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2013-11-04 02:25 <qi-bot> [commit] Werner Almesberger: cameo/fped2stl.pl: use "eq" for string equality, not "==" (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/cae-tools/3067665
2013-11-04 02:25 <qi-bot> [commit] Werner Almesberger: cameo/fped2d2z.pl: new options -x and -y to flip on X and Y axis (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/cae-tools/e82667e
2013-11-04 03:47 <roh> hm. whats this ybox for?
2013-11-04 03:49 <wpwrak> it's for connecting anelok in a host role to a device, with power coming from some USB power source. basically a "y-cable", but in the form of a box (y-cables with the desired characteristics don't seem to exist off the shelf)
2013-11-04 03:50 <whitequark> wpwrak: wait, you want to implement usb *host* in anelok? why?
2013-11-04 03:51 <wpwrak> schematics: http://downloads.qi-hardware.com/people/werner/anelok/tmp/ybox-20131025.pdf
2013-11-04 03:51 <wpwrak> whitequark: e.g., to connect a keyboard
2013-11-04 03:52 <wpwrak> be it for local editing (think password database management) or for a pass-through mode where you type on the keyboard and anelok sends your keystrokes to the pc (via rf).
2013-11-04 03:52 <whitequark> hm, sounds complicated
2013-11-04 03:53 <wpwrak> it is. there may be better ways to do this further down the road, but they would require more difficult electronics
2013-11-04 03:54 <wpwrak> e.g., i'd have to use a larger MCU. the one i use now has just one USB OTG port. a more streamlined design would need two ports.
2013-11-04 03:57 <whitequark> do you intend to get certifications on anelok?
2013-11-04 03:57 <whitequark> pretty sure usb expressly forbids that
2013-11-04 03:58 <wpwrak> one more reason not to waste money on such certificates :)
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2013-11-04 08:58 <DocScrutinizer05> hehe
2013-11-04 08:59 <DocScrutinizer05> there are certifications you should be proud of NOT being entitled to and NOT comply to their rules. USB cert is one of them, FSF free hardware is evidently another one
2013-11-04 09:05 <roh> heh. what fsf endorsed hw did get you in that mood?
2013-11-04 09:05 <ysionneau> what's wrong with USB cert ?
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2013-11-04 10:19 <DocScrutinizer05> GTA04, roh
2013-11-04 10:20 <DocScrutinizer05> the idiotic take of FSF on WLAN firmware blob
2013-11-04 10:22 <DocScrutinizer05> ysionneau: USB cert forbids certain function combinations and certain hw configs (more than one USB port in OTG devices for example). I don't like when cert authorities forbid me adding features to my hardware
2013-11-04 10:23 <larsc> so wpwrak wouldn't get a cert either way
2013-11-04 10:23 <DocScrutinizer05> wpwrak: ^^^ this would most likely make it pretty hard for ANELOK to get any USB cert anyway. So you better forget about it all together
2013-11-04 10:24 <DocScrutinizer05> after all who needs a "USB2.0OTG" stamp on a device? I raher have the function than the stamp
2013-11-04 10:25 <lekernel> the same people who needed me to have a "EHSM e.V." stamp for some paperwork, I guess
2013-11-04 10:25 <larsc> who were those people?
2013-11-04 10:26 <lekernel> bankers
2013-11-04 10:26 <lekernel> German bankers
2013-11-04 10:27 <DocScrutinizer05> only US bankers are worse
2013-11-04 10:32 <ysionneau> DocScrutinizer05: ah indeed :(
2013-11-04 10:32 <ysionneau> that sucks
2013-11-04 10:46 <DocScrutinizer05> BANG!!!!!
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2013-11-04 11:21 <DocScrutinizer05> ohwell, I wish Nikolaus already would fix the database to include the once-rejected and now re-confirmed donations
2013-11-04 11:22 <DocScrutinizer05> but... even WITH that 4k we're still missing a 130EUR
2013-11-04 11:22 <DocScrutinizer05> X-P
2013-11-04 11:23 <DocScrutinizer05> so my "BANG!!!" was maybe a tad premature
2013-11-04 11:27 <larsc> 25k already?
2013-11-04 11:41 <wpwrak> whoa ! now the big spenders have found you :)
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2013-11-04 11:59 <DocScrutinizer05> http://neo900.org/#donate
2013-11-04 12:00 <larsc> not bad
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2013-11-04 12:01 <wpwrak> congratulations ! that was quick :)
2013-11-04 12:03 <eintopf> what's a neo900? :-)
2013-11-04 12:03 <eintopf> :O a mobile phone with a keyboard
2013-11-04 12:03 <pcercuei> Commonly used
2013-11-04 12:03 <pcercuei> FPUs
2013-11-04 12:04 * pcercuei hates the "touchpad" and "copy-paste" combination
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2013-11-04 12:05 <wpwrak> touchpads are a disease
2013-11-04 12:07 <wpwrak> after many years of hard work, the engineers have finally discovered the worst possible solution for controlling a pointer on a mobile device. tired of choosing the lesser evil, then the whole industry enthusiastically adopted said solution.
2013-11-04 12:08 <whitequark> wpwrak: what's wrong with touchpads?
2013-11-04 12:08 <wpwrak> maybe we should learn from this and try to market anti-ESD mats made of kitten fur ...
2013-11-04 12:08 <whitequark> I find them OK as long as your UI is not mouse-centered (which is a bad idea either way)
2013-11-04 12:08 <wpwrak> like, everything ? :)
2013-11-04 12:09 <larsc> wpwrak: there is no pointer ;)
2013-11-04 12:09 <whitequark> idk. of course you would be dumb to use a touchpad in a CAD system
2013-11-04 12:09 <wpwrak> e.g., that your mouse pointer jumps around on the lightest brush, i.e., even if you didn't intend to operate the pad
2013-11-04 12:09 <whitequark> but for their use case (no space for external peripherals) they work well.
2013-11-04 12:10 <whitequark> wpwrak: you seem to use shitty touchpads
2013-11-04 12:10 <larsc> wpwrak: there is no mouse pointer on a pad
2013-11-04 12:10 <wpwrak> then they all now seem to implement tap to click, turning movement into accidental clicks
2013-11-04 12:10 <whitequark> that is configurable. synclient TapButton1=0
2013-11-04 12:10 <wpwrak> larsc: well yes, in a text console, a touch pad would probably be okay :)
2013-11-04 12:11 <larsc> you are thinking in desktop paradigms
2013-11-04 12:11 <whitequark> larsc: please, don't tell me you're a fan of "natural scrolling"
2013-11-04 12:12 <larsc> makes things easier
2013-11-04 12:12 <whitequark> I might not just talk to you anymore
2013-11-04 12:13 <wpwrak> whitequark: nice. didn't know that command. maybe it'll make the pain a little more bearable, thanks !
2013-11-04 12:14 <whitequark> wpwrak: I find recent (last 5yrs. check if it has two-finger scrolling) synaptics touchpads excellent.
2013-11-04 12:14 <whitequark> synclient also allows to configure the hell out of it if you don't like how it works.
2013-11-04 12:14 <whitequark> on the contrary, synaptics clones like alps/2 are completely unusable.
2013-11-04 12:18 <wpwrak> "TouchpadOff" looks useful ;-) should run some demon that binds it to a Fn key. first time that these would have a use ...
2013-11-04 12:18 <whitequark> you mean syndaemon? :)
2013-11-04 12:18 <whitequark> oh, syndaemon turns it off when you type on the keyboard
2013-11-04 12:19 <whitequark> Fn key is usually handled by xorg or acpi. xorg it is for me.
2013-11-04 12:21 <larsc> I have a alps/2 in my dell laptop, I can confirm that it is not the greatest
2013-11-04 12:21 <wpwrak> PalmDetect ? Jean-Luc, is it you ?
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2013-11-04 12:22 <larsc> the only laptop where I actually use a mouse
2013-11-04 12:23 <paul_boddie> Touchpad hate opportunity: clear my path!
2013-11-04 12:24 <wpwrak> it's like the batman sign in the skies of gotham city ;-)
2013-11-04 12:24 <paul_boddie> Encountered a Lenovo IdeaPad recently where the buttons were actually under the bottom part of the touchpad.
2013-11-04 12:25 <paul_boddie> In other words, the bottom left and right corner regions flexed to act as real buttons, but the regions were active parts of the touchpad.
2013-11-04 12:25 <DocScrutinizer05> [2013-11-04 13:18:10] <wpwrak> "TouchpadOff" looks useful ;-) should run some demon that binds it to a Fn key. first time that these would have a use ...
2013-11-04 12:25 <DocScrutinizer05> exactly what I did on my last 2 laptops
2013-11-04 12:26 <paul_boddie> Imagine clicking on anything when touching the buttons actually moves the pointer.
2013-11-04 12:27 <DocScrutinizer05> paul_boddie: ROTFL
2013-11-04 12:28 <DocScrutinizer05> failwale designer job
2013-11-04 12:29 <paul_boddie> In the shiny culture of today, ergonomics has been replaced by mild torture while idiots applaud and hope for their fifteen minutes of fame and validation.
2013-11-04 12:29 <paul_boddie> I bet the Lenovo "designer" involved uses a desktop computer.
2013-11-04 12:30 <wpwrak> so the voting machine parody video was actually sci-fi ... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gR3A9rG022M
2013-11-04 12:34 <paul_boddie> DocScrutinzer05: On that laptop, I ended up enabling the hateful tap-to-click and right-edge-scrolls gestures. That's how bad it was.
2013-11-04 12:35 <whitequark> paul_boddie: yes, this is very popular on today's laptops for some reason
2013-11-04 12:35 <whitequark> did they seriously saved like one hundredth of a cent by removing a single fucking button from a fucking laptop?!
2013-11-04 12:35 <whitequark> it's called "clickpad" btw. probs the most moronic invention in the pc industry EVER
2013-11-04 12:36 <paul_boddie> whitequark: The fake buttons? Or any buttons? Because on that Lenovo there were still buttons underneath.
2013-11-04 12:36 <whitequark> paul_boddie: my laptop has two buttons drawn but one physical button centered at the bottom of the touchpad.
2013-11-04 12:37 <whitequark> needless to say this isn't exactly user-friendly
2013-11-04 12:37 <paul_boddie> Horrid! It's like the buttons on my mouse (and most mice made now) which involve flexing of the plastic.
2013-11-04 12:38 <paul_boddie> At least the one I have now doesn't squeak when I press the buttons like the one I took back to the store.
2013-11-04 12:38 * DocScrutinizer05 pets his MX-Revo mouse and wonders what's wrong with flexing/bending the plastic
2013-11-04 12:38 <whitequark> um, I think mouse buttons worked by flexing the plastic since at least 1995 (I haven't seen anything older)
2013-11-04 12:38 <whitequark> yes what doc says
2013-11-04 12:39 <paul_boddie> You're probably right. I'm just looking at the mouse here and thinking that it doesn't look as robust as older mice.
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2013-11-04 12:40 <paul_boddie> I bet there's a homebrew mouse scene just like the homebrew keyboard scene where people choose specific kinds of switches and buttons to meet their very high standards.
2013-11-04 12:40 <whitequark> razer ?
2013-11-04 12:41 <whitequark> not homebrew I guess
2013-11-04 12:41 <DocScrutinizer05> actually my last model been a MouseMan Wheel and had read separate plastic buttons. It also had a 3*2*0.7cm steel plate inside to gain some weight
2013-11-04 12:41 <DocScrutinizer05> s/read/real/
2013-11-04 12:41 <qi-bot> DocScrutinizer05 meant: "actually my last model been a MouseMan Wheel and had real separate plastic buttons. It also had a 3*2*0.7cm steel plate inside to gain some weight"
2013-11-04 12:44 <DocScrutinizer05> http://maemo.cloud-7.de/share-service/20131104_001.jpg  http://maemo.cloud-7.de/share-service/20131104_002.jpg
2013-11-04 12:46 <whitequark> what do you think about http://www.fairphone.com/ ?
2013-11-04 12:47 <whitequark> idgaf about fairness, but it *seems* to say it's oshw?
2013-11-04 12:48 <larsc> looks like an interesting project
2013-11-04 12:49 <whitequark> the website is ridiculously uninformative. there's actually no mention of oshw, it's just some rebranded chinese android phone.
2013-11-04 12:49 <whitequark> MTK6589 haha
2013-11-04 12:50 <DocScrutinizer05> so are you still interested in my opinion or can you already guess?
2013-11-04 12:50 <whitequark> seems trivial enough
2013-11-04 12:51 <DocScrutinizer05> GOD is that boring when suddenly the trill decays
2013-11-04 12:51 <whitequark> "
2013-11-04 12:51 <whitequark> News on the phone body! The original model on which Fairphone was based formerly used normal polycarbonate. Now, we can announce that after quite some tests, our manufacturer made it possible to instead use post-consumer recycled polycarbonate. That means a lot of old devices being smashed, melted and reused! And fewer CO2 emissions, of course."
2013-11-04 12:51 * DocScrutinizer05 takes a deep breath for fist time since 5 days
2013-11-04 12:51 <whitequark> wow      such green     so cool
2013-11-04 12:51 <whitequark> *cough*
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2013-11-04 12:52 <DocScrutinizer05> so FAIR
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2013-11-04 12:53 <whitequark> DocScrutinizer05: ok so, I want your neo900
2013-11-04 12:53 <whitequark> but goldelico doesn't list russia as destination
2013-11-04 12:53 <whitequark> what do I do?
2013-11-04 12:53 <DocScrutinizer05> click on "Troubles with donation?"
2013-11-04 12:53 <whitequark> oh, dumb me
2013-11-04 12:54 <whitequark> why don't you accept bitcoins :D
2013-11-04 12:58 <DocScrutinizer05> because Tax department doesn't know what to do with bitcoins
2013-11-04 12:58 <DocScrutinizer05> this is a commercial site and under the rules of German taxation laws
2013-11-04 12:59 <whitequark> hm, I see. also didn't german banks decide how to tax it just recently?
2013-11-04 13:00 <DocScrutinizer05> dunno
2013-11-04 13:00 <DocScrutinizer05> I know for sure I can't have a bank account on bitcoins at DeutscheBank
2013-11-04 13:00 <whitequark> http://www.cnbc.com/id/100971898
2013-11-04 13:00 <whitequark> "Virtual currency bitcoin has been recognized by the German Finance Ministry as a "unit of account", meaning it is can be used for tax and trading purposes in the country."
2013-11-04 13:01 <DocScrutinizer05> mhm, interesting. Thanks
2013-11-04 13:02 <wpwrak> "[...] bitcoin, as it could become an alternative to the euro if the single currency ever ceased to exist," yeah, i want some of that stuff too ;-)
2013-11-04 13:02 <whitequark> hahaha
2013-11-04 13:02 <whitequark> well, it's NBC, what do you expect?
2013-11-04 13:02 <DocScrutinizer05> whitequark: could you please add this link to your mail to info at goldeico ?
2013-11-04 13:03 <whitequark> DocScrutinizer05: already sent that, I can mention in a reply
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2013-11-04 13:08 <ysionneau> bitcoin could never become an alternative to any money AFAIK
2013-11-04 13:08 <ysionneau> since it is limited in time
2013-11-04 13:08 <ysionneau> there is a limited amount of bitcoins
2013-11-04 13:08 <ysionneau> quite limited AFAIK
2013-11-04 13:08 <ysionneau> it's just an experiment
2013-11-04 13:08 <ysionneau> maybe the next iteration of the principle will be :)
2013-11-04 13:08 <whitequark> ysionneau: sorry but that's really misguided
2013-11-04 13:09 <ysionneau> that's what I understood at least
2013-11-04 13:09 <whitequark> bitcoins are infinitely divisible
2013-11-04 13:09 <whitequark> well, not true infinitely, but for all practical purposes they are
2013-11-04 13:09 <ysionneau> oh
2013-11-04 13:09 <ysionneau> so we can just change the value of a bitcoin
2013-11-04 13:09 <ysionneau> and use sub bitcoins
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2013-11-04 13:09 <whitequark> yeah, at some point we'll just be operating nanobitcoins or something
2013-11-04 13:10 <ysionneau> because by becoming more rare, it will become more expensive anyway?
2013-11-04 13:10 <ysionneau> ah, ok
2013-11-04 13:10 <ysionneau> so forget what I just said :)
2013-11-04 13:10 <whitequark> yes, kind of
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2013-11-04 13:10 <whitequark> whether the resulting deflation will kill it is subject for intensive debate.
2013-11-04 13:10 <whitequark> :)
2013-11-04 13:10 <ysionneau> ah, so maybe I'm right, but not sure
2013-11-04 13:10 <ysionneau> okok
2013-11-04 13:11 <whitequark> well, no one really knows at this point, but it definitely doesn't contain planned obsolescence
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2013-11-04 13:17 <paul_boddie> About the Fairphone, although I think their ethical focus is outstanding, they let themselves down by not considering the technological issues.
2013-11-04 13:19 <paul_boddie> There may be more blatant problems in how you source your minerals, but how you source your components and software also has implications.
2013-11-04 13:19 <whitequark> I'm not sure how exactly a phone manufactured in china may be considered ethical in any respect
2013-11-04 13:23 <paul_boddie> Well, the Neo900 - at least the board - won't leave any doubts, surely. Made in Bavaria, I guess. :-)
2013-11-04 13:25 <dos1> yup
2013-11-04 13:25 <whitequark> paul_boddie: *I* don't care whether the phone is done ethically. but those folks are hypocritical.
2013-11-04 13:26 <paul_boddie> I think they started out with a nice idea - get minerals from good places - and tried to run with it, but maybe they didn't know how far they'd need to run to satisfy everyone.
2013-11-04 13:29 <wpwrak> well, let one group top-down and the other bottom-up. maybe they'll meet somewhere in the middle.
2013-11-04 13:29 <wpwrak> s/group /group work/
2013-11-04 13:29 <qi-bot> wpwrak meant: "well, let one group worktop-down and the other bottom-up. maybe they'll meet somewhere in the middle."
2013-11-04 13:29 <wpwrak> well, close enough :)
2013-11-04 13:30 <DocScrutinizer05> I think they fell for same trap like FSF - you can't build your own chips, and you can't turn around a tank like AMD or TI to make them produce chips *you* wnat to see, in a way *you* want then to get done
2013-11-04 13:30 <paul_boddie> One would hope so. The Fairphone people did get some people to work on the OS, but it remains to be seen how genuinely open that work is. And there's quite a gap between that and the minerals.
2013-11-04 13:31 <paul_boddie> I don't think they tried to get anyone to build anything, really, or nothing like ICs. They perhaps got some component manufacturers to promise to use their ethically-sourced minerals, as I understand it.
2013-11-04 13:32 <DocScrutinizer05> which is wishful thinking
2013-11-04 13:32 <wpwrak> they could be successful in the sense of creating awareness that the origin of those minerals matters at all. of course, many of these minerals don't really seem to be necessary anyway, so ...
2013-11-04 13:33 <paul_boddie> Yes, you would need to supervise those manufacturers quite closely.
2013-11-04 13:33 <wpwrak> e.g., if i want to avoid "exploitative" tantalum, who not just avoid tantalum entirely ?
2013-11-04 13:33 <paul_boddie> Of course, some of this stuff would be easier to do if they attempted to do it on the same continent.
2013-11-04 13:34 <whitequark> wpwrak: because you want nice capacitors? :)
2013-11-04 13:45 <whitequark> by the way, since when donations are subject to VAT?
2013-11-04 13:50 <paul_boddie> I wondered about that, but I can imagine that if they count towards a purchase then they incur VAT.
2013-11-04 13:50 <wpwrak> whitequark: is there anything tantalum is better at than modern ceramics ?
2013-11-04 13:52 <roh> wpwrak: esr stuff and low temperatures
2013-11-04 13:54 <whitequark> *of course* goldelico's payment processor refused my card. sigh
2013-11-04 13:54 <whitequark> this would be the first time in three years anything ever refused to accept a card
2013-11-04 14:00 <ysionneau> neo900 reached 25k :)
2013-11-04 14:00 <ysionneau> maybe you already know.
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2013-11-04 14:01 <whitequark> ysionneau: I know, I just want a nice phone
2013-11-04 14:02 * ysionneau just received the email
2013-11-04 14:02 <whitequark> considering that unlike kickstarters joerg has a track record of delivering :)
2013-11-04 14:02 <ysionneau> is it the same joerg as the NetBSD/llvm developer ?
2013-11-04 14:02 <whitequark> DocScrutinizer05: are you?
2013-11-04 14:03 <ysionneau> ah no it's Jörg sonnenberger (for netbsd/llvm)
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2013-11-04 14:14 <wpwrak> roh: i kinda wonder what ESR those ceramic critters really have. it's usually no specified, but virtually everywhere where tantalum is recommended because of ESR, they say that ceramic will do, too. so it may only matter at the extreme end of the range, e.g., << 100 mOhm
2013-11-04 14:17 <roh> i've seen switching regulators which really need tantallum
2013-11-04 14:17 <roh> ceramics makes them ripple more and sometimes even oscillate. depends on what temperature range you design for
2013-11-04 14:17 <roh> and <<100mohm is obviois.
2013-11-04 14:18 <wpwrak> temperature range seems to be pretty much the same. (when picking random ones. again, maybe there's a difference at the extreme range.)
2013-11-04 14:18 <roh> irgh. obvious... ive recently worked on a design which had a regulator in front of a 3g modem, since the voltage from the battery would drop too far when on the low end of the designed temp range, so we needed a boost
2013-11-04 14:19 <roh> we made it work with 150mohm, but usual working range is better than 100, usually around 50 minimum.
2013-11-04 14:19 <wpwrak> (obvious) tantalum go up to a few Ohm. so low ESR isn't implied at all
2013-11-04 14:20 <roh> ah. now i understand. yes. sure. but the ones which one selects when only tantallum is a choice... ;)
2013-11-04 14:20 <wpwrak> okay :)
2013-11-04 14:21 <roh> also ceramics have funny effects.. they are 'wrong value' when unsoldered and only get the right one when soldered with the right solding process and temperature curve
2013-11-04 14:21 <wpwrak> really ?
2013-11-04 14:21 <wpwrak> how wrong ?
2013-11-04 14:21 <roh> up to 50%
2013-11-04 14:22 <roh> there are 1% types which are more than 30% off, and after soldering properly by spec they are within that 1% margin
2013-11-04 14:22 <roh> elektor also had an article about that
2013-11-04 14:23 <DocScrutinizer05> also ceramic lose capacity with volatge applied
2013-11-04 14:23 <wpwrak> ("burn-in") wow. that's what i call precision engineering :)
2013-11-04 14:24 <DocScrutinizer05> and they tend to have that nasty piezo effect
2013-11-04 14:24 <DocScrutinizer05> generally ceramic are non-linear
2013-11-04 14:26 <wpwrak> yes, piezo could be a real issue
2013-11-04 14:29 <sanderr> Argh.. every time I see ESR, I read Eric S. Raymond. Guess I'm too much into FOSS. :)
2013-11-04 14:30 <sanderr> But that ESR doesn't mix well with low Ohm values.
2013-11-04 14:48 <larsc> Electro Static Recharge?
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2013-11-04 15:00 <sanderr> larsc: No, it Equivalent Series Resistance in this case.
2013-11-04 15:04 <larsc> I know, just trying to be funny ;)
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2013-11-04 16:28 <wpwrak> Ethereal String Resonance
2013-11-04 16:29 <wpwrak> hmm, that could be the title of a big bang theory episode :)
2013-11-04 16:30 <whitequark> /r/bandnames
2013-11-04 16:31 <whitequark> actually, one sec
2013-11-04 16:32 <dos1> https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d1/Office_in_the_train_-_Ben_NanoNote.jpg
2013-11-04 16:32 <dos1> three things one needs to be happy :)
2013-11-04 16:34 <wpwrak> it would be so much more fun to serve a product called "illy" on a boat, were severe motion sickness is quite a possibility
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2013-11-04 16:39 <whitequark> wpwrak: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eddy_Current_Suppression_Ring
2013-11-04 16:39 <whitequark> *not* what you'd expect.
2013-11-04 16:42 <wpwrak> heh, indeed ;-)
2013-11-04 16:43 <whitequark> the music is meh
2013-11-04 16:43 <whitequark> but the name is great.
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2013-11-04 17:35 <dos1> DocScrutinizer05: Neo900 request - support IEEE 802.15.4 for atben compatibility! :D
2013-11-04 17:45 <wpwrak> if the uSD slot is externally accessible or can be made accessible, you could just plug in an atben.
2013-11-04 17:45 <wpwrak> else, you'd depend on having enough "embedded air" to add a board. that may be trickier.
2013-11-04 17:50 <dos1> with some "mugen cover" it could maybe work after making a small hole in it
2013-11-04 17:50 <dos1> but that's not very convienent solution :P
2013-11-04 17:59 <wpwrak> it's generally hard to add that sort of extension to a high-density device. that you could do such things at all with the openmoko phones says something about the efficiency of the case design.
2013-11-04 18:02 <dos1> that's why I'm requesting it before it gets designed ;)
2013-11-04 18:03 <dos1> two-pcb sandwich approach may give us additional space for crazy stuff, and *maybe* it would be feasible to consider 802.15.4
2013-11-04 18:04 <dos1> probably at low priority, but still, that would be fancy ;)
2013-11-04 18:04 <wpwrak> some TPs and a bit of free space in that general area would be nice for this sort of projects. not sure if they have room, though
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2013-11-04 19:06 <wpwrak> hmm. cut a 1.6 mm board with 0.8 mm settings. what could possibly go wrong ? :(
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