2014-01-20 00:12 kristianpaul has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 2014-01-20 00:14 kristianpaul has joined #qi-hardware 2014-01-20 00:16 arielenter has joined #qi-hardware 2014-01-20 00:23 arielenter has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 2014-01-20 00:30 uwe_ has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 2014-01-20 00:31 uwe_ has joined #qi-hardware 2014-01-20 01:35 dos1 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 2014-01-20 01:35 dos1 has joined #qi-hardware 2014-01-20 01:40 dos1 has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 2014-01-20 02:51 nicksydney: i don't think they did the neo900 layout yet. but you'd have to ask DocScrutinizer05 about that 2014-01-20 03:46 thairullin has joined #qi-hardware 2014-01-20 03:50 pcercuei has quit [Quit: dodo] 2014-01-20 04:14 thairullin has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 2014-01-20 04:51 wolfspraul has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 2014-01-20 04:53 wolfspraul has joined #qi-hardware 2014-01-20 05:40 no layout for Neo900 yet 2014-01-20 05:41 except the mech ver protos 2014-01-20 05:41 which I haven't even seen the new ones yet 2014-01-20 05:41 those took not too long 2014-01-20 05:42 I think Nikolaus said "one day" 2014-01-20 05:42 nicksydney has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 2014-01-20 05:42 nicksydney has joined #qi-hardware 2014-01-20 05:44 DocScrutinizer05: how long you reckon the proto version took to lay out the board and route ? was wondering how long a project as complex as neo will take to lay and route 2014-01-20 05:45 wpwrak: remember the olden days lantern http://www.catchoftheday.com.au/event/29210/product/vintage-style-12-led-lantern-231146 ... this is LED will be interesting to hack it to report power and how much battery left :) 2014-01-20 05:45 another 2 or 3 days 2014-01-20 05:46 depends on a few critical details 2014-01-20 05:47 layout+routing isn't that hard. The details that need to fit mechanically are the real headache 2014-01-20 05:47 DocScrutinizer05: 2-3 days by hand or mix auto routing ? 2014-01-20 05:48 we do autorouting mostly 2014-01-20 05:48 would be insane to route such stuff manually 2014-01-20 05:48 creating footprints however takes much time 2014-01-20 05:50 e.g. for the socket for the camera module 2014-01-20 05:52 making footprints is kinda fun with fped ;-) 2014-01-20 05:55 the hard bit it sometimes to "crack the code" of some drawings, especially complex mechanical parts (e.g., microsd card holders) 2014-01-20 05:58 but fped makes it really easy to actually "implement" a design. parametric cad is very useful for such things. 2014-01-20 05:59 wpwrak: when i get the chance will try to create a video for fped :) 2014-01-20 05:59 well, I'd think eagle has parametric cad too 2014-01-20 05:59 still creating the footprint e.g. for the modem takes half a day easily 2014-01-20 06:00 after all you need to label each single of the 144 pads 2014-01-20 06:00 DocScrutinizer05: doesn't the vendor (TI in neo900 case) provide footprint ? 2014-01-20 06:00 label ... in the footprint ? 2014-01-20 06:00 huh? the modem is made by Siemens 2014-01-20 06:00 don't they have systematic numbers ? 2014-01-20 06:01 o.O 2014-01-20 06:02 like... the systematic numbers on a CPU? 2014-01-20 06:02 i mean the pads. or do you mean schematics symbols instead of footprints ? 2014-01-20 06:03 a pin number is different thing than the pin label 2014-01-20 06:03 yes. but the layout shouldn't have labels 2014-01-20 06:03 i mean the footprint 2014-01-20 06:04 e.g., a 32-qfn footprint shouldn't care whether pin 5 is "USB_DP", "P0_2", "A17", "nRESET", or whatever the 2^\infty chips of that size may have on that pin 2014-01-20 06:04 what worth is a footprint that's unconnected to the schemitics? 2014-01-20 06:05 the schematics symbol should make that connection 2014-01-20 06:05 *sigh* 2014-01-20 06:05 CAD using component libraries 2014-01-20 06:06 EDA rather 2014-01-20 06:06 so you clone your 32-QFN for all the chips that have a 32-QFN package ? 2014-01-20 06:06 meh, need more coffee 2014-01-20 06:06 and if you want to edit something, you edit all the clones ? ;-) 2014-01-20 06:06 * DocScrutinizer05 headdesks 2014-01-20 06:06 look at the modem footprint 2014-01-20 06:08 like this ? page 3 of http://people.openmoko.org/werner/gta02-core/gta02-core-modules.pdf 2014-01-20 06:08 you have to zoom in to be able to read the ball numbers 2014-01-20 06:09 the corresponding symbol is on page 14 of http://people.openmoko.org/werner/gta02-core/gta02-core-bom-all.pdf 2014-01-20 06:10 or, maybe better, page 14 of http://people.openmoko.org/werner/gta02-core/gta02-core-expanded-all.pdf 2014-01-20 06:10 symbol defines label, pin number/name, signal type 2014-01-20 06:11 footprint defines the geometry of what goes on the PCB and the corresponding names. nice and clean. 2014-01-20 06:13 no, this http://wstaw.org/m/2014/01/20/plasma-desktopcD3389.png and this http://wstaw.org/m/2014/01/20/plasma-desktopQJ3389.png 2014-01-20 06:14 looks pretty much like the same sort of structure 2014-01-20 06:14 and in eagle, a component consists of footprint plus schematics symbol since both is tightly linked 2014-01-20 06:15 footprint would have P4, P5, ... 2014-01-20 06:15 know what? I have better things to do than to discuss linguistics with you 2014-01-20 06:15 symbol USB_DP -> P5, USB_DN -> P5, ... 2014-01-20 06:16 of course, in this case you probably don't have much reuse of the footprint. but for any more common packages there's no point in having signal names at the level of the footprint 2014-01-20 06:16 ;-) 2014-01-20 06:18 juts s/footprint/component library entry/g for my last 50 posts 2014-01-20 06:18 l8rs 2014-01-20 06:21 aah ;-) okay. then we're in agreement :) 2014-01-20 06:21 and for Eagle, you even want to define properties for each signal, like input|output|voltage|whatnot 2014-01-20 06:21 for DRC 2014-01-20 06:22 err ERC 2014-01-20 06:23 ah, good. kicad is a bit primitive there. 2014-01-20 06:23 it has input/output/etc. but not voltages or such 2014-01-20 06:26 anyway you do all this for each pad of the footprint(sic!) while you draw it, basically. The schem symbol is drawing a rectangle then, and a bit of lable pushing to the right and left side 2014-01-20 06:26 done in 10 minutes 2014-01-20 06:26 label pushing 2014-01-20 06:30 mech eval boards were made 50% for proving the modem footprint 2014-01-20 06:31 and yes, again footprint since it's the footprint that assigns a signal to a pad 2014-01-20 06:32 and Nik missed that one of the status signal outputs is OpenCollector and connected it to basis of an LED driver transistor 2014-01-20 06:32 which reminds me to short that transistor C-B 2014-01-20 06:33 fun, my first rework on Neo900 2014-01-20 06:33 (footprint) hmm, so is there then another layer for the geometry ? or do you have countless clones of, say, 0603 ? 2014-01-20 06:34 yes, I think they are countless clones 2014-01-20 06:34 like in every CAD 2014-01-20 06:34 urgh 2014-01-20 06:35 I never really bothered. When I need to do a mass edit of a e.g. standard 0603 footprint, I guess I find a sort of global find&replace command 2014-01-20 06:36 heh. yes, that's what you need then. with a filter of what exactly you want changed. elegant ;-) 2014-01-20 06:36 but maybe there's even an abstraction layer in between 2014-01-20 06:36 dunno 2014-01-20 06:36 that would help 2014-01-20 06:37 anyway I never want to change all 0603 2014-01-20 06:37 I maybe want to change the 0603 footprint geometry for one component series 2014-01-20 06:38 think of things like pcb making improving and you want a thinner line on the silk screen. that would be a "safe" change to apply everywhere 2014-01-20 06:38 I mean, how sane would it be to have same footprint geometry template/macro for 0603R and 0603 LED? 2014-01-20 06:38 generally works for me :) 2014-01-20 06:39 well, we have 0603 and 0603P - the latter is polarized 2014-01-20 06:39 yeah, since you don't know about stuff like "no traces area" under the component, in kicad 2014-01-20 06:39 of course, if you want a little LED symbol in silk screen or such, then you need a specific footprint 2014-01-20 06:40 yeah, keepout areas in footprints could be useful indeed 2014-01-20 06:41 could be that this already exists in the depths of the new layout format. there's a glacially slow transition of file formats in kicad from the old "simple" formats to more extensible ones, along with a bunch of new features 2014-01-20 06:42 alas, the transition is so sluggish that it would be a pain to try to keep up. so i'm just waiting until some major blocks are finished before digging into making use of them 2014-01-20 06:43 fped has a somewhat more abstract view anyway. you basically define geometries and then it combines things into the "objects" kicad uses. e.g., pad + hole = plated through-hole (unless you specifically ask for something else) 2014-01-20 06:49 nicksydney has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 2014-01-20 06:49 yeah, I think similar multilevel macros are available in eagle too 2014-01-20 06:50 nicksydney has joined #qi-hardware 2014-01-20 06:52 maybe worth checking out the free trial version of eagle, just to have a peep into neighbor's garden? 2014-01-20 07:02 http://wstaw.org/m/2014/01/20/plasma-desktopgu3389.png 2014-01-20 07:08 http://wstaw.org/m/2014/01/20/plasma-desktopus3389.png 2014-01-20 07:14 http://wstaw.org/m/2014/01/20/plasma-desktopUa3389.png 2014-01-20 07:17 wolfspraul has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 2014-01-20 07:19 http://wstaw.org/m/2014/01/20/plasma-desktopqD3389.png 2014-01-20 07:34 jekhor has joined #qi-hardware 2014-01-20 07:54 dos1 has joined #qi-hardware 2014-01-20 07:56 looks pretty similar to what we have in kicad. have you ever used it ? 2014-01-20 07:58 Eagle is the only pcb software I used in linux 2014-01-20 07:59 non-Free is bad for your karma :) 2014-01-20 07:59 I only used tango in dos, and eagle in linux, in fact. All, more than 15 years ago. The demo version was bound to a board size, which was enough for my needs. 2014-01-20 08:01 dos1 has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 2014-01-20 08:01 wpwrak: I met a grandgrandaughter of Yrigoyen, last november. 2014-01-20 08:02 it feels like something important. :) 2014-01-20 08:05 ;-)) 2014-01-20 08:06 i live on a street named after him :) (i could almost say "avenue", but it changes type a few meters from my place) 2014-01-20 08:07 she was lied by her family, that she was such an important person 2014-01-20 08:08 she discovered that only after the dead of her parents, by finding impossible information in her family archives. 2014-01-20 08:09 (like her grandmother giving birth to his father at 65) 2014-01-20 08:10 heh ;-) 2014-01-20 08:11 she contracted a professional genealogy research, and they found the real path 2014-01-20 08:11 but what did they lie about ? so they didn't tell her she was a descentant of yrigoyen ? why hide that ? 2014-01-20 08:11 it seems they were very ashamed of having bounds with Yrigoyen 2014-01-20 08:12 by her description, she felt like the 'black sheep' in a fascistoid family 2014-01-20 08:13 odd. he seems to have been a pretty decent president. 2014-01-20 08:15 I guess there was diversity of opinions about that :) 2014-01-20 08:15 and not exactly a fascist either ... 2014-01-20 08:15 sure, hence the hidding 2014-01-20 08:15 The fascistoid were her parents, not Yrigoyen 2014-01-20 08:15 ah, i see 2014-01-20 08:16 yes, the fascist may rightfully have considered him a sub-par president :) 2014-01-20 08:17 on Saturday I released a new 'filegive' btw. Better and better. 2014-01-20 08:23 it's time to make a "fileget" that uses the NSA infrastructure to also acquire files you're not supposed to be able to get :) 2014-01-20 08:24 :) 2014-01-20 08:26 In fact I dislike all about 'security'. I find it very very boring. 2014-01-20 09:13 wej has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 2014-01-20 09:17 wej has joined #qi-hardware 2014-01-20 09:42 jekhor has quit [Ping timeout: 253 seconds] 2014-01-20 10:12 lekernel has joined #qi-hardware 2014-01-20 10:57 wolfspraul has joined #qi-hardware 2014-01-20 11:18 xiangfu has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 2014-01-20 11:20 xiangfu has joined #qi-hardware 2014-01-20 11:38 WTF Yrigoyen 2014-01-20 11:39 a former president of argentina, Hipolito Yrigoyen. i live on a street that's named after him. 2014-01-20 11:46 and, any special reason to mention that today? 2014-01-20 11:47 I mean, I probably don't live in a street named after Saint Kanal, but if it was I'd wonder why to talk about it 2014-01-20 11:48 did you publish your adress recently? 2014-01-20 11:49 * DocScrutinizer05 suspects that viric noticed the name of street where wpwrak lives, but then why would wpwrak state again that he does. 2014-01-20 11:50 viric met a descendent of yrigoyen and was impressed by that. not sure if he knew that i live on that street. 2014-01-20 11:51 hmm, the waitress in "my" cafe a few years back been the daughter of our ministry of wealth 2014-01-20 11:51 errr health 2014-01-20 11:53 it actually eventually felt a bit strange, when the mother drove on backseat of those bulletproof sedans and the daughter worked in a (hippie) cafe 2014-01-20 11:54 nice ;-) 2014-01-20 11:54 and would be even nicer if she had been the daughter of a "minister of wealth" :) 2014-01-20 11:54 hehe 2014-01-20 11:54 I had no idea about the street 2014-01-20 11:56 seems in my case mother and daughter also were not too fond about each other ;-). I'm pretty sure about the daughter 2014-01-20 11:58 well, at least she didn't like to talk about her mother 2014-01-20 11:58 probably different political party 2014-01-20 11:58 ;-P 2014-01-20 11:59 I don't think her mother lied to her though, about her own job and political prefrences 2014-01-20 12:00 ;-) 2014-01-20 12:01 http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ulla_Schmidt 2014-01-20 12:09 oops sorry - http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renate_Schmidt 2014-01-20 12:13 so no minister of wealth/health, only "Vizepräsidentin des Deutschen Bundestages" and vice chief of SPD fraction of Deutscher Bundestag 2014-01-20 12:16 HAH! >>1961 - 1980: Programmiererin, Systemanalytikerin<< 2014-01-20 12:25 dandon_ has joined #qi-hardware 2014-01-20 12:29 dandon has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 2014-01-20 12:29 dandon_ is now known as dandon 2014-01-20 12:46 pcercuei has joined #qi-hardware 2014-01-20 12:50 DocScrutinizer05, wpwrak: does AgO actually conduct as well as pure Ag? 2014-01-20 12:50 I heard that quite a lot of times, that Ag is used for contact coating for this reason 2014-01-20 12:50 as the oxide won't heat up more than the pure metal, therefore not causing contact welding 2014-01-20 12:50 but I can't actually find any sources to back that claim. 2014-01-20 12:59 never heard that 2014-01-20 13:00 plausible though 2014-01-20 13:01 the anode pads on LCD are what? SnO2 ? 2014-01-20 13:02 dunno, also silver-metal oxides conduct quite well apparently 2014-01-20 13:02 found this: http://jes.ecsdl.org/content/143/9/2741.abstract 2014-01-20 13:02 AgO films have ρ of ~12 Ωcm 2014-01-20 13:03 for copper: http://www.researchgate.net/publication/40804795_Electrical_resistivity_of_copper_oxide_thin_films_prepared_by_reactive_magnetron_sputtering/file/9fcfd5107e1bc6eeac.pdf 2014-01-20 13:03 CuO films: ρ of 10⁴-10⁶ Ωcm 2014-01-20 14:06 lekernel has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 2014-01-20 14:15 jekhor has joined #qi-hardware 2014-01-20 14:19 lekernel has joined #qi-hardware 2014-01-20 14:42 wej has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 2014-01-20 14:42 wej has joined #qi-hardware 2014-01-20 16:41 arielenter has joined #qi-hardware 2014-01-20 16:54 elkotryas has joined #qi-hardware 2014-01-20 17:10 elkotryas has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 2014-01-20 17:11 dos1 has joined #qi-hardware 2014-01-20 17:25 qwebirc96208 has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 2014-01-20 17:29 jekhor has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 2014-01-20 19:15 jekhor has joined #qi-hardware 2014-01-20 19:44 voronok has joined #qi-hardware 2014-01-20 19:45 voronok has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 2014-01-20 20:02 tulena has joined #qi-hardware 2014-01-20 20:28 wej has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 2014-01-20 20:35 wej has joined #qi-hardware 2014-01-20 21:26 Some crazy person just gave robots their own Internet - http://www.dvice.com/2014-1-15/some-crazy-person-just-gave-robots-their-own-internet 2014-01-20 21:29 such sensationalistic bullshit 2014-01-20 21:44 totally crazy 2014-01-20 21:44 ;) 2014-01-20 21:47 new EUR 19.98 -- Arietta G25 -- http://www.acmesystems.it/arietta .. interesting 2014-01-20 21:48 it's not exactly impressive 2014-01-20 21:49 whitequark: which part you think is not impressive ? is it the speed of MCU ? 2014-01-20 21:50 boards based on Allwinner have much nicer specs with comparable price 2014-01-20 21:50 the bang for your buck 2014-01-20 21:51 (is not that impressive) 2014-01-20 21:54 A10 boards are usually 2x or so more expensive, but when you add the WiFi module, the difference shrinks considerably 2014-01-20 21:54 allwinner may be harder to source and to get docs. do they publish them now ? 2014-01-20 21:55 and A10 boards almost always have ethernet, wifi, hdmi, and all other goodies 2014-01-20 21:55 wpwrak: (harder to source) based on the amount of projects using their chips, appears that it's easy 2014-01-20 21:55 (docs) rz2k would know firsthand 2014-01-20 21:55 !seen rz2k 2014-01-20 21:55 whitequark, rz2k (~rz2k@188.244.38.171) was last seen quitting #qi-hardware 1 day 1 hour 25 minutes ago (19.01. 20:30) stating "" after spending 4 hours 2 minutes there. 2014-01-20 21:56 he works with Allwinner boards and is quite pleased with them afaik. 2014-01-20 21:58 the atmel is available from digi-key. that's a big advantage. wish they had more of the "deep asia" products. 2014-01-20 21:59 http://www.aliexpress.com/item/wholesale-A10-chip-ALL-WINNER-TECH-A10-bga-chips-for-HD-Video-processing-chip-C4091CA-2531/919723155.html 2014-01-20 22:00 whitequark: (AllWinner) no they don't publish the docs .. even for their current Octa Core they don't .... but Tom Cubie might have access to it as he is planning a board for it 2014-01-20 22:00 tulena has quit [K-Lined] 2014-01-20 22:01 or in US: https://www.olimex.com/Products/Components/IC/ 2014-01-20 22:01 whitequark: if you take the aliexpress route you have to verify the vendor and maybe their supply chain. or else you may some day get a box of fake parts. no fun. 2014-01-20 22:01 you can even get them in LQFP! 2014-01-20 22:02 "2 Pravda St." -- US ? ;-) 2014-01-20 22:02 they're in bulgaria 2014-01-20 22:02 eh? 2014-01-20 22:02 you should be able to recognize your former comrades ;-) 2014-01-20 22:02 oh, I always thought Olimex was an US company. either way 2014-01-20 22:02 they're not the ones to screw you over 2014-01-20 22:02 no, they're definitely good guys 2014-01-20 22:03 didn't know they're now selling chips. that's nice. 2014-01-20 22:05 alas, no data sheets there either 2014-01-20 22:05 whitequark: rockchip is coming to the surface fast and furious too .. competing head to head with AllWinner 2014-01-20 22:05 wpwrak: there's quite some docs: http://linux-sunxi.org/Category:A10_Register_guide 2014-01-20 22:06 also: http://dl.linux-sunxi.org/A10/ 2014-01-20 22:07 http://dl.linux-sunxi.org/A13/ has what appears to be a proper reference manual 2014-01-20 22:07 oh, A10 too. 2014-01-20 22:07 if we use Intel chips they will pay us to do it now -- http://news.cnet.com/8301-1001_3-57617440-92/behind-in-tablets-intel-pays-firms-to-use-its-chips/?part=rss&subj=news&tag=title 2014-01-20 22:08 user manual ... decrypted ;-) 2014-01-20 22:08 nicksydney: that's a pretty strong reason to not use Intel chips 2014-01-20 22:08 I mean, if they were any good, why'd Intel pay? ;) 2014-01-20 22:08 wpwrak: I guess Allwinner is fine with that :D 2014-01-20 22:09 good stuff, thanks ! 2014-01-20 22:11 I'm pretty sure it omits some interesting parts... GPU ;) 2014-01-20 22:12 hmm, some things are seriously undocumented, though. e.g., the SD3.0 controller 2014-01-20 22:12 it's just like ingenic isn't it? 2014-01-20 22:13 ingenic is fairly complete. sd/mmc is definitely there, and in great detail. 2014-01-20 22:13 I think audio was lacking. something surely was 2014-01-20 22:14 also this: https://github.com/OLIMEX/OLINUXINO/tree/master/HARDWARE 2014-01-20 22:15 https://twitter.com/rz2k/status/425390792350633984 2014-01-20 22:15 good, so they have found SD somewhere 2014-01-20 22:16 likely in allwinner source drops 2014-01-20 22:16 yeah, that sounds like a likely source 2014-01-20 22:17 whitequark: like that....if you can't get a hold of the person in IRC .. tweet that person not email them :) 2014-01-20 22:17 well I knew he was on twitter 2014-01-20 22:24 wpwrak: are you on twitter ? 2014-01-20 22:26 wpwrak: thinking of making with AllWinner A10 something like this http://www.warpboard.org/ :) 2014-01-20 22:26 was once, but only briefly 2014-01-20 22:28 wpwrak: aww....what changed ? 2014-01-20 22:28 wpwrak: do you follow arm-netbook mailing list / 2014-01-20 22:30 whitequark: do you play with any AllWinner or Rockchip board ? 2014-01-20 22:30 nope 2014-01-20 22:30 I prefer smaller chips to play with 2014-01-20 22:32 (twitter) didn't really find it useful 2014-01-20 22:33 (arm-netbook) nope 2014-01-20 22:33 twitter is... an acquired taste :) 2014-01-20 22:33 and most of the lists i'm subscribed to i hardly even look at ;-) 2014-01-20 22:37 whitequark: when smaller in what sense ? 2014-01-20 22:37 wpwrak: i'm sure qi-hardware is not one of those "list i don't look at" :) 2014-01-20 22:38 nicksydney: less complex. cortexen-m instead of cortexen-a. 2014-01-20 22:41 whitequark: cool...what board you got ? 2014-01-20 22:43 nicksydney: there's stm32's discovery boards and maple leaf, and a bunch of custom ones for various tasks 2014-01-20 22:44 also, with cortexen-m being much easier to design for and assemble, there's less focus on a board as a self-contained component 2014-01-20 22:45 i have one of this http://www.cutedigi.com/development-tools/arm-cortex-development-board/arm-cortex-m3-mini-stm32-dev-board-2-4-tft-lcd-touchscreen.html 2014-01-20 22:45 yeah ever since i found anelok i have a great fond for M0 now :).. before I was into M3 2014-01-20 22:45 the package size impress me 2014-01-20 22:46 * whitequark cringes at comic sans ms 2014-01-20 22:46 lekernel has quit [Quit: Leaving] 2014-01-20 22:46 package size? m3 comes into tiny packages as well 2014-01-20 22:48 i mean M0 is very small compared to M3 2014-01-20 22:48 M3 is bit bigger no ? 2014-01-20 22:48 unless if you look at Energy Micro chip..they are damn small even for M3 2014-01-20 22:48 SiLabs they are called now sorry :) 2014-01-20 22:49 it's a smaller core in the sense it uses slightly less silicon, but nothing in m3 really requires much bigger packages 2014-01-20 22:49 package size today is determined by the pin count, not core size 2014-01-20 22:51 wej has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 2014-01-20 22:53 wej has joined #qi-hardware 2014-01-20 22:53 ahh ok 2014-01-20 22:53 the more pin count the bigger the package size are 2014-01-20 22:53 i like BGA it's very tiny BUT it's a pain to solder 2014-01-20 22:54 and a pain to make boards for. can you even have BGA with two-layer boards? 2014-01-20 22:54 qfn-48 can be pretty tiny too 2014-01-20 22:54 yeah qfn is the best bet next to QFP 2014-01-20 22:54 still need to learn how to solder QFN 2014-01-20 22:54 :0 2014-01-20 22:55 have you done QFN soldering before ? 2014-01-20 22:55 yep 2014-01-20 22:56 both with soldering iron and hot air 2014-01-20 22:56 can be a little tricky, but not much more tricky than say lqfp 2014-01-20 22:56 less chance for solder bridges, but harder to place properly 2014-01-20 22:57 jekhor has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 2014-01-20 22:58 will be interesting to go through the process of doing it myself when i get the KL chip 2014-01-20 23:06 viric has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 2014-01-20 23:06 viric has joined #qi-hardware 2014-01-20 23:08 wpwrak: for flashing to anelok you use OpenOCD right ? forgot if we have a doc for it ? 2014-01-20 23:11 mknight has joined #qi-hardware 2014-01-20 23:11 MKRAND - A Quantum Cellular Randomness Well : http://www.tag.md/public/mkrand-TA1.tar.gz 2014-01-20 23:11 mknight has left #qi-hardware [#qi-hardware] 2014-01-20 23:15 nicksydney: no, i use the file-based flasher of the frdm-kl25z board 2014-01-20 23:15 lost there..so how is the pin configuration between anelok and the kl25z board ? 2014-01-20 23:16 the board contains a programmer circuit. that circuit can either program the chip on the board or one you connect on the outside. 2014-01-20 23:17 i use that programmer circuit. the SWD is some jtag variant and therefore a bit complex, and support for it in openocd and such doesn't seem to be very smooth just yet. 2014-01-20 23:17 so i took the approach that would get me results in the fastest way. eventually i'll want to get rid of the board. but there's no rush. 2014-01-20 23:18 also, i can make a dfu boot loader for the kl25, which would eliminate the board for anything but the boot loader updates (which should be very rare, typically only once in the life of a board) 2014-01-20 23:22 dandon has quit [Quit: .] 2014-01-20 23:23 can you tell me what to connect where in terms of interface the kl25 with anelok ? 2014-01-20 23:23 want to try it once i'm able to get the KL QFN chip 2014-01-20 23:23 dandon has joined #qi-hardware 2014-01-20 23:24 SWD_DIO, SWD_CLK, nRESET, VDD, GND. that's all you need. 2014-01-20 23:25 you can see the connection here: http://downloads.qi-hardware.com/people/werner/anelok/tmp/brd0-d1-top.jpg 2014-01-20 23:26 and here's the continuation: http://downloads.qi-hardware.com/people/werner/anelok/tmp/brd0-d1-bot.jpg 2014-01-20 23:29 ok cool...that will do for now...once it's up and running will need your help again :) 2014-01-20 23:31 hehe :)