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2013-10-15 01:34 <DocScrutinizer05> ysionneau: thanks for the heads-up
2013-10-15 01:48 <DocScrutinizer05> wpwrak: >>the content jumps vertically about once every 1000 screen updates<< burn-in protection
2013-10-15 01:48 <DocScrutinizer05> I'm pretty sure it's a feature, not a bug ;-)
2013-10-15 01:49 <wpwrak> yeah. or maybe it's just happy and jumps for joy ;-)
2013-10-15 01:49 <DocScrutinizer05> at least I've seen similar behaviour on several screens
2013-10-15 01:50 <DocScrutinizer05> early LCD had sth similar, when they still had issues with electrode deterioration
2013-10-15 01:50 <DocScrutinizer05> and of course plasma screens
2013-10-15 01:50 <DocScrutinizer05> funny enough CRT rarely ever did that
2013-10-15 01:51 <DocScrutinizer05> despite they as well had burn-in problems
2013-10-15 01:51 <DocScrutinizer05> my current LG TV jumps the "NO SIGNAL" message all across the screen, every 5 seconds
2013-10-15 01:51 <wpwrak> it only happens when transferring data. static content is stable forever.
2013-10-15 01:52 <wpwrak> could of course be a botched burn-in protection ;-)
2013-10-15 01:52 <DocScrutinizer05> yeah, they for sure don't have a timer on board in the OLED, eh?
2013-10-15 01:53 <wpwrak> well, who knows what magic the controller chip can do :)
2013-10-15 01:53 <DocScrutinizer05> it's definitely botched as otherwise they would move slowly up and down, instead of jumping
2013-10-15 01:54 <DocScrutinizer05> but that would cost a more complex loop, with maybe 50 bytes more code
2013-10-15 01:54 <DocScrutinizer05> plus one bit more storage, for the up/down flag
2013-10-15 01:57 <DocScrutinizer05> for the boost: it's prolly normal that there's a low-ESR path from input to output, as long as it's a step-up converter
2013-10-15 01:57 <DocScrutinizer05> not though for chargepumps
2013-10-15 01:58 <DocScrutinizer05> I think I don't have the schematics open here ATM
2013-10-15 01:58 <DocScrutinizer05> so I can't tell for sure what's up
2013-10-15 02:00 <wpwrak> there are FETs in the chip that could cut the path. but they don't. ah well.
2013-10-15 02:00 <wpwrak> and yes, it's a step-up converter: http://www.skyworksinc.com/uploads/documents/AAT1217_202050B.pdf
2013-10-15 02:02 <DocScrutinizer05> hah, step up. always has a virtual diode forwarding input thru choke to output
2013-10-15 02:03 <DocScrutinizer05> those critters also don't really current-limit. You can pull mega-amps from output at input voltage
2013-10-15 02:04 <wpwrak> i'm sure that, for a few picoseconds, you can :)
2013-10-15 02:05 <DocScrutinizer05> hehe, hardly, the inductance of the pin is too high
2013-10-15 02:06 <wpwrak> but then there's the parasitic capacitance. a while 5 pF, all yours to burn ;-)
2013-10-15 02:06 <wpwrak> s/while/whole/
2013-10-15 02:06 <qi-bot> wpwrak meant: "but then there's the parasitic capacitance. a whole 5 pF, all yours to burn ;-)"
2013-10-15 02:06 <DocScrutinizer05> yeah, the block diagram of the chip *suggests* it has a switch that cuts out output. But that isn't meant to work that way, and you don't know what P/N-gaps are *really* on the die
2013-10-15 02:08 <DocScrutinizer05> could even be OVP or clamp diodes
2013-10-15 02:10 <DocScrutinizer05> see figure 1 in http://www.skyworksinc.com/uploads/documents/AAT1217_202050B.pdf
2013-10-15 02:13 <DocScrutinizer05> > >In conventional synchronous step-up converters, a con -duction path exists from input to output through th ebackgate (body diode) of the P-channel MOSFET durin gshutdown. Special application circuitry can disconnect th eload from the battery during shutdown (see Figure 1).<<
2013-10-15 02:14 <DocScrutinizer05> it's all already there ;-)
2013-10-15 02:15 <DocScrutinizer05> and i'm once again lucky that my uneducated blbla was in line with the explanation in the datasheet ;-P
2013-10-15 02:15 <wpwrak> ah yes, that's where they were hiding it. thanks :)
2013-10-15 02:15 <wpwrak> hehe ;-)
2013-10-15 02:17 <wpwrak> interesting that they mix FET and BJT, instead of just using two FETs
2013-10-15 02:17 <DocScrutinizer05> BJT?
2013-10-15 02:17 <DocScrutinizer05> aah
2013-10-15 02:18 <wpwrak> Bipolar Junction Transistor
2013-10-15 02:18 <DocScrutinizer05> more interesting are the 2%..3% higher efficiency with an external schottky
2013-10-15 02:21 <wpwrak> yeah, burning 1.5 uA in the transistor is still about an order of magnitude below that
2013-10-15 02:22 <DocScrutinizer05> wtf is the deal with FB?
2013-10-15 02:22 <DocScrutinizer05> or rather, with R1, R2
2013-10-15 02:23 <DocScrutinizer05> are they for decoration?
2013-10-15 02:29 <wpwrak> it's for the adjustable version
2013-10-15 02:29 <wpwrak> i picked the fixed version, which has them inside the chip
2013-10-15 02:30 <DocScrutinizer05> weird, they say >>The AAT1217 has two fixed output voltage options: 3.3 Vand 5V. An internal resistor divider is connected to th eFB pin inside the package which eliminates the need fo rexternal feedback resistors.<< Still they mention the external R1/R2 dimensioning for exactly those two output voltages. And use the only values for R1/R2 in the application note that doesn't make any sense at all
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2013-10-15 02:34 <DocScrutinizer05> this seems pretty important to me: >>In applications where th einput power source lead inductance cannot be reduce dto a level that does not affect the converter perfor -mance, a high ESR tantalum or aluminum electrolyti ccapacitor should be placed in parallel with the low ESR ,ESL bypass input ceramic capacitor. The introduction o fthe high ESR capacitor dampens the high Q network an dstabilizes the AAT1217.<<
2013-10-15 02:38 <DocScrutinizer05> though they write it's usually not a problem for PCB with their short traces, I'd rather not rely on it, particularly when using a CR2032 as input, and when shielding and EMI is a concern
2013-10-15 02:38 <wpwrak> well, someone may prefer to buy just the adjustable version and add cheap resistors.
2013-10-15 02:38 <DocScrutinizer05> ooh there are different versions?
2013-10-15 02:39 <wpwrak> see page 12 :)
2013-10-15 02:40 <DocScrutinizer05> AAAH I see
2013-10-15 02:40 <DocScrutinizer05> -1.2 -3.3
2013-10-15 02:40 <wpwrak> 1.2, confusingly, isn't 1.2 V but 1.2 A ;-)
2013-10-15 02:40 <DocScrutinizer05> duh, 1.2Ampere?
2013-10-15 02:41 <DocScrutinizer05> that's.... o.O
2013-10-15 02:42 <wpwrak> well, or maybe MHz. can be either.
2013-10-15 02:42 <wpwrak> in any case, it's not V ;-)
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2013-10-15 02:46 <wpwrak> at least it's not gigaparsecs per pound force :)
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2013-10-15 02:49 <DocScrutinizer05> ok, finished my "breakfast"
2013-10-15 02:49 <DocScrutinizer05> (iow closed the pdf-reader)
2013-10-15 02:51 <wpwrak> tasty little pixels :)
2013-10-15 02:52 <DocScrutinizer05> yeah, I wonder if it was Wolfgang who minted the "eats datasheets for breakfast"
2013-10-15 02:52 <wpwrak> anyway, i need to see if the display will actually draw the advertized current in sleep mode. maybe i just got that wrong. if it's happy with 1-2 uA, then i won't bother trying to beat that
2013-10-15 02:53 <wpwrak> :)
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2013-10-15 02:54 <DocScrutinizer05> beware of dangling floating inputs
2013-10-15 02:54 <DocScrutinizer05> they easily cause excess quiescent
2013-10-15 02:55 <wpwrak> i may have held the chip in reset. could be that it didn't like that.
2013-10-15 02:55 <DocScrutinizer05> (sorry for mentioning it)
2013-10-15 02:55 <DocScrutinizer05> yep, sure
2013-10-15 02:55 <wpwrak> while (reset) try_to_get_out();
2013-10-15 02:56 <DocScrutinizer05> reset pulls low quite a number of internal reset inputs
2013-10-15 02:57 <wpwrak> i usually try all the likely combinations, see which ones actually result in the lowest current. sometimes, doing it "wrong" works best.
2013-10-15 02:57 <DocScrutinizer05> so it can be _very_ power hungry
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2013-10-15 11:46 <DocScrutinizer05> wpwrak: in austria we can't finance the Neo900 with down payments. It's forbidden to accept money from non-bank persons/entities and pay interest for it. Only banks may do that :-o I guess austria is quite silly a country
2013-10-15 11:48 <roh> DocScrutinizer05: it gets much more complicated than that ;)
2013-10-15 11:48 <DocScrutinizer05> even more funny, it's not the private person that's lending the money and accepts the interest on top of payback who's getting sued but the one who takes the money
2013-10-15 11:49 <roh> DocScrutinizer05: remember the tax stuff for gta01?
2013-10-15 11:49 <DocScrutinizer05> no
2013-10-15 11:49 <DocScrutinizer05> been ante Joerg
2013-10-15 11:49 <roh> shipping from california.. means: sales tax depends to which us state or country you sell to
2013-10-15 11:50 <DocScrutinizer05> ooh
2013-10-15 11:50 <roh> but when you ship from california to california... its gets more complicated.. then there is sales tax depending on the district.
2013-10-15 11:50 <DocScrutinizer05> yeah, USA are also weird
2013-10-15 11:50 <roh> total mindfuck. i typed in dozends of different tax levels into that stuff
2013-10-15 11:50 <DocScrutinizer05> eeew
2013-10-15 11:50 <roh> and it changed multiple times. thats why we went shopify later...
2013-10-15 11:50 <DocScrutinizer05> shopify?
2013-10-15 11:51 <roh> because there was also the issue of different shipping prices depending on the wherefrom, whereto etc
2013-10-15 11:51 <roh> DocScrutinizer05: webshop-application-logic and maintainance service
2013-10-15 11:51 <DocScrutinizer05> mhm
2013-10-15 11:51 <DocScrutinizer05> well, I never looked into that ;-P
2013-10-15 11:52 <roh> they run the shop and the servers, and take care of such nasty details... and stuff like ups shipping price calculation... i nearly went mad till i found that
2013-10-15 11:52 <DocScrutinizer05> or actually I might have done, at a time when GTA01 wasn't available anymore
2013-10-15 11:52 <roh> and that was before i went checking out how to accept a creditcard internationally
2013-10-15 11:52 <DocScrutinizer05> ouch
2013-10-15 11:53 <DocScrutinizer05> steer clear of credit cards
2013-10-15 11:53 <roh> not possible when you want to sell in the 3rd world
2013-10-15 11:53 <DocScrutinizer05> yep
2013-10-15 11:53 <roh> ;)
2013-10-15 11:56 <DocScrutinizer05> It still strikes me funny that in Austria no money lending as long as not one of the 2 entities is a bank
2013-10-15 11:57 <DocScrutinizer05> dumbnuts
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2013-10-15 12:13 <whitequark> use bitcoin !
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2013-10-15 12:16 <viric> damn bitcoin
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2013-10-15 13:46 <wpwrak> use silk road ! ;-)
2013-10-15 13:47 <wpwrak> DocScrutinizer05: i didn't spend enough time in austria to know about such details :) but i wonder whether this actually applies to you - if you sell something in .de, are you obliged to find out whether there are local .at laws that affect it ?
2013-10-15 13:48 <wpwrak> DocScrutinizer05: besides, is this really an "interest" ? i can't imagine that discounts and such are forbidden in austria.
2013-10-15 13:49 <viric> wpwrak: hm what was that silk road?
2013-10-15 13:50 <viric> I think I recently saw it, and I forgot all again
2013-10-15 13:50 <viric> aaah yes, it was in the news.
2013-10-15 13:51 <viric> "FBI seized over 26,000 BTC"
2013-10-15 13:52 <viric> I imagine my parents hearing that in the news... fun.
2013-10-15 13:53 <wpwrak> ;-)
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2013-10-15 13:54 <larsc> how is that worse than s/BTC/USD/ ?
2013-10-15 13:56 <wpwrak> i think it's 1 BTC = 150 USD or such, so it's about 150 times worse
2013-10-15 13:56 <whitequark> I think the guy got around $60m or something, in total
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2013-10-15 19:21 <DocScrutinizer05> http://maemo.cloud-7.de/share-service/20131015_006.jpg
2013-10-15 19:25 <wpwrak> hmm, i guess i'll have to quote from "Loreley" (?) :)
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2013-10-15 20:29 <apelete> larsc: Hi, are you there ?
2013-10-15 20:31 <larsc> 5 minutes
2013-10-15 20:33 <apelete> 'kay
2013-10-15 20:33 <apelete> I'm trying to figure out how to implement dma interrupt for jz4740
2013-10-15 20:34 <larsc> hm, we never used dma with the current driver
2013-10-15 20:34 <apelete> I don't know if the jz4740 is able to use Mentor Graphic's Inventra dma engine
2013-10-15 20:34 <apelete> larsc: udc driver does not implement dma ?
2013-10-15 20:34 <larsc> there is supposed to be dma support but it is not really documented in the datasheet
2013-10-15 20:35 <apelete> I saw that
2013-10-15 20:35 <larsc> the udc driver implements it, but it is disabled by default
2013-10-15 20:36 <apelete> do you think we could use the Inventra dma engine for the musb glue layer or not ?
2013-10-15 20:36 <larsc> I don't know
2013-10-15 20:37 <apelete> hmm, looks like dma is going to be a tricky part :-)
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2013-10-15 20:38 <apelete> I tried using the interrupt function from ux500.c, but I'm getting the error messages:
2013-10-15 20:38 <apelete> musb-hdrc musb-hdrc.0.auto: No DMA interrupt line!
2013-10-15 20:38 <apelete> musb-hdrc: probe of musb-hdrc.0.auto failed with error -22
2013-10-15 20:38 <apelete> musb-hdrc musb-hdrc.0.auto: musb_init_controller failed with status -22
2013-10-15 20:39 <apelete> larsc: well, won't hold you longer, maybe we can discuss this another time
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