2013-12-03 00:05 we've just got slashdoted 2013-12-03 00:14 HAH! 2013-12-03 00:15 and wpwrak is missing all the fun 2013-12-03 00:16 hah, didn't notice that he left 2013-12-03 00:16 wrote it here mainly for him :D 2013-12-03 01:10 michael_lee has joined #qi-hardware 2013-12-03 01:22 root_empire has joined #qi-hardware 2013-12-03 01:22 michael_lee has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 2013-12-03 01:24 root_empire has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 2013-12-03 01:27 root_empire has joined #qi-hardware 2013-12-03 01:29 root_empire has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 2013-12-03 01:37 pcercuei has quit [Quit: dodo] 2013-12-03 01:47 root_empire has joined #qi-hardware 2013-12-03 01:51 root_empire has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 2013-12-03 01:53 root_empire has joined #qi-hardware 2013-12-03 02:06 root_empire has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 2013-12-03 02:06 michael_lee has joined #qi-hardware 2013-12-03 02:10 michael_lee has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 2013-12-03 02:12 michael_lee has joined #qi-hardware 2013-12-03 02:15 michael_lee has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 2013-12-03 02:17 michael_lee has joined #qi-hardware 2013-12-03 02:20 michael_lee has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 2013-12-03 02:26 michael_lee has joined #qi-hardware 2013-12-03 02:39 michael_lee has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 2013-12-03 02:41 michael_lee has joined #qi-hardware 2013-12-03 03:20 xiangfu has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 2013-12-03 03:20 dos1 has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 2013-12-03 03:21 xiangfu has joined #qi-hardware 2013-12-03 03:41 michael_lee has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 2013-12-03 04:11 there was a storm. Maybe his connection was lost. 2013-12-03 04:30 qwebirc31989 has joined #qi-hardware 2013-12-03 04:30 qwebirc31989 is now known as nicksydney 2013-12-03 04:34 I heard "brownout" 2013-12-03 04:34 [2013-12-03 00:01:15] have to quit for while and try to bring one of my graphics cards after the brownout ... 2013-12-03 04:34 [2013-12-03 00:01:16] <-- wpwrak has left this server (Quit: Leaving). 2013-12-03 05:43 sanderr has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 2013-12-03 06:03 sanderr has joined #qi-hardware 2013-12-03 06:44 panda|w530 has joined #qi-hardware 2013-12-03 07:29 jekhor has joined #qi-hardware 2013-12-03 07:32 viric has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 2013-12-03 07:39 viric has joined #qi-hardware 2013-12-03 07:50 lekernel has joined #qi-hardware 2013-12-03 08:26 michael_lee has joined #qi-hardware 2013-12-03 08:28 michael_lee has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 2013-12-03 08:30 michael_lee has joined #qi-hardware 2013-12-03 08:38 michael_lee has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 2013-12-03 08:40 michael_lee has joined #qi-hardware 2013-12-03 08:51 michael_lee has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 2013-12-03 08:53 michael_lee has joined #qi-hardware 2013-12-03 08:57 DocScrutinizer0, doc1: Congrats with the 200-mark! And the slashdot article might even help reaching the 1000-mark. 2013-12-03 08:58 hmm, don't see that happen yet, but sure it will help 2013-12-03 08:59 I more hope for secondary articles triggered from /. - and most I hope for the chain reaction effect as described in https://blogs.fsfe.org/pboddie/?p=596 2013-12-03 09:00 potential customers noticing that we reached 200, thus felling more "safe2 when they jump on the train as well 2013-12-03 09:01 feeling* 2013-12-03 09:03 psychology of the masses: "others were excited and joined, so why should't I, this MUST be something awesome" 2013-12-03 09:04 you can even force this by spreading rumours about timelines approaching where it will "be too late" 2013-12-03 09:04 but we won't do this yet 2013-12-03 09:06 first we will showcase a fully working first prototype maybe february 2013-12-03 09:06 michael_lee has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 2013-12-03 09:07 DocScrutinizer05: That's how I got into the NanoNote. 2013-12-03 09:07 michael_lee has joined #qi-hardware 2013-12-03 09:07 we might reach 500 til then. Then announce the window will close soon and open up true preorders, to catch up another maybe 500 2013-12-03 09:09 (I'm reading Paul's blog post for a bit) 2013-12-03 09:09 it's nice 2013-12-03 09:10 nickoe has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 2013-12-03 09:11 Indeed! I agree that the only sustainable way forward with freedom is with open hard- and software. 2013-12-03 09:13 nickoe has joined #qi-hardware 2013-12-03 09:13 But the way you guys juggle electronics design and programming is way over my head. I only get 50-60% of it. 2013-12-03 09:13 Still, it's fun and interesting to learn. 2013-12-03 09:14 And I will do my part in promoting the project by pointing interested people to this initiative. 2013-12-03 09:15 michael_lee has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 2013-12-03 09:16 thanks! :-) 2013-12-03 09:17 michael_lee has joined #qi-hardware 2013-12-03 09:28 michael_lee has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 2013-12-03 09:30 michael_lee has joined #qi-hardware 2013-12-03 09:43 michael_lee has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 2013-12-03 09:44 michael_lee has joined #qi-hardware 2013-12-03 09:58 michael_lee has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 2013-12-03 09:59 michael_lee has joined #qi-hardware 2013-12-03 10:08 panda|w530 has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 2013-12-03 10:13 michael_lee has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 2013-12-03 10:14 michael_lee has joined #qi-hardware 2013-12-03 10:16 nicksydney has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 2013-12-03 10:27 michael_lee has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 2013-12-03 10:28 michael_lee has joined #qi-hardware 2013-12-03 10:31 jekhor has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 2013-12-03 10:38 michael_lee has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 2013-12-03 10:40 michael_lee has joined #qi-hardware 2013-12-03 10:41 michael_lee has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 2013-12-03 10:43 dos1 has joined #qi-hardware 2013-12-03 10:56 dos1 has quit [Quit: Kabum!] 2013-12-03 11:03 hehe, maybe I should mumble something like "of course those 350 1GB RAM chips will go to the first 350 preorders. Let's see if we can get more of them" 2013-12-03 11:04 DocScrutinizer05: btw is there any more certainty about particular component choices? 2013-12-03 11:04 like specific supported wifi/bt standards 2013-12-03 11:04 no 2013-12-03 11:05 we know we will use 320AIC34 audio mixer, P*S8 modem (probably), we know quite a bit about some sensors etc we'll use 2013-12-03 11:07 but WLAN for example hasn't been a topic yet for evaluation and/or sourcing 2013-12-03 11:07 in 3 months there might be better modules available than today 2013-12-03 11:08 I see 2013-12-03 11:22 qwebirc74685 has joined #qi-hardware 2013-12-03 11:22 qwebirc74685 is now known as nicksydney 2013-12-03 11:24 wej has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 2013-12-03 11:27 wej has joined #qi-hardware 2013-12-03 11:39 https://github.com/search?q=fixme+race+condition&ref=cmdform&type=Code 2013-12-03 11:39 C: 437,426 results :p 2013-12-03 12:07 wpwrak has joined #qi-hardware 2013-12-03 12:07 aah, baaack ! for once, the brute-force miracle cure worked 2013-12-03 12:09 (had one of my video cards not come up under X, so i was down from triple-head to single-head. it did this in the past but usually snapped out of it after a few reboots. but not this time. fortunately, a distribution upgrade cured this) 2013-12-03 12:10 hmm, is it just me or is gitorious having problems ? (502 Bad Gateway) 2013-12-03 12:17 paul_boddie has joined #qi-hardware 2013-12-03 12:18 wpwrak: gitorius looks OK to me, but it should be quite local to me, too. 2013-12-03 12:20 wpwrak: welcome back :) 2013-12-03 12:21 pcercuei has joined #qi-hardware 2013-12-03 12:22 ah, now i can reach it, too. must have been a glitch. 2013-12-03 12:26 jekhor has joined #qi-hardware 2013-12-03 12:46 Looking at the gitorius DMCA takedown notices is interesting: https://gitorious.org/gitorious/dmca 2013-12-03 12:48 "state under penalty of perjury" hmm ;-) 2013-12-03 12:49 Not that interesting, though. Still, people sending such notices should know that "copywritten" is something different. Sheesh! 2013-12-03 12:50 I wonder if the "decompiled source code" for EVE Online was the whole thing. The server stuff is in Python as far as I'm aware. 2013-12-03 12:50 If it was, you'd have to wonder how it made its way onto gitorius. 2013-12-03 12:50 naw,they just saw the file names match "ps3*" 2013-12-03 12:53 Was the 502 error you got an nginx thing? "502 Bad Gateway" is surely the war cry of Web 2.0. 2013-12-03 12:53 yes 2013-12-03 13:02 xiangfu has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 2013-12-03 13:04 xiangfu has joined #qi-hardware 2013-12-03 13:20 panda|w530 has joined #qi-hardware 2013-12-03 13:43 toshiba just bought OCZ. cute: http://evilazrael.net/ocz.png 2013-12-03 13:53 wej has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 2013-12-03 13:56 wej has joined #qi-hardware 2013-12-03 14:01 wpwrak: what you have against SSD? :) 2013-12-03 14:02 wd also is buying http://www.storagenewsletter.com/rubriques/mas/wd-virident-ssd-acquisition/ 2013-12-03 14:02 michael_lee has joined #qi-hardware 2013-12-03 14:02 SSDs ? i think i would have bought one by now if it wasn't for the reputation they got mainly because of OCZ :) 2013-12-03 14:02 yeao SSDs, sorry 2013-12-03 14:02 lol 2013-12-03 14:04 "virident" sounds like personal hygiene product :) 2013-12-03 14:04 SSDs are awesome :p 2013-12-03 14:04 "virus-free teeth". i think marketers haven't picked up that one yet 2013-12-03 14:05 you are extra sure you will make those backups 2013-12-03 14:07 as awesome as this flight: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=182AepOJjMs 2013-12-03 14:07 (at the beginning it looks a bit like an sr-71 but it's a b-52) 2013-12-03 14:21 wej has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 2013-12-03 14:24 wej has joined #qi-hardware 2013-12-03 14:26 wolfspraul has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 2013-12-03 14:27 wolfspraul has joined #qi-hardware 2013-12-03 15:09 xiangfu has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 2013-12-03 15:19 xiangfu has joined #qi-hardware 2013-12-03 16:28 nicksydney: btw, the laser printer i use for toner transfer is an old hp lj 1320. they're some USD 100 on ebay. the toner transfer will contaminate the printer with time, so you don't want a "nice" one for that job 2013-12-03 16:29 even better would be a lj 2100, c4170a. that's an even older model that worked even better. about the same price used. 2013-12-03 16:29 rz2k has joined #qi-hardware 2013-12-03 17:08 xiangfu has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 2013-12-03 17:17 o.O 2013-12-03 17:17 PCB etching? 2013-12-03 17:33 dos1 has joined #qi-hardware 2013-12-03 17:33 trying to get him hooked, yup :) 2013-12-03 17:34 always a mess 2013-12-03 17:35 I prefer spending a 50 bucks for a 160*100 dualside with via every day 2013-12-03 17:38 you can't beat the processing time :) 2013-12-03 17:39 finish design at 6 pm, print at 7, etch at 8, have the board smt'ed and running at 10 :) 2013-12-03 17:42 takes a little longer if the board is very delicate since you have to do the two sides separately. but still. it's fast. especially if you don't have an affordable "next business day" pcb-making service in town 2013-12-03 17:47 then rather mill than etch 2013-12-03 17:48 too unreliable 2013-12-03 17:55 hmm, can't find the pictures i took of one of those experiments :( 2013-12-03 17:56 ah, here: http://people.openmoko.org/werner/cnc/pcb-1st/ 2013-12-03 17:57 nicksydney has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 2013-12-03 17:59 wpwrak maybe your work on bluetooth (when/IF it happens) might be leveraged by the Neo900 team? Evidently that product will not include wi-fi (it seems) 2013-12-03 17:59 apparently, they will. but i don't know what module. 2013-12-03 17:59 DocScrutinizer05: do you already have a list of wlan candidates ? 2013-12-03 18:00 see feasibility study 2013-12-03 18:00 page 14 iirc 2013-12-03 18:00 meh, 18, or scrap that 2013-12-03 18:01 we also might use wl1251/71 2013-12-03 18:01 based modules 2013-12-03 18:01 jekhor has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 2013-12-03 18:01 known to work, somewhat 2013-12-03 18:02 kernel drivers RE'ed and augmented to do injection and monitor 2013-12-03 18:02 still closed blob firmware 2013-12-03 18:02 afaik 2013-12-03 18:02 wl1251 used in N900 2013-12-03 18:03 but the kernel driver is open ? 2013-12-03 18:03 yep, the re'ed one is 2013-12-03 18:04 search for n900 injection driver 2013-12-03 18:04 or somesuch 2013-12-03 18:04 I bought it when they guy still asked for a donation 2013-12-03 18:04 -y 2013-12-03 18:04 so I dunno how it's called today 2013-12-03 18:04 http://www.ti.com/product/wl1271-tiwi-ble "not recommended for new designs" it's haunting you :( 2013-12-03 18:05 dang! 2013-12-03 18:05 always same bullshit 2013-12-03 18:05 when it becomes available for aftermarket, it's already EOL 2013-12-03 18:06 Mistah_Darcy_ has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 2013-12-03 18:06 :-/ 2013-12-03 18:07 ironically, mouser have it as "New Product: New from this manufacturer." 2013-12-03 18:08 maybe this is the answer: "Special Note 2013-12-03 18:08 TI no longer supports new WiLink6 software driver development. The LSR TiWi-BLE module is still an active product and supported by LSR." 2013-12-03 18:09 yep 2013-12-03 18:09 not too bad 2013-12-03 18:09 mouser will get some on xmas :) more to arrive in february. nice lead times ;-) 2013-12-03 18:11 be happy! ;-P 2013-12-03 18:11 could be worse 2013-12-03 18:12 nah, it seems there are a few choices now, yet to evaluate them all 2013-12-03 18:13 211 2013-12-03 18:13 i wonder how they get these lead times .. even if the factory was on the moon and they require cash first, the round-trip would only have about 10 weeks. 2013-12-03 18:13 *shrug* 2013-12-03 18:14 maybe they first need to build the factory? 2013-12-03 18:14 no idea 2013-12-03 18:15 hmm yes, drive a truck to the hinterlands and deliver a first batch of sticks and stones. wait until they master them. then proceed with simple metals ... 2013-12-03 18:17 Maybe that Chinese Lunar rover is scouting out places for factories. 2013-12-03 18:18 you missed the /. fun 2013-12-03 18:20 "Jade Rabbit Corp., 123 Dust Rd., Bay of Rainbows, Moon, PRC" 2013-12-03 18:20 doesn't sound too different from today's names 2013-12-03 18:22 michael_lee has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 2013-12-03 18:51 Mistah_Darcy has joined #qi-hardware 2013-12-03 18:55 rz2k has quit [] 2013-12-03 19:14 Will Neo900 support bluetooth? ideally, BTLE... 2013-12-03 19:45 jekhor has joined #qi-hardware 2013-12-03 19:50 BT sure, BTLE maybe, not yet decided 2013-12-03 19:59 shortwave radio would also be nice. imagine "lost" if they had had that: pick up any cell phone, call the rescue services, leave it on to send a beacon, happy rescue a few hours later, let the NTSB worry about the technical details. all efficiently done in one episode 2013-12-03 20:42 wolfspraul has quit [Ping timeout: 251 seconds] 2013-12-03 20:56 porchao has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 2013-12-03 21:03 Jay7 has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 2013-12-03 21:09 wpwrak: Spoiler alert! 2013-12-03 21:10 Paul Boddie... Paul Boddie... 2013-12-03 21:10 oh, you're that guy from the blog! 2013-12-03 21:11 Another spoiler: it's the same guy! ;-) 2013-12-03 21:11 But I have to blog about something. 2013-12-03 21:12 wonderful posts about Neo900 and Nanonote, one of the best I've seen on the web 2013-12-03 21:12 Well, I knew I'd get into trouble if I got the details wrong. ;-) 2013-12-03 21:12 very informative and to the point, thanks a lot :) 2013-12-03 21:12 Have you tried to get it onto LWN? 2013-12-03 21:13 nope, but good suggestion 2013-12-03 21:15 It's worth a shot given that they had Improv featured a few days ago. 2013-12-03 21:17 that's a nice idea ! lwn certainly draws a much more high-profile audience than slashdot 2013-12-03 21:19 Well, more high-brow is perhaps how I'd put it. 2013-12-03 21:24 that works, too :) 2013-12-03 21:30 Jay7 has joined #qi-hardware 2013-12-03 21:42 qwebirc88650 has joined #qi-hardware 2013-12-03 21:42 qwebirc88650 is now known as NickSydney 2013-12-03 21:51 wolfspraul has joined #qi-hardware 2013-12-03 21:51 NickSydney: heya, still like the slider idea ? 2013-12-03 21:54 yeah 2013-12-03 21:55 sorry didn't get a chance to chat and look into the project as been troubleshooting issues with day job 2013-12-03 21:55 let's see then what the list thinks about it 2013-12-03 21:55 wej_ has joined #qi-hardware 2013-12-03 21:55 wpwrak: the slider that i've seen in dev boards are capacitive sensor ... is that correct ? 2013-12-03 21:56 btw, this would also be a nice sub-project to get started with experimenting with making PCBs and such :) 2013-12-03 21:56 wpwrak: yeah that's why i'm excited :) 2013-12-03 21:56 something like this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_r_8z0pAQ-o ? 2013-12-03 21:56 yes. lemme see if it can find a description of that design ... 2013-12-03 21:57 wpwrak: the only issue with PCB making for me is the laser jet..which is next to impossible for me to buy :( as it's expensive financially for me 2013-12-03 21:57 wpwrak: any other idea you can think of making your own PCB without laser jet ? 2013-12-03 21:57 used laserjets are some USD 100 2013-12-03 21:57 wpwrak: unless I make PCB via company like seeesstudio :) 2013-12-03 21:57 wpwrak: used laserjet in this part of the world is VERY hard to get 2013-12-03 21:58 wpwrak: let's see what i can come up with :) 2013-12-03 21:59 wej has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 2013-12-03 21:59 wpwrak: i find kicad harder to use than Eagle as newbie 2013-12-03 21:59 bah, you can even find a used 1320 here. even only around USD 100. almost suspiciously low :) 2013-12-03 22:00 i can't compare - never used eagle. 2013-12-03 22:02 wpwrak: need to practise a bit with kicad 2013-12-03 22:04 dos11 has joined #qi-hardware 2013-12-03 22:04 dos1 has quit [Disconnected by services] 2013-12-03 22:04 dos11 is now known as dos1 2013-12-03 22:05 hmm, freescale don't have any much material on touch sensor design :( 2013-12-03 22:05 the section in the quick reference manual gives you an idea, though. dsv klqr then chapter 10, page 105 2013-12-03 22:10 wpwrak: TI or Microchip ? 2013-12-03 22:10 I've seen Microchip demo before if I remember correctly 2013-12-03 22:11 freescale :) 2013-12-03 22:11 but yes, all the vendors have somethign :) 2013-12-03 22:12 lekernel has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 2013-12-03 22:13 say for example you go ahead and add touch...will that means there will extra chip for that ? 2013-12-03 22:13 or we can hook it up using the available pin on M0 2013-12-03 22:15 the kl25 has a touch sensor controller. it's all in my post :) 2013-12-03 22:20 wpwrak: very nice :) 2013-12-03 22:21 wpwrak: i like this http://downloads.qi-hardware.com/people/werner/anelok/tmp/touch.pdf 2013-12-03 22:22 and if you get a frdm-kl25z, you can even try the sensor without extra hw (well, but the sensor itself) 2013-12-03 22:23 but you'll of course want the oled, too, which can be powered from the frdm as well, but it'll need a wee bit of local circuitry 2013-12-03 22:23 the graph on the right side of that picture is that showing voltage reading ? 2013-12-03 22:23 wpwrak: i have the oled that i bought from buy-display few months ago .. i knew it will come in handy 2013-12-03 22:23 something readings ;-) basically capacitance, however it is determined 2013-12-03 22:24 oh, that one's a monster ;-) 2013-12-03 22:24 (if you're talking about the 5") 2013-12-03 22:24 lekernel has joined #qi-hardware 2013-12-03 22:36 using the same as in anelok will also allow to determine the effect of interferences 2013-12-03 22:40 ah, farnell has thinner than 0.4 mm pcbs without excessive lead times. not a lot, though 2013-12-03 22:44 but they've definitely won the price for the most obscure location in their product category tree: pcbs are under "Semiconductors - Tools" 2013-12-03 22:46 wpwrak: no i do have the oled (not the 5") 2013-12-03 22:46 wpwrak: initially i was going to use it to practise for building a LCD driver board ... as i'm obsessed with display :) 2013-12-03 22:48 oh, you have the 1.3" model ? great ! 2013-12-03 22:49 it's extremely easy to get it to work. i was pleasantly surprised 2013-12-03 22:50 anelok/dui/ has the board i made for testing oled and wheel with an external cpu 2013-12-03 22:52 cool...will take a look at that 2013-12-03 22:52 ok going back to work now..catch you later 2013-12-03 22:52 lekernel has quit [Quit: Leaving] 2013-12-03 22:52 hmm, i think farnell are lying. these "ultra-thin" pcbs are in fact normal ones. you'd think after all these aeons of being neighbours, they'd have figured out how to read french data sheets ... 2013-12-03 22:55 (i.e., those "35 um" are not the pcb but the copper on it 2013-12-03 22:58 "Semiconductors - Tools" LOL 2013-12-03 22:58 wpwrak: um, 35um PCBs? 2013-12-03 22:59 what were you smoking? :p 2013-12-03 23:00 that's twice thinner than household aluminum foil 2013-12-03 23:06 jekhor has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 2013-12-03 23:14 Isn't aluminium foil part of the smoker's smoking equipment? ;-) 2013-12-03 23:14 I was going to ask about laser cutting of stuff for prototyping purposes. Anyone here with experiences of that? 2013-12-03 23:15 I have some laser-cut stencils here, which look pretty nice 2013-12-03 23:16 for prototyping however... 2013-12-03 23:18 I wondered if you could do some kind of keyboard/keymat with the right material, engraving and even partial cutting. 2013-12-03 23:20 well, a lot of PC keyboard keycaps are laser-engraved 2013-12-03 23:21 rather: burned 2013-12-03 23:22 anyway sounds almost like an XY-problem 2013-12-03 23:23 Yes, the legends/labels should be straightforward, but I wondered about the ability to make the keymat flex "precisely" and thus activate only one key in the matrix beneath. 2013-12-03 23:24 IOW, depends on your laser, your design, but most of all on your material for the keymat 2013-12-03 23:24 Yes, interesting link time: http://www.abatek.com/technologies/surfaces-design-a-protection.html 2013-12-03 23:24 (From a previous trawl of the Internet.) 2013-12-03 23:25 * DocScrutinizer05 has to go afk, before grumpy mood gets obvious 2013-12-03 23:25 * DocScrutinizer05 needs food 2013-12-03 23:25 and COFFEE 2013-12-03 23:27 Always a good idea. Well, maybe not right before bed (unless you're Finnish). ;-) 2013-12-03 23:28 JRTZ 2013-12-03 23:28 it's errrr almost lunchtime here 2013-12-03 23:28 so CET+12 2013-12-03 23:29 which doesn't really help with finding food 2013-12-03 23:55 paul_boddie has quit []