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2013-12-21 00:16 <wpwrak> whee, now we can have pets :)
2013-12-21 00:23 <nicksydney> hello
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2013-12-21 00:44 <wpwrak> heya ! show the pictures ! the pictures of the perfect board you made :)
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2013-12-21 00:54 <nicksydney> not yet my friend...was away interstate 2 days...today going to pick up the blue paper from the makerspace
2013-12-21 02:14 <wpwrak> drum roll :)
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2013-12-21 02:55 <whitequark> oooo, there's a DE remailer I can trust
2013-12-21 02:56 <whitequark> so goldelico won't even need to send me neo900 via russian post
2013-12-21 02:58 <whitequark> also works with CN, hmm...
2013-12-21 03:01 <wpwrak> how do you know you can trust them ? because you know where their kids go to school ? :)
2013-12-21 03:03 <whitequark> because a) they're huge and there's not a crowd of people spewing hate around b) I've used them in past and they consistently delivered
2013-12-21 03:04 <whitequark> the fees aren't something to scoff at (it starts at $50 and grows with weight), but if I combine several international shipments, it pays off
2013-12-21 03:04 <wpwrak> okay, that sounds fairly convincing
2013-12-21 03:05 <whitequark> I believe it becomes profitable at three combined parcels
2013-12-21 03:05 <whitequark> especially so when intra-country shipment is free, e.g. amazon
2013-12-21 03:06 <whitequark> plus, recently they started offering a service which doesn't involve russian post ever touching the parcel
2013-12-21 03:07 <whitequark> as I understand, they themselves: rent airplane cargo spaces on US->RU flights, plan intra-RU logistics (say Moscow airports are really overloaded near end of the year), deal with customs and then send a courier from their warehouse
2013-12-21 03:07 <whitequark> fun fact: it's cheaper than any other option: first class mail, EMS, etc, etc
2013-12-21 03:09 <wpwrak> sounds nice.
2013-12-21 03:09 <whitequark> indeed
2013-12-21 03:09 <whitequark> they even say when specifically they have shipments scheduled
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2013-12-21 03:10 <whitequark> say my parcel will likely be composed at 23th, then shipped the same day and arrive in about three more
2013-12-21 03:11 <whitequark> which is even more impressive, considering the sheer number they likely have to process right before the new year
2013-12-21 03:11 <wpwrak> ah, no "sometime between 8 am and 8 pm. just be at home, ready to respond within 10 seconds when the bell rings."
2013-12-21 03:12 <whitequark> no, that's a completely different thing, I'm talking about US->RU shipment
2013-12-21 03:12 <whitequark> since they stop them at 24th and stop customs processing at 27th
2013-12-21 03:13 <whitequark> but that's also taken care of. the courier will call you the day before and agree on a timeframe
2013-12-21 03:14 <wpwrak> ah, i see. well, here this is so much easier: all government services are shut down from the 23rd to the 2nd, with some hastily issued decrees. apparently in response to widespread blackouts.
2013-12-21 03:17 <whitequark> no government [services], no problem :p
2013-12-21 03:18 <wpwrak> indeed :)
2013-12-21 03:19 <whitequark> I recall a saying: in US, public services are for those who can't afford private. in the rest of the world, they're for public [everyone]
2013-12-21 03:19 <whitequark> but, I find this more of a spectrum than a definite distinction by country
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2013-12-21 03:35 <orthogonal_> Hi, I'm thinking of getting an atusb. I realise that the range is only 4-7m. If I were use a Wokfi ( http://www.usbwifi.orconhosting.net.nz/ ), then what would be an estimate for expected range?
2013-12-21 03:36 <orthogonal_> It is sort of like a metal dish put around the wifi usb to increase range
2013-12-21 03:45 <whitequark> so a makeshift directional antenna. they claim 12-15 dB gain, so this means 15-30 times the range, in theory
2013-12-21 03:46 <whitequark> but, do keep in mind that you'd need to orient the antenna rather precisely at the source
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2013-12-21 03:47 <whitequark> and if you want bidirectional communication, you'd need two of them pointing at each other. it may quickly become nontrivial
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2013-12-21 03:57 <orthogonal_> I see. So, 15-30 times the range would be about 1-2km. Ah, would I be able to orient it by just sight?
2013-12-21 03:59 <whitequark> that's about 60-210 meters, not 1-2 km
2013-12-21 04:00 <orthogonal_> Ah, I really should have calculated better :)
2013-12-21 04:00 <whitequark> (sight) at ~100m that may be possible. you could try one of those fancy laser pointers.
2013-12-21 04:01 <orthogonal_> Okay. Do you know if it is possible to go further? The XBee project seem to have 15 miles: http://www.digi.com/news/pressrelease?prid=455
2013-12-21 04:02 <orthogonal_> Not that I'd need that much, though
2013-12-21 04:02 <orthogonal_> They seem to use an rf
2013-12-21 04:03 <whitequark> well, in other applications (I've seen nRF24L01+ dongles) this is fixed by adding a power amplifier in front of the chip
2013-12-21 04:04 <whitequark> I imagine it would be possible to make a custom version of atusb, but as-is it's likely not
2013-12-21 04:09 <orthogonal_> Hm... a power amplifier. I'll see if I can look into that
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2013-12-21 11:02 <nicksydney> wpwrak : gone ?
2013-12-21 11:02 <nicksydney> wpwrak...this is the result using the blue paper...
2013-12-21 11:02 <nicksydney> result ... http://ctrlv.in/273127 ......http://ctrlv.in/273128
2013-12-21 11:03 <nicksydney> the blue paper *after* ironing it to the board.....this is the side that face to the copper board ... http://ctrlv.in/273129 ...while this picture is the side to the iron ... http://ctrlv.in/273130
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2013-12-21 11:10 <xiangfu> nicksydney: Hi
2013-12-21 11:11 <nicksydney> xiangfu: hi
2013-12-21 11:11 <xiangfu> nicksydney: have you check out this: http://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/Mini-slx9
2013-12-21 11:12 <nicksydney> uuhh thanks xiangfu haven't see that before
2013-12-21 11:14 <nicksydney> xiangfu: did you do all those experiment ?
2013-12-21 11:14 <xiangfu> nicksydney: yes.
2013-12-21 11:15 <nicksydney> xiangfu: so seems like from your experiment the 'Lucky' gloss paper gave you the best result ?
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2013-12-21 11:16 <xiangfu> nicksydney: you can think the top5 are all same
2013-12-21 11:17 <nicksydney> xiangfu:  noticed that the link to the shop is to taobao...which is hard to buy from :)....do you have any idea whether there is something similar like that on ebay ?
2013-12-21 11:19 <xiangfu> you can try to buy the same 'type'
2013-12-21 11:21 <xiangfu> nicksydney: where are you? maybe I can just send you some. I still have them in my home.
2013-12-21 11:23 <nicksydney> xiangfu: thanks for the office but it's allright i will try to get it from ebay as the shipping cost will be too much :)
2013-12-21 11:23 <nicksydney> xiangfu: will search on ebay and will get an idea from you to see what you think about the paper
2013-12-21 11:24 <nicksydney> i'm going to try again to use the blue press-n-peel paper again tomorrow and this time will do it bit longer to make sure i apply enough heat...looks like i made mistake of not applying enough heat yah >?
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2013-12-21 11:25 <wpwrak> aah, power failure while i slept. love 'em.
2013-12-21 11:41 <nicksydney> [22:03:01] <nicksydney> wpwrak...this is the result using the blue paper...
2013-12-21 11:41 <nicksydney> [22:03:07] <nicksydney> the blue paper *after* ironing it to the board.....this is the side that face to the copper board ... http://ctrlv.in/273129 ...while this picture is the side to the iron ... http://ctrlv.in/273130
2013-12-21 11:41 <nicksydney> [22:03:04] <nicksydney> result ... http://ctrlv.in/273127 ......http://ctrlv.in/273128
2013-12-21 11:50 <wpwrak> interesting. it does seem to help a lot.
2013-12-21 11:50 <wpwrak> your main problem now seems to be insufficient adhesion of toner
2013-12-21 11:51 <wpwrak> maybe try more heat (if you can) and more pressure
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2013-12-21 11:53 <nicksydney> wpwrak: yeah my gut feeling is also telling me i think i have not use the iron long enough perhaps and also perhaps not too much pressure
2013-12-21 11:58 <wpwrak> after heating for a while, you should also pass with the iron's edge over the board. that creates extra pressure
2013-12-21 11:59 <nicksydney> wpwrak: true...initially i was bit worried that i put too much heat into it so i took it easy ... another try again tomorrow :)
2013-12-21 12:00 <nicksydney> well at least it looks promising :)
2013-12-21 12:00 <wpwrak> definitely, yes. and once you figure out how to use the blue paper, you can see if you can get it to work with something that's easier to find as well
2013-12-21 12:02 <nicksydney> wpwrak: xiangfu told me about this page  http://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/Mini-slx9 .... which is very useful
2013-12-21 12:05 <wpwrak> ah, bgas, the next level :)
2013-12-21 12:06 <wpwrak> nice page indeed. lots of details.
2013-12-21 12:08 <nicksydney> wpwrak: the ps plot from the back side is flipped so when i transferred it to the board it looks the other side ... ... while i can see in kicad the back side not flipped...how do i view it 'flipped' ?
2013-12-21 12:10 <wpwrak> not sure if you can
2013-12-21 12:10 <wpwrak> maybe use a mirror ? ;-)
2013-12-21 12:11 <wpwrak> you could use this, though: http://downloads.qi-hardware.com/people/werner/anelok/tmp/anelok-20131005.png
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2013-12-21 12:27 <nicksydney> where did you get this from http://downloads.qi-hardware.com/people/werner/anelok/tmp/anelok-20131005.png  ?
2013-12-21 12:41 <wpwrak> generate the gerbers and .pos in pcbnew, then run "make overview"
2013-12-21 12:42 <wpwrak> ah no, not .pos. the drill file. gerbers and drill file.
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2013-12-21 13:22 <nicksydney> wpwrak: i have a question
2013-12-21 13:24 * wpwrak dims the lights, turns on the spotlights on the candidates. who will answer nick's final question ?
2013-12-21 13:25 <nicksydney> wpwrak: saw from schematics that there is a connection VSYS which is coming from AAT1217 and it is connected to pin 5 of MKL25 chip ..saw from datasheet that VOUT33 (labelled in Pin 5) is  "Regulator output voltage" does this mean that this is used to power the USB ?
2013-12-21 13:26 * nicksydney put his thinking cap on and start getting his pencil and paper to write the answer down :)
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2013-12-21 13:28 <wpwrak> that's a little "6" there. the VSYS pin is VIN. VSYS is (more or less) max(battery, min(vusb, 3.3V))
2013-12-21 13:32 <nicksydney> so is VIN the same as Pin1 (which is connected to battery) ?
2013-12-21 13:33 <wpwrak> i'm talking about the boost converter. and no, VIN is fed by VSYS, which is an output of the MCU
2013-12-21 13:34 <wpwrak> here's a diagram (a bit dated): http://downloads.qi-hardware.com/people/werner/pwsafe/block.pdf
2013-12-21 13:36 <wpwrak> USB power goes to the MCU where it is "mixed" with battery power. the result (Vsys) goes to RF and to the boost converter. the boost converter then supplies OLED and memory card
2013-12-21 13:40 <DocScrutinizer05> I wonder if there's clear instruction somewhere in PCB_the_tonertransfer_way about the printout needs to get mirrored so it's correct orientation on the PCB after transfer
2013-12-21 13:40 <nicksydney> the USB power that goes to MCU is USB_VBUS ?
2013-12-21 13:42 <DocScrutinizer05> btw same procedure recommended for photopositive method, to get 'mask' aka toner in direct contact to the photoresistive to avoid parallax and diffusion errors reducing width of traces
2013-12-21 13:42 <DocScrutinizer05> nicksydney: yes, this sounds like a generally correct assumption, on all designs
2013-12-21 13:43 <DocScrutinizer05> USB_VBUS is the commonly used name vor USB power input to device
2013-12-21 13:43 <DocScrutinizer05> for*
2013-12-21 13:44 <DocScrutinizer05> sometimes also for the 5V supplied by device to the USB, in hostmode
2013-12-21 13:44 <DocScrutinizer05> though in the latter case the term USB_VBOOST is aslo common
2013-12-21 13:47 <nicksydney> DocScrutinizer05: cool...understood
2013-12-21 13:47 <nicksydney> so that means USB_VBUS + VBAT = VSYS --> goes to boost converted to power up the OLED ... so that means without USB no OLED will be shown ..correct ?
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2013-12-21 13:51 <nicksydney> interesting pin 6 on the MCU is called VREGIN and this is the one that is connected to USB_VBUS
2013-12-21 13:51 <nicksydney> datashee - VREGIN == USB regulator input
2013-12-21 13:52 <nicksydney> ahhh pg 40 found something
2013-12-21 13:52 <nicksydney> USB VREG electrical specifications
2013-12-21 13:52 <nicksydney> VREGIN Input supply voltage 2.7 — 5.5 V
2013-12-21 13:52 <nicksydney> am i reading all this correctly ?
2013-12-21 14:14 <nicksydney> wpwrak: question...why is there a mention in the schematic about VSYS connected to 1uF (C11) near Pin 22/23 ?
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2013-12-21 14:15 <nicksydney> wpwrak: is that what is called a decoupling cap ? ... still learning here :)
2013-12-21 14:32 <DocScrutinizer05> rather a buffer I guess
2013-12-21 14:44 <nicksydney> DocScrutinizer05: what is the use of buffer ?
2013-12-21 14:46 <wpwrak> nicksydney: without USB, the OLED still works. the boost converter just uses battery power then. in fact, if we always had USB power, VSYS would be high enough to always have 3.3 V and we wouldn't need the boost converter
2013-12-21 14:47 <nicksydney> wpwrak: was looking through the AT86RF232 datasheet(http://www.atmel.com/Images/doc8321.pdf)  and I'm looking at page 10 where it shows the pinout config for the chip...i notice that for pin 13 & 14 is it pull to ground via cap CB3 and on page 11 it says CB3 is 100nf while in anelok schematic it is using 1uF is this ok ?
2013-12-21 14:50 <nicksydney> wpwrak: ahhh i see...so the reason why we have  boost converter because we are using battery and there is not enough 'omph' to power OLED
2013-12-21 14:54 <nicksydney> wpwrak: same with pin 29 of AT86RF232 it uses 1uf while datasheet using 100nf and anelok is using 1uF
2013-12-21 14:55 <wpwrak> ah, interesting. they changes that from at86rf230/231 to 232. didn't even notice it. probably doesn't matter ;)
2013-12-21 15:02 <DocScrutinizer05> for sue doesn't matter
2013-12-21 15:03 <DocScrutinizer05> sure even
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2013-12-21 15:05 <nicksydney> wpwrak: can you educate me why using 1uf and 100nf will not make any difference ?
2013-12-21 15:17 <DocScrutinizer05> nicksydney: it's basically like a tiny battery helping the regulator to provide smooth power
2013-12-21 15:17 <wpwrak> they're buffers. making a buffer a bit too large doesn't hurt. it's like having a slightly larger tank in your car.
2013-12-21 15:17 <DocScrutinizer05> making that tiny battery a tad more beefy doesn't usually cause any harm
2013-12-21 15:18 <DocScrutinizer05> wpwrak: however check X5R vs X7R
2013-12-21 15:18 <DocScrutinizer05> ESR et al
2013-12-21 15:18 <DocScrutinizer05> Zind
2013-12-21 15:19 <nicksydney> DocScrutinizer05/wpwrak: understood now for the cap
2013-12-21 15:19 <nicksydney> DocScrutinizer05: what is X5R and X7R ?
2013-12-21 15:19 <DocScrutinizer05> 1uF actually might have properties not allowed for the CB1 CB3
2013-12-21 15:19 <DocScrutinizer05> nicksydney: some special type of capacitors
2013-12-21 15:20 <DocScrutinizer05> regarding material etc
2013-12-21 15:21 <DocScrutinizer05> nicksydney: on page 101 (iirc) you got a pretty "schematic" of the regulator
2013-12-21 15:23 <nicksydney> DocScrutinizer05: you mean page 108 ?
2013-12-21 15:24 <DocScrutinizer05> maybe, I already closed the pdf
2013-12-21 15:24 <DocScrutinizer05> 9.1 iirc
2013-12-21 15:25 <nicksydney> 9.1 is receiver section
2013-12-21 15:25 <nicksydney> 9.4 says voltage regulators
2013-12-21 15:28 <wpwrak> in any case, the transceiver will soon become a different chip anyway. so all that changes.
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2013-12-21 15:32 <nicksydney> wpwrak: so anelok will not be using aT86 chip ?
2013-12-21 15:34 <wpwrak> nope, i want to switch to the TI CC2543, which should be BT/BTLE-compatible (at the lowest layers - it'll need some tweaking for the MAC)
2013-12-21 15:34 <wpwrak> more useful than 802.15.4
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2013-12-21 15:38 <nicksydney> wpwrak: ok...cool.....
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2013-12-21 15:55 <nicksydney> time to hit the bed
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2013-12-21 16:04 <DocScrutinizer05> BTLE is a subset of BT, right?
2013-12-21 16:04 <DocScrutinizer05> or rather, an extension
2013-12-21 16:05 <DocScrutinizer05> extension of specs, regarding what's allowable etc
2013-12-21 16:05 <DocScrutinizer05> a subset regarding some of the complexity that is BT, maybe
2013-12-21 16:08 <DocScrutinizer05> BLE btw
2013-12-21 16:08 <wpwrak> the relation is a little weird. as i understand it: the PHY is basically equivalent (though not identical as in word-by-word the same). not sure about MAC differences. there must be some in the data and also the hopping simpler. there may be some. the higher layers are apparently radically simplified.
2013-12-21 16:08 <wpwrak> officially it's "BT Smart" :)
2013-12-21 16:16 <DocScrutinizer05> wibree BLP BLE BLS OMG!
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2013-12-21 16:19 <wpwrak> ;-)
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2013-12-21 16:43 <apelete> larsc_: hi there
2013-12-21 16:46 <larsc> hi
2013-12-21 16:50 <apelete> larsc_: been a few days since last time, how are you doing ?
2013-12-21 16:51 <larsc> perfectly well
2013-12-21 16:54 <apelete> nice
2013-12-21 16:54 <apelete> was thinking about your trial with dma on jz4740, how did it end ?
2013-12-21 16:56 <larsc> not well
2013-12-21 16:56 <larsc> at least not for the ethernet gadget
2013-12-21 16:56 <larsc> the problem is that all the ethernet packet are unaligned, while the dma only works if they are aligned
2013-12-21 16:57 <larsc> so dma is bypassed all the time
2013-12-21 16:58 <apelete> is that an issue we can solve or does it render the dma useless altogether ?
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2013-12-21 17:01 <larsc> at least for the ethernet gadget I would say dma is useless
2013-12-21 17:02 <larsc> you can still use it for maybe mass storage
2013-12-21 17:05 <apelete> larsc_: okay, so no need for me to have a look at it then, I guess
2013-12-21 17:05 <apelete> but maybe you can still push your patches ? just curious to read the code to know how it works :)
2013-12-21 17:06 <larsc> I don't have them anymore
2013-12-21 17:06 <apelete> ah shoot :-(
2013-12-21 17:06 <larsc> but it was basically just allowing the same irq to be requested for both dma and the usb controller by adding IRQF_SHARED
2013-12-21 17:06 <larsc> and adding the resource for the dma irq
2013-12-21 17:07 <pcercuei> if you're in need of implementing DMA, there's still the MMC driver :p
2013-12-21 17:09 <apelete> larsc_: ok, maybe I'll try to do that just for fun, and ask for your help when I fail :)
2013-12-21 17:09 <apelete> pcercuei: MMC driver on the jz4740 ?
2013-12-21 17:09 <pcercuei> yes
2013-12-21 17:10 <apelete> pcercuei: so we need dma on the mmc driver too ?
2013-12-21 17:11 <pcercuei> it'd be nice to have, yes
2013-12-21 17:14 <apelete> pcercuei: ok then, I'm on holidays for a week or so, will take a look at dma both in usb and mmc driver
2013-12-21 17:15 <apelete> can't order gcw-zero (not in stock yet) so I need to get my hands on something for the time being
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2013-12-21 17:34 <larsc> adding dma support to the mmc driver shouldn't be to hard with the dmaengine driver in plance
2013-12-21 17:34 <larsc> place
2013-12-21 17:35 <larsc> but before you start on this give me a ping, there are 1-2 bugs in the dmaengine driver that don't show up when being used for audio, but will show up when used for mmc
2013-12-21 17:43 <apelete> larsc_: ok, will let you know before I start (not tonight anyway, I'm packing. will be traveling to Paris tomorrow)
2013-12-21 17:44 <larsc> I'll be on the train tomorrow too
2013-12-21 17:45 <apelete> larsc_: going on holidays too ?
2013-12-21 17:46 <larsc> visiting my family, not sure if you can call that holidays ;)
2013-12-21 17:49 <apelete> ha ha :)
2013-12-21 17:50 <apelete> same here, visit my family and traveling by train. I hope to get some free time to spend on hacking though
2013-12-21 17:51 <larsc> in Germany on the ICE they have poweroutlets on each seat these days. I just hope the train is not too overcrowded and I get a seat
2013-12-21 17:52 <larsc> But I'm getting in on the first stop (and out on the last stop) so I hope I should be able to find something
2013-12-21 17:52 <pcercuei> Holydays on ICE? :p
2013-12-21 17:53 <larsc> yep
2013-12-21 17:59 <apelete> not sure about poweroutlets on the TGV in France, but will be using my newly bought thinkpad X220, perfect to test battery time
2013-12-21 18:00 <apelete> got it a month ago, but still working on my aging thinkpad X60, didn't have time to swith properly despite having debian installed on the X220
2013-12-21 18:02 <wpwrak> if you really want to test your battery, teleport to argentina, then join the exodus to the coast. even inside the city traffic has exploded today. there's a sleepy little street next to where i live that gets about one car per minute on average. today it's backed up all the way to the avenue. the highways must be pure fun.
2013-12-21 18:04 <wpwrak> (xmas and new year mark the beginning of the summer holidays here. so lots of people head out for the end of december and all/most of january)
2013-12-21 18:05 <apelete> sounds like traffic hell
2013-12-21 18:07 <wpwrak> totally. kinda like germany vs. italy around easter
2013-12-21 18:07 <wpwrak> (if they still do that and don't disperse a little more)
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2013-12-21 21:01 <larsc> nobody drives cars anymore ;)
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