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2013-11-28 05:08 <ezdagor> anyone know where I can buy a Nanonote?
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2013-11-28 05:17 <wpwrak> you could try pulster.eu
2013-11-28 05:20 <ezdagor> Do they accept USD?
2013-11-28 05:21 <wpwrak> they work in EUR, either with wire transfer or paypal. so the currency conversion is sort of automatic
2013-11-28 05:25 <ezdagor> ok. thanks.
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2013-11-28 05:34 <DocScrutinizer05> wpwrak: you live in the americas, no?
2013-11-28 05:35 <DocScrutinizer05> could you explain to me what's the usual procedure to buy and register/make work a CDMA phone? Given I do *not* want to buy it from carrier
2013-11-28 05:36 <DocScrutinizer05> AIUI CMDA phones usually don't have SIM
2013-11-28 05:36 <DocScrutinizer05> What would an Asian user do when roaming to USA with his SIM-CDMA phone?
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2013-11-28 10:49 <wpwrak> DocScrutinizer05: hmm, no idea. cdma disappeared in argentina a long time ago. it's all GSM now.
2013-11-28 10:49 <wpwrak> and i think any hybrid would be messy :)
2013-11-28 10:51 <wpwrak> when in the US or canada, i of course also used GSM networks. should be similar with UMTS.
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2013-11-28 13:50 <DocScrutinizer05> wpwrak: thanks. Got the answers I needed. See http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1389579#post1389579
2013-11-28 13:51 <DocScrutinizer05> and particularly http://www.enkom.fi/assets/Uploads/PXS8-PVS8-Multi-Carrier-AN67-V01-29.08.20131.pdf
2013-11-28 14:04 <wpwrak> seems easy
2013-11-28 14:05 <wpwrak> and yes, LTE is probably useless for a global product
2013-11-28 14:06 <wpwrak> in a 2012 c't article i just read, they mention some 34 LTE bands world-wide, so ...
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2013-11-28 14:07 <wpwrak> of course, UMTS isn't exactly "universal" either ...
2013-11-28 14:07 <wpwrak> but at least you have GSM and EDGE. finally something you can trust ;-)
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2013-11-28 14:21 <ysionneau> maybe someday you will see massively multi band LTE chips
2013-11-28 14:21 <ysionneau> configurable
2013-11-28 14:22 <ysionneau> dunno how hard it would be
2013-11-28 14:22 <ysionneau> I know chips capable of receiving and decoding multi standard dvb, I guess dvb is not on the same band if you are in europe or usa or Japan etc
2013-11-28 14:30 <wpwrak> the question is if the carriers would even want such chips to exist. and since almost everything is sold through carriers, ...
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2013-11-28 20:28 <DocScrutinizer05> to me it seems carriers actively drive that diversification to protect their markets
2013-11-28 20:28 <larsc> one receiver to rule them all
2013-11-28 20:28 <DocScrutinizer05> this started with 900/1800 vs 800/1900 for GSM, which had no *real* rationale
2013-11-28 20:29 <DocScrutinizer05> mainly NIH and "off my lawn. sucker!"
2013-11-28 20:30 <DocScrutinizer05> cdma allegedly is way more safe and technically superior. I have a hard time following that argument
2013-11-28 20:31 <DocScrutinizer05> anyway PXS8 is nice, and speaks UMTS and Verizon/Sprint CDMA2000
2013-11-28 20:32 <wpwrak> isn't it that some of the GSM bands of EU were already assigned in the US ? and perhaps vice versa
2013-11-28 20:32 <DocScrutinizer05> seems Canadians (and US residents) are mad for such a device
2013-11-28 20:32 <wpwrak> ;-)
2013-11-28 20:33 <wpwrak> desperate captive customers. we love them (-:C
2013-11-28 20:33 <DocScrutinizer05> wpwrak: the official explanation been sth along the line "900 is allocated to military already" - but that's been utter BS
2013-11-28 20:33 <wpwrak> ah yes, what's what i had heard as well
2013-11-28 20:33 <DocScrutinizer05> evidence: now they use 900 for UMTS
2013-11-28 20:34 <wpwrak> well, i'm sure they're not unhappy about the fragmentation.
2013-11-28 20:34 <DocScrutinizer05> exactly
2013-11-28 20:34 <wpwrak> could be that they were already retiring military use of 900. after all, quite a few years passed between GSM and UMTS.
2013-11-28 20:34 <DocScrutinizer05> market protection not by taxes but by technical means
2013-11-28 20:36 <DocScrutinizer05> wpwrak: military RF stuff has *always* means to use a wide range of frequencies, since they don't want to make it too simple for any enemy to build jammers
2013-11-28 20:39 <wpwrak> sure. but i guess they sill want "their" bands.
2013-11-28 20:40 <DocScrutinizer05> sure, they always want as much as they can get or defend
2013-11-28 20:40 <wpwrak> ;-)
2013-11-28 20:41 <DocScrutinizer05> after all they are THE MILITARY
2013-11-28 20:42 <DocScrutinizer05> not even police or governments have any word in what they're doing
2013-11-28 20:43 <wpwrak> in the good old times, warlords were the rulers, so the military got to do as it pleased.
2013-11-28 20:43 <DocScrutinizer05> john F. Kenedy had a pretty hard time to keep his military from using the nukes, back in cuba crisis
2013-11-28 20:43 <wpwrak> later on, civil governments were regularly toppled by military rulers, so the military still got to do as it pleased.
2013-11-28 20:44 <DocScrutinizer05> :nod:
2013-11-28 20:44 <wpwrak> nowadays, civil rulers are in charge permanently, and the milirary gets to do as it pleases.
2013-11-28 20:44 <wpwrak> the more things change, the more they stay the same :)
2013-11-28 20:44 <DocScrutinizer05> and civilians using RF technology, for *communication* DANG if they could they would stop it all together
2013-11-28 20:46 <DocScrutinizer05> nevertheless military may use whatever band they seem fit. So they generally wouldn't care too much about 900MHz if it wasn't some senator or some industry via a senator would suggest they should keep it, for sake of national markets
2013-11-28 20:48 <wpwrak> surreptitious use of the military for economic warfare on the home soil :)
2013-11-28 20:48 <DocScrutinizer05> after all if it really was important for them, they had kept it and UMTS wouldn't use it today. OR they don't need it and need to phase out some old technology that uses 900, so the sooner the better, for military POV
2013-11-28 20:49 <DocScrutinizer05> the sooner they get new weapons
2013-11-28 20:51 <wpwrak> well, the military tends to be slow. having a few fancy new drones doesn't mean that they don't still have bunkers full of WW2 ordnance
2013-11-28 20:51 <DocScrutinizer05> ooh, and killer argument: all military technology designed to work abroad, and they wouldn't want to see their cruise missiles or whatever fail in europe where 900MHz is used a lot, so they *mist* have means to cope with it
2013-11-28 20:52 <DocScrutinizer05> s/mist/MUST/
2013-11-28 20:52 <qi-bot> DocScrutinizer05 meant: "ooh, and killer argument: all military technology designed to work abroad, and they wouldn't want to see their cruise missiles or whatever fail in europe where 900MHz is used a lot, so they *MUST* have means to cope with it"
2013-11-28 20:53 <DocScrutinizer05> the non-mobile infra can't be much
2013-11-28 20:53 <wpwrak> well, their 900 MHz use may be for things that don't travel often
2013-11-28 20:53 <wpwrak> also, it would be easy enough to bomb all the 900 MHz transmitters in a target area
2013-11-28 20:54 <DocScrutinizer05> dang, that would look like WW-II
2013-11-28 20:54 <DocScrutinizer05> I guess we have ~5 stations per square km here, in urban areas
2013-11-28 20:57 <DocScrutinizer05> and when they ever need to use that 900MHz technology on their own territories, they don't even need to bomb the stations away, they could switch them off by the push of a single button
2013-11-28 20:57 <DocScrutinizer05> nah, a red herring
2013-11-28 20:57 <DocScrutinizer05> always been, everybody plainly could see
2013-11-28 20:58 <DocScrutinizer05> and the nice thing about "Military use!" excuse: nobody may ask for details
2013-11-28 20:59 <DocScrutinizer05> ;-P
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2013-11-28 22:52 <qwebirc16429> hello
2013-11-28 22:52 <qwebirc16429> greetings
2013-11-28 22:55 <wpwrak> around here, were's the impolite kind of bunch: we don't greet, we just say what's on our mind :)
2013-11-28 22:55 <qwebirc16429> was wondering whether the project in qi-hardware is still running as most of the info on the wiki are dated in 2011
2013-11-28 22:55 <qwebirc16429> wpwrak: thanks for the warning :)
2013-11-28 22:56 <wpwrak> well, which of the many little projects ? qi-hw is basically a collection of things
2013-11-28 22:56 <wpwrak> and yes, some things have fallen into disrepair
2013-11-28 22:56 <qwebirc16429> wpwrak: the ben nanonote
2013-11-28 22:58 <wpwrak> ah, that one is difficult. it still exists, some people are even getting new ones, but i don't see much development activity around it. and so far nobody is working on a successor.
2013-11-28 22:59 <qwebirc16429> wpwrak: i see...i'm interested to learn about hardware and was wondering which project are still active and kicking
2013-11-28 22:59 <qwebirc16429> wpwrak: thought of joining in a running project to learn about it and contribute time for it
2013-11-28 23:02 <wpwrak> let's see ... nanonote is all software these days, a lot of it in the kernel.
2013-11-28 23:03 <wpwrak> then there's anelok, which is small (1 person) but with potential to grow, there's mixxeo (1 person and a few helpful elves), there may be an fpgatools revival but i don't know if that one will involve actually making hardware
2013-11-28 23:05 <wpwrak> one projects that's being talked about here but that's independent from the qi-hw crowd is neo900.
2013-11-28 23:05 <qwebirc16429> can't seem to find info on anelok on the wiki page
2013-11-28 23:05 <qwebirc16429> neither is neo900
2013-11-28 23:05 <qwebirc16429> cool ... any page that i have a read about neo900 ?
2013-11-28 23:06 <wpwrak> anelok is here: https://gitorious.org/anelok/pages/Home
2013-11-28 23:06 <qwebirc16429> *can have a read
2013-11-28 23:06 <qwebirc16429> cool
2013-11-28 23:06 <wpwrak> a picture may say more than 1000 words: http://downloads.qi-hardware.com/people/werner/anelok/tmp/ybox-atusb.jpg
2013-11-28 23:07 <wpwrak> neo900 has a more polished presentation: http://neo900.org/
2013-11-28 23:07 <qwebirc16429> man i feel like a kid in a candy store now :)
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2013-11-28 23:07 <wpwrak> hehe :)
2013-11-28 23:07 <qwebirc16429> neo900 is soooo YUMMY !!!!
2013-11-28 23:07 <qwebirc16429> hahah
2013-11-28 23:07 <qwebirc16429> i start small first with anelok
2013-11-28 23:07 <qwebirc16429> seems like that project belongs to you :)
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2013-11-28 23:08 <wpwrak> yup, that's my baby :)
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2013-11-28 23:08 <qwebirc71006> sorry got cut off
2013-11-28 23:08 <wpwrak> yup, that's my baby :)
2013-11-28 23:08 <wpwrak> as you can see, still in its earliest infancy :)
2013-11-28 23:08 <qwebirc71006> wpwrak: the schematics for anelok is available right ?
2013-11-28 23:09 <wpwrak> sure: to look at them: http://downloads.qi-hardware.com/people/werner/anelok/tmp/anelok-20131005.pdf
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2013-11-28 23:10 <wpwrak> to edit them: https://gitorious.org/anelok/anelok/source/hw
2013-11-28 23:10 <qwebirc71006> wpwrak: cool...what design tool you normally use ?
2013-11-28 23:10 qwebirc71006 is now known as nicksydney
2013-11-28 23:11 <wpwrak> i use kicad
2013-11-28 23:11 <nicksydney> cool...will start looking at it
2013-11-28 23:11 <wpwrak> (so it's all open source)
2013-11-28 23:11 <nicksydney> will have a read and start downloading it .. will ping you if i have question
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2013-11-28 23:12 <wpwrak> kewl :)
2013-11-28 23:12 <wpwrak> ah, and you need to get a few more repos if you want to edit things
2013-11-28 23:12 <nicksydney> sure...tell me
2013-11-28 23:12 <wpwrak> from qi-hw, you need: eda-tools and kicad-libs
2013-11-28 23:13 <wpwrak> if you want to build the firmware, you also need ben-wpan
2013-11-28 23:13 <nicksydney> qi-hw repo is in ?
2013-11-28 23:13 <wpwrak> if you want to use any of the CAD things, you need fped and cae-tools
2013-11-28 23:14 <wpwrak> http://projects.qi-hardware.com/
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2013-11-28 23:14 <wpwrak> one of these days i should write a proper build guide with all the dependencies ...
2013-11-28 23:14 <nicksydney> i can write it while doing it at the same time
2013-11-28 23:15 <wpwrak> ... of course, since i'm the only one working on it at the moment, motivation is low :)
2013-11-28 23:15 <wpwrak> ah yes, that would be great
2013-11-28 23:16 <wpwrak> when starting from a working setup, you almost always miss some things
2013-11-28 23:16 <nicksydney> i'm confused these tools eda-tools, kicad-libs, ben-wpan, fped and cae-tools where is the repo...you point to projects.qi... website but there are many of those projects
2013-11-28 23:16 <wpwrak> http://projects.qi-hardware.com/index.php/p/eda-tools/source/help/
2013-11-28 23:16 <wpwrak> http://projects.qi-hardware.com/index.php/p/kicad-libs/source/help/
2013-11-28 23:16 <wpwrak> and so on
2013-11-28 23:18 <nicksydney> ok let me write it down as i do it
2013-11-28 23:18 <wpwrak> eda-tools are a few helper programs. the most important one is "dsv", which takes care of managing the data sheets
2013-11-28 23:19 <wpwrak> (after you check out the anelok repo, you run "make dsv", which downloads all the data sheets the project uses. then you a) have a local cache of them, and b) can display them with short names, e.g., "dsv kl25" for the data sheet of the MCU)
2013-11-28 23:19 <wpwrak> things are listed in the file BOOKSHELF
2013-11-28 23:20 <nicksydney> ok cool
2013-11-28 23:20 <wpwrak> kicad-libs has schematics symbols and footprints. and somewhat old catalog can be found here: http://downloads.qi-hardware.com/people/werner/tmp/kicad-libs-components.pdf http://downloads.qi-hardware.com/people/werner/tmp/kicad-libs-modules.pdf
2013-11-28 23:21 <wpwrak> (bah, should generate a new one ... that stuff is already a year old)
2013-11-28 23:21 <wpwrak> fped is the footprint editor. i also abuse it as parametric cad.
2013-11-28 23:22 <nicksydney> need to learn all the different jargon you are talking there :)
2013-11-28 23:22 <wpwrak> cae-tools is a bunch of programs to generate toolpaths for CNC machines and such. for making PCBs, milling cases, etc.
2013-11-28 23:22 <wpwrak> yeah, it's pretty "deep"
2013-11-28 23:22 <nicksydney> if you want to go full force might as well jump and make yourself very wet :)
2013-11-28 23:24 <wpwrak> that's the spirit ! :)
2013-11-28 23:24 <nicksydney> ok let me get back to work (it's morning here in the other side of the world) :)
2013-11-28 23:24 <nicksydney> will ping you when i'm stuck with something
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2013-11-28 23:24 <nicksydney> will do all these during lunch time
2013-11-28 23:24 <nicksydney> which is another 3 hours to go :)
2013-11-28 23:25 <wpwrak> alright. good luck ! :)
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2013-11-28 23:26 <wpwrak> 3 h ... seems late for sydney ?
2013-11-28 23:27 <nicksydney> yea
2013-11-28 23:27 <nicksydney> i'm working at home full time so i take lunch late
2013-11-28 23:28 <wpwrak> ah. working at home = lunch hours are around the clock :)
2013-11-28 23:28 <nicksydney> yup....and no time limit :)
2013-11-28 23:56 <wpwrak> DocScrutinizer05: (bunkers full of WW2 ordnance) btw, i meant this kind of story (the uss forrestal incident): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wh79MoHQk0o
2013-11-28 23:58 <DocScrutinizer05> UGH 90s and I'm feeling nausea from watching
2013-11-28 23:59 <wpwrak> 90s ? that was in 1967
2013-11-28 23:59 <DocScrutinizer05> docutainment for kids with nintendo defects and ADHS
2013-11-28 23:59 <DocScrutinizer05> 90 seconds
2013-11-28 23:59 <wpwrak> ah yes, they have a peculiar style. don't like it either. but the story is rather interesting.
2013-11-28 23:59 <DocScrutinizer05> blair witch style of camrea