2014-01-25 00:24 dos1 has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 2014-01-25 00:25 wolfspra1l has joined #qi-hardware 2014-01-25 00:29 wolfspraul has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 2014-01-25 00:38 nicksydney has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 2014-01-25 00:47 there you have the whole range of gcode - from the trivial set of a handful commands things like kicad use to writing entire programs 2014-01-25 00:48 DocScrutinizer05: a very different question: how is the pictures quality coming along ? :) 2014-01-25 00:49 panda|x201 has joined #qi-hardware 2014-01-25 01:06 arielenter1 has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 2014-01-25 01:07 nicksydney has joined #qi-hardware 2014-01-25 01:12 I think there must be a nazillion of tests available in the intarwebs written by people more savvy about picture qualtity than I am. 2014-01-25 01:12 bazillion* :-S 2014-01-25 01:21 whitequark: you never coded in COBOL, eh? 2014-01-25 01:22 you know that COBOL compiler creates code that stores reurn addr at and of subroutine code as an instruction? 2014-01-25 01:22 of course COBOL also has calculated GOSUBs 2014-01-25 01:23 DocScrutinizer05: COBOL no, but I've did a little bit of PDP-7, it's the same there 2014-01-25 01:23 don't ask why. 2014-01-25 01:23 anyway that weird method of storing return addr un the subroutine instead of a stack makes recursive or reentrant programming quite interesting ;-) 2014-01-25 01:24 yeah... fascinating historical tidbit 2014-01-25 01:24 good thing we have stacks n stuff now 2014-01-25 01:25 hehe 2014-01-25 01:25 not in g-code ;-) 2014-01-25 01:25 or do we? 2014-01-25 01:25 can a subroutine call a subroutine? 2014-01-25 01:26 can a subroutine call itself recursively? 2014-01-25 01:26 it can, it even stores the local vars in a stack! 2014-01-25 01:26 wow 2014-01-25 01:26 that's even basic gcode, not some sophisticated modern extension 2014-01-25 01:26 pretty cool 2014-01-25 01:36 panda|x201 has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 2014-01-25 01:52 arielenter has joined #qi-hardware 2014-01-25 01:56 DocScrutinizer05 has quit [Disconnected by services] 2014-01-25 01:56 DocScrutinizer05 has joined #qi-hardware 2014-01-25 02:17 (nazillion of tests) yeah, but i mean specifically the quality of pictures you're making :) i.e., are you satisfied with them ? 2014-01-25 02:36 arielenter has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 2014-01-25 02:36 arielenter has joined #qi-hardware 2014-01-25 02:51 arielenter has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 2014-01-25 02:51 arielenter has joined #qi-hardware 2014-01-25 02:52 arielenter has quit [Client Quit] 2014-01-25 02:52 arielenter1 has joined #qi-hardware 2014-01-25 02:52 arielenter1 has quit [Client Quit] 2014-01-25 02:52 arielenter has joined #qi-hardware 2014-01-25 02:53 arielenter has quit [Client Quit] 2014-01-25 02:53 arielenter1 has joined #qi-hardware 2014-01-25 02:53 arielenter1 has quit [Client Quit] 2014-01-25 02:53 arielenter has joined #qi-hardware 2014-01-25 02:54 arielenter has quit [Client Quit] 2014-01-25 02:54 arielenter has joined #qi-hardware 2014-01-25 02:54 arielenter has quit [Client Quit] 2014-01-25 02:54 arielenter1 has joined #qi-hardware 2014-01-25 02:55 arielenter1 has quit [Client Quit] 2014-01-25 02:55 arielenter has joined #qi-hardware 2014-01-25 02:55 arielenter has quit [Client Quit] 2014-01-25 02:55 arielenter has joined #qi-hardware 2014-01-25 02:56 arielenter has quit [Client Quit] 2014-01-25 02:56 arielenter1 has joined #qi-hardware 2014-01-25 02:56 arielenter1 has quit [Client Quit] 2014-01-25 02:56 arielenter has joined #qi-hardware 2014-01-25 02:57 arielenter has quit [Client Quit] 2014-01-25 02:57 arielenter1 has joined #qi-hardware 2014-01-25 02:58 arielenter has joined #qi-hardware 2014-01-25 02:58 arielenter1 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 2014-01-25 02:58 arielenter has quit [Client Quit] 2014-01-25 02:58 arielenter has joined #qi-hardware 2014-01-25 02:58 arielenter has quit [Client Quit] 2014-01-25 02:59 arielenter1 has joined #qi-hardware 2014-01-25 02:59 arielenter1 has quit [Client Quit] 2014-01-25 02:59 arielenter has joined #qi-hardware 2014-01-25 02:59 arielenter has quit [Client Quit] 2014-01-25 03:00 arielenter has joined #qi-hardware 2014-01-25 03:04 arielenter has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 2014-01-25 03:12 Bank-Run Fears Continue; HSBC Restricts Large Cash Withdrawals - http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-01-24/bank-run-fears-continue-hsbc-restricts-large-cash-withdrawals 2014-01-25 03:12 interesting....it's your own money but you have to explain why you want to withdraw it...welcome to GFC 2.0 :) 2014-01-25 03:13 anyone here do bitcoins ? what you think about it ? 2014-01-25 03:14 (having to explain) at first i thought you were writing about argentina ;-) 2014-01-25 03:14 wpwrak: Argentina's 64K Peso Question: What Hits The Bottom Of This Chart First - http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-01-24/argentinas-64k-peso-question-what-hits-bottom-chart-first 2014-01-25 03:15 now i am :) 2014-01-25 03:15 nice graph ;-) 2014-01-25 03:15 seems like there is a riot going on in Ukraine http://rt.com/on-air/ukraine-kiev-police-protesters/ 2014-01-25 03:16 live feed 2014-01-25 03:19 people seem to be quietly standing by the fires. it's cold there. they have to keep warm. 2014-01-25 03:20 pcercuei has quit [Quit: dodo] 2014-01-25 03:20 wpwrak: free heat can't beat that :) 2014-01-25 03:21 Second Dot Com Bubble .. something that you can't see as it's not in the public stock market...but it's private ... http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-01-24/here-second-dot-com-bubble-just-beyond-public-view 2014-01-25 03:24 wow! didn't know that Spain's unemployment has gone to 26% ~~~ 2014-01-25 03:25 wpwrak: Argentina +139bps at 2562.07bps, hit highest since Sept. 2014-01-25 03:26 wpwrak: that's for CDS rate....percentage it takes to insured on default of a financial institutions 2014-01-25 03:29 arielenter has joined #qi-hardware 2014-01-25 03:37 interesting the have a reality show called Gigolo ... "Hardest working man in Vegas" ... didn't know being gigolo was hard work :) 2014-01-25 03:38 hmm, i thought the "hard work" was the main reason that job existed ? 2014-01-25 03:40 grml. broke a drill bit. now i'm down to the last one. didn't realize i had almost none left :-( 2014-01-25 03:47 wpwrak: thought your mantra is to "stock up" and make sure you have plenty laying around :) 2014-01-25 03:47 wpwrak: time to do more shopping for those drills 2014-01-25 03:50 arielenter has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 2014-01-25 03:51 (mantra) yeah, that's why i didn't expect to be down to the last one 2014-01-25 03:52 well, i have a few others of a similar size that i could use in an emergency 2014-01-25 03:52 and shopping may be a problem now, with new customs restrictions 2014-01-25 03:58 wpwrak: maybe time to move out Argentina ? and move somewhere else ? 2014-01-25 03:59 let's hope it doesn't come to that ... 2014-01-25 05:10 wej has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 2014-01-25 05:13 http://privatepaste.com/869c8379e5 <--- suckers 2014-01-25 05:36 got a lot of friends ? :) 2014-01-25 05:40 obviously 2014-01-25 05:42 and this, which refuses to go to pastebin :-S 2014-01-25 05:42 jr@saturn:~> nc -nlu 51542 2014-01-25 05:42 DISCOVER * HTTP/1.1 2014-01-25 05:42 MX:3 2014-01-25 05:42 HOST:192.168.4.255:L 2014-01-25 05:42 DSCADDR:192.168.4.20 2014-01-25 05:43 SERVICE:PCAUTOSAVE/1.0 2014-01-25 05:44 ---now if anybody could tell me what to answer to that friggin camera, I'd be able to type it into terminal to nc stdin 2014-01-25 05:56 whats that? upnp? 2014-01-25 05:56 Fuji XQ1 2014-01-25 05:56 in "PC Auto Save" mode 2014-01-25 05:57 on trying to detect the PC to save pictures to 2014-01-25 05:57 hm.. so something proprietary or upnp-esque? 2014-01-25 05:57 http://app.fujifilm-dsc.com/de/pc_autosave/index.html 2014-01-25 05:57 tried sniffing yet? 2014-01-25 05:58 sure 2014-01-25 05:58 as far as sniffing goes without any wincrap to run fujicrap on 2014-01-25 05:58 well. not much to get around that. 2014-01-25 05:59 throw-away vm... as usual. 2014-01-25 05:59 no such vm available 2014-01-25 05:59 then i wish you fun decompiling that .net pile 2014-01-25 06:00 my last 2 PCs explicitly came without any windoze 2014-01-25 06:00 i wasnt suggesting buying one. 2014-01-25 06:00 could try wine 2014-01-25 06:01 oooh wait, I *might* have a working VM with installed XP somewhere 2014-01-25 06:03 or maybe I simply should check TPB 2014-01-25 06:05 and make sure my LAN is ready to cope with attacks from inside 2014-01-25 06:13 hmm, indeed 2014-01-25 06:13 -rw-r--r-- 2 jr users 8684 29. Sep 2008 Windows XP Professional.nvram 2014-01-25 06:13 -rw-r--r-- 2 jr users 2182938624 3. Jun 2012 Windows XP Professional.vmdk 2014-01-25 06:13 -rw-r--r-- 2 jr users 0 4. Sep 2008 Windows XP Professional.vmsd 2014-01-25 06:13 -rwxr-xr-x 2 jr users 1491 29. Sep 2008 Windows XP Professional.vmx 2014-01-25 06:13 -rw------- 2 jr users 278 29. Sep 2008 Windows XP Professional.vmxf 2014-01-25 06:54 alas all it creates is a 0.05s bluescreen and the known friggin startup menu "protected mode", "last known good config", "normal" etc 2014-01-25 09:29 lekernel has joined #qi-hardware 2014-01-25 09:42 has anybody been here http://www.apexelectronic.com/ 2014-01-25 09:45 wpwrak: http://cyberstalker.dk/finalkey/ 2014-01-25 09:47 wpwrak: hmmm....http://hackaday.com/2014/01/20/developed-on-hackaday-the-designs/ 2014-01-25 09:52 wpwrak: http://www.2x4logic.com/dapper.html 2014-01-25 09:54 qi-bot has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 2014-01-25 10:22 xiangfu has joined #qi-hardware 2014-01-25 10:31 wej has joined #qi-hardware 2014-01-25 10:56 lekernel has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 2014-01-25 11:04 rz2k has joined #qi-hardware 2014-01-25 11:08 lekernel has joined #qi-hardware 2014-01-25 11:16 (finalkey) hmm, seems unclear how it works. does it snoop the keyboard ? or are you expected to tell it via its serial console what password to send next ? 2014-01-25 11:19 (mooltipass, design #1) ah, so they stole anelok's look and feel :) 2014-01-25 11:19 derRichard has left #qi-hardware [#qi-hardware] 2014-01-25 11:29 dos1 has joined #qi-hardware 2014-01-25 11:30 rz2k has quit [] 2014-01-25 11:38 xiangfu has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 2014-01-25 11:44 qi-bot has joined #qi-hardware 2014-01-25 12:11 rz2k has joined #qi-hardware 2014-01-25 12:12 hmm. and now it also killed an endmill. apparently because of a transmission error that sent the mill on an incorrect course or some screw-up in the controller. that was also the second to last such endmill :-( 2014-01-25 12:18 pcercuei has joined #qi-hardware 2014-01-25 12:29 lekernel has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 2014-01-25 12:43 lekernel has joined #qi-hardware 2014-01-25 12:49 xiangfu has joined #qi-hardware 2014-01-25 12:59 that's unfortunate 2014-01-25 13:02 shouldn't the mill motor be mounted with >dehnungsmessstreifen< which instantly cut power to the stepper motors (or otherwise stop X/Y/Z movement) as soon as force exceeds a certain threshold? 2014-01-25 13:03 it did eventually stop. but it was already too late. the bit isn't very strong, some 0.8 mm diameter. 2014-01-25 13:04 hmm, the question is how sensible such sensor and how elastic the bit in comparison 2014-01-25 13:04 i did some more experiments. it happened again. something is wrong with the toolpath. the weird bit is that it didn't really change ... 2014-01-25 13:05 and how much inertia in steppers 2014-01-25 13:05 dunno how it senses an overload. of course, if the load is strong enough to snap the bit, then it means that it's still within what the mill itself can handle. so in a way it's correct not to stop ... 2014-01-25 13:06 (the mill doesn't know the strength of the bit) 2014-01-25 13:06 sure 2014-01-25 13:06 won't "work2 that way 2014-01-25 13:06 I think dehnungsmessstreifen is the way to go 2014-01-25 13:07 i'm not going to redesign my mill ;-) 2014-01-25 13:07 well, at least I know how I'm going to design mine now ;-) 2014-01-25 13:08 now ... i wonder what went so horribly wrong with my toolpaths ... 2014-01-25 13:08 btw the redesign for dehnungsmessstreifen is usually exactly zilch 2014-01-25 13:09 in your case however it actually could mean to weaken some lever or something so it has a defined location for elastic deformation 2014-01-25 13:09 compared to, say, building a 40 GW matter-antimatter reactor, i'm sure it's pretty easy ;-) 2014-01-25 13:10 meh 2014-01-25 13:10 do you know at all how dehnungsmessstreifen usually are mounted? 2014-01-25 13:11 no, but i'm reasonably sure there are no easy places to put them in my mill :) 2014-01-25 13:11 that's the nice part about those critters, you simply glue them to the surface of some steel that deforms a few nanometers 2014-01-25 13:11 in any case, there would be no reference data for setting a threshold 2014-01-25 13:11 i would have to literally break dozens of bits to find the limits 2014-01-25 13:12 or concrete or whatever you like 2014-01-25 13:13 and no, you simply had to apply a defined force radially to the axis of the tool and calibrate the DMS output 2014-01-25 13:13 the rest is math and you setting the upper limit you want for a certain tool 2014-01-25 13:13 yes, but it's still need to determine the maximum allowed load 2014-01-25 13:14 and besides, the things that deform most likely are the wires. and i doubt the dehnungsmesstreifen would survive doing around a wheel :) 2014-01-25 13:15 well, yes, you got a storage scope, to watch the sawtooth output of the DMS while breaking ONE tool 2014-01-25 13:15 also, don't forget that vibrations and load changes are normal. so you need to factor in all that, too. 2014-01-25 13:16 yeah, I see you're in arguing mood onnce more 2014-01-25 13:16 so nevermind, maybe eventually I show you a working design 2014-01-25 13:17 looking forward to see the joergmill 2014-01-25 13:17 ... and then read you curse as it breaks bit after bit despite all the precautions ;-) 2014-01-25 13:17 now you're starting trolling 2014-01-25 13:18 find someone else please to bash, to compensate your frustration 2014-01-25 13:18 the unfortunate truth is that bits do break. they're considered consumables for that reason. and a bad toolpath is pretty much guaranteed to kill your bits. also with "industrial" mills. 2014-01-25 13:20 yeah, since even with industrial mills you can have an inapt programmer that runs the tool into the wall with full X speed 2014-01-25 13:20 SCNR 2014-01-25 13:20 cya 2014-01-25 13:20 hehe ;-) 2014-01-25 13:21 good that my mill isn't all that fast. so at least i don't have to worry about it punching through walls :) 2014-01-25 13:21 * whitequark switches to #qi-hw 2014-01-25 13:21 "13:09 < wpwrak> compared to, say, building a 40 GW matter-antimatter reactor, i'm sure it's pretty easy ;-) 2014-01-25 13:21 ... yeah 2014-01-25 13:25 oh. and i see how i broke the drill. the same problem. bit was too low. low enough to try to "drill" sideways. not the best idea with a 0.35 mm bit. i was very lucky that the other one survived, since it had also been slithering over the surface. 2014-01-25 13:25 all of which makes me wonder what the heck is happening with those toolpaths .. 2014-01-25 13:26 xiangfu has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 2014-01-25 13:27 xiangfu has joined #qi-hardware 2014-01-25 13:31 http://video.tu-clausthal.de/film/32.html yes, indeed much simpler than even a flux capacitor 2014-01-25 13:44 check 24:06 ! 2014-01-25 13:45 dos11 has joined #qi-hardware 2014-01-25 13:45 dos1 has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 2014-01-25 13:46 xiangfu has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 2014-01-25 13:46 http://wstaw.org/m/2014/01/25/plasma-desktopSy3389.png 2014-01-25 13:46 WielkiTost has joined #qi-hardware 2014-01-25 13:46 dos11 has quit [Disconnected by services] 2014-01-25 13:46 WielkiTost is now known as dos1 2014-01-25 13:46 you see DMS have a wide range of possible mounting situations 2014-01-25 13:47 I doubt a CNC mill has not a single suitable lever or bracket to glue a DMS on it 2014-01-25 13:48 hmm 2014-01-25 13:48 * whitequark is reading http://www.cnccookbook.com/CCCNCMillFeedsSpeeds.htm 2014-01-25 13:48 jvalleroy has quit [Quit: Leaving] 2014-01-25 13:48 that looks hugely complicated, not to mention my mill doesn't really allow to set spindle speed in predictable way... 2014-01-25 13:50 jvalleroy has joined #qi-hardware 2014-01-25 13:50 it's all trial and error ... 2014-01-25 13:56 xiangfu has joined #qi-hardware 2014-01-25 13:59 nicksydney: (bitcoin) I'm using it moderately often 2014-01-25 14:17 yet another probably easily installable sensor design consists of two lasers precisely monitoring the position and thus bending of the tool shaft itself 2014-01-25 14:18 BOM for electronic components: ~20$ 2014-01-25 14:20 ask whitequark to share knowledge he acquired with his maglev 2014-01-25 14:21 ooh, oops. That been with a hallsensor, not with lasers 2014-01-25 14:21 iirc 2014-01-25 14:21 yeah hall 2014-01-25 14:24 DocScrutinizer05, what's that plasma thing? 2014-01-25 14:24 plasmathing? 2014-01-25 14:24 http://wstaw.org/m/2014/01/25/plasma-desktopSy3389.png 2014-01-25 14:24 err, KDE desktop? 2014-01-25 14:25 ha, I thought that picture represented some sort of plasma apparatus 2014-01-25 14:25 the only way I managed to do a "photo" out of that YT video 2014-01-25 14:25 http://video.tu-clausthal.de/film/32.html 2014-01-25 14:26 really interesting footage starts at ~32:00 2014-01-25 14:27 DocScrutinizer05: it's not youtube 2014-01-25 14:27 the tool in that "plasma" looks like a wrench or sth like that 2014-01-25 14:27 jwplayer rather, and video is hosted likely by same guy who owns the website 2014-01-25 14:27 or a part of a diesel motor maybe 2014-01-25 14:29 it looks like quite massive steel, which I thought was great to demonstrate a few particular aspects of DMS usage 2014-01-25 14:31 with DMS you theoretically can probe the streching of brooklin bridge steel cables when a car drives over the bridge 2014-01-25 14:33 I admit that for this usecase the instrumentation amp you need to read out the DMS will cost a multitaude of wpwrak's whole CNC mill 2014-01-25 14:39 dos1 has quit [Quit: Kabum!] 2014-01-25 14:41 anyway the longer I think about it the more I'm in favor of the laser probes directly controlling the tool bit shaft 2014-01-25 14:45 an environment full of dust and often oil is certainly ideal for precision optical measurements ;-) 2014-01-25 15:10 aaah right, good point 2014-01-25 15:13 so a strictly mechanical sensor is the method of choice then. an Alu lever like L with a exactly fitting hole for the bit shaft in the foot of the L, and the vertical part equipped with DMS 2014-01-25 15:15 or even make that brass, since steel on brass doesn't need any lubrification 2014-01-25 15:16 as long as your tool bits all have same shaft diameter... 2014-01-25 15:17 for the stronger ones you can simply swivel the sensor L out of the way 2014-01-25 15:21 you could even auto-adjust the advance then, so the mill slows down when the material to mill is harder and takes longer to grind away 2014-01-25 15:23 and the control software could define where to expect force load on the tooling bit so the advance simply slows down, and where no force is expected so any force detected would be considered a major error and causes immediate emergency stop 2014-01-25 15:28 obviously the maximum advance speed has to be limited to allow for the advance done during maximum steep ramp-down of steppers (plural! sqrt(X^2 + Y^2) ) needs no longer and advance distance than the maximum the tool bit may get bent before damage kicks in 2014-01-25 15:28 s/and /any / 2014-01-25 15:28 DocScrutinizer05 meant: "obviously the maximum advance speed has to be limited to allow for the advance done during maximum steep ramp-down of steppers (plural! sqrt(X^2 + Y^2) ) needs no longer any advance distance than the maximum the tool bit may get bent before damage kicks in" 2014-01-25 15:29 or you could perform software verification 2014-01-25 15:29 which is what high-end CAM software is doing 2014-01-25 15:29 you always do that 2014-01-25 15:29 no, I mean simulate the entire process in 3D 2014-01-25 15:29 with precise models of the mill and workpiece 2014-01-25 15:30 the problems arrise when your verification isn't in line with reality 2014-01-25 15:30 sure, it's different approaches with different flaws 2014-01-25 15:31 ooh, you say that software does NOT do any simulation of where's material and where's not? 2014-01-25 15:31 pathetic 2014-01-25 15:32 not usually, no 2014-01-25 15:32 unless you pay a lot, and I mean a LOT of $$$, the software and machine just do as they're told 2014-01-25 15:32 incredible 2014-01-25 15:32 to be fair, it is not an easy problem 2014-01-25 15:32 but I agree 2014-01-25 15:33 kinda sucks, especially when the result of an error is not a segfault but a broken mill :] 2014-01-25 15:33 yes 2014-01-25 15:33 exactly 2014-01-25 15:34 and tbh the basic problem seems to be simpler than e.g. map navigation 2014-01-25 15:34 and open-source CNC software seems to be basically in its infancy 2014-01-25 15:34 EMC2, which is one of the best specimens, is basically a stepper driver with gcode interpreter 2014-01-25 15:34 yeah, sounds about correct then 2014-01-25 15:34 pathetic :/ 2014-01-25 15:34 :-( 2014-01-25 15:34 * whitequark opens an editor 2014-01-25 15:34 :p 2014-01-25 15:35 also look at this: 2014-01-25 15:35 http://www.cnccookbook.com/img/CNCCookbook/MillFeedsSpeeds/GibbsNoHSM.jpg 2014-01-25 15:35 which is a toolpath you could trivially get 2014-01-25 15:35 I mean, how hard could it be to create a 3D array of voxels and calculate if your tool runs thru empty or filled voxels? 2014-01-25 15:35 http://www.cnccookbook.com/img/CNCCookbook/MillFeedsSpeeds/GibbsHSM.jpg 2014-01-25 15:35 which is a toolpath you *should* use 2014-01-25 15:35 because it's much more optimized for stress and tool wear 2014-01-25 15:36 not to say faster 2014-01-25 15:36 I don't think any OSS tools can generate the #2 one... 2014-01-25 15:37 http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?Cam 2014-01-25 15:37 :-(( 2014-01-25 15:38 bbl 2014-01-25 15:39 the 2nd toolpath also produces a different cut 2014-01-25 15:39 seems like an approach with voxels and an intersection volume that mustn't exceed a certain threshold per time unit was pretty trivial to code, eh? 2014-01-25 15:39 if both are considered equivalent, then there's something wrong with the model already 2014-01-25 15:40 well, or sth wrong with the mechanical parameters like tool shape you imply 2014-01-25 15:40 you'd also have to make sure you don't move along existing walls. else you could get very different results depending whether you just touch the wall or not. 2014-01-25 15:41 obviously 2014-01-25 15:42 precisely predicting tool loads may be just too hard. then there's also contact with things that have been cut loose. sometimes you end up milling through them. they shouldn't provide a lot of resistance, but they'd certainly create some load. 2014-01-25 15:42 tool load is a pretty simple function of material grinded away per time unit, no? 2014-01-25 15:42 first approach 2014-01-25 15:43 and there's not supposed to be loose material usually 2014-01-25 15:43 yes, as a first approximation 2014-01-25 15:44 that's not already dust and removed by vacuum 2014-01-25 15:45 then you have of course material characteristics. also, tools wear out with time, so the load increases. not sure how significant that effect is. 2014-01-25 15:47 well, fine, then your software moves the model of the tool through the voxel space until it intersects with a number of populated/filled voxels that exceeds resp approaches the threshold constant you defined for allowed tool load, then the sw moves the tool to new position during the timespan your threshold been defined for, and marks the according voxels as empty/removed. Then go to start and do next loop 2014-01-25 15:48 and you should stay well below any such parameter range like caused by tool wear when defining your threshold 2014-01-25 15:49 sounds to me like a marginally modified floodfill algo 2014-01-25 15:49 should I register a sw patent? ;-P 2014-01-25 15:54 ((...make sure you don't move along existing walls)) you simply implement that by switching your model of tool bit to a oversized one, oversized just as much as the guard distance you want to keep to your walls, while same time you set threshold to zero 2014-01-25 15:55 so tool bit stays out of areas with material 2014-01-25 15:57 when your tool moved to new starting point of an active vector, you switch back to the working toolshape and threshold, and follow the vector while observing the above sketched algorithm 2014-01-25 15:58 given your voxels << accuracy of your CNC, I don't see how it could fail 2014-01-25 16:00 and obviously it creates the boolen var about "load expected" / "no load expected" en passant, for controlling the sensor operation mode between speed-reduction and emergency-full-stop 2014-01-25 16:02 for the sensor this would not only switch action taken when "overload" detected, but obviously also should reduce the threshold to ~0 for "no load expected" mode 2014-01-25 16:20 phew. so much effort. it's probably a lot cheaper to just buy a hundred spare bits ;-) 2014-01-25 16:20 (they're kinda expensive, USD 10-20 is not uncommon) 2014-01-25 16:21 arielenter has joined #qi-hardware 2014-01-25 16:27 wej has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 2014-01-25 16:28 wej has joined #qi-hardware 2014-01-25 16:36 btw, there are a lot of other more interesting improvements to mills. like a z sensor for automatic tool position calculation. 2014-01-25 16:37 xiangfu has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 2014-01-25 16:37 another things that would be useful for pcbs would be an automatic tool changer. that's hard, though. 2014-01-25 17:26 hmm, seems feasible 2014-01-25 17:27 well, you need another motor, for the mandril. if you have a fixed-size shaft then it's probably easier since you just have a screw to hold the bit in place 2014-01-25 17:28 actually I'd think it can't be hard, given you use a small permanent magnet in your drill chuck 2014-01-25 17:28 i think they use air. you may also need to blow it out since it may get a little stuck 2014-01-25 17:30 I'd move the chuck over the bit shaft and insert it - should stay in chuck thanks to permanent magnet. Then move chuck plus bit to a fixed rubber clutch. press chuck into clutch and operate the drill motor to close chuck 2014-01-25 17:31 you'd need a fairly precise spindle motor. but yes, why not. 2014-01-25 17:31 then to fasten, lift a 2mm from clutch and speed up rotation, then contact clutch with spinning chuck to fasten by momentum 2014-01-25 17:32 i smell burnt rubber ;-) 2014-01-25 17:32 open chuck by reverse operation of whole moves and procedure 2014-01-25 17:32 and how do you unto the permanent magnet ? 2014-01-25 17:32 #s/unto/undo/ 2014-01-25 17:32 with a stronger electromagnet in toolbit magazine 2014-01-25 17:33 thanks for asking, that saved me a half sentence on next post ;-) 2014-01-25 17:33 larsc: tried to enable dma bit in MSC_CMDAT register with: 2014-01-25 17:33 cmdat |= JZ_MMC_CMDAT_DMA_EN; 2014-01-25 17:33 writel(cmdat, host->base + JZ_REG_MMC_CMDAT); 2014-01-25 17:33 heh, i thought you may consider that approach :) 2014-01-25 17:34 well, you could make it moveable and use the mill to shift it. that way you don't need one for each bit - or a huge monster that covers al the bits 2014-01-25 17:34 larsc: still not working: http://paste.debian.net/78322/, code diff is here: http://paste.debian.net/78321/ 2014-01-25 17:34 the latter 2014-01-25 17:35 pretty simple 2014-01-25 17:35 larsc: will come back and look into it later 2014-01-25 17:35 still, so much magnetism may not be great. especially since you also have magnetic dirt around your mill. (dunno where it comes from. just noticed recently when i used a magnetized tool in the area.) 2014-01-25 17:36 even easier: use a bit holder magazine that holds the bits from side and is open to one side. Like a magnetig knife holder board in kitchen 2014-01-25 17:37 attach bit: down and left. Detach bit: right and up 2014-01-25 17:37 ah yes, good idea 2014-01-25 17:38 and you don't need a magnetic magazine. it can just use springs. 2014-01-25 17:38 yes 2014-01-25 17:40 like those, just much smaller ;-) http://www.ebay.de/itm/2-Stuck-Prax-Geratehalter-Stielstarken-ca-2-5-cm-Besenhalter-Werkzeughalter/231001217535?_trksid=p2047675.m1850&_trkparms=aid%3D222002%26algo%3DSIC.FIT%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D20080%26meid%3D4370683539274510340%26pid%3D100011%26prg%3D9031%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D5%26sd%3D300825661345%26 2014-01-25 17:40 eeek what an URL 2014-01-25 17:40 sorry 2014-01-25 17:41 broom holder ;-)) 2014-01-25 17:41 yeah 2014-01-25 17:42 maybe for tiny bits a simple silicone or rubber block with slots already works great 2014-01-25 17:42 V shaped slots 2014-01-25 17:42 well, kinda 2014-01-25 17:43 rather Å shaped 2014-01-25 17:44 i was thinking of this: http://www.elektrotresen.de/Sonstige/Houben-Federstahlklammer-100442.html 2014-01-25 17:45 you get the same kind also as tool holders and such 2014-01-25 17:45 yeah, probably also "just works" 2014-01-25 17:46 so, tool changer isn't THAT impossible, eh? :-D 2014-01-25 17:47 i'm still a bit dubious about the mandril 2014-01-25 17:48 but at least the holder looks quite feasible indeed 2014-01-25 17:50 if you don't like the smell of rubber, you use a ring wrench alike thing to grip into a "nut" between your chuck and motor, and you rotate that thing to support/turn the motor axis while you keep the chuck fixed in some rubber clutch or other stuff. An old powertool may be the right motor for that 2014-01-25 17:50 what's a mandril? isn't it a sort of monkey? 2014-01-25 17:51 ~dict mandril 2014-01-25 17:51 meh 2014-01-25 17:52 http://www.google.de/images?q=mandril :-D 2014-01-25 17:53 ding also says "Dorn" 2014-01-25 17:54 which still leaves me no wiser 2014-01-25 17:55 do you refer to the drill chuck or the tool bit shaft? 2014-01-25 17:55 hmm, if there was an AAAAA battery size, it would just about be perfect for this :) AAAA may be close enough, though. 7.7 mm diameter while those bits have rings of 7.5 mm 2014-01-25 17:56 wut? 7.5mm shaft diameter? 2014-01-25 17:56 and you broke those? :-o 2014-01-25 17:56 (mandril) this: http://www.motoresenv.com/2006/Fotos/dremel_mandril.jpg 2014-01-25 17:57 no, the plastic ring around the shaft is 7.5 mm :) 2014-01-25 17:57 hmm, this is a drill chuck according to ding 2014-01-25 17:58 plastic ring? I have no idea what those things look like 2014-01-25 17:58 the shaft is 1/8 in, 3.175 mm. but the tip is something like 32 mil (8.1 mm) 2014-01-25 17:58 of the chuck? 2014-01-25 17:58 like this: http://www.lpkfusa.com/store/pages/ProductDetail.aspx?cat=11%2f39&cid=39&pid=218 2014-01-25 17:59 aah, I see 2014-01-25 17:59 the expensive ones 2014-01-25 18:00 never seen such plastic ring 2014-01-25 18:00 is it for magazine? 2014-01-25 18:00 or for adjusting height? 2014-01-25 18:01 for both 2014-01-25 18:01 the plastic ring adds hardly to the price :) 2014-01-25 18:01 err, it probably indeed does, quite a bit 2014-01-25 18:02 since it's supposed to be wery exactly placed and shaped, and fixed to the shaft 2014-01-25 18:02 when i look a prices in shops that have both, they're very similar 2014-01-25 18:02 ok 2014-01-25 18:03 I guess the price is just determined by how much they *can* ask for it, not how much they *need* to 2014-01-25 18:04 hehe :) 2014-01-25 18:05 ooh, 10/pkg 2014-01-25 18:05 I already went "WTF" 2014-01-25 18:05 still... 2014-01-25 18:05 e.g. here, the bits are some USD 5-15 each, and a plastic ring adds USD 0.5: http://www.lpkfusa.com/Store/default.aspx 2014-01-25 18:05 yeah ;-) 2014-01-25 18:07 and your doubt is about what exactly? 2014-01-25 18:07 about the chuck of your mill? 2014-01-25 18:07 quite possibly that might have to change for a better suited one 2014-01-25 18:08 oh, certainly. my mill has a fixed-size one. it's basically a pipe with a hole on the side for a screw 2014-01-25 18:08 EEEK! 2014-01-25 18:08 why ? 2014-01-25 18:09 how's tool supposed to be centric? 2014-01-25 18:09 dunno if it's worse than with an "iris" type of mandril 2014-01-25 18:09 there isn't exactly a lot of play. just enough to let the piece move 2014-01-25 18:10 the dremel one you referred to has 3 slots and is definitely made to run concentric 2014-01-25 18:10 sure. but this one is basically a piston. a piston that you can lock in place with a screw coming from the side. 2014-01-25 18:10 pistons generally are pretty concentric, too :) 2014-01-25 18:11 only when they fit exceptionally tight 2014-01-25 18:11 but yes, the screw must push it a little off-center 2014-01-25 18:11 but that may still be more accurate than one of those self-centering mandrils. 2014-01-25 18:12 jvalleroy has quit [Quit: Leaving] 2014-01-25 18:12 you're talking about chuck on motor axis, or about tool shaft in chuck? 2014-01-25 18:12 the things that holds the shaft of the bit 2014-01-25 18:13 get a working one from dremel 2014-01-25 18:13 http://www.motoresenv.com/2006/Fotos/dremel_mandril.jpg 2014-01-25 18:14 should mount on your motor axis or into your existing mandril/chuck 2014-01-25 18:15 I can't see how to fasten a screw automatically during tool change 2014-01-25 18:15 o.O 2014-01-25 18:15 i have that one on my dremel. the mechanical interface is quite different from my mill, though. e.g., the machine side of that mandril is threaded on the inside 2014-01-25 18:15 weird scary design 2014-01-25 18:16 ;-) 2014-01-25 18:16 yeah, that's how chucks usually are mounted 2014-01-25 18:17 even for turn-right/turn-left powertools 2014-01-25 18:17 you could grab it with a U-shaped structure on that part below the double ring 2014-01-25 18:17 something like this: http://www.sanvit.com/de/zubehoer/werkzeug-montage/rms-schluessel-30-32-36-40 2014-01-25 18:18 (it's designed just for such use) 2014-01-25 18:19 yeah, probably the best way to carefully insert the chuck base into such fixed wrench tool by moving mill sideways while carefully and slooooowly spinning the drill motor 2014-01-25 18:19 but you still need to have very fine control of the spindle motor. also of torque because you don't want to tighten it more than you can loosen it after 2014-01-25 18:19 or use a stepper motor for the spindle ;-) 2014-01-25 18:20 then attach the rubber clutch from below by pressing down the whole mill head and then rotate the rubber clutch with a slow powertool motor 2014-01-25 18:20 you and your rubber clutch ;-) 2014-01-25 18:20 if you have that you don't need it anymore 2014-01-25 18:21 (fine control) the motor spindle usually should run very easily, when operated by PWM controlled electric power 2014-01-25 18:25 let's hope whitequark reads all this. he'll be very motivated for a while to make his mill work better ;-) 2014-01-25 18:25 eventually he'll find a workflow he can live with and his enthusiasm for improving the tool itself will die down 2014-01-25 18:26 rubber clutch: http://www.ebay.de/itm/Modellbau-Modellflug-Anlasser-Starter-12V-/191045851743?pt=RC_Modellbau&hash=item2c7b385a5f 2014-01-25 18:27 http://www.ebay.de/itm/210-0011-Hype-Anlasser-Power-Starter-12V/161051940694?rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222002%26algo%3DSIC.FIT%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D287%26meid%3D4371423750551683661%26pid%3D100005%26prg%3D1073%26rk%3D2%26rkt%3D2%26sd%3D191045851743%26 2014-01-25 18:28 the motor is too fast and too weak, the clutch seems pretty much exactly what you'd need 2014-01-25 18:28 i kinda doubt they're designed for significant stress 2014-01-25 18:29 they are designed for RC gasoline motors up to 10ccm 2014-01-25 18:30 thoes need quite some force to turn them 2014-01-25 18:30 those* 2014-01-25 18:30 problem with that exact build of clutch: no space for the tool bit 2014-01-25 18:31 wpwrak: (for a while) hehehe, exactly 2014-01-25 18:31 you probably want to build your own steel pipe and just insert the rubber ring 2014-01-25 18:31 reading the backlog now 2014-01-25 18:32 or you find or modify a chuck so it allows another wrench on head nut to turn it 2014-01-25 18:33 you could glue a nut "around" it, that the chuck fits into 2014-01-25 18:34 (automated tool changer) don't like the idea 2014-01-25 18:34 then you can use a ring wrnch type of tool to turn the chuck nut 2014-01-25 18:34 sounds like waaay too much work and too fragile unless you're really good at designing this kind of things 2014-01-25 18:34 and I'm surely not 2014-01-25 18:34 the peak of my mechanical engineering capability is LEGO, and I'm not even very good at that 2014-01-25 18:36 I'm more interested in alternative heads. extrusor (yay, 3D printing, with way better mechanics than 99% of consumer shit), solder paste, maybe placement 2014-01-25 18:36 that's the right balance of complexity and benefit for me :) 2014-01-25 18:36 DocScrutinizer05: btw, check out OpenSCAM and HeeksCAD 2014-01-25 18:37 the former one is promising but not there yet 2014-01-25 18:37 the latter looks quite usable 2014-01-25 18:39 has heekscad come back from the dead ? 2014-01-25 18:39 he had abandoned it a while ago and told people to go to freecad instead 2014-01-25 18:39 https://code.google.com/p/heekscad/source/list 2014-01-25 18:39 some recent commits there 2014-01-25 18:40 and who gave you all those weird ideas like solderpaste and 3D printer?? dang, must be a geek 2014-01-25 18:40 DocScrutinizer05: either you or wpwrak 2014-01-25 18:40 (DMS video) veeery pedantic. but their soldering it some of the worst i've seen lately ;-) 2014-01-25 18:40 solderpaste was definitely yours 2014-01-25 18:40 ;-D 2014-01-25 18:41 anyway, I got the autotransformer 2014-01-25 18:41 cool 2014-01-25 18:41 heading home now 2014-01-25 18:41 one thing, it's 127V and the control block is rated 110V-120V 2014-01-25 18:42 (would shouting "why can't they use switchmode power supplies?!" in the air again be too excessive?) 2014-01-25 18:44 why can't those russians not order the 220 V version :) 2014-01-25 18:45 meh 2014-01-25 18:45 after all, the voltage was indicating in big and clear hanzi ;-) 2014-01-25 18:46