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2013-11-01 04:47 <whitequark> https://developer.android.com/about/versions/kitkat.html
2013-11-01 04:47 <whitequark> you can hate on android all you want, but they really got their shit together in the last few releases and made a great OS
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2013-11-01 04:54 <wpwrak> colorful :)
2013-11-01 04:54 <wpwrak> i'd go right to cyanogenmod, though. the only real chance for long-term updates.
2013-11-01 04:56 <whitequark> sure, for me android pretty much equates with CM or replicant :)
2013-11-01 04:56 <whitequark> nexuses got a decent upgrade schedule, but CM still beats them on everything
2013-11-01 04:56 <whitequark> ... except proprietary lock-in
2013-11-01 05:06 <wpwrak> damn. not having that wuold really suck ;-)
2013-11-01 05:08 <whitequark> yeah. I mean, NSA should have all my data too, right?!
2013-11-01 05:08 <whitequark> heard of latest Snowden reveal? NSA tapped into Google's privately *owned* fiber between their privately *owned* DCs without Google's knowledge
2013-11-01 05:08 <whitequark> bet they're pissed off now
2013-11-01 05:13 <wpwrak> they shouldn't be pissed off. they should build data centers elsewhere. actually, they've been doing this for a while already ...
2013-11-01 05:14 <whitequark> I doubt they could stop building datacenters in US, though
2013-11-01 05:15 <whitequark> hm.
2013-11-01 05:15 <whitequark> or maybe they can? what's worse, the stick of losing your customer's data or the carrot of having response time under 100ms?
2013-11-01 05:19 <roh> they're talking about crypting more stuff now
2013-11-01 05:20 <wpwrak> they can build the everywhere, then choose a date replication algorithm that keeps non-US things outside the US
2013-11-01 05:20 <roh> right direction...but only partially helpful tho ;)
2013-11-01 05:20 <roh> in the end... its a us company
2013-11-01 05:21 <roh> but hey.. multinational companies often move if pissed off enough
2013-11-01 05:23 <whitequark> roh: yeah, it's been for a while
2013-11-01 05:23 <whitequark> wpwrak: I think that's pretty much what amazon does
2013-11-01 05:23 <whitequark> guess that's we'll see soon
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2013-11-01 12:10 <qi-bot> [commit] Werner Almesberger: ircstat/ML: update for 10/2013 (master) http://qi-hw.com/p/wernermisc/a804f35
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2013-11-01 15:44 <wpwrak> DocScrutinizer05: kewl, you already passed 5k and do the design work
2013-11-01 15:45 <wpwrak> DocScrutinizer05: btw, the funding page is nicely done. a bit of pleasant visuals goes a long way :) plus, you have good information there, too
2013-11-01 15:48 <DocScrutinizer05> thanks
2013-11-01 15:48 <DocScrutinizer05> sebastian's work
2013-11-01 15:49 <DocScrutinizer05> he even couldn't resist to integrate an easter egg
2013-11-01 15:50 <DocScrutinizer05> wich i'll use if some user asks for pink ponies again
2013-11-01 15:50 <DocScrutinizer05> ;-)
2013-11-01 15:52 <wpwrak> ;-))
2013-11-01 15:57 <cde> DocScrutinizer05: easter egg?
2013-11-01 16:02 <DocScrutinizer05> ponies
2013-11-01 16:04 <wpwrak> pink easter ponies
2013-11-01 16:09 <DocScrutinizer05> the angry blue one is scary
2013-11-01 16:10 <DocScrutinizer05> the magic one
2013-11-01 16:10 <DocScrutinizer05> well, I think they all are magic
2013-11-01 16:11 <cde> I don't follow. do you have a link?
2013-11-01 16:11 <DocScrutinizer05> number 8
2013-11-01 16:11 <DocScrutinizer05> #ponies
2013-11-01 16:11 <DocScrutinizer05> ooh, it's called the shadowbolt
2013-11-01 16:12 <DocScrutinizer05> err nope?
2013-11-01 16:12 <cde> wat
2013-11-01 16:12 <DocScrutinizer05> #13 is a dragon :-O
2013-11-01 16:15 <wpwrak> cde: wikia has an article on them: http://falloutequestria.wikia.com/wiki/Shadowbolts
2013-11-01 16:16 <cde> oh wow
2013-11-01 16:19 <DocScrutinizer05> GOD a pinao pony
2013-11-01 16:19 <DocScrutinizer05> piano*
2013-11-01 16:20 <DocScrutinizer05> AAH, the *.gif context gives it away, I meant the nightguard
2013-11-01 16:20 <DocScrutinizer05> https://raw.github.com/dos1/Browser-Ponies/gh-pages/ponies/royal night guard/nightguard_left.gif
2013-11-01 16:22 <DocScrutinizer05> https://raw.github.com/dos1/Browser-Ponies/gh-pages/ponies/iron will/ironwill_walk_left.gif LOL
2013-11-01 16:25 <DocScrutinizer05> GOD! they are army  -  https://github.com/dos1/Browser-Ponies/tree/gh-pages/ponies/
2013-11-01 16:30 <DocScrutinizer05> a wabbit a wabbit
2013-11-01 16:33 <DocScrutinizer05> ok, this starts to eat significant parts of my CPU and RAM now, so time to stop it.  http://wstaw.org/m/2013/11/01/plasma-desktopyx3743.png
2013-11-01 16:33 <cde> this is insane
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2013-11-01 16:33 <DocScrutinizer05> this is what you get from Friday and holiday, after a very exhausting Thursday
2013-11-01 16:35 <DocScrutinizer05> with funny stuff like 1, ... 2, 3 donations a 4kEUR, then zilch since all three were hoax
2013-11-01 16:35 <DocScrutinizer05> FSFE zealots bitching at real life properties of WLAN chips
2013-11-01 16:36 <DocScrutinizer05> Brasilia no valid destination for online shopping/shipping of any goods
2013-11-01 16:36 <DocScrutinizer05> and 3 dozen other funny things
2013-11-01 16:36 <DocScrutinizer05> incl slashdot
2013-11-01 16:37 <cde> well thanks to FSFE zealots we now have fully blob-free WLAN drivers
2013-11-01 16:37 <DocScrutinizer05> tell me more about it
2013-11-01 16:38 <cde> https://github.com/qca/open-ath9k-htc-firmware
2013-11-01 16:38 <DocScrutinizer05> particularly tell me how you get a blob-free hardmac running, for PSM without hogging AÜE CPU
2013-11-01 16:38 <cde> PCI/PCIe don't actually require a blob, the latency of the bus is low enough
2013-11-01 16:38 <DocScrutinizer05> APE*
2013-11-01 16:39 <DocScrutinizer05> well, embedded usually has no PCI/PCIe
2013-11-01 16:39 <cde> correct
2013-11-01 16:40 <DocScrutinizer05> and latency of a CPU in zero-clock mode is low, but not THAT low
2013-11-01 16:40 <cde> also correct
2013-11-01 16:41 <DocScrutinizer05> tbh I prefer a blob to a firmware in some fused flashrom inside the WLAN chip
2013-11-01 16:41 <DocScrutinizer05> at least I can update the blob any time
2013-11-01 16:41 <DocScrutinizer05> and I can RE it, if I can
2013-11-01 16:42 <cde> well the flash can also be updated; unless you meant an actual rom
2013-11-01 16:42 <DocScrutinizer05> THAT however usually requires WINDOWS blobs apps
2013-11-01 16:43 <DocScrutinizer05> since chip manuf doesn't bother to ship a FOSS linux tool to do such update
2013-11-01 16:43 <DocScrutinizer05> so the FW blob you load in chip init time is the clearly better alternative
2013-11-01 16:44 <DocScrutinizer05> s/ in / on
2013-11-01 16:44 <qi-bot> DocScrutinizer05 meant: "so the FW blob you load on chip init time is the clearly better alternative"
2013-11-01 16:45 <cde> ok
2013-11-01 16:45 <DocScrutinizer05> and the heck I have no problems whatsoever with a blob of DATA on my linux system, fsck GNU and RMS
2013-11-01 16:46 <DocScrutinizer05> the assumption that such *data* was a *program* relevant for GNU is erratic anyway
2013-11-01 16:48 <cde> so you are willing to surrender your freedom for a little bit of convenience?
2013-11-01 16:48 <DocScrutinizer05> was it this very cahnnel or another one where I stated just today: "why is a closed source program allowed when it runs in user land on a GNU linux system, but _not_ allowed when I offload it to a coprocessor located on a peropheral chip?"
2013-11-01 16:48 <DocScrutinizer05> au contraire, cde. I *insist* in my freedom to use and tamper with such blobs
2013-11-01 16:49 <cde> that's good
2013-11-01 16:49 <cde> but you shouldn't give your moneys to companies that sell you hw with blobs
2013-11-01 16:50 <DocScrutinizer05> well, I can as well keep my money and eat it
2013-11-01 16:50 <DocScrutinizer05> but it's not as tasty
2013-11-01 16:50 <DocScrutinizer05> IOW: there is no choice
2013-11-01 16:50 <cde> there is a choice. for example you can choose not to buy Apple hardware
2013-11-01 16:51 <DocScrutinizer05> well, I can as well keep my money and eat it
2013-11-01 16:51 <DocScrutinizer05> oh, I already said that
2013-11-01 16:51 <cde> also, you can choose not to buy on Amazon to protest their DRM policies
2013-11-01 16:52 <DocScrutinizer05> I can also choose to not breathe anymore
2013-11-01 16:52 <cde> yes. to protest the fact that the universe is not free software
2013-11-01 16:52 <DocScrutinizer05> don't tell me about my choices to NOT do something
2013-11-01 16:53 <DocScrutinizer05> since that's a) obvious and trivial, and b) leading nowhere
2013-11-01 16:53 <cde> correct
2013-11-01 16:53 <DocScrutinizer05> tell me which choice I have for a WLAN chip that can do hardmac and still offers packet injection, firmware update, and monitor mode
2013-11-01 16:54 <DocScrutinizer05> I'd actually be happy when you come up with *any* other choice than "not do it"
2013-11-01 16:56 <DocScrutinizer05> but honestly, I'm not too interested in perpetuating the debate with that other guy as of yesterday
2013-11-01 16:57 <DocScrutinizer05> it ended in him revoking his donation since Neo900 wasn't able to offer the WLAN pink ponies he hoped for
2013-11-01 16:59 <DocScrutinizer05> and I wasted ~90min on that
2013-11-01 16:59 <DocScrutinizer05> so on the end he asked "tell me is the wlan chip sharing RAM with the CPU"
2013-11-01 17:00 <DocScrutinizer05> then he revoked his donation after we told him that it#s connected via SPI
2013-11-01 17:00 <DocScrutinizer05> futile effort to discuss with those zealots
2013-11-01 17:00 <cde> any ath9k-based chip really. such as http://dx.com/p/802-11n-150mbps-wifi-wlan-wireless-network-usb-adapter-53538
2013-11-01 17:01 <DocScrutinizer05> fine, I'll happily check it
2013-11-01 17:01 <DocScrutinizer05> thanks
2013-11-01 17:01 <cde> np. there is also https://www.thinkpenguin.com/gnu-linux/penguin-wireless-n-usb-adapter-gnu-linux-tpe-n150usb which is FSF certified
2013-11-01 17:01 <DocScrutinizer05> it's not like we are averse against freedom and FOSS, you know ;-)
2013-11-01 17:02 <cde> yes. we also both like ponies, but in moderate amounts
2013-11-01 17:02 <DocScrutinizer05> just we need a hardmac chip (aka 'cpu on chip, so main CPU can sleep and chip handles PSM')
2013-11-01 17:03 <DocScrutinizer05> which rules out all softmak (driver runs on APE CPU) solutions
2013-11-01 17:03 <DocScrutinizer05> softmac even
2013-11-01 17:04 <cde> afaik all USB-based solutions are softmac due to the high latency of the bus. unfortunately you can't wake up the CPU with USB
2013-11-01 17:04 <DocScrutinizer05> ideally we find a chip that can do both hardmac and softmac - iirc the prism54 been such a critter
2013-11-01 17:05 <DocScrutinizer05> err, that would rather speak for hardmac
2013-11-01 17:05 <cde> yes, that's what I meant. the MAC runs on the stick
2013-11-01 17:05 <DocScrutinizer05> right
2013-11-01 17:06 <cde> a way to do what you need is to identify a GPIO out of the AR9271 chip that could be used to wake the CPU which would then proceed with the transfer over USB
2013-11-01 17:06 <DocScrutinizer05> though via USB you can control the RF lowlevel, the bandwidth is sufficient and the CPU usually strong enough (heck it even can do SDR)
2013-11-01 17:07 <DocScrutinizer05> USB sticks usually are used on laptops and the like, where CPU never sleeps
2013-11-01 17:08 <DocScrutinizer05> and I think for softmac drivers it's not relevant which interface is used to attach the WLAN radio
2013-11-01 17:09 <DocScrutinizer05> the prism54 softmac worked fro USB dongles
2013-11-01 17:09 <DocScrutinizer05> for*
2013-11-01 17:10 <DocScrutinizer05> it had a FOSS softmac, a blob hardmac firmware, and they worked on a FOSS hardmac firmware
2013-11-01 17:10 <DocScrutinizer05> the latter never got finished afaik
2013-11-01 17:10 <DocScrutinizer05> too many mysteries inside the chip
2013-11-01 17:15 <cde> yes that is sad
2013-11-01 17:16 <cde> lekernel did in fact some amazing work on it
2013-11-01 17:17 <lekernel> and then found out about FPGAs
2013-11-01 17:17 <lekernel> :)
2013-11-01 17:18 <lekernel> we had a bunch of things working nevertheless. UART, GPIO, USB, PCI, some of the crypto acceleration, and most of the transceiver
2013-11-01 17:20 <DocScrutinizer05> anyway: http://privatepaste.com/4df9cc6030
2013-11-01 17:20 <DocScrutinizer05> is what we're confronted with
2013-11-01 17:24 <DocScrutinizer05> mandatory features for WLAN: PSM/low-power_always-on, 54Mb, independant operation (no constant support from main CPU), monitor mode. Almost mandatory: packet injection. Nice to have: no blobs
2013-11-01 17:26 <DocScrutinizer05> if any of the hardcore freedom lovers wants us to change those priorities, then they need to come up with a suggestion how to handle that in a way so the other 99.9% of users are also satisfied
2013-11-01 17:27 <DocScrutinizer05> ooh I forgot: small package
2013-11-01 17:27 <DocScrutinizer05> and a useful hw interface
2013-11-01 17:28 <DocScrutinizer05> and full documentation aka available drivers in linux
2013-11-01 17:28 <DocScrutinizer05> FOSS drivers
2013-11-01 17:29 <DocScrutinizer05> we're appreciating all help we can get on identifying the right chip for us
2013-11-01 17:29 <DocScrutinizer05> if it then is also sourcable in small quatities, all the better (euphemism!)
2013-11-01 17:31 <DocScrutinizer05> we'll happily use any chip you manage to come up with, as long as it satisfies the above requirements
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2013-11-01 17:46 <whitequark> hey folks, do you possibly know what *module* one could use for 6lowpan?
2013-11-01 17:46 <whitequark> not on-chip RF.
2013-11-01 17:47 <mth> DocScrutinizer05: in the GCW Zero is a Realtek 8188CUS; it's far from perfect but it is usable
2013-11-01 17:47 <mth> there is a mainline kernel driver, but that doesn't actually work when we test it (handshaking with AP gets stuck)
2013-11-01 17:48 <DocScrutinizer05> o.O
2013-11-01 17:48 <mth> there is a driver from Realtek itself that works, but is huge and ugly code
2013-11-01 17:48 <DocScrutinizer05> ooh
2013-11-01 17:48 <mth> it has a blob in the wifi chip itself, but everything that runs on the CPU is open source
2013-11-01 17:49 <mth> apparently the 8188CUS is no longer available, but the 8188EUS is and it's pretty similar
2013-11-01 17:49 <mth> I noticed in his github that Larry Finger is cleaning up the driver code for the EUS
2013-11-01 17:49 <DocScrutinizer05> yeah, I'm sure we had that one on our radar
2013-11-01 17:49 <mth> but I don't have the EUS hardware yet, so I can't test it
2013-11-01 17:50 <DocScrutinizer05> oops, nope, W2CBW003  8686
2013-11-01 17:50 <DocScrutinizer05> W2CBW0015 8787
2013-11-01 17:51 <DocScrutinizer05> TiWi 5/6/7/8
2013-11-01 17:52 <DocScrutinizer05> jorJin
2013-11-01 17:52 <DocScrutinizer05> I'll have a look into the realtek 8188
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2013-11-01 17:57 * DocScrutinizer05 wonders if we should set up a wiki page based on the feasibility study
2013-11-01 17:58 <DocScrutinizer05> you're aware of the feasibility study, are you?
2013-11-01 18:01 <DocScrutinizer05> http://projects.goldelico.com/p/neo900/downloads/53/
2013-11-01 18:20 <roh> working hardmac wifi? bwahahahahaha
2013-11-01 18:21 <roh> sorry.. but you already lost.
2013-11-01 18:21 <roh> doesnt exist atheros usb chipsets are as near as it gets
2013-11-01 18:23 <roh> most important: n support. in front of anything else on wifi.
2013-11-01 18:24 <roh> loads of people disable b/g support nowadays and i've seen routers delivered that way in the stock firmware
2013-11-01 18:24 <mth> I hadn't seen that study yet
2013-11-01 18:25 <roh> me neither.. nice work
2013-11-01 18:27 <roh> my best guess would be ar9170 or something near that series
2013-11-01 18:28 <roh> but i havent checked module avail or how big these are
2013-11-01 18:31 <roh> anyhow.. whichever vendor makes the race.. there needs to be some way to flash/ramload that hardmac to be able to update its firmware (closed or not) and a proper process to get these. i got quite some devices around which basically arent useable anymore due to 'too old wifi'
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2013-11-01 18:37 <wpwrak> DocScrutinizer05: what's PSM ?
2013-11-01 18:37 <cde> indeed, what's PSM?
2013-11-01 18:40 <roh> *sigh* .. it seems the only hardmac i find which does 'proper' ap mode now is ar6kl
2013-11-01 18:41 <roh> no monitor mode tho
2013-11-01 18:42 <wpwrak> i've received some somewhat enigmatic hints that it may be possible to adapt the brcm80211 driver also for the BCM43362. this would be a very embedded-friendly chip (apart from its current closedness)
2013-11-01 18:42 <cde> what's wrong with ath9k? seems the most foss friendly wifi
2013-11-01 18:44 <wpwrak> it has binary-only firmware, potentially with redistribution issues. but i guess these could be worked around. with modules available.
2013-11-01 18:44 <cde> the feasibility study is cool but it doesn't change the core problem which is the lack of open-source baseband
2013-11-01 18:45 <wpwrak> mth: and yes, the Realtek is an old but apparently viable alternative. olimex use it, too.
2013-11-01 18:46 <wpwrak> whitequark: why do you need a module ? it's easy enough to build with chips
2013-11-01 18:47 <whitequark> wpwrak: let's say a novice in electronics wants to build one
2013-11-01 18:47 <whitequark> well, a system on top of one
2013-11-01 18:47 <whitequark> easy enough for you with how much decades of experience? three? :)
2013-11-01 18:48 <roh> cde: softmac, not intended for embedded
2013-11-01 18:48 <wpwrak> whitequark: does the result pass certifications ? or is it sufficient if it just works ?
2013-11-01 18:48 <whitequark> just works
2013-11-01 18:48 <roh> atleast not for stuff such low-power
2013-11-01 18:48 <cde> roh: not the wifi, the gsm/umts part (option)
2013-11-01 18:48 <DocScrutinizer05> wpwrak: PowerSavingMode
2013-11-01 18:48 <cde> it's orders of magnitude more complex
2013-11-01 18:49 <wpwrak> whitequark: then he could just copy any of my rf230 designs. there are now three tested ones to choose from: atben, atusb, and antorcha (function tested but rf performance not quantified). anelok probably works, too.
2013-11-01 18:50 <wpwrak> whitequark: if he really really doesn't want to touch chips, he could find a GPIO-programmable uSD slot and toss in an atben.
2013-11-01 18:50 <whitequark> wpwrak: yup, sounds doable
2013-11-01 18:50 <roh> cde: ah. hm... is it thin (the module)
2013-11-01 18:50 <roh> ?
2013-11-01 18:51 <roh> btw.. http://wireless.kernel.org/en/users/Drivers seems to be the best table ive seen so far about what exists and how the support is arm
2013-11-01 18:51 <cde> I'm not following
2013-11-01 18:51 <whitequark> wpwrak: that's what I thought
2013-11-01 18:51 <DocScrutinizer05> http://wiki.maemo.org/Wifi_Power_Saving_Mode_(PSM)
2013-11-01 18:52 <wpwrak> whitequark: here's for example an atben in an STM32-E407: https://github.com/frtos-wpan/frtos-wpan/blob/master/doc/evb/e407-atben.jpg
2013-11-01 18:52 <whitequark> wpwrak: how complex is the bitbang iface?
2013-11-01 18:52 <wpwrak> here with an adapter board in a WM09 eval board: https://github.com/frtos-wpan/frtos-wpan/blob/master/doc/evb/wm09-dev9.jpg
2013-11-01 18:53 <wpwrak> they all "work", though RF not quantified
2013-11-01 18:54 <wpwrak> whitequark: pretty easy. you implement SPI and then it's a few register reads and writes. complexity is more in the higher layers.
2013-11-01 18:54 <whitequark> what does it implement? PHY/MAC?
2013-11-01 18:55 <wpwrak> PHY and a bit of MAC, yes (CSMA, auto-ACK, etc.)
2013-11-01 18:55 <whitequark> cool
2013-11-01 18:55 <whitequark> thanks
2013-11-01 18:59 <DocScrutinizer05> wpwrak: http://www.google.de/search?q=wifi+PSM
2013-11-01 18:59 <DocScrutinizer05> cde: ^^^
2013-11-01 19:01 <dos1> [19:44] <cde> the feasibility study is cool but it doesn't change the core problem which is the lack of open-source baseband
2013-11-01 19:01 <cde> thanks DocScrutinizer05
2013-11-01 19:01 <dos1> and that problem will persist for very long time
2013-11-01 19:01 <cde> unless we tackle it
2013-11-01 19:01 <dos1> as it's pretty impossible to do properly and legally
2013-11-01 19:02 <cde> it is actually. use a faraday cage
2013-11-01 19:02 <dos1> unless you don't want to use it :P
2013-11-01 19:02 <cde> yes true
2013-11-01 19:02 <wpwrak> dos1: doing it properly alone would be a challenge. legally, well, you could probably always sell it as "lab equipment" :)
2013-11-01 19:03 <wpwrak> else, pretend its purpose it to spy on friends. that seems to be a good enough excuse
2013-11-01 19:05 <DocScrutinizer05> good luck with UMTS, even more you'll need it with LTE
2013-11-01 19:08 <DocScrutinizer05> in ST-E a team of ~500 worked for ~1 year to make the UMTS&LTE stack work so that we could do first tests in carrier networks, and even then a 10min without breakdown of the connection were a huge success
2013-11-01 19:08 <cde> yep. I know someone who used to work there
2013-11-01 19:08 <cde> they sold everything to Broadcom, very sad
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2013-11-01 19:11 <whitequark> DocScrutinizer05: 500!!!
2013-11-01 19:11 <whitequark> fuck.
2013-11-01 19:11 <whitequark> did you rewrite the damn thing from scratch?
2013-11-01 19:11 <DocScrutinizer05> and compared to LTE the CMU200 you need to check what your homegrown GSM stack does OTA is just the spare money
2013-11-01 19:12 <wpwrak> making something work can sometimes take many times the effort of doing it from scratch ...
2013-11-01 19:13 <DocScrutinizer05> dunno what you refer to, but ST baked the chip and ST & Ericsson built the UMTS and LTE radio stack from scratch and  made it work
2013-11-01 19:13 <DocScrutinizer05> google for NovaThor
2013-11-01 19:13 <whitequark> DocScrutinizer05: I thought vendors just pull through the decades-old code
2013-11-01 19:14 <wpwrak> seems that they were smarter than to do that :)
2013-11-01 19:14 <larsc> until things collapse over them
2013-11-01 19:14 <DocScrutinizer05> actually we didn't re-use the code of the previous chip generation
2013-11-01 19:15 <DocScrutinizer05> we peaked a lot
2013-11-01 19:15 <DocScrutinizer05> peeked
2013-11-01 19:15 <wpwrak> peeked ?
2013-11-01 19:15 <wpwrak> ah :)
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2013-11-01 19:15 <wpwrak> that's usually the most efficient approach
2013-11-01 19:15 <wpwrak> do it your way but let existing proven code help you to find it
2013-11-01 19:16 <larsc> but sometimes it's just NIH
2013-11-01 19:16 <DocScrutinizer05> sometimes, yeah
2013-11-01 19:17 <DocScrutinizer05> when ST contributed ugly code that been replaced by other ugly code from Ericsson ;-P
2013-11-01 19:18 <cde> DocScrutinizer05, NovaThor uses a modem from renesas right? (previously nokia)
2013-11-01 19:19 <cde> afaik their new lte stuff was only used by Samsung
2013-11-01 19:19 <DocScrutinizer05> anyway, I see the probability to see a community-driven FOSS LTE stack any time soon to be == 0.000000000000001%/year
2013-11-01 19:19 <cde> it was to be used in the new LTE NovaThor which sadly never came to be
2013-11-01 19:19 <cde> well we have openlte which is already somewhat advanced
2013-11-01 19:19 <DocScrutinizer05> the modem is from ST
2013-11-01 19:19 <DocScrutinizer05> ST micro
2013-11-01 19:20 <DocScrutinizer05> and customers were all the big names
2013-11-01 19:20 <DocScrutinizer05> even Nokia, before they canceled that
2013-11-01 19:20 <cde> DocScrutinizer05, are you talking about samsung? they used ST-E chips in a couple of phones
2013-11-01 19:21 <DocScrutinizer05> I'm talking about ST-E NovaThor chip
2013-11-01 19:21 <cde> I meant the customers
2013-11-01 19:21 <DocScrutinizer05> yes, Samsung used them
2013-11-01 19:21 <DocScrutinizer05> rim, LG, dunno whom
2013-11-01 19:21 <DocScrutinizer05> nokia
2013-11-01 19:22 <cde> but they failed, ultimately. now Qualcomm has all the market
2013-11-01 19:23 <DocScrutinizer05> possible
2013-11-01 19:23 <DocScrutinizer05> i left there a year ago
2013-11-01 19:23 <DocScrutinizer05> and probably for a reason
2013-11-01 19:24 <cde> oh, you worked at ST-E? very cool! were you at the Rennes site?
2013-11-01 19:24 <DocScrutinizer05> Nuernberg
2013-11-01 19:24 <DocScrutinizer05> datacom
2013-11-01 19:24 <cde> I see. well you were right to leave I guess. did you also work on the baseband?
2013-11-01 19:25 <DocScrutinizer05> nope, datacom
2013-11-01 19:25 <DocScrutinizer05> Nuernberg radio stack been 2 floors below my desk
2013-11-01 19:25 <DocScrutinizer05> I had the joy to deal with all the interfaces
2013-11-01 19:25 <DocScrutinizer05> HSI, UART, you name it
2013-11-01 19:26 <DocScrutinizer05> shared RAM :-o
2013-11-01 19:29 <DocScrutinizer05> but
2013-11-01 19:30 <DocScrutinizer05> but Nuernberg had only a part of the radio stack team
2013-11-01 19:30 <DocScrutinizer05> and part of the chip makers
2013-11-01 19:30 <cde> btw fun fact: NovaThor uses the plan9 filesystem :)
2013-11-01 19:31 <larsc> SmartIron: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-news-from-elsewhere-24707337
2013-11-01 19:31 <DocScrutinizer05> err, sounds somewhat familiar
2013-11-01 19:33 <DocScrutinizer05> larsc: ohmy
2013-11-01 19:34 <DocScrutinizer05> a little pcb with a microphone that infects all comouters with unprotected wifi in 600m radius, suuuure
2013-11-01 19:35 <DocScrutinizer05> ooops 600ft
2013-11-01 19:35 <DocScrutinizer05> silly enough
2013-11-01 19:37 <dos1> very clever idea though :)
2013-11-01 19:37 <DocScrutinizer05> I don't see how that flies
2013-11-01 19:38 <dos1> I mean, including wifi chipsets in devices like irons to send spam
2013-11-01 19:38 <dos1> brilliant, who would guess it? :D
2013-11-01 19:38 <DocScrutinizer05> maybe used as actual eavesdropping devices and sending the recorded audio via unprotected WiFi they find
2013-11-01 19:39 <DocScrutinizer05> ooh, that. Yeah that's probably actually feasible
2013-11-01 19:39 <larsc> the mic is probably in there because it was on the pcb anyway
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2013-11-01 19:40 <DocScrutinizer05> honestly you'd need more than a internet connection to send out spam
2013-11-01 19:40 <DocScrutinizer05> doesn't sound plausible to me
2013-11-01 19:41 <dos1> replace sending spam with any other malware activity
2013-11-01 19:41 <DocScrutinizer05> why should you use a hijacked internet via open AP, when all you get is... internet. Which is dirt cheap anyway
2013-11-01 19:42 <DocScrutinizer05> it's about abusing the IT infra, thus about infecting PCs
2013-11-01 19:43 <DocScrutinizer05> you possibly could do that better from inside a WLAN rather than from outside, but if that really accounts for the expense and effort of that approach
2013-11-01 19:43 <DocScrutinizer05> sounds like a hoax to me
2013-11-01 19:43 <dos1> possibly
2013-11-01 19:44 <dos1> but still, neat idea
2013-11-01 19:44 <dos1> and scary
2013-11-01 19:46 <dos1> if you'd have to carefully check what sits in every electric device you own to just feel safe, that certainly wouldn't be fun
2013-11-01 19:46 <DocScrutinizer05> I think hijacked routermodems are waaaay more scary
2013-11-01 19:46 <DocScrutinizer05> and we seen that only a month ago
2013-11-01 19:46 <dos1> :nod:
2013-11-01 19:46 <DocScrutinizer05> with a lot of D-Link
2013-11-01 19:48 <DocScrutinizer05> I'd get really scared when the blackhats manage to hijack the DSL-multiplexers
2013-11-01 19:48 <DocScrutinizer05> or the real routers, like cisco
2013-11-01 19:49 <DocScrutinizer05> but I guess NSA would kick them off their lawn in a millisecond
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2013-11-01 20:23 <whitequark> DocScrutinizer05: they do
2013-11-01 20:23 <whitequark> for a long time
2013-11-01 20:23 <DocScrutinizer05> I bet on that
2013-11-01 20:23 <DocScrutinizer05> particularly in china et al
2013-11-01 20:24 <DocScrutinizer05> ;-P
2013-11-01 20:24 <DocScrutinizer05> was it micro-VAX where they actually implemented hw-backdoor?
2013-11-01 20:25 <whitequark> btw talking about modems
2013-11-01 20:25 <DocScrutinizer05> or was it DECstation?
2013-11-01 20:25 <whitequark> http://internetcensus2012.bitbucket.org/paper.html
2013-11-01 20:25 <whitequark> someone made a botnet of several 100k's of vulnerable modems (think admin/admin) and portscanned /0
2013-11-01 20:26 <DocScrutinizer05> hehehehe
2013-11-01 20:26 <DocScrutinizer05> which brand/make?
2013-11-01 20:27 <whitequark> various
2013-11-01 20:27 <whitequark> I think they hijacked an existing botnet with a vulnerability
2013-11-01 20:29 <whitequark> read the paper, it's very fascinating
2013-11-01 20:34 <DocScrutinizer05> indeed
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2013-11-01 21:25 <DocScrutinizer05> HEHE  >>We would also like to mention that building and running a gigantic botnet and then watching it as it scans nothing less than the whole Internet at rates of billions of IPs per hour over and over again is really as much fun as it sounds like.<<
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