess it was all a jumbled mess ;-) 2014-01-26 03:10 might be caused by 12V branch going offline, leaving the MOSFET at always-closed 2014-01-26 03:11 wpwrak: yes, that's why I mentioned the oil 2014-01-26 03:11 use of oil starts at maybe 10kW transformers 2014-01-26 03:12 maybe even higher 2014-01-26 03:12 ok... toshiba tb6560ahq stepper drivers 2014-01-26 03:12 I guess the motors are powered by 36V as well? 2014-01-26 03:12 a lot of what looks like optocouplers, but can't quickly google the part# 2014-01-26 03:13 a 74HC chip, and something that looks like a high-power linear voltage regulator 2014-01-26 03:13 (counterfeit) don't count on it. sharism once got a nice patch of some fairly trivial chips. they were ordered as originals and looked credible enough. yet they were fakes. of course they only found out after making a batch of milkymist with them ... 2014-01-26 03:13 no, that board only has one 24VDC input 2014-01-26 03:13 yes, those definitely are optocouplers 2014-01-26 03:13 wow 2014-01-26 03:13 ok, those steppers are not as powerful 2014-01-26 03:14 ooh 2014-01-26 03:14 it's not a linear regulator 2014-01-26 03:14 SPSU? 2014-01-26 03:14 it's diodes inc AP1501, 150KHz,3A PWM BUCK DC/DC CONVERTER 2014-01-26 03:14 yep 2014-01-26 03:14 :-) 2014-01-26 03:14 there you are ! 2014-01-26 03:14 lemme look the output V 2014-01-26 03:15 wpwrak: that's not enough of them! 2014-01-26 03:15 ok... it steps down to 5V 2014-01-26 03:15 the fuck it needs 24V input for?! 2014-01-26 03:15 in the end you may be able to just use a pc power supply ;-) 2014-01-26 03:15 yes, I'm getting that feeling 2014-01-26 03:16 24V since it been there 2014-01-26 03:17 the motors need it 2014-01-26 03:17 mhmm 2014-01-26 03:17 lemme check where it gets the motor voltage 2014-01-26 03:17 use -12 V and +12 V ;-) 2014-01-26 03:17 wpwrak: PC PSUs have negligible current on -12V 2014-01-26 03:17 if it was 110V, the'd have used a SPSU with 110V input 2014-01-26 03:18 also this mosfet is connected in a way which requires a common ground... it doesn't have an isolated gate 2014-01-26 03:18 so no luck with that scheme. but nice try 2014-01-26 03:18 hmm? 2014-01-26 03:19 well, if you make -12 V your ground and -5 V your "+5 V", you're kinda almost there ;-) 2014-01-26 03:19 ooh, you mean because of PC PSU ground? 2014-01-26 03:19 DocScrutinizer05: well, it's the gate-source voltage which turns it on 2014-01-26 03:19 yes 2014-01-26 03:19 if the source is at -12V and the gate is at +12V... 2014-01-26 03:19 actually, it's out of AMR 2014-01-26 03:19 don't worry, what's PSU ground doesn't have to be steppercontrol GND 2014-01-26 03:19 which is 20V 2014-01-26 03:20 mm 2014-01-26 03:20 you might use 2 pcs 12V PC PSU in series 2014-01-26 03:20 DocScrutinizer05: anyway, PC PSUs can supply like 300mA on -12V 2014-01-26 03:20 two PSUs would work, yes 2014-01-26 03:20 it's kind of a shitty setup though 2014-01-26 03:20 and doesn't give 50V too 2014-01-26 03:20 make sure to power then both up properly before connecting secondary load 2014-01-26 03:21 and I don't have two of them 2014-01-26 03:21 and I can just use 24V output from my configurable supply 2014-01-26 03:21 yes, I'd try that 2014-01-26 03:22 what do the 50 V get mangled into ? 2014-01-26 03:22 should even work for spindle, at low RPM 2014-01-26 03:22 so... I think I should check whether the stepper board is dead first 2014-01-26 03:22 spindle motor 2014-01-26 03:22 with configurable PSU 2014-01-26 03:22 yes 2014-01-26 03:23 DocScrutinizer05: (refund) it would be hard to argue that 134V is within operating conditions 2014-01-26 03:23 since the block is clearly labeled as 110V-120VAC 2014-01-26 03:23 I wouldn't argue about that with them 2014-01-26 03:23 ah, gotcha 2014-01-26 03:24 that transformer is so massive, we're talking for an hour and it's still hot 2014-01-26 03:24 such a waste of metal 2014-01-26 03:24 hehe 2014-01-26 03:24 I could probably sell it for good $ 2014-01-26 03:24 well, it took it about 2 ? 3 ? hours to overheat ... 2014-01-26 03:25 no, I played with it for about 20 minutes this session 2014-01-26 03:25 when it actually *over*heated then you'd see that from outside 2014-01-26 03:25 and a few hours before that, but it got time to cool down 2014-01-26 03:26 ah. so you russians got a bit more careful after chernobyl :) 2014-01-26 03:26 and that particular usage pattern makes it *very* unlikely it overheated in 20min, after working 3h before 2014-01-26 03:26 hahaha 2014-01-26 03:26 never was this joke more appropriate 2014-01-26 03:26 DocScrutinizer05: okay ... became the dominant heating element in whitequark's vicinity :) 2014-01-26 03:27 ooooh, THAT's why the room was so hot 2014-01-26 03:27 that actually may make perfect sense 2014-01-26 03:27 [2014-01-25 20:53:43] occasional manual control of temperature of whole thing can't hurt, until you got familiar with it 2014-01-26 03:27 ;-) 2014-01-26 03:28 (I'm not serious about the room, it was just the A/C heating it up. But it might have contribued to the problem) 2014-01-26 03:28 (manual control) I did control it, without disassembling the block. the metallic case was a bit warm. 2014-01-26 03:28 since metal is a good heat conductor I decided the insides aren't particularly hotter 2014-01-26 03:29 then it's highly unlikely it overheated 2014-01-26 03:29 you usually also smell overheated trafo an hour before it becomes critical 2014-01-26 03:29 the metal transformer core is screwed to a metal pad which is screwed directly to the metal case with high contact area 2014-01-26 03:30 ah, no, there was definitely no smell, even seconds before breakdown 2014-01-26 03:30 and I smelled it very strongly immediately after 2014-01-26 03:30 so... what was it if not overheat? 2014-01-26 03:30 crappy isolation of winding wire 2014-01-26 03:31 the isolation should withstand the 5 times overvolatge at least before breakdown 2014-01-26 03:31 volatile components considered unnecessary unless proven otherwise ? 2014-01-26 03:31 wpwrak: volatile? 2014-01-26 03:32 stuff that escapes. under certain acceptable (unless proven otherwise) operating conditions :) 2014-01-26 03:33 when they used cheap wire to do the transformer coils, and that cheap wire then gets mechanical damage during sloppy manufacturing, then the isolation may break while manufacturing and finally breaks down shorting one wind 2014-01-26 03:33 or a few winds 2014-01-26 03:33 s/wind/turn/ 2014-01-26 03:33 DocScrutinizer05 meant: "or a few turns" 2014-01-26 03:33 right 2014-01-26 03:33 btw I can't get off the clamp of the transformer input wire off the terminal 2014-01-26 03:34 it's the same type of terminal like e.g. 12V terminals in cars 2014-01-26 03:34 often the contact wires are soldered to the thinner internal coil wide, and often those solder joints are sharp 2014-01-26 03:34 do they have some hidden latches or something? no amount of forces disconnects it 2014-01-26 03:34 what does it look like ? 2014-01-26 03:34 yes, they have a latch 2014-01-26 03:35 like this one: http://i571.photobucket.com/albums/ss160/4listing/BE_tem1/AU004-tem1-1.jpg 2014-01-26 03:35 in the center 2014-01-26 03:35 except it's on the power socket, like mains socket on a computer PSU 2014-01-26 03:35 either a bumb that fits into hole, or even a real latch 2014-01-26 03:36 usually bump though, that goes into the hole 2014-01-26 03:36 ah, I see it now. a bump. 2014-01-26 03:36 apply force 2014-01-26 03:36 already applying it, with a makeshift lever out of hex key 2014-01-26 03:36 seems like the connector would break first 2014-01-26 03:37 aha, got it off 2014-01-26 03:37 needed more force 2014-01-26 03:38 hmm, I could fit a small computer PSU in place of that enormous chunk of metal... 2014-01-26 03:38 maybe two 2014-01-26 03:39 pro tip: the other side of the hole in the male end is usually open 2014-01-26 03:39 a smal nail... 2014-01-26 03:39 ... in the head of whoever made that transformer... 2014-01-26 03:40 hehe 2014-01-26 03:41 also those plugs always are with two almost closed "tubes", each long side one. You can insert a nail into the "tube" and slightly bend it open. Plug falls off like a dead fly from the wall 2014-01-26 03:41 yep, that was my second option 2014-01-26 03:43