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2013-10-08 00:05 <DocScrutinizer05> hah, nice
2013-10-08 00:06 <DocScrutinizer05> I don't think they will create that oled transparent
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2013-10-08 08:13 <wpwrak> hmm, the middle button of my mouse seems to have died suddenly :( first time something like that happens
2013-10-08 08:14 <viric> you need a mouse without mechanical parts
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2013-10-08 08:17 <wpwrak> or with better mechanical parts
2013-10-08 08:18 <wpwrak> that mouse wasn't even particularly old
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2013-10-08 08:22 <unclouded> mice seem to be going downhill recently.  I had fairly pricey Logitech RMB fail on me recently
2013-10-08 08:29 <wpwrak> this one's a logitech, too. M215. i liked that it ran off a non-rechargeable battery.
2013-10-08 08:29 <wpwrak> logitech's web site is refreshingly honest: http://www.logitech.com/en-us/product/wireless-mouse-m185?crid=7
2013-10-08 08:30 <wpwrak> lots of bad reviews
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2013-10-08 08:42 <viric> I just buy a laser mouse at the nearest shop
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2013-10-08 08:43 <viric> if within two years it breaks, I return it
2013-10-08 08:43 <viric> and get one new for free
2013-10-08 08:45 <unclouded> nice shop.  I've also got a M905, which is so beautifully made that you'd hardly believe that it was made by the same people who put the appalling G500s that went wrong
2013-10-08 08:45 <unclouded> s/put/made/
2013-10-08 08:45 <qi-bot> unclouded meant: "nice shop.  I've also got a M905, which is so beautifully made that you'd hardly believe that it was made by the same people who made the appalling G500s that went wrong"
2013-10-08 08:50 <wpwrak> i guess i'll get another M200 +/- 15. the fancier models all may need a special setup on the pc.
2013-10-08 08:54 <unclouded> the M905 doesn't.  The unifying feature doesn't work on Linux apparently but just using as a normal USB mouse works fine
2013-10-08 08:54 <unclouded> it does really work on glass tabletops and mirrors too
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2013-10-08 08:56 <wpwrak> my my desk's solid wood. any at no risk of getting too clean for the mouse to have something to recognize :)
2013-10-08 08:57 <viric> I always use a mouse carpet, with a textile-like surface.
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2013-10-08 09:41 <wpwrak> hmm, have to add an n-FET to the card power switch. else, it'll go "always on" when the battery gets low enough that Vbat + the FET's threshold voltage < 3.3 V (+ margin)
2013-10-08 09:41 <wpwrak> with the threshold as low as 0.45 V, that can happen relatively easily
2013-10-08 09:42 <wpwrak> it's good that there's plenty of room for this kind of rework under the OLED ;-)
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2013-10-08 10:38 <larsc> d
2013-10-08 10:38 <larsc> ups
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2013-10-08 14:17 <larsc> does anybody happen to know by chance what populates /dev/ on ubuntu these days? Is this done by upstart?
2013-10-08 14:20 <pcercuei> devtmpfs
2013-10-08 14:23 <larsc> hm, not on my machine, strage
2013-10-08 14:24 <viric> devtmpfs is very old
2013-10-08 14:24 <viric> udev does
2013-10-08 14:25 <pcercuei> no
2013-10-08 14:25 <pcercuei> udev requires devtmpfs
2013-10-08 14:25 <viric> mh
2013-10-08 14:25 <viric> ok, you win.
2013-10-08 14:25 <viric> I've devtmpfs here, but not ubuntu.
2013-10-08 14:25 <pcercuei> devfs is old, devtmpfs is not
2013-10-08 14:25 <viric> none on /dev type devtmpfs (rw,relatime,size=202716k,nr_inodes=497343,mode=755)
2013-10-08 14:25 <viric> 200MB. looks like too much.
2013-10-08 14:27 <pcercuei> larsc:
2013-10-08 14:27 <pcercuei> cat /sys/kernel/uevent_helper
2013-10-08 14:28 <larsc> /sbin/hotplug
2013-10-08 14:28 <pcercuei> on my Debian, it doesn't return anything (because it uses devtmpfs)
2013-10-08 14:29 <pcercuei> maybe it's upstart then
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2013-10-08 14:29 <larsc> but I have no /sbin/hotplug on my system...
2013-10-08 14:29 <pcercuei> and /dev is tmpfs?
2013-10-08 14:30 <larsc> no
2013-10-08 14:30 <larsc> realfs
2013-10-08 14:30 <pcercuei> ugh
2013-10-08 14:30 <pcercuei> I have no idea what "realfs" is
2013-10-08 14:30 <larsc> non-tmp fs ;)
2013-10-08 14:31 <larsc> there is nothing special mounted at /dev
2013-10-08 14:31 <pcercuei> /sbin/hotplug might exist... inside the initramfs
2013-10-08 14:32 <larsc> hm, which I do not have
2013-10-08 14:32 <pcercuei> why do you use ubuntu anyway? :o
2013-10-08 14:32 <larsc> linaro ubuntu
2013-10-08 14:33 <larsc> on one of the arm boards
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2013-10-08 16:39 <paul_boddie> Anyone here have any experience with Linux cdc_adm and serial-over-USB?
2013-10-08 16:39 <paul_boddie> I saw that wpwrak had his name on some Openmoko software of that nature. ;-)
2013-10-08 16:40 <larsc> I used it back in the openmoko days
2013-10-08 16:41 <paul_boddie> Did you ever experience problems with the device it created? Not the problem half the Internet has with modem-manager wanting to own it, but with the driver not apparently listening on the IN endpoint.
2013-10-08 16:43 * paul_boddie notes that Amarok on KDE 4 is such a joke these days. Let's not play music any more, then!
2013-10-08 16:44 <wpwrak> use mocp :)
2013-10-08 16:45 <paul_boddie> If KDE were a reality show, half of the applications would have been voted off in KDE season 4.
2013-10-08 16:50 <paul_boddie> With regard to cdc_acm, I'm trying out some AVR USB stuff that times out when trying to send to an IN endpoint, and I wondered if there was some known issues with the cdc_acm driver.
2013-10-08 16:50 <paul_boddie> s/IN endpoint/IN endpoint on the host/
2013-10-08 16:50 <qi-bot> paul_boddie meant: "With regard to cdc_acm, I'm trying out some AVR USB stuff that times out when trying to send to an IN endpoint on the host, and I wondered if there was some known issues with the cdc_acm driver."
2013-10-08 16:51 <paul_boddie> s/was some/were some/
2013-10-08 16:51 <qi-bot> paul_boddie meant: "With regard to cdc_acm, I'm trying out some AVR USB stuff that times out when trying to send to an IN endpoint on the host, and I wondered if there were some known issues with the cdc_acm driver."
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2013-10-08 16:52 <DocScrutinizer05> qi-bot, the better edlin
2013-10-08 16:53 <paul_boddie> Yes, the Internet can still learn from the "old school" tools.
2013-10-08 16:54 <paul_boddie> DocScrutinizer05: Was entertained/appalled by some of the messages on the Neo900 Maemo talk thread.
2013-10-08 16:55 <paul_boddie> The mental model of how hardware gets to the shops seems to involve pixies and unicorns for some people. ;-)
2013-10-08 16:55 <DocScrutinizer05> yep
2013-10-08 16:57 <paul_boddie> Or a secret Nokia factory still producing the devices in stealth mode and giving them away because they aren't allowed to sell them any more.
2013-10-08 16:57 <paul_boddie> Being forced to do so by an armed unicorn.
2013-10-08 16:58 <DocScrutinizer05> the same unicorn that fires his shrink-gun at the chips
2013-10-08 16:59 <larsc> paul_boddie: never had any problems with the driver
2013-10-08 16:59 <paul_boddie> larsc: OK. Thanks for the negative result. ;-)
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2013-10-08 17:01 <larsc> it's probably some kind of combination between avr and driver
2013-10-08 17:02 <paul_boddie> Yes, reading the driver source code can be a real eye-opener sometimes.
2013-10-08 17:03 <paul_boddie> The device gets created but the AVR thinks its FIFO isn't ready for sending. The weird thing is that I tried an example using HID events and that works.
2013-10-08 17:04 * paul_boddie ends up learning useless things about USB again, this time for AVR...
2013-10-08 17:05 <larsc> so you are in control of the AVR code?
2013-10-08 17:06 <paul_boddie> Yes. I have been playing with it, even removing the CDC stuff and trying to make it behave like a vanilla serial device (using usbserial instead).
2013-10-08 17:07 <paul_boddie> Is there anything special I have to do when using these /dev/ttyACM* or /dev/ttyUSB* things?
2013-10-08 17:07 <larsc> no
2013-10-08 17:08 <paul_boddie> With the ACM stuff I've seen stty being used, which is a real blast from the past.
2013-10-08 17:08 <larsc> I actually had a problem with a cypress uart chip and the ACM driver
2013-10-08 17:08 <larsc> the device would show up
2013-10-08 17:08 <larsc> but never receive anything
2013-10-08 17:08 <larsc> maybe the same issue
2013-10-08 17:08 <larsc> cypress solved it with an update to their chip
2013-10-08 17:09 <larsc> with an firmware update
2013-10-08 17:09 <paul_boddie> There are a few things that people seem to have problems with, but they aren't showstoppers: the "not a modem" complaint from the driver, and mtp-probe wanting to look at the device.
2013-10-08 17:10 <paul_boddie> Neither of those should cause a problem, and you can fix them by (1) changing the endpoint descriptor, and (2) editing libmtp's udev rules.
2013-10-08 17:11 <paul_boddie> People also seem to have problems with modem-manager - it wants anything that declares itself as CDC ACM - but that's not an issue here: the advantage of using Debian instead of Ubuntu. ;-)
2013-10-08 17:12 <paul_boddie> Solving the issue with a firmware update is unfortunately my responsibility here.
2013-10-08 17:12 <larsc> maybe give cypress a call ;)
2013-10-08 17:13 <paul_boddie> They'd be only too happy to help, I'm sure. :-)
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2013-10-08 21:29 <apelete> Hi there
2013-10-08 21:31 <apelete> larsc mth: I've been making some progress, the probe function seems to register the glue layer now -> http://paste.debian.net/53739/
2013-10-08 21:33 <apelete> I added a couple of lines to the board file and platform.h to fix the probe -> http://seketeli.fr/git/~apelete/qi-kernel.git/commit/?h=jz4740-udc&id=e7519cf2143a5f1dd525230d2b3cc03e111848d7
2013-10-08 21:34 <apelete> I don't know yet why I still get the pagealloc corruption with all the aaaa during boot though
2013-10-08 21:36 <apelete> larsc mth: adn I think I need some help to fix these:
2013-10-08 21:36 <apelete> [    1.230000] musb-hdrc musb-hdrc.0.auto: musb_init_controller failed with status -517
2013-10-08 21:36 <apelete> [    1.220000] unable to find transceiver of type USB2 PHY
2013-10-08 21:36 <apelete> [    1.240000] platform musb-hdrc.0.auto: Driver musb-hdrc requests probe deferral
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2013-10-08 21:40 <apelete> the errors above seem to be related to the way musb-hdrc works with the glue layer to "register/create" the device in usbcore, and I don't know much about that
2013-10-08 21:41 <apelete> larsc mth: I would appreciate some help if/when you have time :-)
2013-10-08 21:57 <mth> on the jz4770 the "nop" transceiver is used
2013-10-08 21:57 <mth> I don't know exactly how that gets selected though
2013-10-08 21:58 <mth> CONFIG_NOP_USB_XCEIV=y
2013-10-08 21:59 <mth> I think I saw the nop transceiver in your platform configuration, but is the driver itself also enabled in the kernel config?
2013-10-08 22:20 <apelete> mth: I copied the nop transceiver from the jz4770 code, but I dont know its purpose to tell the truth
2013-10-08 22:21 <apelete> mth: what is the purpose of the "nop" transceiver, and how is used by the musb driver ?
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2013-10-08 22:26 <mth> I think it does nothing (nop = no operation), but it is a transceiver, so if the code must have a transceiver then it satisfies that requirement
2013-10-08 22:26 <mth> "unable to find transceiver of type USB2 PHY" suggests that a transceiver is mandatory
2013-10-08 22:28 <apelete> mth: ok, I see. do you exactly what a USB transceiver is supposed to do in the general case ?
2013-10-08 22:28 <apelete> just asking for my general culture :-)
2013-10-08 22:29 <apelete> s/exactly/know/
2013-10-08 22:31 <mth> I think it's responsible for putting the actual signals and power on the USB connector
2013-10-08 22:32 <mth> it controls the part that is closest to the wires
2013-10-08 22:33 <mth> for the jz4770 we should probably implement a transceiver; currently there the glue code controls the signal levels and power
2013-10-08 22:34 <mth> afaik the jz4740 doesn't have software control over that
2013-10-08 22:36 <apelete> so I won't ever need a transceiver in jz4740 other than the nop transceiver ?
2013-10-08 22:40 <apelete> <mth> for the jz4770 we should probably implement a transceiver; currently there the glue code controls the signal levels and power
2013-10-08 22:40 <apelete> so that's why there are functions like jz_musb_init_regs() and jz_musb_set_vbus() in the jz4770 code I guess...
2013-10-08 22:41 <mth> set_vbus is only needed for host mode, which the 4740 doesn't support
2013-10-08 22:43 <apelete> in fact I'm wondering how the jz4740 can do without a transceiver (since I'm going to use "nop" transceiver) AND without such functions that handle "actual signals and power on the USB connector"
2013-10-08 22:43 <mth> the register flags that the 4770 glue code sets for transceiver-like functionality simply don't exist on the 4740
2013-10-08 22:44 <mth> there is a lot less to configure on the 4740
2013-10-08 22:46 <apelete> ok. I still don't get the whole picture but I'll see how it turns out in the code anyway, then we'll talk again I guess :-)
2013-10-08 22:46 <apelete> mth: thanks a lot for helping
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