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2013-10-05 12:59 qwebirc52178 is now known as rjeffries
2013-10-05 13:02 <rjeffries> anelok note #1 wondering what size (diameter) "split ring" will be a nice fit when attaching a lanyard? Something to check on first case proto. one does not want a tight fit IMO.
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2013-10-05 13:05 <rjeffries> anelok note #2 (future) Bluetooth keyboards or every imaginable size are easily available. a clever accessory for anelok might be a gadget that speaks bluetooth to/from BT keyboard, speaks 802.15.4 to anelok. see #3
2013-10-05 13:10 <rjeffries> anelok note #3 anelok click whiel will be ok, but when I need to initially enter my laundry list of password (etc) content, it would be VERY nice to use a real keyboard. with 802.15.4 / BT "man in the middle" gadget when I have lots of data entry (at home, typically) it will be faster and more pleasant and would go a lot faster. Think credit card numbers, the phone number of your mistress(es?), stuff like that. LOL
2013-10-05 13:14 <rjeffries> s/whiel/wheel
2013-10-05 13:14 <wpwrak> fir the lanyard, i'd think more of just making a loop with the thread. not putting anything solid there.
2013-10-05 13:14 <rjeffries> wpwrak ok.
2013-10-05 13:15 <wpwrak> first of all, anything metallic would detune the antenna. while we don't care much about great rf performance, it may cause regulatory issues. second, the hole is perpendicular to the front/bottom surfaces, so anything sticking out of it would be inconvenient
2013-10-05 13:16 <rjeffries> that's cool. n/p
2013-10-05 13:16 <wpwrak> (BT) well, find me a BT module that's 1) affordable,. 2) can be purchased, 3) comes with proper documentation (without NDA), and i'll be all over it ;-)
2013-10-05 13:16 <wpwrak> oh, and 4) small and reasonably power-efficient
2013-10-05 13:18 <rjeffries> wpwrak not sure what "affordable" criteria is. those chips all have to be dirt cheap. so "can be purchased" is interesting. we want a merchant part. so it's really all about teh non-nda documentation I would guess
2013-10-05 13:18 <wpwrak> for bulk entry, you'll have two convenient options: 1) connect a USB keyboard, 2) do the management with an application on a trusted PC.
2013-10-05 13:18 <rjeffries> they are all small and power efficient. LOL
2013-10-05 13:18 <rjeffries> trusted PC is an oxymoron. LOL
2013-10-05 13:19 <wpwrak> well, trusted enough to see those passwords :)
2013-10-05 13:19 <rjeffries> I must have been asleep, did not recall usb keyboard can plug into anelok. sorr
2013-10-05 13:20 <rjeffries> what will usb keyboard impact be on anelok's tiny battery
2013-10-05 13:20 <rjeffries> i guess you are not worried
2013-10-05 13:20 <wpwrak> you'll need a little adapter box: http://downloads.qi-hardware.com/people/werner/pwsafe/ybox.pdf
2013-10-05 13:21 <wpwrak> that box will draw power from some other USB power source. problem delegated ;-)
2013-10-05 13:22 <wpwrak> (BT) being able to buy it means that the company that makes it will even talk to you ... some only care about customers that bring lots of cash to the table
2013-10-05 13:25 <rjeffries> idea for that USB adapter box: with a tiny extra bit of complication, it could also be used as a way get access to allow measuring power output of random USB micro B chargers. add two test points, and a switch
2013-10-05 13:27 <rjeffries> thinking about how to find BT chips one can buy... hmm... maybe places such as Seed Studio might (??) serve as a "distributor" ? or Adafruit? yada yada yada
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2013-10-05 13:32 <wpwrak> (usb measurement box) oh, sure. you can easily make all sorts of usb measurement adapters :)
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2013-10-05 13:34 <wpwrak> (adafruit etc.) this kind of place is usually expensive and they often "add value" that gets in the way. e.g., they often put perfectly good small chip on large PCBs, along with level shifters and stuff completely useless for our kind of design, then sell the result at 3x or more the cost of the actual component you want
2013-10-05 13:34 <wpwrak> but they can be useful as information sources. if they found a component they can use for such things, we may be able, too
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2013-10-05 13:41 <rjeffries> wpwrak that's pretty much what I meant re Adafruit.
2013-10-05 13:42 <wpwrak> ah, good :)
2013-10-05 13:45 <wpwrak> hmm, also got a few of the larger wheels (without nav buttons). they have a black button and a grey wheel. it looked good in the pictures, but the grey is actually some metallic, making them look incredibly cheap :(
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2013-10-05 13:56 <wpwrak> hellekin: if you're looking for idea how to turn .gob.ar money into something potentially  useful, this may be something: http://opendevicelab.com
2013-10-05 13:58 <wpwrak> hmm ... now ... first figure out how to flash the MCU or to make the PCB ... decisions, decisions ...
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2013-10-05 14:03 <paul_boddie> Thinking about lanyards, did you see this on the Pervasive Displays site...? http://wyolum.com/projects/badger/
2013-10-05 14:04 <rjeffries> does anyone know what happened with the remaining inventory of Ben Nanonote? If memory serves, there were approx. 1,200 in the warehouse when price was increased from $99 to $150.
2013-10-05 14:04 <wpwrak> paul_boddie: heh, get rid of the buttons and it's nice :)
2013-10-05 14:05 <paul_boddie> You need an extra programmer, too. What were they thinking?
2013-10-05 14:05 <wpwrak> no idea. maybe they're still there.
2013-10-05 14:05 <paul_boddie> rjeffries: It would be interesting to know. They make nice and convenient experiment platforms.
2013-10-05 14:06 <wpwrak> and it's YAA ... (Yet Another AVR)
2013-10-05 14:07 <paul_boddie> Yes, I think the AVR is being "played off stage" like an Oscar winner running over their acceptance speech time limit.
2013-10-05 14:07 <wpwrak> i remember the time when they said TV would make people stupid. the arduino does seem to have that effect nowadays ...
2013-10-05 14:07 <wpwrak> heh ;-)
2013-10-05 14:08 <paul_boddie> The problem with the AVR is that the thing is deliberately limited: you can't add RAM, but then they only give you a few kilobytes.
2013-10-05 14:08 <wpwrak> 2450 coin cell. hmm :) at least they added uSD
2013-10-05 14:08 <paul_boddie> So all the expansion boards have "extras" like microSD readers to make them usable with these limited capability CPUs.
2013-10-05 14:09 <wpwrak> yeah, memory sizes in AVR are a joke. but aren't there some that have an external bus ? not that you'd really want to use it, but ...
2013-10-05 14:10 <paul_boddie> I've no idea. It seems to me that all these companies deliberately segment their product range to get you to "trade up".
2013-10-05 14:10 <rjeffries> paul_boddie at this late date, I'm mildly interested in Ben as a password safe if someone (not me, I am not that comotent) ports Linux version of Password Safe https://www.schneier.com/passsafe.html
2013-10-05 14:12 <rjeffries> that cute badge reader would have been much better if they instead used one of the ARM Cortex M0+ chips, now available from multiple vendors.
2013-10-05 14:12 <rjeffries> note that wpwrak has great taste in tehse matters.
2013-10-05 14:12 <rjeffries> s/tehse/these/
2013-10-05 14:12 <qi-bot> rjeffries meant: "note that wpwrak has great taste in these matters."
2013-10-05 14:12 <wpwrak> just go ARM :) most are rather generously equipped compared to AVR, and there are still quite affordable models that could almost run linux (without external memory or tricky things like stacked packages)
2013-10-05 14:13 <wpwrak> thanks :)
2013-10-05 14:14 <paul_boddie> rjeffries: I'm sure someone will port it to Debian and the other distros and it'll become available conveniently.
2013-10-05 14:15 <wpwrak> there's even more fun beyond M0. e.g., the stm32 f2 and f4 series pack a lot of features and have become quite popular (a lot more than, say, freescale's kinetis). alas, they don't make them in "nice" packages smaller than 64-LQFP. you can get them in BGAs at a small size, though.
2013-10-05 14:15 <rjeffries> paul_boddie I'd assuem so. maybe before the death of the (I mean "our") sun
2013-10-05 14:15 <paul_boddie> The Ben is quite handy for experiment prototyping, I think. I don't do so much with the Arduino with the Ben and libubb.
2013-10-05 14:16 <paul_boddie> rjeffries: I'm sure people are all over it, but I'm not keeping track, unfortunately.
2013-10-05 14:16 <wpwrak> that was actually the main deal-breaker for anelok. i'd have loved to use one of these critters, because they have a lot of room to grow and have a hardware RNG.
2013-10-05 14:16 <wpwrak> but they're just too big :-(
2013-10-05 14:17 <rjeffries> re Badger: cute how they made slots for clips on a lanyard. I think that's teh deal
2013-10-05 14:19 <wpwrak> the perfect name tag would of course be double-sided, with both sides showing identical content. it's virtually impossible to prevent those things from flipping. strangely enough, almost everyone makes them only single-sided
2013-10-05 14:19 <paul_boddie> ...with the Ben and libubb available. I've even been playing with the screen to show me what it's doing, even though I'm developing on a PC.
2013-10-05 14:20 <paul_boddie> Yes, the Badger is all about the lanyard holes. Amazing how the simplest things make all the difference. ;-)
2013-10-05 14:20 <rjeffries> why I need a hardware password safe: managing passwords is a total nightmare. I experimented with a little black book. being not totally crazy, what it held were reminders, not full passwords, rather cryptic and incomplete and in most cases did not explictly name the service. plus no personal identity of who I am
2013-10-05 14:20 <rjeffries> you know what happened. or can guess.
2013-10-05 14:21 <wpwrak> you lost it, someone found it, and your next bank statement showed a lot of atm withdrawals for that day ?
2013-10-05 14:21 <rjeffries> wpwrak great idea. but I think when teh lanyard is attached at corners, flipping would be much less likely
2013-10-05 14:21 <paul_boddie> Of course, the board I have would be almost as good with its standard mounting holes, provided one desoldered the bulky connector on the back and used the smaller one for updates.
2013-10-05 14:21 <rjeffries> wpwrak, no, Ilost it. end of story.
2013-10-05 14:22 <wpwrak> (flipping) maybe the weight could help to stabilize it in this case. alas, the paper ones don't have that, so they swirl around all the time
2013-10-05 14:22 <rjeffries> I am now in approx the same class of idiots as, well, Adobe, to name yesterdays explample of security beingcompromised
2013-10-05 14:23 <wpwrak> (just lost) you were lucky then :) and yes, the possibility to make (secure) backups should be considered a key feature
2013-10-05 14:24 <wpwrak> heh, the adobe robbery of the century. we have a lot of these lately, though :)
2013-10-05 14:24 <paul_boddie> The Voynich manuscript was possibly someone's obfuscated passwords, but we may never know.
2013-10-05 14:27 <rjeffries> wpwrak In the USA, we have an automatic, FREE backup system. The marketing name is "NSA"
2013-10-05 14:27 <wpwrak> that's a hell of a passphrase ;-)
2013-10-05 14:28 <wpwrak> yeah, with worldwide service :)
2013-10-05 14:29 <rjeffries> wpwrak your stuff is already being backed up! LOL
2013-10-05 14:31 <paul_boddie> They made this joke at EuroPython this year. That the talks were being recorded, but not only by the NSA.
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2013-10-05 14:47 <rjeffries> wolfspraul now in San Diego, CA. Cool!
2013-10-05 14:51 <wpwrak> now you can invite him for a beer :)
2013-10-05 14:51 <wpwrak> and then find out what he's been up to lately ;-)
2013-10-05 14:57 <rjeffries> He's only 7 hour drive from here, give or take.
2013-10-05 14:58 <wpwrak> in the US, that's next door :)
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2013-10-05 19:57 <pcercuei> viric: hey, you're the guy who works on SDL, right?
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2013-10-05 22:12 <wpwrak> freescale really need to find a better partner than P&E for they kinetis development tools. P&E totally don't get open source. it started with their original firmware being incompatible with linux. they fixed that since. their firmware updates require registration to download.
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2013-10-05 22:12 <wpwrak> they also have a gdb server, which is a HUGE pile of binaries.
2013-10-05 22:25 <DocScrutinizer05> haha
2013-10-05 22:26 <DocScrutinizer05> seems it's terribly hard for commercially established companies to jump on the FOSS train.
2013-10-05 22:28 <DocScrutinizer05> contract a company that has a working established toolchain for whatever based on proprietary closed stuff, and ask then to do same for FOSS and you're guaranteed to have done a grab in the toilet
2013-10-05 22:29 <DocScrutinizer05> see Nokia for example
2013-10-05 22:30 <wpwrak> yeah, transitioning between cultures seems to be difficult ;)
2013-10-05 22:37 <DocScrutinizer05> ST-E refused to place a LGPL header on their disclosed header file for the powervr stuff in their Nova processor
2013-10-05 22:38 <DocScrutinizer05> result: the thing got rejected from mainline
2013-10-05 22:38 <DocScrutinizer05> ONE idiotic standard 200 lines .h file :-/
2013-10-05 22:40 <wpwrak> well, anything powervr stinks. maybe they have some nasty contracts that would forbid them doing even that.
2013-10-05 22:48 <viric> pcercuei: sdl? no no. sure not.
2013-10-05 22:48 <viric> I only wrote a very little tank game in sdl :)
2013-10-05 22:48 <pcercuei> ok, sorry, that was probably somebody else
2013-10-05 22:49 <wpwrak> any last comments on the anelok design ? i'm about to make the first prototype board or maybe two of them
2013-10-05 23:46 <DocScrutinizer05> what is anelok?
2013-10-05 23:47 <wpwrak> man, where have you been ? :-)
2013-10-05 23:47 <wpwrak> it's a new qi-hw project. a little password safe.
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2013-10-05 23:49 <wpwrak> hmm, qi-hw servers seem to be down again. so i can't point you to the list and the generated files.
2013-10-05 23:50 <wpwrak> repo is here: https://gitorious.org/anelok/anelok
2013-10-05 23:50 <wpwrak> for now, just hardware stuff